Emotional Intelligence, #79

Michael Chase:

Kindness is a universal language. Everybody understands it. It is love in action. Whenever you perform an act of kindness, you are essentially performing an act of love.

Sandra Fisher:

One of the most important things is if you think someone is suicidal, you have to ask the question. And it's a very difficult question to ask, but you have to ask it and you have to come right out and ask. You can't ask someone that they're thinking about hurting themselves because to someone who's suicidal, they don't think of it as hurting themselves. So you have to come right out and ask the question. Are you thinking about killing yourself or taking your life? Because a lot of times they're just waiting for somebody to ask that question.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 79, Emotional Intelligence, airing for the first time on March 17, 2013. Antoine de Saint Exupery reminds us that what is essential is invisible to the eye. Michael Chase, best selling author and founder of the Kindness center, and Sandra Fisher, suicide prevention advocate and mother, talked to us about emotional essentials on this week's show. Have you had your heart broken? Me too. I doubt that there's a human alive

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

who can claim differently.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We who choose to love are choosing to make ourselves vulnerable to heartbreak, even as we are opening ourselves to joy. The joy that comes from loving is due in part to knowing that we are connected to all others who have chosen to love. As philosopher Martin Buber wrote, the world is not comprehensible, but it is embraceable through the embracing of one of its beings. Buber described the difference between an I thou and an I it relationship. When we see another person as an it object, we are unable to recognize that person's humanity. We keep him at a distance. When we embrace that person as a thou or a you, we are better able to understand our commonality as a doctor and a human I am highly aware of my vulnerability. I hear my patients stories and from them I hear my story. I feel my heart break. Even as I feel their hearts break, I also feel their joy. Each week I share some of this joy and this heartbreak with listeners of our radio show. Sitting with one of this week's guests, a mother whose college age son committed suicide eight years ago caused me to feel intensely vulnerable. My own son is currently a college student. I love him as fiercely as any mother might. I know that by loving him, by loving anyone, I put myself at risk for loss. Yet I choose to embrace him. I choose to embrace the mother who shares her story and know her as I thou. Rather than believe that her story is unique to her and could never become my story, I choose to embrace Michael Chase of the Kindness Center. I invite you to join me in this embracing. Thank you for joining us this week. Compassion is good for health Studies have long demonstrated the impact of stress on the body. It can initiate or worsen illnesses including heart disease, depression and countless others. Often, stress is caused by changes in circumstances such as moving or divorce. It can also be created by strained relationships occurring when people of all ages don't see eye to eye. Because it isn't always possible to avoid stressful situations, we must develop appropriate coping mechanisms. By cultivating compassion, we are promoting the ultimate exercise for heart health. If you would like to explore cultivating compassion, give me a call at The Body Architect, 207-774-2196. I look forward to seeing you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I've always been a big proponent of love and compassion, which is an interesting thing to be a proponent of as a doctor in the world. It's not necessarily something you think about as being a healing modality, but I do believe that this is one of the things that we all could benefit from, whether it's being more loving and compassionate towards ourselves or towards other people. And I know that Michael J.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Chase, the man who's sitting across from

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

me in the studio today, is of the same mind.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when I read his book Am I Being Kind? And I read the following, the Pathway

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

to Happiness really is that simple.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

No pills, no therapy, no looking into

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

the mirror and repeating affirmations for a lifetime. All we need to do is be kind.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I knew that there was a kindred

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

spirit and I wanted to bring him into the studio. So thank you for being with us today.

Michael Chase:

Thank you, Dr. Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you are the founder of the

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Kindness center, best selling author of Am I Being Kind?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you have a book coming out this spring. But this wasn't how you saw your life going.

Michael Chase:

No, this was not the original path that I had chosen. For 16 years, I was a professional photographer, and it's something that I loved very much and was blessed with a lot of success from having my own photography studio. But despite having all that success and having all of the things that people said would make me happy, such as a nice home and the cars and the money and all the things that we're told, if you have this, you'll be truly happy and your life will work. Well, I had all of those things, and I was still unhappy. So this had me on a very deep path. I'd almost call it an obsession in the world of personal and spiritual development, trying to discover what is it that truly makes us happy in life. And then it was five years ago that I had that epiphany made that discovery, that kindness, at least for me, it's what eliminated my negative behavior, my negative thinking, some of my depression. It just melted it all away. And it became my method for. For finding true happiness in my life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's important for people who are listening

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

to know that you choose kindness. You have said that you lived a life of unkindness. You, as a younger child, you actually had every reason not to go down the path of kindness. Because sometimes it's easy to say, oh, I'm going to be kind if your life is so good, but your life wasn't always so good. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Michael Chase:

Yeah, I mean, that's. That's all part of the journey. And there was a time that I was in that victim mentality. And when you come from a difficult background, in my case, it was a unkind childhood. At least my father's side of the family. I have the world's most amazing mother. She's like one of my best friends in life. But my father's side of the family, a generational pattern of alcohol, a lot of violence, just vicious behavior. And that was passed on from great grandfather to my grandfather to my dad, and then to me. So I had to make a choice. You know, I had to be the one to break that pattern. And it took me. Well, you know, I was 37 years old when I first made this discovery. I'm 43 now. So, yeah, it's been a heck of a ride.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Part of the reason you needed to do this was because you had your own son, Alex, who I believe is now.

Michael Chase:

He's 22 now.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

22, I was going to say in college because this is the last I read in the book, but it sounds like he might be out of college now.

Michael Chase:

He's in his last year of college right now.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, but you had to make a decision that, you know, whatever had happened generationally was going to stop and you were going to change it. How difficult was that?

Michael Chase:

I think the big moment, the defining moment for me was in the year 2000. My father, who, you know, we had a very. In the later years, our relationship changed, but throughout most of the years, we really struggled. And I know I can look back and I can have compassion now because I can see that his behavior and any unkindness toward me, it was just built up anger, resentment toward my grandfather, the things that he had done to him. But in the year 2000, my father committed suicide. And that event was related to how my grandfather had treated him. And so I started to look at all of that and made a decision. It took me about six months after my dad's death to dig out of a very deep depression. But then I found myself at his grave site right before Christmas, and I said, I promise you, Dad, I said, this is it. It ends here. I said, I will not pass this on to my son. And somehow, some way, I'm even going to help other people. And I didn't really know what that meant. I mean, I barely graduated high school. I picked up a camera and then just went from there. And I thought that would be my life. No degree in psychology or anything like that. But just from that point on, I had a burning desire to not only fix my own life, but to help other people someday.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You talk about this in the book.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This idea that for a long time, not being a. Well, I guess it was only being a high school graduate was something that you would be down on yourself for. But then you came to a place where you said, hey, I'm only a high school graduate, and look how much I've been able to accomplish or look what I've been able to do in my life. That was an interesting turnaround and important, I think.

Michael Chase:

Yeah, you know, that's one of the things that you start to learn with this path of kindness, is to be kind to yourself and look at these things. Like, you know, I'm proud of it. I'm proud of the fact that there's a funny example, my wife, who is just the most amazing, supportive woman. I could do a whole radio show about her, how great she is. And I was on my way to Washington, D.C. a few months back to give a very big, huge presentation, and I was nervous and she's in the car driving me to the airport, and she said, can you believe that you're going to this enormous thing and you're giving a presentation and you've written two books now? And I said, no. I said, it's amazing. I know. I can't believe it. She said, I'm serious. She said, you barely graduated from high school. So, okay, well, thanks. And she's playing with me. It's like, thanks, honey. I recall. I remember. And she's still. And she's grinning, and she said, honestly. They said, this is Hay House Publishing putting on this event. Don't they do background checks on people? You know? And so it's become this ongoing joke, and it's fun now. And people will ask me, they'll say, how did you do it? You know, how did you go from having really no experience as a speaker or as an author, and then all of a sudden, you're on some of the biggest stages in the world? And the first thing that I tell people is that it comes down to that wonderful quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson. Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen. And I had decided when I closed the doors of my photography studio. I didn't say, well, maybe it'll work out. Maybe I can do it. There was only one way this would work for me, is I had to decide 100%, with all my heart and just keep on keeping on, no matter what. And there were some obstacles, no doubt. But the second thing that I tell people is that it's not about how, it's about why. And for me, it's always been about the why. Why am I doing this? And I think when the why overpowers the how, then you can't fail. And for me, it was personal. This mission of kindness was something that, you know, because of my family history and everything that I had experienced, failure was not an option. And so I just. I knew that I would continue on this path and that it would work out exactly the way that I had hoped it would.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

In the book, you tell this story about. I think it was dressing up for Halloween, and you had a gun as part of your costume. You had. I think this was a night that you had written a note, a suicide note, and you had gone around and you were talking to various people to say goodbye, even though they didn't necessarily realize it.

Michael Chase:

Yeah, that was probably. If I hit rock bottom in life at any point, that was it. I was in my mid-20s, still very angry, resentful, just living With a lot of bitterness toward my childhood. And I just couldn't get past it. My relationships were falling apart. I just had nothing. I felt nothing to live for other than I had this beautiful little boy. But I felt that if I was in the world, then I would pass on this disease of unkindness from my family. And so, yeah, a very dark, dreary Halloween night. I got dressed up. I was all in black, painted my face white. I looked like a complete freak. And then I bought a toy plastic gun that I tucked into my belt. And I went out with a bunch of friends that night and did the whole stupid bar scene thing. And. But my whole plan was to basically just go out with my friends. And I even visited some other people that day. And it was my secret way of saying goodbye because I was planning on going to my apartment that night and ending my life. And so I left the bar a little before midnight, and they were all going up to check out Stephen King's house, you know, great night on Halloween. And. And so I started walking home. And I'm just walking down Main street when all of a sudden I see blue lights and I hear the sound of a police car roaring straight at me. And he locks it up in the middle of the road, jumps out, puts his hand on his gun, and he starts yelling. He says, put the gun down now. And at first, I didn't know what he was talking about. I was thinking about the note that I was going to write and things I would say to my dad. And I was just in this complete fog and he just kept saying it. Put the gun down. And then I finally looked down and I realized I had that plastic gun in my hand. And my first thought was to lift my arm up and just end it right here. Make him. Make him shoot you. And this whole dramatic thing started to unfold. And it was just a matter of. I don't know, it could have been a minute and a half, couple minutes, it felt like forever, of this intense stare down between me and this police officer. But as the seconds went by, he just started to look at me with more and more compassion and understanding. And I was seeing something in his eyes that I rarely experienced. It was just this tenderness, like he really cared about me. And that triggered a flashback and a promise that I had made to my mom. And I was standing there, I remembered that I had told my mom I will never end up like my great grandfather, my grandfather, my dad, all the messiness. I would be a good person, good husband, all that someday. And I was breaking that promise. And, you know, that thought, of course, and thinking about my little boy, I just dropped the gun and found myself being smashed face first into a brick wall. Left a really cool white imprint of my face on the wall. I drove through downtown Bangor for a couple of days, telling my friends, hey, check that out. That's my face on the wall. But after that experience, I knew that I had to make some changes. And it wasn't that I had gotten on this deep spiritual path after that, but I knew that, okay, something has to change. And the first thing that I began to work toward was forgiving my father, just at least considering it. And, yeah, things started to change in small ways at that time.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And part of it, if I remember correctly, was that you actually came to a place of understanding that if you asked, by putting your arm up and pointing a gun at the policeman, if you asked him to end your life, then you would be changing his life for the worse. You would be causing him to shoot somebody, which would just cause irreparable damage to his own psyche and his own emotions.

Michael Chase:

Absolutely. That was another thing that popped into my mind that night. I mean, here was this. I mean, and he could have. He could have been some, you know, renegade cop and just put me down right then and there, but he. But he, you know, he had that, like I said, that look of compassion and care in his eyes and. Yeah, and I realized that as well, had he shot me. I mean, some stupid kid with a plastic gun, who knows what that would have done to his life and how it would have affected him. So sometimes we just don't realize how powerful our choices are. Those small, tiny epiphanies and decisions that, I mean, they have a profound ripple effect. So, yeah, I mean, I'm forever grateful for just those kind eyes on that night that probably saved my life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That, for me, I think, is one of the two really compelling parts of this that you would. In this moment of significant stress and the time in your life when you were thinking, okay, this is all going to be over soon anyway, you were able to think about somebody else. So that's. That's one thing that I think just captured my attention. But the other part is just this capacity for change, and this is something that we talk about on this show all the time, is that people always have the capacity to change.

Sandra Fisher:

Your.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Your father actually became a loving grandfather to your son for a short period of time before he ended his own life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

He changed.

Michael Chase:

He did. My. My dad did a lot of work to try to just get on a happier, healthier path. Many years back, he gave up drinking and he also started to seek out therapy. And he tried a variety of different medications. Those weren't working for him. Those actually created more struggles. And so he was searching endlessly. And it did put him on a healthier path so that he at least became, you know, in many ways, I look at my father's relationship with my son. I mean, that was, that was my dad's way of healing some of his pain from my relationship with him. And at first it hurt because I saw all this love and attention being going, you know, toward my son, and I was like, why didn't I get that when I was a little boy? But then I started to see it in a different way, and it was just, it was beautiful to witness, would bring tears to my eyes when I had that understanding of, like I said, what my grandfather was like, my great grandfather was like, this was a beautiful thing for my dad and I'll be forever grateful. And having my son is probably one of the things also that began to heal our relationship somewhat.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We'll return to our interview in a moment. We on the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast hope that our listeners enjoy their own work lives to the same extent we do and fully embrace every day. As a physician and small business owner, I rely on Marcie Booth from Booth

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Main to help me with my own

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

business and to help me live my own life fully. Here are a few thoughts from Marcy.

[Unidentified voice]:

Throughout my career, I've worked with countless small business owners and entrepreneurs who have invested so much time and work that very little time was left over to enjoy life, to savor time with family or friends and doing things other than work that revives them. It's a common application to the old adage, if you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself. But what if doing it yourself means not doing it correctly? What if spending all that time at work keeping all the balls in the air zaps your mental energy so much that you're not able to enjoy your life outside of work? When I run into people who suffer from that I've got to do it myself syndrome, I tell them, stop. Take a look at the parts of your business you enjoy working on you're good at and create value. Then look at the duties that are on the need to get them done list and think, can I outsource these? Chances are the answer will be yes. And there are a number of people out there who specialize in helping small businesses win. When you outsource you give yourself the gift of time, time that can be savored, doing more of what matters to you personally. When this happens, you'll be surprised at the positive impact it will have on your business and your mental health. For more insight, contact us@boothmaine.com.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've talked about the reasons why you might not have become kind, the unkindness in your life. And we've talked about some of the turning points that caused you to become kind of. Now tell me what it is that you do at the Kindness center and what are some of the things that you've done to promote the idea of kindness in this world?

Michael Chase:

It's interesting. You know, the Kindness center people, first of all, they think the Kindness center, where that must be nestled in the mountains, surrounded by unicorns and rainbows and pixie dust. And it sounds like a magical place, you know, and we did originally think, okay, it will be a, a physical location someday, and it still may. If the right opportunity comes along, then I would love to have a place where people could come. But it quickly turned into a mobile center where I started to take this idea of creating a kinder world and putting it in a vehicle of doing large scale random acts of kindness events. And we've taken them all over the country started. The first one was right here in Portland called 24 Hours of Kindness. And it's this marathon, 24 hour marathon of just performing random acts of kindness with no sleep, no breaks, just doing good things for other people. Last summer I did this event in New York City. I did the 24 hours there. And you want to talk about there's a difference between Portland, Maine and New York City. Let me just tell you, you don't wear your Red Sox hat there, okay, if you want to perform acts of kindness. But it was amazing. The people were really wonderful, actually. And so we've done 3,000 miles of kindness, a cross country road trip. So all these events became a big part of sharing the message of kindness. But the primary thing that I do now is I speak. I speak to people all over the world now. I've been so blessed to be able to travel to share this. And the wonderful thing is that kindness is a universal language. You know, it makes no difference Whether I'm speaking to a group of middle school students, which I do, I speak to thousands of students every year using kindness as an alternative to anti bullying. So we bring something positive. Here's what you can do instead of what not to do. It's been extremely effective. So whether I'm speaking to middle school kids or a group in corporate America, everybody understands it. I mean, it doesn't step on any toes, it doesn't offend, it doesn't, you know, because some people, you know, I speak to Christian groups, I speak to Buddhist groups, I speak to people that are just totally non believers. But we all can connect with that message of kindness. So the Kindness center just continues to be a vehicle for creating these events, sharing the message, and we have other people that get involved with those events. And it's been amazing, absolutely amazing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And we know that in medicine we've done work on compassion, we've done work on kindness, we've seen actual brain changes in brain physiology, we've seen changes in the way that the heart works. So we know that actually being kind to other people comes back to benefit us positively. This is something that's become more mainstream as we've understood it. But it's funny that this is something that all of the major religions and spiritual traditions have been talking about for thousands of years, and medicine is just finally catching up.

Michael Chase:

Absolutely. And I mean, it is so simple. I mean, it is. And people say, how can you possibly make a living in kindness? You know, because it's the most basic thing, but sadly, it's a thing that's missing from the world. I mean, so often. I mean, don't get me wrong, I believe there's far more good out there. Unfortunately, the media shows us a lot of the ugliness in the world, but there is a tremendous amount of unkindness happening. And I believe that unhappiness is, for the most part, the cause of the unkindness in the world. When we're not happy with who we are, if we don't love ourselves first and that not in an egotistical way, but in a spiritual sense. I mean, it's very difficult to be kind to others. So kindness toward yourself is where it all begins. So many spiritual teachers have told us over the years that world peace must develop out of inner peace. It starts with you, but as you said, science is showing. I mean, an act of kindness towards someone. If you perform an act of kindness, your level of serotonin goes up, it gets more interesting, because if not only does your serotonin go up, but the person on the other end, their level of serotonin goes up as well. But then someone just observing the act of kindness, just the observer witnessing a kind act, their level of serotonin goes up as well. So it's that simple. But at the same time, it is that incredibly powerful. The way that I typically define kindness is that it is love in action. You know, love is that big, you know, warm and fuzzy word that people think about romantic love, you think about family, you know, but I'm speaking about a, just a, all encompassing, just that divine spirit of love. And whenever you perform an act of kindness, you are essentially performing an act of, of love. And one of the things I wanted to do in my first book, am I being Kind? Is to explain what a kind heart really looks like. And I came up with nine, what I call nine elements of a kind heart very briefly to break them down. They are to be attentive, authentic, charitable, compassionate, courageous, enthusiastic, grateful, inspirational and patient. I can't believe I just remembered all nine of them. I think that was nine. But each one in the book explains how that really creates a kind life. And just like that first one, to be attentive. The first key to kindness that I talk about in the book is awareness. And we're living in a time where our awareness is being stripped away by technology. I mean, you see wherever people are, I mean, their heads are down, we're always staring at our iPads, our iPhones or some electronic device now I love my iPhone. It's amazing. However, we have to open our hearts, open our eyes and look around and recognize there are opportunities to be kind everywhere. And just the other day at an outdoor farmer's market and there was a big pizza stand and I was just hanging out, leaning against the wall, talking to my wife. And a little boy and his mom walked up to the pizza stand and she said, how much is a slice of pizza? And he told her and she said, oh, do you take credit cards? And the man said, no, we don't take credit cards. I'm so sorry. Well, I heard that. And the first thing that I wanted to do, of course, was walk over and buy that piece of pizza. And I did. And it was just a simple four dollar act of kindness. But the thing that I find is that we're so blind in life now because of our technology and our busyness. We're impatient, we're just rushing, rushing, rushing. And we're missing all of these little beautiful moments that are unfolding and an opportunity to touch Someone's life, and she was almost in tears. And it's okay. It's just a piece of pizza. All I want is for you just to pass it on in some way. Doesn't mean financially just a kind word, a compliment. Open a door for someone and the universe sees it as we're even. But yeah, defining kindness, it is so much more than just just a word. It is a way of being. And when you are thinking, speaking, and acting in kinder ways and being kind to yourself, others on this planet, I can guarantee my life comes with a 100. My book, my book comes with a 100% life back guarantee. I always say, if it doesn't change your life, you can have your old life back, no questions asked. Now, that's a good deal, right?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's not always easy to be kind. I mean, some of the stories that you've talked about involved hanging out with people on the streets who maybe they don't smell very good or they're secondhand smokers or, you know, maybe you feel a little threatened because some of them are a little angry or dangerous. How do you push through that?

Michael Chase:

I mean, yeah, I know what you're saying. I mean, I work with a lot of homeless people. I'm doing these events, but I rarely run into people that reject what I'm trying to offer. And for me, it's all about energy. And when we do these large, random acts of kindness events, and if we're out there on the streets approaching people, doing things, I talk to everybody first before we head out there. And I said, listen, it's all about the energy that you're putting out that's coming from your thoughts, radiating out of your own heart. Because when I approach people, if I walk up to someone go, hey, yeah, I was just out and I don't know, I thought, I'd like to just be kind to you. Here's a free cup of coffee. Or, you know, people are swinging at you or grabbing for their mace, right? You know, you come across so just really weird. So you have to walk up to people and you've got to have enthusiasm, you've got to have passion in your voice, you've got to have positive energy. You've got to radiate that positivity, that love, that kindness, that compassion. And when you do that, people feel it. And people are so hungry for this in the world that they immediately perk up and they're like, okay, I want more. What's going on here? Now, that's not to say, I mean, from Time to time, there is going to be a person that will say, no, get away from me. I don't want what you're selling. Because we live in a world where nothing's for free, right? And when I'm out there doing things for people, they're like, this is, you know, this has got to be too good to be true. And it's like, no, really, we're just out to promote this message of kindness. And all we want from you is to pass it on. Just pass it on to someone else. Although I did have a man in New York City, I was doing the 24 hours of kindness. It was so funny. In Times Square, he's got his whole family and all these kids, himself, his wife, and they're at an ice cream truck. So I run up to the ice cream truck and I tell the driver, I said, hey, I want to buy ice cream for this entire family. And I gave him some money. And the family is like, they're all excited and everything. And the dad was this big kind of tough guy, and he's like, what's this all about? What are you doing? I said, no, I'm just, I just, you know, want to make you happy. Just want to buy you some free ice cream. And he was still like, didn't get it. I said, I tell you what, all you got to do, make it even. I said, just give me a hug, man. Just hug me and we'll call it good. And he goes, I ain't hugging you, man. And he grabs his wife, he throws his wife at me, says, hug her instead. So funny things happen. It's always interesting. He didn't hug me, but he did take the free ice cream. Yeah, he was, he was cool with that. So it's, it's always an adventure and it's. Yeah, it's just. I don't know, I've just got the world, the world's best gig. I don't feel like I have a job. I just am so blessed to do what I do every day.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How has this all impacted your son?

Michael Chase:

My son is an amazing young man. A very, he's become a deep thinker, very philosophical. He's, he's not your typical 22 year old that is, you know, drinking, partying, doing crazy stuff. I mean, he's, he's got some, he's got some great friends and that makes a big difference. But yeah, he's just. I don't know if I can take credit for it because I've really tried to, you know, go by that, that Philosophy of what Gandhi said, my life is my message, so I don't have to tell my son every day, be kind, do this, do that. I don't want to walk that path because anytime you tell a kid to do something, they want to do the complete opposite anyway. So I just, I just live my life and I hope that he'll be watching and, you know, and mirror some of the things that I'm trying to put out there. And he does. He's a beautiful, beautiful soul. I love him so much.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how about that wife of yours

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

who's encouraging you to do the crazy kindness thing?

Michael Chase:

I couldn't do this without her. I mean, when I told everyone that I was going to close down the photography studio, which by the way was the business was half hers, I mean, she was an award winning photographer for 16 years. And I had my epiphany that kindness was the secret to happiness. And I said, honey, I want to close down the studio. I said, I want to go out and teach kindness. And she just said, I can see you doing that. Let's do it. I mean, it was incredible. Just like that. And there have been major obstacles. I mean, we, it's not like we closed the business, but we didn't have a surplus of money or, you know, to start this whole thing. It was on faith. And it's been incredible how she just. Every day, no matter what. I mean, if there were times that, I mean, and there were, there were times that we literally could not put food on the table in the first couple of years of doing this. And I said, I can't do this anymore. I said, we've got to do something different. Maybe I should go back to photography, maybe get a job. I don't know. And she just looked at me. She had tears in her eyes and she was very emotional. She said, you will never give this up. The world needs this more than ever. And I don't care how many days we go without groceries, the world needs this. And you will never stop. So that's the kind of love and support that I get every single day. I mean, my wife is, I mean, she's like my best friend and we just, and we work together too. I mean, she's a huge part of this. So I'm very blessed.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

People can read about the profile.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've done the Q and A with

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Sophie Nelson in the wellness issue of Maine magazine. So I encourage anyone who's listening to do that. How else can they find out about you?

Michael Chase:

Well, the, the website for the Kindness center of course is thekindnesscenter.com which is also the same site as michaeljchase.com we also have a very large Facebook community and it's been wonderful. The people there are just doing beautiful things, trying to promote the message and helping me to share kind acts all over the world. So we always love people to join that Facebook page too and share what they're doing and inspire us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

When does your next book come out?

Michael Chase:

The new book it comes out this May and it's very different than the original book. The first book was very much a self help type of book and this one, it has that same tone of, you know, my goal was to help people and to definitely transform as many lives as possible with a new book, but this one is really very unique. It's a spiritual journey with my insanely crazy yet unconditionally loving dog. We are so excited about this. It's already had a lot of reviews by some other authors, so yeah, we're expecting some great things from that this spring. The Radical Practice of Loving Everyone A Four Legged Approach to Enlightenment We've been

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

speaking with Michael J.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Chase, who is the best selling author of Am I Being Kind and also

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

founder of the Kindness center and also husband and father. We're very fortunate that you've spent this time this morning with us talking about kindness.

Michael Chase:

I'm so grateful for your time. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As a physician, I've had the opportunity and privilege to spend time with people who have dealt with some very significant issues in their lives. Grief, death, loss. These are things that come up often in conversation. And of course this is a conversation between a physician and a patient.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's not always a conversation that makes

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

it out into the light of day, and yet I think it's one that's very important to have. So I am honored and humbled by the courage that Sandra Fisher has exhibited by coming into the studio today to talk about a very difficult subject that I think is one that we all need to think about. Thanks for coming in and being with me today.

Sandra Fisher:

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And next to Sandra, and I'm going to call you Sandy, we have our friend Leanne, who who works with Maine Magazine, Maine Home Design, and was a friend of your son Scott.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And Scott's not with us anymore.

Sandra Fisher:

No, he's not. No.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is the difficult topic. I think this is the most difficult topic that we've ever addressed, and that is when a person takes their own life and how this comes to happen and how it impacts the people around him or her.

Sandra Fisher:

Yes, it is. Scott took his life almost eight years ago, and it's still not easy. It never will be.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

He had just finished school at Deering.

Sandra Fisher:

Yes. He had graduated in 2005, and he was at Rensselaer Polytech Institute in Troy, New York. He'd been there for three weeks. He had had to go earlier than the other kids. He had a full Navy ROTC scholarship, and he had to go for the, like, boot camp for the first week. He was struggling. He told us before he went that he thought he might be depressed. We immediately took him to see a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist wasn't sure whether it was just because of all the changes in his life that he was depressed, but he thought he should put him on medication and told them to see a doctor as soon as he got to school. So he did. He did exactly that. Saw the medical doctor and saw a counselor, psychologist while he was there. And he was struggling and he had an allergic reaction to the medication. And I told him to go to the emergency room. He did. They took him off the medication and they sent him home. Sent him back. Not home, which they should have sent him home. They sent him back to school, and a week later he took his life. It happened very quickly. It wasn't like he had been dealing with a mental illness for a long period of time or depression even for a long period of time. It happened very, very quickly. And people need to be aware of that, that it can happen very quickly. And because I didn't know anything about suicide or suicide prevention, I didn't realize that he was screaming for help. And even to the psychologist after we got the records from her. I was really angry because she should have known. He tried every way possible to tell her without coming right out and telling her. And I, after taking the training, I have taken quite a few trainings on suicide prevention. I've read everything there is to read about depression. And now I know the warning signs were all there, plain as day, and it just. Everyone should be educated about it so that they. You'll know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What were some of the specific stressors

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

that Scott was encountering?

Sandra Fisher:

I think one of the biggest ones was homesickness. Scott, he loved his life. He really did. I mean, he had some of the best friends that anybody could ask for. His friends are all still a part of our lives. They invite us to their weddings, they come and visit us. He had a wonderful girlfriend who was still a part of our lives. And he loved his family. He just. He seemed to have it all. He really did. And I don't think that he wanted to go away to school. And I tried to talk him out of going, but he also had a lot of pride.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Do you think that part of this pride had something to do with being a man?

Sandra Fisher:

Yeah, probably, but he was just that kind of kid. He was very, very intelligent. And he didn't think that he was intelligent as he really was, although I think at the end he was starting to realize. And I think that also had something to do with it. And, you know, the reading that I've done says a lot of very intelligent people take their lives.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And why is that?

Sandra Fisher:

I think because the world sometimes, or even their intelligence becomes overwhelming for them. He always used to say to me, mom, I'm not as smart as you think I am. And I would say, scott, you are really smart. And he wasn't a vain kid or he didn't need recognition for anything, but he was 15th in his class at daring, and that was without working really hard. He just was smart.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We'll return to our interview in a minute, but first, let's take some time to explore the connection between health and wealth, something that I firmly believe in and have tried to promote on this show. Joining us is my friend and personal financial advisor, Tom Sheppard.

[Unidentified voice]:

The first tool we used to get what we wanted was to cry. The first thing we used to make others feel good was to smile. Born into a world of complete dependence, we eventually find our voice and begin to talk about independence. Over time, we learn to do for ourselves while the support gets slowly taken away. Or so we think. I have always been struck by the disconnect of a life that is benchmarked against time instead of experience. Our currency is not the time that goes by, never to return, but instead the relationships, connections, skills, money, resources, knowledge that builds a foundation underneath us that can't be destroyed. We may be learning to live on our own, but it should never be the goal of living alone. So if you need something, cry out, and if you have something to give, let the world know with a smile. You may have many ways to trade for more value in the world, but if you're having trouble seeing it, then send us an email to infoepherdfinancialmain.com securities

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Do you think that kids feel a pressure to live up to some unattainable standards?

Sandra Fisher:

Absolutely. I I think our schools put way too much pressure on them to go to college. Some of them are not ready to go to college, and some of them are never going to be ready to go to college. College isn't for everybody, and in this world today, it's, oh, if you don't have a college education, forget it. You're not going to go anywhere. Well, that's not true. And kids need to know that whatever choice they make, it has to be the choice that's going to make them happy, not anybody else happy. They've got to make the choice that's going to make them happy. Not that I think that Scott would have never gone to college, but I don't think that Scott, especially Scott, should not have gone away to college. And Scott was accepted to every college he applied to, and the reason he chose to go there was because he wanted he was going into aeronautic engineering and they were the best school for it. But Scott could have been anything he wanted and could have gone anywhere he wanted and still become anything he wanted to become.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Is it possible that we put too much value on the academic intelligence of our children and maybe miss out on the emotional intelligence of our children and nurturing that and growing that.

Sandra Fisher:

Absolutely. Absolutely. We had all of that in our lives. Like, we never pressured Scott. As far as school went, Scott was the one who pressured himself. If Scott did not do well, Scott was very hard on himself for it. Not that I can remember him not doing well, but, I mean, we never had to say to Scott, did you do your homework? Or. It just wasn't that way. Scott, he was hard on himself. And we were the four. There's my husband, myself and my daughter. And we're originally from Rhode Island. We've been here for over 20 years. And all of our family is in Massachusetts, in Rhode Island. So it's always just been the four of us. So we were very close, the four of us. We all had a lot of love for each other. And so he had all of that in his life. But it's the pressure of school and society telling them, this is what you have to do, and not thinking about their emotional. And is this what's good for them emotionally? Which is why. And his friends, so many of them came to me afterwards and said, you know, Mrs. Fisher, everybody told us it was going to be the best time of our lives when we went to college. And they'd all been together since kindergarten, and all of a sudden they were all alone in this big place and didn't know anybody. And we don't prepare them for that. And it's all preparing them for the education. You got to do well and you got. And it's not. You got to prepare them emotionally for this. And I did. I worked with a guidance counselor during high school to develop a transition program for the high school seniors to prepare them for anything, no matter what they chose to do, but for the transition after they graduated from high school and to let them know it was okay not to go to college, it was okay to do whatever it was you wanted to do. If you decided you weren't ready yet and you were going to get a job, that's fine, but prepare them for what that transition would be like as well. And then we worked with Maine Youth Suicide Prevention Program to develop a formal program, which we did develop. But since NAMI has taken over that grant and works with that, and I have been out of the loop, so I really don't have any information on what is happening with that program right now. And NAMI is National alliance of Mental Illness.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So if people wanted to find out information about the suicide prevention program, then they could find that information from that organization, yes.

Sandra Fisher:

And all of the prevention programs, suicide prevention programs, they do all the trainings for. So I can't stress enough how important it is that people do be educated because you also can't rely if you, if your child is struggling and you are, you get them help. You cannot be sure that that physician or that psychologist or counselor is educated about suicide prevention because that's not always the case, as was not the case with the psychologist my son was seeing. I have to believe that because otherwise she would have done something. One of the most important things is if you think someone is suicidal, you have to ask them question. And it's a very difficult question to ask, but you have to ask it and you have to come right and ask. You can't ask someone if they're thinking about hurting themselves because to someone who's suicidal, they don't think of it as hurting themselves. And so you have to come right out and ask the question, are you thinking about killing yourself or taking your life? Because a lot of times they're just waiting for somebody to ask that question.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I encourage anybody who's listening to do whatever is necessary. Look into the National Association, national alliance

Sandra Fisher:

of Mental Illness

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

or the suicide prevention program, or talk to your doctor, push through, talk to a psychiatrist, talk to a psychologist, whatever is necessary to get the help that your child or anyone around you that is contemplating suicide needs. It's very, very important. And we've been blessed to have you in the studio talking with us about this very difficult subject and also blessed to have sitting next to you who hasn't said a word, but offering her support to you, Scott's friend Leanne we met, who works here at Maine Magazine, Maine Home Design. So thank you for joining us today. Sandra Fisher and I really wish you all the, all the best.

Sandra Fisher:

Thank you. Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 79, Emotional Intelligence. Our guests have included author and founder of the Kindness Center, Michael Chase and Sandra Fisher, suicide prevention advocate and mother. For more information on our guests, visit doctor. Org. The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is downloadable for free on itunes. For a preview of each week's shows, sign up for our e. Newsletter and like our Dr. Lisa Facebook page. You can also follow me on Twitter and Pinterest Dr. Lisa and read my take on health and well being on The Bountiful Blog, bountifulpath.com We love to hear from you. So please let us know what you think of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. I'm privileged that our sponsors enable me to bring the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle hoping that you have found our show on Emotional Intelligence enlightening and beneficial. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you embrace your bountiful life.

Sandra Fisher:

Sa.