Carolann Ouellette

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Carol Ann Willette joined Maine Hudson Trails as Executive Director in January of 2017 and she previously served as Director at the main Office of Tourism. Thanks for coming in.

Carolann Ouellette:

Thanks so much for having me. This is great.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think they were pretty sad to see you go from the main Office of Tourism from what I understand.

Carolann Ouellette:

Well, that's always nice to have a legacy like that. Certainly it was, you know, it was an amazing opportunity for me and an incredible team. Everything from the internal team to all the people in the industry across the state and even the people that we worked with under contract. Just really creative, energetic, passionate people about Maine, which made it so much fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what I guess convinced you that you should jump over to Maine Hudson Trails?

Carolann Ouellette:

That's a great question and I give a lot of the credit of the convincing to quite honestly our board chair, Bob Pugiotto, who spent quite a bit of time talking to me about Main Hudson Trails and the opportunities and the place in which it sits now is having been really open to the public for 10 years, but it was really for me a love of that kind of whole western mountains region of Maine. I've been a resident of jackman for almost 30 years with a few stints in Millinocket and the Forks and Sugarloaf, but it's it's always main holds a special place overall, but that kind of area from the New Hampshire border up across from Moosehead and out to towards Millinocket has always held a very special spot in my heart and it was a bit of a challenge to take an opportunity of really kind of taking all that I had learned from the marketing perspective, the connectivity, all the networking, all the people that I had met at my time at the Office of Tourism and really kind of put almost theory into practice. So taking sort of bits and pieces of experiences throughout my lifetime, everything from the time at Cornell at the hotel school, through working for Matt Polstein at New England Outdoor center, running my own restaurant. There were all these tidbits of experiences that really kind of covered everything that is Main Hudson Trails with some new challenges on top of it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I want to ask you about the new challenges, but first I'm interested in why you decided that you wanted to go to Cornell to the School of Hotel Administration.

Carolann Ouellette:

I was looking at a few schools. It really ended up being fortuitous in the sense that I originally wanted to follow my dad's footsteps and be a pilot. And that just wasn't working out the way I had planned. Originally in high school, I got my license but didn't go a whole lot further. And Cornell was. It had a lot of allure just from the size of the school itself. Obviously I was fortunate to be accepted to an Ivy League school, but it was one of the ones that had in my mind kind of the broader diversity across the different campuses and the different colleges within the university. And I didn't originally go for the hotel school. I wanted to do international relations and economics and discovered a lot of freshmen, fellow freshmen that were in the hotel administration program. And I just thought, wow, that is a really, really fascinating, kind of really fascinating career path to be able to follow. And what better place? Again, really fortuitous.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that's interesting. When you're a freshman in that program, what types of classes are you taking?

Carolann Ouellette:

And so I didn't. I wasn't able to transfer in until my sophomore year. And you start out with a pretty broad range of curriculum. It had everything. From early on, we were. We had sort of a food science course. We had intro to Food preparation. We had intro to marketing classes. We had psychology classes, Intro to Accounting and Finance. We covered things. I think in my first year even you had an intro to Hotel design and engineering. You had real estate courses. So you had almost three years of on and off engineering and design. You had a lot of management courses. That's why the psychology and how to manage people and how to build teams. There was an incredible amount around the food piece as well, but most of it was really a lot around the marketing hr, again, that how to manage people. Real estate, quite a bit in real estate and finance. And because it was so multidisciplinary, you really had a broad base to come out of there, recognizing sort of you could specialize, or you could go into the broader field itself, which we were required to do a number of humanities courses. And then throughout the time, summers were spent really trying to make sure that you were finding jobs inside the industry.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when you were, where did you grow up?

Carolann Ouellette:

I grew up in New Jersey.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when you were growing up, did you think, oh, I think I'd like to go into this field, or did you think, I'm going to be a pilot like my dad?

Carolann Ouellette:

No, I pretty much figured I would try and fly like my dad. I wanted to travel. I knew I wanted to somehow be engaged in travel, tourism, something like that, the international relations sort of economics piece. I felt coming out of high school was a way to open up the opportunity to travel. So that has always been sort of my first love. And I really did not anticipate. I didn't consider myself a people person necessarily. So the whole concept of hotel administration, hospitality and all of that seemed a little bit outside of who I was as an individual. But again, it just. It was one of those pathways that in so many respects just hit so many passion points for me. So it was just one of those places and times where the fact that I ended up at Cornell and that was the home of the School of Hotel Administration was just a remarkable opportunity.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it's such an interesting contrast to say I'm not a people person and then do the work that you do. All the things that you just described, they require, like, so much time with people.

Carolann Ouellette:

They do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So have you developed into a people person or you've just decided, you know what? I probably always was a people person, just not necessarily, like a super extrovert.

Carolann Ouellette:

And I think that describes it really quite well. I have grown in so many different ways over the course of time, primarily because of the different experiences professionally that I've had through my lifetime. And really, it's interesting, even when I graduated from Cornell, I still wasn't necessarily a people person. My love at the point of graduation was really back of the house on the food and beverage side of things. And, you know, I followed that a little bit, but not until much later when I had my own restaurant. But it still was something I gravitated more to sort of behind the scenes than I did out front. The juxtaposition really came when I ended up at the Office of Tourism, and that primarily started as behind the scenes, in essence, hiring. I was hired as a deputy director, really to support all the activities of the office and the director herself. So when the director position was offered to me, obviously it was something I was not going to turn down, but it really stepped up kind of my ability to interact with people on a regular basis, be out in front of people and really kind of change that dynamic. I think basically I've been good with networking over my years of where I've been and what I've done and a lot of what I had done, sort of. I pushed myself to be in that landscape so that I'd see opportunity and have new projects ahead. And just one thing kind of led to another. So, yeah, I certainly have had a chance to grow with each position that I've held. And that's been so rewarding. From a lifestyle perspective,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

how did you go from being. Well, I don't know where you lived in New Jersey. I know there's some wilderness in New Jersey, but not a ton. But to somebody who really loves Jackman and Millinocket and western Maine and really not as populated an area as where

Carolann Ouellette:

you came from, that's certainly true. And it's interesting. My family, I really have had the best of so many worlds because my grandparents owned a business in New York City. So we spent a lot of time as children, the special events, birthdays, everything else, going to theater, doing a lot of fun, museum hopping all the way around, the cultural experience of New York City and what it has to offer. We did live sort of towards the western northwestern side of New Jersey, so out towards the Delaware Water Gap, and spent a lot of time in the outdoors as children. My grandparents had kind of a weekend, as it turned out to be a retirement place that was 60 plus acres, a tree farm. I remember growing up with Audubon and Nature Conservancy magazines across the coffee tables. And so it was really kind of a love of the outdoors. They originally went with friends from New York to a place in jackman in the 50s called Addyen Lake Lodge. My mother then took us as children and that was the first place really that I ended up working because I loved the whole concept of being on an island and a lake. Very remote, quite pampered, I would say, from the style of service and guest experience, but really just being able to escape. And I think that goes. That's a little bit of that counter. Yes, I'm a people person, but I also love kind of the solitude and wonderful openness of the wilderness or the Maine woods, it's not even necessarily wilderness, but just being out in the natural landscape.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that's actually what Maine Hudson Trails kind of offers, isn't it, that you have the wilderness, but then you also offer a place where people can be, can stay and there's usually other people there. So it is that contrast, that juxtaposition.

Carolann Ouellette:

It is. And I think that's what makes main huts and trails fairly special in what that guest experience becomes. And it's different for different people, but it really is the opportunity to be in the outdoors. Push yourself a little bit if you'd like to, depending upon your skill level, but recognizing that you've got a bit of support in the sense that you know you're on marked trails, you're getting a backcountry experience without necessarily having to worry too much about where you're headed and what you're doing. Because at the end of the day you're headed for one of the huts. And huts we've often, you know, internally it's a bit of a misnomer, you know, more of a wilderness lodge. And when you get to the lodge you can either find your own personal space or there's just an incredible sense of camaraderie when you're inside where other people are joining you. You know, it's a family style meal service. You're getting to know the hut staff that live there and there's a lot of personal interaction. Often we hear stories of families that have met at the huts and continue then to either return as a trip the special place that they met and or even spend time together in their regular lives outside of Maine Hudson trails. So it is very much a time to really kind of be with yourself, disconnect, yet at the same time spend time with new friends, family and loved ones.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

There's been a lot of growth over the last several years with main Hudson trails, from what I understand there has.

Carolann Ouellette:

It's interesting, this year in, if I'm not mistaken, about two weeks will be the 10th anniversary of the opening of the first hut, which was the Poplar Stream hut. And the first three were built fairly quickly, one right after the other. So Poplar Stream, then Flagstaff Hut, not their, not long thereafter. And then the Grand Falls hut which is out on the dead river. And then the last hut that was built was opened about four years ago. So Stratton Brook. So really it was a pretty fast track in getting those four up and the trail connectivity all laid out. And so it's really been about building the visitation and Also building on the mission and the long range goals around the environmental stewardship and bringing young people into the outdoors and getting them to understand conservation and how important all that is to the landscape. So right now we're 10 years in, what's next? And that was really one of the exciting parts about the attractiveness of the opportunity really is being able to play a role in where it goes from here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, that's a very different role than the beginning of an organization. In the beginning it's kind of entrepreneurial, it's hit the ground running. Let's see, we can, I guess it's a younger organization and 10 years in it's a more mature organization. So it's almost as if it's two different things that you're dealing with.

Carolann Ouellette:

That's really interesting. It is different in the sense of, yeah, everything's kind of go, go, go, you know, modeling it out, figuring out what's going to work, particularly as I'm learning because this, the nonprofit world is new to me. So that, hence one of the challenges. That's something I have not done in my past. You know, working with funders, figuring out how this is all going to play out. You know, I think of Dave Herring and I had met many of the founding, the founder and some of the founding board members and Dave Herring, when he was the first executive director. So I started the Office of Tourism about the same time they opened Poplar hut. But at 10 years there's interesting, I've learned there's sort of life cycles of nonprofits. So 10 years can almost be viewed as, yes, we have some maturity, we've got brand recognition, people, there is a continuation of those that have been so supportive of us through that whole time. And then there's sort of the next generation and, and not next generation necessarily in people, but sort of next iteration of the model. And how do we, you know, is the original model, there's conversations we have at different levels. Is the original model of a linear Hudson Trail system 10 years later, is that still the model? So, you know, looking at connectivity, communities, what else is across the landscape? What's changed in the 10 years from the time that we opened our doors at Poplar? And even the concept goes back so much further than that. So Larry Warren's initial vision, you know, building the support to even bring it to reality. So yes, more entrepreneurial probably in its beginnings at the inception, but still now at a point of really having an opportunity to move it into the next generation.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what are some of the challenges?

Carolann Ouellette:

Some of the challenges personally for me is just understanding how the nonprofit world works versus, I mean, I've done for profit, I've done public service and the nonprofit piece. I really, I think, as I learn how it all plays together is. It's sometimes it's just different terminology than the for profit world. You've, you know, you have so many of the donors and funders and supporters. I suppose you could look at it in some respects as investors, but it's certainly very different expectation at the end. So it's. It's meeting a whole new network of people, really. The people that I had had some interaction with just at the Office of Tourism, recognizing that we do have nonprofits inside the state of Maine that are also providing guest experiences. So there was some crossover, but really not as much knowledge as I thought I might have moving into it. I had the guest experience piece and the travel and tourism piece and the marketing pieces in place, but really learning, you know, who. How do you. The process of having members, the process of working regularly with all the different people who have made commitments and are personally really invested in the organization and the foundations that support us. So it's a really broad network of people that help make a nonprofit run. And so that's. That's been a wonderful learning curve for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I remember that Dave Herring was probably one of our early guests. Oh, long time ago. And now I believe he's at Wolf Neck. Yes, he's doing good work over there.

Carolann Ouellette:

Amazing. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And he was young and enthusiastic, and you could just see him, like, out, I don't know, on the trails. And I think he had a small child at that time.

Carolann Ouellette:

He did, yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You know, he just, like, embodied this wilderness, this vision of wilderness. You have your own version of that. You, in addition to being the executive director, you're also a very outdoorsy person. Like, this is a place that you love to be.

Carolann Ouellette:

And I think that was one of the other things that attracted me to the position is, you know, at the Office of Tourism, it's funny, there have been different times. The Office of Tourism was an opportunity to learn the broad landscape. I mean, I got to go pretty much to almost every place in Maine. I got to meet a really an incredible breadth of individuals that are providing guest experiences across the landscape. And on top of that, it actually enabled me to learn more at the national level. So it provided me with the opportunity. We become part of the National Council of State Tourism Directors. So you're learning from colleagues across all 50 states. We're part of the US Travel association so learning at the national scale, what's driving travel and tourism, what is important from a policy perspective along with what's really important from a destination marketing perspective, what's trending and. But I've always loved to be in the outdoors and a lot of that started early, as we mentioned, but it really came into play. The Addy and Lake Lodge piece, certainly just kind of wandering and exploring on my own. But working for Matt Polstein at New England Outdoor center and he's in many ways has been such a mentor, but recognizing that there's business that can be done as part of a passion related to the outdoors and outdoor recreation and providing a truly unique guest experience in a place where people may not have considered visiting at other times. I mean, the fascination about the Maine woods for me is the balance of the working forest landscape, the, the traditions. When you think of Fly Rod Crosby, the registered Maine guide, you know, sort of those traditional sports that came from afar really into the north Maine woods, guided through all kinds of different experiences and you know, to be able to kind of carry on that tradition, yet do it as the trends evolve and guest experiences and expectations evolve and continue to play that out is really, really a fascinating component.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

From what I understand, you can take advantage of Maine Hudson trails really any time of the year. So even in the deepest, coldest, darkest part of winter, you actually encourage people to go out there and, and participate.

Carolann Ouellette:

We do. It's about embracing winter. That's a big piece. And honestly, Main Hudson Trails, if I'm not mistaken, really started more as a backcountry winter experience. So the idea was to develop this trail network that provided for a cross country ski, really, I think initially more or less a cross country ski experience from hut to hut, based on many of the European models as you see them across the landscape. And it's interesting how it evolved in recognizing sort of the growth in outdoor recreation overall, really people's move to healthier lifestyles and using the outdoors as a way to really live better, I think in many respects. And the recognition also was to be a sustainable organization or work towards that at some point in time, doing just three months a year where you've got some pretty remarkable structures out there and people who really want to work and be part of that wasn't going to, to be necessarily as viable as if you became year round and they started as cross country skiing. But as I back up and think about the mission, the original mission and it still holds true today, is really to be a year round outdoor recreation resource of national Significance. So it always was intended to be year round, but it started with the winter piece first. Over the years, considerable investment has been placed in into the sustainability of the trails themselves. Winter it's great, you're on snow, so you're not impacting the landscape as much as when you start hiking and biking and doing other things through the trail network. So the investment has been really about build out, but also surface areas and drainage and making sure that that trail system is really very solid for the long term.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It seems as though you would need to continue to have conversations with multiple different players in this. I mean we have in the winter we have snowmobilers, you have cross country skiers. The fat tire bikers are out pretty much all year round. I mean, and everybody's got a slightly different take on what it means to have a nice trail.

Carolann Ouellette:

I think that's what probably true. I mean for us we're focused on the people powered recreation. We have certainly our trails manager, Savannah Steele, and the trails manager ahead of her, Jason Cook, spent time really working with all the user groups. Even where we intersect with the snowmobile trails or the ATV trails. Just understanding that we're all playing across the same kind of area, but the different user groups, it's interesting. I think it's more about the passion and being in the outdoors and following the pursuit that you love best, but recognizing that we're kind of all in it together and we just want to be out there having fun. And so we see multiple users across the system. Particularly as you mentioned, in non winter and even now in winter, the fat tire piece has just grown dramatically and a lot of investment has been made not just by us, but also by the town of Carabassett Valley, the Carabasset region, New England Mountain Biking Association Club Sugarloaf. We're all in a group together called Carabasit Valley Trails, which is pooling resources to expand the mountain biking system. So looking again at that summer, primarily because the area has been known back to winter, the area has been known as a winter destination. So how do you become more year round as a region as well? So yeah, it's just, it's kind of fun to see when you're out there, you'll have a family that's snowshoeing, you've got some cross country skiers coming by. You know, we lay track in the winter. The other day we had 20 fat bikers coming through the system from Stratton Brook to Poplar. And so it actually, you know, when you get to the hut, you've got all these different people interacting that have come to the hut by different modes of people parrot activity. But they just love being in the outdoors.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been doing this for a little more than a year now.

Carolann Ouellette:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Hopefully you'll be doing it for many years to come. But what are you looking forward to the most in this year?

Carolann Ouellette:

In this year? That's a good question. It's funny, the first year has been so much of a learning absorption period. I think if anything for me personally, I'm looking forward to actually kind of moving into the what's next phase rather than just learning and. And I'll always be learning. So I should take that back. You know, for me I'd like to a personal thing at training that I told the hut staff that we do a three to four day training with new hut staff each season. And one of the things was that I definitely wanted to spend more time with them out on the trails and in the huts. So again, less time kind of out there figuring out who all the players are and how I need to interact with a bunch of, with a lot of new different people, but also being able to actually participate in the activities that are so much a part of who we are. But you know, the other piece for me is getting to know those that have been such strong supporters of the organizations throughout its 10 years plus at this point. So I still have a lot of introductions and people to meet and stories to hear and stories to tell. So the next year will really be more about that than anything. And I was able to do some of that in the first year with so much shepherding from our board and other people that are very, very active in the organization. But then there's so many people still that I haven't met that have been very engaged over 10 plus years that are either regular guests or regular members or you know, fairly, fairly sizable supporters. So that's going to be really important to me and really kind of starting to lay out what the next steps are.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I've been speaking with Carol Ann Willette, who joined Maine Hudson Trails as Executive Director in January of 2017 and previously served as the Director of Maine Office of Tourism. Thank you very much for coming in and having this conversation today.

Carolann Ouellette:

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.