Eat Maine # 129

Harding Lee Smith:

You have to stick to your concept. Don't try to get out of it. Yes, you want to give people what they want, but. But you also have to be true to your concept. And it can be tight on the pocketbook sometimes to do that because you know that if you just ran this special, sure, you'd be busy for a few hours, but it's not worth it. It takes everything, everybody out of their game. And I think it's really important to do that.

Joe Ricchio:

Maine's a big state, you know, there's a lot of places and I feel like I haven't really even scratched the surface. I mean, if in every town there's one place worth eating, then I've got a lot of a lot of work to do, you know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Bellaio and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 129, Eat Main, airing for the first time on Sunday, March 2, 2014. Today's guests include Harding Lee Smith, executive chef and owner of the Rooms and Boone's Fish House and Oyster Room, and Joe Riccio, food editor with Maine Magazine. Maine is a food lover's paradise. We know how to grow our food, how to prepare it, and how to savor it. It is a joy to live in a place where such a fundamental aspect of life is cherished. Today's guests understand why nourishing ourselves is so important. Chef Harding Lee Smith and Maine Magazine food editor Joe Riccio have made it their life's work to bring food to the forefront. We hope you enjoy our conversations and are inspired to eat Maine. Thank you for joining us. There are people who dedicate their lives to food and have some success in doing that. And there are several of these people here in Portland, one of whom is Harding Lee Smith, who is the owner and chef proprietor of the Rooms and now also Moon's Oyster Room, which I guess is your latest room, the fourth room. Clearly, the ability to say four rooms says a lot.

Harding Lee Smith:

The fourth room is a house.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We like to say the fourth room is a house. Right. So thanks for coming in and joining us today.

Harding Lee Smith:

You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We're talking today about food because Maine magazine every year does a food issue and it does an Eat Maine. And in fact, food is a very big part of what Maine magazine has to offer its readers. So you already knew that, though. You already knew that Mainers liked food. And you've known it for a long time because you're from Maine and you've been doing food in Maine for many years.

Harding Lee Smith:

I have been. It's a lot different now, though. They really love it now. Before, it was about sustenance and making sure you're using what was around you. We tapped trees when I was a kid and made maple syrup. We'd burn it now and again, but it was always using that natural resource that was around you. I think a lot of it comes from frugality. I think that we didn't have a lot of money. My parents were educators. And so you tried to make the best of what you could. So if you had a chicken, you were going to roast it, then make a stock out of it, make soup with it. You're gonna do everything you could do. I think that's kind of like a Goes to Italian food a little bit. They're very frugal. A lot of their recipes and things come about from using everything you can use, using the whole animal kind of thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You grew up in West Bath?

Harding Lee Smith:

West Bath, right in the water?

Joe Ricchio:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And your parents still have their house?

Harding Lee Smith:

Yeah, my mom and stepdad have the house. They renovated it a few years ago. It was a little 900 square foot sort of shelter institute style house. And it's been renovated to about a 3,000 square foot beautiful home on the water. Very happy. My mom's kept that over the years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What, what has it been like for you to have grown up in Maine and you went away for a little while to get your education and then you came back again? What, what are the contrasts? What are the things that you've noticed?

Harding Lee Smith:

I think you have to go first off, you have to leave. If you grow up here, you have to leave in order to know how great Maine is. I left when I was 18. I came back, of course, for vacation. I didn't just abandon my family altogether, but I went out to California. I went to Boston University first. So I learned a Lot about the big city there. Then I moved to California, to San Francisco, then went to Italy and Europe for a while, and then to Hawaii. And then you kind of get to that point you're gone 18 years or so and you realize that Maine's not so bad. Maine's really actually a great place. And came back to visit for an extended period and decided it was time to move back. It was really a lot had to do with the Red Sox too, by the way. I'll just mention that they don't have professional baseball in Hawaii. But you realize that it's insular and small, but it's also. People are so close to the city, so close to Boston, that there's that big city feel to it without having all the chaos that goes along with it. I think we're getting to that traffic thing a little bit that we didn't used to have. But the food scene itself, that everything comes, happens five years later in Maine, they say. And so we're getting that five years ago thing that happened in New York and Boston. We're getting it here now. And it's just fantastic. I mean, the restaurants and chefs, it's remarkable compared to when I was growing up here. There was the Village Cafe, there was to Millo's, there was not very much. You know, there was F. Parkerides, which is a great place. All these are great places, iconic. But they weren't the kind of restaurants we have today. They weren't the foodie restaurants or they weren't the, you know, big name chefs or just people who are dedicated to the craft, like you were saying before, who just live and breathe restaurants and food and the lifestyle that goes along with that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As you're saying all these names, it's causing me to have flashbacks to my own youth. I grew up also in Maine, right here in Yarmouth. And I think that a fancy restaurant visit for us was the Roma. We used to go there on Congress Street. I think it's closed several years ago, but that was the experience that was sort of the hallmark. But what we would consider the upper end food these days, it doesn't necessarily have to be fancy surroundings. In fact, the focus really is more around the food.

Harding Lee Smith:

Everything now seems to be good. It's like in New York. I was just there a few weeks ago, a week ago actually, and everything is good. Your pizza place on the corner is good because there's so much you have to be. They demand it. And I think that's what's happened here. It's the same thing. Some good Restaurants came, people expected, they raised the bar, so to speak, and people expected them to be like that. And the ones that didn't raise the bar themselves or come up to that bar, they fell away and other ones replaced them that are, that are maintaining that, that quality. And, and you don't have to have the beautiful fancy surroundings with the, you know, the right fork at the right time and all that sort of thing. You want to have a nice warm surrounding certainly and something that's been cared for. But it really is about the food, really is. And it's main restaurants you don't see. Places that don't survive are places that seem like they're hotel restaurants or you know, that have that sort of odd look. They have to be main. You look at what Hugo's did with their renovation. That's a main restaurant. Brick and everything made right there. They sourced the wood from the bottom of the lake and all that. It's just beautiful the way that is.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it isn't. And it isn't that there aren't beautiful settings. I mean if you go to 4th street and it's beautiful in its own way, gorgeous. It's just not the classical like white tablecloth, formal setting. Although we do have those in Maine as well.

Harding Lee Smith:

We have a few. We have the White Barn Inn down there. I'm having a hard time thinking of one off the top of my head. Arrows was one. Arrows is now closed. Primo has white tablecloths, but their food is very much farmer to table kind of, you know, rustic kind of food. I can't think of any that are really fancy. We were just down in Boston, excuse me, in New York and we went to two super high end manrea and I can't think of the other one off the top. Oh, DB Bistro. And that's ultra white tablecloth, crumbing the table and everything. So different than it is here. You know, maybe in five years that'll come here too.

Joe Ricchio:

Who knows?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Maybe. I think the nice thing about Maine and restaurants here in Maine is that there is something for every person. And in fact, this is kind of the thing that I've noticed about the rooms, the front room, the grill room, the corner room and now Boones is that there's something for everyone. They're all slightly different in their own unique way.

Harding Lee Smith:

We tried to fill a niche. Like when I opened the Front Room, it wasn't about, you know, I want to open a comfort food spot necessarily or I want to open a steakhouse. That was the space became available. We thought it was a great space. It was in the neighborhood. I lived around the corner. I walked by it all the time. And that's what spoke to me from that space was a comfort food neighborhood spot where you can grab a pint and have a pork chop and know it's going to be good, not break the bank, as opposed to saying, well, I want to watch a game. Where am I going to? I have to go. I have wings. And so. And so. Which is all great, too. But at that time in Portland, there wasn't that comfort food neighborhood kind of spot. And it really fit that niche. And I think that's the thing of it. I tried to fill it with the steakhouse, too. At that time, there was no steakhouse in Portland to speak of. There might have been a place that served some meat and so forth, but we needed that urban kind of feel where traditional sides and nice cuts of steak but cared well, naturally raised beef was very important to us. Cooking over the wood fire was huge. It was really important. What each space says it is. I think the corner room with the windows, it just says Osteria. It says, have some nosh, have a glass of wine, have a carafe of wine and some salami and some cheese. You know, if you want to go deeper into it and have some pasta, sure. But it's that kind of place near the theater. Go grab a quick bite. Great for lunch. You know, that's kind of what we try to do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And Boone's was an institution for many, many years. So you're doing something even slightly different with Boone's than from the other restaurants that you opened.

Harding Lee Smith:

Definitely much different than the other ones that we opened. Once again, it spoke to what was there. Did I bandy around some different ideas of what I could call it, what I could do there? Sure. But it really seemed, first of all, the sign was still there, and you can still use the sign. You couldn't put that kind of sign up ever again, that kind of neon, beautiful arrow pointing to the water kind of sign. And it became available through much negotiations and much hemming and hawing, because knowing that the great expense that it was going to be to renovate it, because it had really fallen on hard times, I guess, in the 80s and 90s. It sort of went way downhill. It was the iconic place since 1898, for years and years and years, but it definitely had a sinking, shall you say? So we knew we were going to have to take it board by board and put it back together again. And we took that opportunity to do it much differently than it was much differently than we had before. But trying to get that feel of it's old we used all the old timbers are there. The 120, 130 year old timbers are still there. When we replaced the hardwood with what we thought would have been there back in the day, we recovered the hardwood on the second floor, the old Douglas fir. So it's all original. And we tried to make it also kind of like a boat. Like it's your different parts of it at different levels and it's all trimmed with wood as if you were on some beautiful liner or old vessel with teak lined everything and just. It really worked out well, I think. And plus we took advantage of the decks. That was the big thing being down there.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. I was actually on the deck at Boone's very early on when it had first reopened and you're right on the water. And in fact we saw some people we knew. It felt very comfortable, it felt very familiar. And at the same time new menu. Very interesting.

Harding Lee Smith:

I apologize now for any mistakes we might have made. It was definitely a crazy time for us. We were very, very, very busy right out of the gate. I mean, so busy. You never would have expected how busy we would have been. You know, 8 to 900 covers a day kind of thing. Whereas the grill room on a really busy day will do 250. The front room will do 200 on a really busy day. So we were quadrupling what we were used to doing. We've now, since it's calmed down, we've able to, you know, really right the ship. I think we're doing a very good job down there and trying to do some of that nostalgia food where we have some classics like seafood Newberg and Finn and Hattie and old main things like that that you don't, you don't see anymore. Or if you do, they are just gluey, gross, flavorless frozen seafood things. We're trying to really do the right thing by and make it into something that is an iconic restaurant again. The kind of restaurant that if you, if you have friends that come to Maine or you come to Maine on vacation or Portland per se, and you've missed it and you missed something. You didn't go. You missed something because it's really that main experience.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You also have a raw bar.

Harding Lee Smith:

We do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Which is. There aren't that many of those in Portland at this point.

Harding Lee Smith:

There's only, there's only three really. I mean there's J's which is, you know, an institution in its own right. And there's Eventide, which is becoming an institution in its own right. It's a fabulous place, fantastic place. And then there's us. I think that's really pretty much it. That does full on many varieties of oysters. We have upwards of 10 to 12 varieties of oysters. Several different raw things as well on the menu. Some other real interesting things as well there. But the second floor of the restaurant is that. Is that oyster bar. And we've discovered so many varieties from Maine itself. We try to keep it. I mean, for us, we get some in from out of state, like Alaska or Washington state or even New Brunswick, just so we can have some fun and, you know, taste the different ones. But we try really hard to have them all from Maine. And we have 12, 13 varieties right

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

now that are from Maine and that is pretty neat. And oysters, you know, they are such a delicacy. And at the same time, it's nice to know that they're. That they're local and that Maine's producing this very high quality food. And it used to be lobsters and still is to some extent. But, you know, I think to know that it's this treasure that we have access to.

Harding Lee Smith:

I think it's kind of started as like a little cottage industry people. I have some people that come and sit at the dining bar sometimes and talk to me about the fact their daughter just started an oyster farm, you know, two or three years ago. Would you like to try some? Like, absolutely, I'd like to try some. And it's. It's difficult to do, but it's. I think it's something that people found that they can do without and live a kind of cool lifestyle. You know, they can have their oyster bed without. And you don't necessarily go to work at. You know, they can sit there on their own, sort of be by themselves. It's only at certain times when you have to really work hard and get them, you know. But it was interesting, I found out, I didn't know this before, is that all the oysters are the same around the world, except for the wild ones from the European variety. The rest are American oyster. And they change by where they're being grown or being harvested. Like the ones from Basket island right outside of Falmouth here are different tasting than the ones from Booth Bay Harbor. But it's really the same variety of oyster. They all start with the same seed. It's very interesting. I didn't realize that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I hadn't realized that either.

Harding Lee Smith:

It changes Our coast is so broken up on that rocky trailing edge coast. Some you can go way up into a river in the Saka river in the brackish water and have a completely different real creamy style oyster, as opposed to the cold waters of Booth Bay harbor, where it's coming in right off the ocean, as being really crisp and clean.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You know, it's interesting, which is kind of similar to your restaurants, and you've placed them in very distinct places which are kind of picking up the flavors of their neighborhoods. And it really also reminded me, you know, the front room is up on Munjoy Hill and Munjoy Hill, I was a resident there back a few years. It wasn't always the nicest place to live. And there are definitely still some pockets that are challenging. But there's been a revival of that. When I was growing up in Yarmouth, the old port was troublesome for a while. It was a lot of crime, a lot of bar fighting. That's experienced a renaissance. And now you're on the waterfront and the waterfront is the same thing. That at some point something has shifted and something is new again.

Harding Lee Smith:

There's a huge renaissance down there. A lot of new high end furniture stores. There's a Edgar Allen. I think it's Edgar Allen. I think that's how you say it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Is it Ethan Allen?

Harding Lee Smith:

Ethan Allen. That's the one. That's the writer guy. Ethan Allen has opened right across from the Commercial Street Pub. It's like very peculiar how this renaissance is going on with the Old Port and Commercial street and right across from me from Boone's, that whole wharf, that kind of a dilapidated Three Sons Lobster. They had to leave a short time ago or about a year ago, year and a half ago, has been purchased and being completely renovated. They've replaced all the piles underneath. They're tearing the building down, putting up beautiful buildings. Going to be more restaurants down there. So it's coming in again. You know, it's really, really fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Here on the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast, we've long recognized the link between health and wealth. Here to speak more on the topic is Tom Shepard of Shepherd Financial.

Harding Lee Smith:

As I consider the topic of today's show, Eat Main, I thought not about food and restaurants, but more about what feeds me. What is it in my life that really nourishes my entire being? It wasn't hard to find the answer because it's my work. Helping clients realize that money is a living thing. They have a relationship with. That, like all relationships, is complex and has its ups and downs. This brings me great joy because each time a client sees the bigger picture and has that aha moment, I know that what I've helped them understand lets them live a more fully connected life. And living a good life is truly food for the soul. Be in touch if you want to know more tom@shephepherdfinancialmain.com you can evolve with

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

In each of these situations, you've had to maintain a vision to convince people to support something that wasn't previously in existence. And I can imagine that that would create friction at times to be the first person that sees what something could.

Harding Lee Smith:

You have to stick to your guns. That's something that I tell all the managers, my wife, my bookkeeper, everybody is you have to stick to your concept. Don't try to get out of it. Yes, you want to give people what they want, but you also have to be true to your concept. Like at the front room. After a year and a half of doing comfort food and short ribs and so forth, did I maybe try to sort of stray a little bit towards doing a little bit higher end, fancier plating stuff just for my own growth and so forth? I did, but then I kicked myself and stopped myself from doing it. It's a comfort food place. It's a neighborhood spot. You want it to be. I used to yell across the dining room to somebody coming through the door, hello, how are you? So and so because you want the plumber and the mayor could be sitting right next to each other. You know, the plumber and Elliot Cutler could Be sitting next to each other. It's really this very interesting, interesting thing, but you have to stick to that thing. Same thing at the Grill Room. It's a steakhouse. It's a dark restaurant. It's bricky, It's. It's about smoke and blues, play for music and that sort of thing. You know, it's a martini kind of bar. Don't try to be something cutesy and so forth. We're not that. I've worked for many, many different restaurants over the course of my career and the ones that do, well seem to me to stick to their guns. You can't have an identity crisis or not know who you are or what you are. Same thing with the Corner Room. That was the thing. It's an Italian place. Did we think maybe, okay, maybe we need to Americanize a little bit and put American Chardonnay on instead of an Italian chardonnay. Yeah, they cross mind more than once, more than 10 times. But we stuck to our guns and it's been very successful. It continues to. It gains that after the course you can't be in a hurry. I think to be super successful. You're always going to be really busy right out of the gate, always. And then you're going to have quite a lull where it just evens out into regular business or low business or something. But if you stick to your guns and you let people appreciate it and the word of mouth really starts, they either come back or they stay or business continues to grow just naturally, organically, I guess you could say. A lot of it has to do with social media and stuff that you can do to keep your message out there and so forth. But sticking to your guns is hugely important. Same thing with Boones. You know, we're a fish house downstairs. We're not a steakhouse. We have meat options, obviously. We have a wonderful pepper steak and some other things on the menu for the non fish person and some vegetarian things as well. But we know we're about the finest fish we can get. We get it from right across the street or right down the road or literally right off the lobster boat. He comes and brings his lobster traps right up there and carries them into the restaurant and drops them down. I mean, that lobster was sitting in the bottom of the ocean, you know, four hours before. It's really. And that really does make a difference, by the way, in how they taste. The ones in the Hannaford case are not. The supermarket case, I should say, are not the. Are not the best ones in the world. But you Know you get that when it starts to slow down and you're over that. You know that original blush period when you're so busy, you always think, okay, how can I do this better? What do I have to need to do? What do I, what do I need? How do I need to tweak it? Or whatever. But you need to stick to that, that recipe for it. You know, you think of a cocktail bar, say like downstairs here, like the Hunt and Alpine Club. Great place. Would they be smart by bringing in Budweiser and putting draft beer of not such good beer so they can get tourists in the summertime? No, they wouldn't. It would ruin everything that they're trying to do. And I applaud people that continue to do that. You have to stick to your guns and it can be tight on the pocketbook sometimes to do that because you know that if you just ran this special or you ran some Miller Lite special and you got a bunch of 22 year olds to come into the restaurant, sure you'd be busy for a few hours. But it's not worth it. It takes everybody out of their game. And I think it's really important to do that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I also want to make sure that I thank you really for providing food. You've talked about the fact that you have a steak room and you have comfort food, you have Italian food. But as an individual who eats mostly vegetables and no red meat and no chicken and sometimes fish, it is very important for me to be able to go to a restaurant with other people that do eat those things and have food available for me to eat. So I have always been able to find things at the front room and at the grill room. And I haven't spent as much time at Boone's, but I suspect that's equally

Harding Lee Smith:

the case, probably more there than any place.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and it means a lot. I mean, I have never wanted to be the special person who asks for the special things. I just want to be a person asking for predominantly plant based menus and having it be tasty. And you actually do provide that at your restaurants. And it really, I mean, it means a lot.

Harding Lee Smith:

You don't want to be stuck ordering the green salad every time, right?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, no, that's very true. Although I will say one of my staples at lunch when I'm doing the radio show is going across the street to the grom and you guys have a couple of great salads that I rotate back and forth. And I think that this is what always to me shows the mark of a good Restaurant is a restaurant that can provide, can take whatever the food is, whether it's vegetables or whether it's oysters and make them taste great without kind of gilding the lily.

Harding Lee Smith:

Yeah, well, it's always been important for us. I mean obviously, clearly. I mean this is radio so you can't tell exactly. But I don't eat just vegetables myself. I enjoy manner of food. But I've lived with dated know friends who have their spouses are and be very good friends with some people that just don't. It's not what they enjoy. It's not that either. Not necessarily because it's moral, morally wrong or something like that, but it's because it doesn't make them feel well at the. At the front room. When we first opened, being on Munjoy Hill particularly and knowing the kind of population that lives there, it was very important for us to have vegetarian options or light options. The soup there has always been vegetarian since day one, since absolute day one, we've always had a vegetarian entree of some sort. Sometimes two and sometimes three that have ended up making part of our menu and staying on the menu even though they're not meat based. We had a vegetarian pot pie that was on the menu for two and a half years and we just took it off because we were basically tired of making it. But it was still very popular I think at the grill room. It's always an interesting thing when. Because we do have the bowl hanging over the door and it is mostly about steak. But we do have. We have some very light dishes on there as well. And we have the salads. I think you're probably talking about the Grillorum salad which is full of crunchy vegetables and it's pretty healthy. You get it light, you get it without the blue cheese and it's very light. The corner room and this talks to just the inherency of Italian food is a lot of things are vegetable based. That's probably where we do the most business with some of the local farmers. Stone Cipher Farm particularly. And we had our own farm for a little bit that was providing a lot of our vegetables and eggs for our pasta and so forth. You eat what's in season in Italy because that's just what there is. This is coming from ancient culture and when there wasn't airplanes and so forth to bring you things that weren't in season and that sort of became part of this. The way we did things there, even knowing that we had done it in the past. And it's important to do this just Evolved into being really big part of the menu. I think a lot of it had to do with our chef de cuisine, Shawn Dougherty, the original chef de cuisine there. His girlfriend, not vegetarian per se, but she won't eat anything, she won't kill. And so that limits her to a lot of things because she's not a giant woman. And so we sort of learned to do that and to make things that way. And you and I were talking before about gluten free and how that's a movement, I guess you could say, and this is not going away, the gluten free thing. And it's becoming very clear to me, and I think to a lot of chefs that it's not necessarily just a thing we used to joke about. Absolutely. Did we used to laugh when we get the gluten free comments three and four years ago, like, oh, boy, here they go again. Here they go again. What can we make that's gluten free? And you realize that it's actually a thing. Having known several people, some very close to me, who found that not eating gluten or not eating it in great quantities makes them feel much better, makes them digest better, makes them have more energy, makes them not be tired, and makes them digest better so they can then enjoy their life freely instead of living in sort of fear. So we've crafted our menu with Brian Dame, the original chef there. A lot of it to be gluten free, to have our fried food, strangely enough, is not necessarily always the most healthy thing. If it's done right, it shouldn't be unhealthy, actually, it should be very ungreasy and crispy and delicious if you fry it properly. But it's all gluten free. It's all based off of that. Our oyster room menu. We have a separate kitchen upstairs. We produce a lot of vegetarian things up there just naturally, because that's just what we're doing. You know, we make our own cashew cheese instead of. So you can. Actually some of the things are vegan. Most of the soups are vegan or vegetarian. And I don't. It's funny because you're saying how it's, you know, it's important to you and you're thankful for that. We didn't really do it for that. It's just another part of the food that we do. We didn't do it because we needed to fit some niche or something like that. It was just something that we. It just was along the course of cooking, I think.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and that's I think maybe that's what I'm thanking you for is that it didn't have to be a special thing. It was just as important as every other thing. It wasn't that vegetables were reduced to sort of a lesser place on the plate.

Harding Lee Smith:

A lot of times the vegetables is the center of the plate and the meat just sort of adorns it. We've really done that a lot of times, actually.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I think that more and more we're realizing that's probably the way that people will need to eat moving forward in this life, not only for health reasons, but also for sort of economic and social reasons.

Harding Lee Smith:

Somewhere, somewhere there's a cook snickering, knowing that I eat bacon every morning. But that's okay.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Everybody does their thing. Everybody's got their own way of eating. Well, Harding, it has been really a pleasure to spend time talking with you today and encourage people to learn more about the rooms, the front rooms, the Grill Room, and now Boone's Oyster Room, right on the waterfront. You have a website people can go to?

Harding Lee Smith:

We have several hardinglysmith.com or boonesfish house.com or any one of the restaurants is pretty much their website. You can get there somehow. It's the frontroom.com, thegrillroom.com, so forth and so on. You can find it pretty easily.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I can wholeheartedly attest to the fact that your restaurants provide delicious food, often very healthy food, And I hope that the people who are listening take the time to look into your restaurants and spend some time eating there.

Harding Lee Smith:

I hope so, too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've been speaking with Harding Smith, who is the owner of the rooms here in Portland, the Grill Room, the Front Room, the Corner Room, and now Boone's Oyster Room. Thank you for coming in today.

Harding Lee Smith:

You're welcome.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As a physician and small business owner, I rely on Marcie Booth from Booth, Maine to help me with my own business and to help me live my own life fully. Here are a few thoughts from Marcy. As you settle into this new year, I hope you take a moment to consider the health of your business and how you can make certain it continues to thrive. Now is the perfect time for a business checkup. It's a perfect time to reflect on the systems and processes you had in place last year to determine what worked and what didn't run as smoothly as it should have. Write down the specific changes you'd like to implement to tighten things up over the next month, three months, six months, or a year. Give yourself realistic tasks and goals. This Introspection and planning will go a long way toward making certain that 2014 is a year of great success. I'm Marcie Booth. Let's talk about the changes you need. Boothmaine.com

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

when you think of Portland food and the Portland food scene, you probably think of Joe Riccio. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's certainly, you're certainly a personality. And we don't have a lot of food personalities that aren't specifically chefs here in Portland. So I'm really glad that you, Joe Riccio, have come in to talk to us today about the work you're doing with Maine Magazine and as the now again food editor with Maine Magazine for our show, which is talking about food.

Joe Ricchio:

Yeah, well, I'm happy to be here. We'll talk about food all day.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Joe, I knew you from a ways back in part because we both grew up in Yarmouth.

Joe Ricchio:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you were friends with one of my brothers, I think.

Joe Ricchio:

Yep. We used to play Dungeons and Dragons together back in the day.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Back in the day. Well, you are doing something that is very unique to. I actually don't know of any other Yarmouth High School graduates currently who are doing the type of work you're doing, which is you're out there in the world. Not only are you actively involved in aspects of sort of food delivery service creation, but also evaluation, critique, and tell us how you came to be so interested in food.

Joe Ricchio:

I think it's funny because obviously just by looking at me, you can tell that I've always enjoyed eating. But I think I really got serious about it, I'd say in my mid-20s when I really started to branch out and try a lot of kind of unique things and, you know, definitely things that I didn't have any exposure to when I was growing up in Yarmouth for sure. So the more I kind of got out there, I lived in Chicago for a while in my 20s, and I started kind of, you know, experimenting with things like caviar and foie gras and offal and things like that. And then it just kind of became an obsession. On top of that, also being in the wine business, obviously, those things go hand in hand. Basically, at the end of the day, it started to feel like a great way to combine business and pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's also caused you to need to kind of take on multiple roles at once.

Joe Ricchio:

Yes, well, idle time gets me in trouble. So the busier I am, generally, the happier and more productive I am. So I figure if I can just kind of. If I can have three jobs that all kind of cross paths and sort of work with one another, then that's great for me. And I think that that's what keeps things interesting, really, is just the constantly going in different directions.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And then there's the writing.

Joe Ricchio:

Yes. So the writing, which I'm actually really excited to be back with May magazine and kind of take that in a different. In a more exciting direction, I think. I mean, we've been doing a lot of things in the past, and now I think it'd be fun to just sort of really branch it out and try some new things there. But, yeah, I mean, the writing has been. I guess I've had a lot of different phases there, whether it's, you know, my personal, like Fukoma and things like that. And then now with the magazine, and I'm starting to kind of branch out on a national level as well, which is really nice. But, yeah, once again, I mean, it's just. I think the most important thing is I do all of these things anyway, so I might as well write about them. You know, this is basically. I don't do this because it's my job. It just works out well that it is my job.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I have been struck in the past when reading the work that you've put out there, that it's all. It is all very personal to you, and it's as much of a narrative about your life as it is a narrative about food, which is different than a lot of standard food critique.

Joe Ricchio:

Yeah, that's kind of what I was going for. I wanted people to get a feeling for not so much what I'm eating. Well, obviously what I'm eating, but why I'm eating it, why I'm doing this, why I like things or choose to live in a certain way that some people tell me sometimes makes them feel exhausted after just reading it, which I'm fine with. Yeah, I just. I think that's. I guess, why I consider myself different than everybody else, because there can only be one you, you know, writing about your unique experiences and perspectives. So I think it's fun to combine the sort of travel writing and autobiographical element to it, to the food writing. You know, I think that keeps interesting for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You know, there are a lot of people out there doing blogs these days, but not everybody has the quality of writing that I've noticed that your blog has or the work that you've done for Maine Magazine. Did you have any formal training?

Joe Ricchio:

No formal training at all. I just kind of basically just started writing as I kind of like, I talk, I guess you could say, you know, and it. Obviously, as I went, you sort of just absorb. The more people kind of read your writing, or even when you've been working for a magazine, you see your writing get edited, you know, you pick up on that and absorb it, and eventually it just kind of becomes second nature. You just kind of start thinking that way. And by no means do I consider myself an amazing journalist or, you know, I. I'm sure my drafts are filled with grammatical errors, and I don't know. That's. And that's fine. I guess that's. That's why they're editors. Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think you might be selling yourself a little short because I'm pretty sure you edit your own blog posts, and I've read many of them, and you've got some skills.

Joe Ricchio:

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

There is a difference between writing for your own blog and writing for a magazine, and there is some sort of, well, collaboration that needs to take place and sometimes needing to maybe work within some boundaries.

Joe Ricchio:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Boundaries aren't something that you seem to like as much as the next person.

Joe Ricchio:

Yeah, I mean, I don't love boundaries, but at the same time, I think that, you know, without boundaries, the further I go, it kind of. It can get a little out of control. You know, I think that boundaries are a good thing for me, and I think that they force me to be. I think having to actually be a little more professional and write within boundaries is good for me as a writer. You know, I mean, everybody wants to just write whatever they feel like writing, which is what the blog is, and that's great, but, you know, it's. It's. I think you're a better writer if you can tell the same story within boundaries, you know, with a few kind of guidelines on it. You know, it doesn't. And it's more satisfying when I kind of succeed. And I write a story that I really like, and it's actually within the boundaries. And they aren't like ridiculous boundaries by any stretch of the imagination, but they're definitely, you know, like my readership, which is basically based on what I like at any given second, is completely different from, you know, May magazine is a business, you know, and this is a job. And so obviously it's important to appeal to the readership of the magazine. And hopefully I don't manage to offend too many people, is my goal.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I think that you've spoken to something that is very profound in a way, and that's, you know, boundaries are sometimes a good thing. You know, they don't have to be something that kind of traps you. Instead, they become sort of just a place within which to work and. And understanding that is something that probably came with time in your life.

Joe Ricchio:

It definitely did. It's something that I thought at first, but then every time I would fight it, kind of the next day I'd be thinking about it. I actually would write something and read it back, and I'd be like, I don't know what my problem was yesterday with this. I like this. I like. As. I think I brought back, as I said before, I like the challenge of it. And I know it's just. It's nice to have both. Both worlds. But I've really enjoyed, especially now, I think, just watching, because, I mean, I was with Maine Magazine in the very beginning, and just watching the. Just the food coverage in general just has been evolving constantly. And now I feel like after spending a year away, I feel like we're ready to kind of come back. We've all kind of collected our thoughts, and we're really ready to branch out in a lot of really exciting new directions with it. And, yeah, I have a very different perspective on it now. I have more ideas. I really want to get not so much into the kind of tit for tat, like Restaurant Review or anything like that. I want to just really get into the cooking and just the concepts and the ideas and where they came from and the people, because there are so many amazing food personalities in the state that they're just a whole story in themselves. You know, I think a lot of people will talk about the food they eat and what foods certain restaurants offer, and that's great, but I think there's a lot more to it than that, and that's where I feel like I'm at now. I'm really excited to kind of delve into that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So just before you left to go to Boston, you did a lot of work on your Food Coma series, and I'm assuming that that continues, although the web series.

Joe Ricchio:

The web series, yes. It's called. Well, I. The minute I got to Boston, actually, literally my second day there, I was selling wine there, and I was in an accountant, and a kind of a stranger came up and was like, I'm Chris. I really like your show. I've always thought I could do it better. And so that's sort of how. So now we have a new show called off the Wagon, and that's how it kind of started. And then we just, like five months later, we started filming episodes. And, yeah, I think that's also more evolved than the first show. It's just, you know, it's. It's. It's amazing how little you realize, you know, like, you know, with video, there's so much to it, and it's just such a. Constantly a work in progress. It's always something you make better, whether it's like, you know, the voiceover, like, I thought that'd be easy. But then all of a sudden you realize it's really hard not to sound incredibly awkward, you know, when you're forcing something like reading from a script, you know, so just little things like that, you know, the editing and just really trying to tell a story with the episodes, rather than just showing people drinking and eating for no apparent reason. So I hope that's one. Once again, I think that we're finally starting to achieve that with the show as well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And yet there were some interesting stories, I think, that came out of the Food coma work that you did here in Maine.

Joe Ricchio:

Oh, there's no doubt that there are interesting stories that came out of every time we filmed an episode or just, you know. And I mean, it was such an amazing. I mean, I don't regret a single thing. I mean, we. You know, he had Anthony Bourdain on the show. You know, we. We went. Drove 7 hours to spend 3 days in Aroostook county, you know, eating and drinking. I mean, it was amazing. And it really got me to. And it's. That also. It's funny how that sort of has really tied in with Maine Magazine because it's enabled me to just travel the state. I mean, I'm from Portland or I'm from Yarmouth, as we said, from Yarmouth and. Or Southern Maine. And so up until doing these shows, I'd never been north of. Really that far north of Bangor. I mean, just never really gone up there. And now I'VE got to explore so much of the state, and then I see these places and I can bring it all into the experience. And I feel like that makes me more valuable to the readership because I've just traveled more of Maine with the sole intention of eating. So that's really exciting. And that's just been. It's been nothing but helpful for me moving forward, just knowing the layout of these different towns that are kind of off the grid.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The goal of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour is to help make connections between the health of the individual and the health of the community. The goal of Ted Carter Inspired Landscapes is to deepen our appreciation for the natural world. Here to speak with us today is Ted Carter.

[Unidentified voice]:

I am always amazed at sort of the invisible hand that works side by side through life with us. I have an old Spanish bread table in the living room of my home in Buxton, and a children's book sits there with carefully pressed flowers in between the pages. And as you open the book, you see inside the yellowing jacket. To Louise Jamison, from Mrs. Cope, July 8, 1911. Last month, I went with my sister, Abby Carter. She's a prolific children's book illustrator, but we went to Mrs. Cope's seaside home in Saunderstown, Rhode Island. Of course, she's no longer alive and the place was just dormant, but we walked the grounds that my grandmother walked when she was a child. My great grandfather, my grandmother's father, designed the home for Mrs. Cope, and Granny used to spend long summer days in the fields picking flowers and pressing them into the pages of her children's book, which I now possess. As I walked through the land with my sister Abby through the grounds of the old Cope homestead, we felt as though we were guided to this very special place. Walking the fields and meadows Granny played in over a hundred years ago. At last we could see the land and the landscape my grandmother had loved as a child. I think it's important for us to remember that as we design and create our own landscapes, that we too can create powerful, magical memories for our loved ones, our friends, and all those that enter these magical spaces. So let's not forget that these places that we create form and shape our life experiences in so many ways. I'm Ted Carter, and if you'd like to contact me, I can be reached@tedcarterdesign.com

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast understands the importance of the health of the body, mind and spirit. Here to talk about the health of the body is Travis Boyer of Premier Sports, a division of Black Bear Medical

Harding Lee Smith:

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Joe Ricchio:

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Harding Lee Smith:

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Joe Ricchio:

how we do it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

i've done a lot of traveling with Maine Magazine as well for the 48 hours pieces that are written and I'm with you. I think I'm constantly surprised by the food that I the little gems, you know, the little restaurant gems that you find in different parts of the state. And I'm thinking of, I think it's called the Mill Hill in Bethel and this guy who used to be a teacher at Gould and then for the last, I don't know, three to four years has been perfecting the food that he creates and he serves on these plates that he makes as a potter himself.

Joe Ricchio:

See? Yeah, like that's the kind of thing that's really the most exciting thing to me about Maine is being someplace like Bethel and discovering something like that. You know, that's an amazing story. Like the guy is not only doing amazing food, but he's also like involved and takes pride in the actual, you know, the flatware and the place that you're eating off of. I mean that's I think that's amazing and I think it's really interesting and I think that's the main that I think more people want to know about. In addition to the obvious, you know, the Portland, which is got a lot of press but there's still a lot to say about Portland that hasn't been said. But you know Maine's a big state. You know, there's a lot of places, and I haven't. I feel like I haven't really even scratched the surface. I mean, if in every town there's one place worth eating, then I've got a lot of. A lot of work to do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You know, you also spend time with people who aren't. Who aren't from Maine, who have come to Maine, they've transplanted themselves into the state, and they become deeply ingrained in the culture and almost create their own little main culture. I'm thinking of Miyake for the restaurant. Miyake, for one.

Joe Ricchio:

Yeah, it's. Well, you can't really beat the standard of living here. And I think a lot of people. And then they're really impressed. They come here to set up shop, and then they're really impressed with how maybe savvy the dining population is, or they're just completely enamored with the landscape. And. Yeah, then they end up staying. And, I mean, in Masa's case, obviously flourishing. I mean, it's about to be a third restaurant opening up, and, you know, even involved that. There's been some trial and error, and, you know, everybody kind of finds their way here. I don't know if that answers the question you were asking or not, but it's sort of different for everybody, you know?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, does it. Does it ever occur to you that people in Maine end up wearing so many different hats that you can't necessarily say, okay, this person is a chef and a chef alone, you know, that they end up being so multifaceted in ways that maybe other cities don't allow

Joe Ricchio:

them to do a lot of stuff you want to do here. That's why limit yourself to one thing, you know, when you actually can do a lot of different things. There's just a lot to write about, you know, it is interesting, though, that people sort of are multifaceted in their profession. But I. I don't know. Like I said, for me, it's just the idle time thing. Like, I don't like idle time. And then happens to be a lot to do here. So I'm gonna do it all while I can, you know, while my body still permits me to do so. Which is where your job comes in as the wellness editor.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's true. You're the food editor, I'm the wellness editor, and hopefully we can create.

Joe Ricchio:

Somehow you wrangled that job away from me. I don't know how. I'm not sure how you did it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's right. I know, you came in couple a close second for that one.

Joe Ricchio:

I'm sorry, I really thought I had it this time. But apparently it is back to the eating.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and, you know, I think eating is a big part of wellness. And in fact, we've proposed multiple articles for Maine Magazine, and it is that fine line between, okay, so what is wellness? What is eating? And that's very blurry.

Joe Ricchio:

It's the hardest topic whenever we talk about food for the wellness issue, it's like, do we do, quote, unquote, unhealthy food? Because technically any food is unhealthy. If you have enough of it, you can technically overdo it with any food, I think. And then. Yeah. So then you're like, well, is it restorative food? Is it food that's just kind of good for you? Is it raw food? But it's a really hard thing to kind of get a definitive answer with, as far as, you know, from a wellness point of view, I guess it would almost be. You almost want to write more about, like, eating habits, you know, than actually the food you're. You're eating. Just, like, the way you view food, you know, can be a big part of it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what does the food issue have in store for us this month?

Joe Ricchio:

Well, it is actually my kind of return to Maine magazine.

Harding Lee Smith:

So

Joe Ricchio:

as far as my contribution to it, it's sort of a. It's not so much a love letter to Portland, but it's more of a entry back end as far as it sort of addresses things that I missed about Portland, a little bit of sort of getting perspective. Because it's amazing when you're. You don't really get perspective until you move away. As far as all this press that Portland has gotten, you talk to people in Boston and they sort of like, they ask where you're from, and you're like, in Portland. And they look at you like the streets are just paved with gold there. They're like, we've heard that everything you eat is the most amazing thing in the world. And it's like, wow, okay. Portland's come a long way where people in major metropolitan areas have this. They, like, look at me like I'm insane. Like, why are you here when you could be in Portland? You're in crazy person. Why would you ever move away from that? So I guess my. My piece in the. In the food issue sort of addresses that a little bit and maybe where I think some of this reputation stems from. And. But at the same time, how, you know, I'm just as excited to come back and have access to the main Italian sandwich again because they're delicious and nobody can explain why, but they're just so good.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, that's very true. I've tried to explain to people why I like the amato's Italian and why their pickles are the best that I've ever tasted and why the tomatoes seem to taste so good. But unless you're from Maine and grew up on them, I just don't know that it's something you can explore.

Joe Ricchio:

If you refer to that as an Italian sandwich at the North End in Boston, it is like you could probably be lynched for that. They're like green peppers. Excuse me. And you're like, that's it. That's it for you. But they are delicious and I love them and so does everybody else. But it's just funny. It's such a. I love, like, regional dishes like that, regional sandwiches. Everybody has, like, something that only people from a certain place really understand. And at the end of the day, is it because we just grew up eating them and it's like nostalgic and really comforting, or is it because it's actually really good? I mean, I don't know. I think that's really fun to address. But anyway, so that, you know, that's the extent of my involvement with the food issue this time around. Of course, you know, they'll offer the statewide coverage, I'm assuming.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, there's a lot of good stuff.

Joe Ricchio:

I'm a little bit late to the game here, as I just got back, but, I mean, managed to get my thing in.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But yes, I think the people who are listening probably understand that magazine deadlines are usually several months in advance. So there are a lot of great articles for the March issue, and people are going to enjoy that. And also the Eat Main guide, which is going to be coming out very soon, which offers a listing of restaurants across the state. And actually our interview, I believe our interview with Sam Hayward in a Q and A forum at the back. Nice.

Joe Ricchio:

Nice. Well, yeah, the Eat Main guy just keeps. Every year he's getting better. It's the kind of cumulative coverage throughout Maine magazine since its founding. You know, we sort of keep adding on and adding on as we explore more of the state. So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And, you know, I'm with you. Having traveled quite a bit outside of Maine, I've gone to beautiful locales that have wonderful beaches and brilliant sun and then tried to get a good meal. And I feel like I'm so spoiled.

Harding Lee Smith:

You are.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

From having lived not only in Maine but in southern Maine and actually in other parts of Maine as well. So I think it's a very interesting time to be living in Maine and to be working on the food scene.

Joe Ricchio:

Yeah, we have it really, really good here. I mean, it's. Obviously, we have great restaurants, but people also don't necessarily always acknowledge how amazing, like, our markets are. Like, you have. We have so many great, like, butcher shops, you know, fishmongers, and then there's, you know, there's like five Asian markets. For a small city, that's incredible. You can pretty much get anything you want here. If you can't get it in a restaurant, you can get the ingredients somewhere to make it yourself, which I am absolutely in love with and I missed like crazy when I was gone.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, you know, and we also have access to local foods and farmers who are growing it and increasingly in every different season of the year. And I think that Maine used to be known, I believe around this Civil War time, the Bethel area was actually known as the breadbasket and served a lot of the soldiers. So it's fascinating that we're kind of coming back around to this again and the importance of our local Maine foods is becoming increasingly known.

Joe Ricchio:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, Joe, it's a pleasure to have you. It's a pleasure in our studio today. It's a pleasure to have you acting as the food editor again for Maine Magazine.

Joe Ricchio:

It's good to be back and we

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

look forward to great things. How do people read more of the writing that you do?

Joe Ricchio:

Well, obviously through Maine Magazine. Through the main blog and the Maine Magazine. I still maintain, you know, food Coma me. And then I. Yeah, pretty much. If you. I guess if you put my name in Google, you get a pretty varied list of things if you want the whole experience. But, you know, I think in the meantime, the Maine Magazine stuff will be the one to watch, I think, for now. So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, thank you for coming in. I've been speaking with Joe Riccio, who is a fellow Yarmouth High School graduate and friend of mine.

Joe Ricchio:

Actually, I'm a Chevros graduate, but I went. I did some Yarmouth, and I'm from Yarmouth. I had to set the record straight. I can't let you know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay, so I've been speaking with Joe Riccio. He's a fellow Yarmouth native.

Joe Ricchio:

Let's Native. Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I encourage people who are listening to spend some time reading his work in Maine Magazine and through Eat Main and maybe seeing you out and about in the food scene.

Joe Ricchio:

I'll be out.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have been listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 129eat main. Our guests have included Harding Lee Smith and Joe Riccio. For more information on our guests and extended interviews, visit drlisabelisle.com also visit themainmag.com to find out more about food in Maine. The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is downloadable for free on itunes. For a preview of each week's show, sign up for our E newsletter and like our Dr. Lisa Facebook page. Follow me on Twitter and Pinterest and read my take on health and well being on the Bountiful Blog. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. Here we are privileged that they enable us to bring the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Eat Maine show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.

Harding Lee Smith:

Sam.