Dr. Robert Snyder, the Island Institute

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Dr. Robert Stick Robert Snyder is the President of the Island Institute. He is responsible for working with island and coastal leaders in Maine to identify and invest in innovative approaches to community sustainability. Nice to have you here today.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it's okay for me to call you Rob, please.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

It's my preference.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What is your doctorate in?

Dr. Robert Snyder:

It's in cultural anthropology. So that turns out to be a fairly useful degree. Despite my parents concerns. It was a what they do teach you in anthropology is how to turn people into your teachers, how to learn to listen and how to write. And I can't imagine skills that would be more important than entering the coast of Maine from away and trying to navigate your way.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what was your focus? If you were an anthropologist who has a doctorate, there must have been some area of study. Sure.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

I began actually in China with a focus on international development and the critique of international development. So it's a little bit ironic that I now run a community development organization, but that's my background. I moved from there to focus on Maine fisheries. Big shift left China, came to Maine and started to focus on the privatization of the ocean as a process that was underway here. There was a major piece of work that took place around 2010 where New England fisheries moved to a new management system where quota became the management device. The idea that you could own pounds of fish in the ocean and with a with a permit. And so I I was part of studying the creation of that program, that management system and I did that for my Ph.D. ultimately, you're from Cleveland, Ohio. That's correct.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So China and fisheries didn't necessarily enter into your early childhood years, I would guess.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

No, I've always made quality of life choices once I had the chance to make those choices. And so I lived out west after living in Cleveland for a decade. Then I moved to Toronto where I did my PhD and then after that, my wife and I decided we wanted to live somewhere where it would be great to raise our family. And I either wanted to live in the Rockies or on the ocean. And so because of her family being from New England, we chose Maine and the ocean. And that was 15 years ago.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what has it been like to go from this? I mean, Cleveland's a fairly big urban, developed part of the United States. China is obviously big, urban, developed. And now you're working in Maine and you're working with very small communities.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How has that been, like, from a mindset shift?

Dr. Robert Snyder:

It's been really difficult. It was really difficult. I mean, it took a long time for me to figure out kind of how to make sense of where I had landed in Maine. I mean, literally five or six years at least, before I started to feel like I could understand what was going on around me because of the tight knit nature of the communities and the people's reliance on each other. These were not skills I was raised with. I tended to live in places that had been the outcome of sprawl. Right. So people building rings further and further out into the countryside from Cleveland. And each generation of my family lives farther and farther from the city center. And that's just kind of the way I experienced growing up. And there was element to it, which I think you would find in many different areas of the country. And so there was the idea that I was kind of coming from anywhere in the country. So the idea that you could come from a fairly ambiguous anywhere and land in a very specific somewhere where people have an incredible attachment to place and pride of place and frankly, kind of a cautionary kind of acceptance of people was really interesting and challenging. And. And when I realized the intensity of kind of the identity that people have who are from here, it just also made me realize the way I need to kind of position myself relative to that is pretty important, particularly working in a nonprofit.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how did you position yourself? How have you been? I guess it's probably a work in progress, I would assume.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah, no, I think I'm definitely a work in progr. The. The way that I've started out and where I've kind of been for a number of years is kind of this idea of the professional outsider. Right. Because people seem pretty willing to allow you to be in place here in Maine as somebody who acknowledges their awareness. And far more so than if you show up and you try to claim any sort of origin from here. Right. So it seems it's been very, I think, in a way, safe and productive to say even I am from away. And there can be value in that. And let me try to articulate that value. And so I've spent a lot of time trying to provide value to coastal and island communities based on my very specific position as an outsider. And then kind of 15 years later, kind of continuing to navigate that, but also now with children in the schools and with. With an attachment to my community, recognizing that there are ways in which people are more willing to hear what I have to say. But there's still plenty of skepticism. And I think that's why the coast and islands are so beautiful and different, is because of that caution and concern for continuity in place. That people want to change comes hard here. And because it comes hard, it keeps these places really special. And that's just wired into the DNA of those who have been here for generations.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's interesting to hear you say this, because obviously we all know that if you. You can't be from Maine unless not only you were born in Maine, but you also have several generations back.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

That's my understanding.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

So my kids.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Kids, exactly.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Will finally be able to claim status,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

but I think potentially, yes.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Depends how they behave.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Exactly. And yet there are so many people who are coming in who are supporting island communities who are not from Maine at all, weren't born here. Maybe they have a summer connection, maybe they went to summer camp to Maine and feel a connection to Maine, but there isn't the same type of background. So I would think that that would be one of the challenges that the Island Institute is working with, is that people can contribute in really wonderful ways and be very different people from very different places, but it's still a small community.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah. I think one of the challenges is figuring out how to kind of draw attention to and celebrate the ways in which kind of people who may be globally networked and have significant resources can participate in the future of these communities. It's a huge part of the struggle that these communities are engaged in on a year to year basis. And so what I've found, what I've. My experience has been that there are very important people in each community. There are groups of people who I kind of view as bridging personalities. People who may be from the community but have gone away and returned, or people who have been summering for many generations in these communities. But they've built the trust of many different communities within any one of Maine's coastal communities. And those bridge personalities play a hugely important role, primarily a communication role, which is about helping people talk about and think about how their interests can be joined together from all the different facets of any small community. I mean, some of the communities we work in have 35 people or 45 people in 45 different points of view all the, you know, much of the time. And as a result, you know, it is, it takes a very special person to be able to navigate that, to be able to allow people to feel heard on all sides, allow people to make community wide investments in their future, whether it's in their school or some other challenge that they're trying to address.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So your background in cultural anthropology might actually be of benefit in the situation where you can observe what is going on and figure out the best way to get involved or, or step back, depending upon the needs.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah, I think one of the things that I really enjoy is helping, helping people connect with each other and helping people connect the dots. Right. So one of the things that you have when you are not of the place and, and is a bit of an opportunity that you don't have the, the, the political weight of your family history. Right. Which is significant. And so where and when that can be helpful, you know, to say, hey, here's a resource over here you might consider, or here's a person over there you might talk to. That can be a useful way to help people move. Move community issues forward. Yeah, I think, I mean, it's been very helpful for me to figure out how to navigate all of this. I feel like one of the things that you have to do when you're working in and with partnering with community leaders is understand that whatever your problem you're trying to solve, whether it's attracting and retaining families, or whether it is about dealing with the threats of storm surge, or whether it's dealing with kind of the way the lobster industry is generating wealth or creating different sorts of social issues. Right. Like every one of those challenges, often people are looking for folks with resources to bring to bear on answering that question. So if you can hear the question really well and you can actually understand the nuances of the questions that people are trying to answer in their community, then you are better prepared to bring the right resources to help them answer it,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

you know, that's such an interesting perspective on things because I know that when I'm with a patient, one on one in a situation or a patient's family, often the question that's being asked or the statement that's being made is not the real question or the real statement. So there's a teasing of teasing back to try to determine what the actual issues are.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And that requires a lot of trust. It requires a lot of relationship building and it requires, you know, both people or all the people involved be open to talking things out, to hashing through problems. And that's not something that everybody, and I'm not saying I'm perfect at it, but it's not something that everybody feels that comfortable with doing, nor are we trained to do it.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Right. No, I think that's a great observation. I mean, I think about kind of how busy people are in their daily lives and how many different hats they would wear on a given day in a community. They might be on the school board and on the select board, and they're also an EMT and they're involved and they have so many different things going on. And so when you come and want to talk about how you can be helpful, you're a burden in asking the question even. Right. And so trying to provide the space. And so that's right. To your point. This is where trust really does matter, where relationships and real intention to care and to act and not just to sit and think about other people's challenges is really important. Right. I mean, if we don't actually find a way to be responsive, we would lose the trust people finally after 34 years. Not finally, but just, you know, certainly over time, people have become much more willing to give us that time to be. To share their stories and their concerns with the expectation that something will come of it. Right. That something will happen. And that's just, I think, to me, very much fundamental to being successful in our work is that are those relationships and that trust that comes with being responsive.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The island institute, although it's 34 years old, has not had that many people who were president. You're in a fairly small lineage.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah, I'm number two.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how has that been for you to have one person who was the head for many, many years and then for you to be the second person and the first person, I believe, was one of the founders.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah, Philip was the founder. Philip Conkling was the founder of the Island Institute. And then there was a co founder, Peter Ralston, who came along shortly after. And so I worked with them for a long time before I became the president of the organization. And, you know, they taught me a lot, a lot about the difficulty of kind of navigating community politics, the challenges of building the funding base for an organization, about kind of. I mean, one of the things I really enjoyed about being mentored by both of them was their kind of consummate passion for storytelling. They were both. They both are incredible storytellers. And so there's so much heart in the way they cared about telling the stories of the coast of Maine in images and words. And that's something that I've known, I really want to hold on to, because I do think that's how you amplify people's voices. It's how you empower people to try things out and take risks by helping them tell their stories. And so they were incredible because being number two was. So far, I think I've defied the odds. Most people say you don't want to be the one that comes after the founder. You want to be the one that comes after the one who comes after the founder. But hey, I'm only four years in, so I've got a ways to go.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The Island Institute does have very beautiful publications and has had, it seems like going back to the beginning.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah, it was the first thing we ever did was the Island Journal.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I think that that's. I think when you say the importance of story is really significant, I think that can't be understated that people, unless they actually have a way of understanding what is going on in these communities, there's not. You wouldn't be able to come take it from your own life. I mean, you can relate in many ways, but it's so special and specific.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

I think so. I mean, I think it's about. Because it's about identity, right. It actually is about how we remind ourselves of who we are. It's where we talk about the struggles over who we're becoming. Right. And so the better job we do at capturing that in words and images, the more likely we are to help people navigate the day to day challenges that they deal with. So I think, you know, the Journal, which, you know is primarily something that goes to our members, you know, a number of whom are island and coastal residents, is this incredible celebration of island and coastal. Actually, it's really a celebration of island life and culture. But then the newspaper, which has a much, much broader readership that really does on a monthly basis, kind of remind us of who we are, what our values are, what we care about and what we're concerned about. And I think that's that to me, is, as an anthropologist, a major identity project. That's how we're going to continue to talk about and struggle over our future and who we're becoming.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One of the most fascinating things that I've learned working as a writer for Maine Magazine and previously as a writer for other publications, is that the idea that you can fact check something and that there is a truth that we can come to and understand is really a fallacy.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That there isn't there. You can check numbers, you can check dates and spellings, but the more important thing for people is often what they've said and how they've said it and the way they're portrayed and.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And in a small community. And as someone who writes about small communities and represents them, that must be an interesting balance for you.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a. To me, it's kind of one of the greatest responsibilities the organization has is to be very careful about that. The. Frankly, the power wrapped up in representation. So to me, we're at our best when it's actually other people speaking for themselves rather than the Island Institute speaking for. Right. I think that kind of the singular authoritative voice speaking on behalf of anybody is long done, and we're certainly coming to a close. And what we want to figure out how to do now is to kind of facilitate and curate kind of the creation, the representation of people in their own words. And that's kind of how we're moving. So rather than kind of the expression of these communities as something you move past or through in visual and words, you know, how do we actually have communities represented, you know, on their own terms for selling their own stories and where we are simply facilitating and curating so that the best quality version of that can be made available. So that's. That is a major emphasis in. In kind of how we've continued to evolve our media work. And I think things like virtual reality give you an even more intense opportunity for people to tell their own story from their own perspective in ways that. And I, you know, I think shows like this do it as well, because it is in the inflection of a voice or in a local statement or colloquialism that you actually get a real sense for where you are and where people are coming from.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What are the major issues that you are working on right now?

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Sure. Well, ultimately, we're very concerned about the economic base of the coast of Maine being so heavily reliant on the lobster fishery and tourism, primarily third quarter earnings from tourism. And so we're really trying to figure out how we can broaden the economic opportunities available to people now and in the future. And so there are a few major focus areas that have to do with that. So kind of building out from the lobster fishery, trying to. We're working with fishermen who are interested in entering into the aquaculture business. Shellfish and kelp aquaculture in particular, because of the related skill sets and infrastructure that many fishermen already have. It's fairly, I want to say there are some risk involved, but it's risk that can be understood and mitigated if people are interested in diversifying their marine income. Just kind of back to the kind of. The identity. The identity issues. Right? Like, one of the things we know is really important is, is that people care that their living requires some significant connection to the sea. And whether or not it's fishing for what's here today or what's here tomorrow, that is a huge part of the coast of Maine's identity. And so we know that as we kind of look to the future economy, we want to make sure that we retain that important connection. And then kind of in addition to that, looking to your point about whether people are here and going away and returning or coming from elsewhere, we know that, you know, that the state of Maine's broadband infrastructure on the coast is essential to diversifying economic opportunities for people. There's tremendous amount of stranded talent in communities, people who have gone away, gotten their education, and can't put it to work in the ways that they would like. And so we do see broadband as a fundamental issue for the economic future of the country coast. Certainly this is something people recognize nationally, but I think we have a unique opportunity to do something about it here. And then last thing I'll just point to is the work we're doing to help people save on energy. And we are a very high cost energy state. The coasts and islands are even more so. And so these communities have to be places where businesses will want to locate. And the cost of energy is a major disincentive. But also just the costs that we spend on home heating, what we spend in Maine to heat our homes is in particularly the highest in the nation. And so anything we can do there will help people find Maine a more attractive place to stay or to move to. So those are some of our. Those are some of our key issues. And then underneath that, you know, we are working quite a bit on workforce development related to those outcomes and also kind of leadership development in communities related to those outcomes. So, yeah, it's really about strengthening community economies. It's about workforce and leadership. And then all that media work we've talked about is really about sharing what works from place to place and helping people kind of speed up the rate at which they solve problems.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You mentioned before we came on the air that despite the fact that I think of Cleveland as being kind of landlocked and I know there's a big lake there, and as I mentioned to you, I've been there, there actually is a significant island culture.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah, I mean, so around the Great Lakes we have learned over the last six or seven years now we've been working with the office of the Great Lake Lakes, which is based in Michigan, and they became very attracted to the main islands because there are 16 island communities in the Great Lakes year round island communities that actually share many of similar challenges around affordability, around access to broadband and future economic opportunity. And so, yeah, they've been working with the Island Institute, we've been connecting them to the main Islands Coalition and to island leaders in Maine. Learn how the coast of Maine has gone about connecting island communities. And through us, we're helping a couple of different organizations in the Michigan area figure out how to replicate the Island Institute.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that seems like it would be a little bit surprising that here you are from Ohio and, and your background actually has some relevance to the work you're doing in Maine.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Yeah, I feel like I'm really more and more aware of the fact that really what we are working on are challenges that remote communities everywhere are dealing with. When I lived in the high mountain West, I saw this. We've been invited to the Outer Banks and to the Virgin Islands and to the Gulf of Alaska. And in each of these places there are island, many different kinds of island communities. Whether they are landlocked or not, there are islands all over the place. And so they're curious about the Island Institute and what can be learned from the coast of Maine's island and coastal communities. And I think as we move forward as an organization, we have to figure out what role we want to play in being the host to that type of learning. And, and I do think the coast of Maine is a. I do think there's a real opportunity and it's happening that the coast of Maine is viewed as a place where you can come to learn about community sustainability from people here who've solved really challenging problems in really practical ways. And I think, you know, it appears that the leaders we work with here are happy to tell their story.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I've been speaking with Dr. Robert Snyder who is president of the Island Institute. He is responsible for working with island and coastal leaders in Maine to identify and invest in innovative approaches to community sustainability. This has been a fascinating conversation. I think what you're doing is very interesting and I really appreciate the time that you have taken to come here today and also the work you're doing with the Island Institute.

Dr. Robert Snyder:

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.