Evelyn King

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

fly fisher Evelyn King is a founding director of the Sebago Trout Unlimited's Women's fly fishing group. She also serves on Sebago Trout Unlimited's Board of Directors and volunteers with Casting for Recovery, a fly fishing instructional program for breast cancer survivors. Thanks for coming in today.

Evelyn King:

Oh, I'm honored. Thank you for inviting me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One of the reasons we were interested in having you in, at least one of the reasons I was interested in having you in is that one of the ways that my father, who's a family doctor, used to decompress after having taking care of patients and my nine younger brothers and sisters was to go fishing along the Royal River. And he was not a fly fisherman. But I remember this very clearly, that there was something about the water that really gave him great calm and great peace. I didn't really quite get that as a child. You know, why one would do that. But it seems like you get that because otherwise you wouldn't be doing the work that you do.

Evelyn King:

Absolutely. When you're on the water, you're living in the moment, you appreciate what's around you. It slows you down. And especially for someone that has a job that requires a lot of thinking or stress, when you get on the river, you put that aside. It's like meditation or like yoga. You live in the moment, and the double reward is that it de. Stresses you, but it also. The more you live in the moment and notice what's around you, the better fisherman you are. You start to see the bugs on the water. You start to really see what's going on in nature, see the water patterns, and it just tunes you in, and you become a much better fisherman. So I can see that you've been

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

doing this with women specifically, but

Evelyn King:

you've

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

been basically doing fly fishing your entire life, not just with women.

Evelyn King:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you see the benefit for everybody, really.

Evelyn King:

Absolutely. I fished with my husband, who was then my boyfriend, when we were. You know, I was a teenager. And he laughs about it because I loved. I always want to be outdoors. I love to be outdoors. But I was primarily a runner, like Joni Samuelson. But I. I would go fishing with him because I wanted to do things with him, and I would try. But if ever another man showed up on the river, like if we were in a river or on a pond, in a boat, if another man showed up, I would tuck the rod away. I thought that I wasn't good enough to be fishing, and I was embarrassed. So I loved to fish, but I was really a shy fisherman. And he kept encouraging me, telling me that, you know, it doesn't matter. You don't need to cast well, you know, you. You do as well as anyone else on the river. And I think that's why I eventually figured out that a way to give back was to encourage other women to take on that risk as well. To. To not be afraid and not feel like they. Not to be intimidated and not. Not to follow their passion because they, you know, other people were watching them.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's interesting that you would find that intimidating, given that you were one of the early classes of women to integrate at Exeter and then were in one of the early classes of women to integrate at Bowdoin, where you were in the same class with Joni Benoit Samuelson. And yet you got on the river with men, and somehow you felt like it wasn't your place.

Evelyn King:

Wow. That's a good question or a good comment. I'm also a perfectionist, somewhat of a perfectionist. And I think when I do things, I really want to figure them out. And when I was fishing, what really got me motivated to. To get better at fishing was I would watch other people fish, and I didn't understand why they would put the fly, you know, under the bank along the other side of the river. Why were they not fishing at the, you know, below us? You know, how did they know which fly to put on? How did they know to get their fly to land just right? And as a. Somewhat of a perfectionist, I, I knew I couldn't do what they were doing, and so I, I wanted to watch, I think, but it gave me a lifetime of learning to try to figure those things out.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I actually think that this is. There is something a little bit gender oriented about that, because from what I understand, female physicians often feel like they are imposters when they're early on in their careers. And there's something called the imposter syndrome. Whereas male physicians are more likely to believe that they know enough and feel confident in the work that they are doing.

Evelyn King:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I suspect this is probably true across other fields. But it's interesting that what you're describing that. And I don't, I, I don't know that this is the case, but I just wonder if there is a gender predisposition here.

Evelyn King:

You might be right, because I know a number of men that I've met through the years that are avid fishermen and fished all their lives, and it hasn't been their passion to figure out all the flies. They know five or six flies and they know one stretch of river, and they're very confident at that. And I. And that imposter syndrome is. I definitely felt like an imposter, but it didn't keep me from doing it. It just slowed down my risk taking when other people were around.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You are also a fourth generation camp director at a girls camp.

Evelyn King:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you've been responsible for encouraging young women from an early age to go out and do the things that made them happy, regardless of whether there's a gender orientation to their choice.

Evelyn King:

Right, right. And we always laughed. My grandfather, who was the second generation camp director, camp owner of Camp Ohilo, he always said, there's nothing women can't do that men can do. It just sometimes it needs a few more bodies. We would be moving these huge docks on the beach to get them in the water. And, you know, sometimes we put 30 people, 30 women around the dock to move it. You know, we didn't need a tractor. We just, you know, got enough woman power together. Yeah, I've. I've always felt really strongly about empowering women. And I have two daughters. And I was raised from the time I was two at the summer camp for girls all the way up through to being a counselor and a camp director. And I raised our Children the same way there. And I just always felt like it was such a positive environment, but it wasn't ever about women being better or stronger or anything. It was just having women be in their own environment as a community and empowering each other and not comparing themselves to the opposite gender during those informative years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So we're in an interesting time now because you've been doing this work for a long, long while trying to empower women, and yet we, many young women, are feeling like we're not far enough along.

Evelyn King:

Right? It is interesting. I think people are becoming more aware. I don't have the answer for that one.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I don't either. That's why I was asking you, because I figured maybe you had some insights based on the work that you've been doing.

Evelyn King:

I think my approach has always been to work in collaboration with men. Like with Trout Unlimited. When I started there, it was basically all men in the, you know, in the meeting room. And I didn't go in saying, you know, I am a woman, I am strong. I just went in saying, you know, how can I help you bring more women into. Into the fold? You know, let's. Let's expand this. And, well, they. And they asked me to do that, and it was just such a treat. And so I think. And I've had the men help us with a lot of events, and they've been really welcoming. They have been so supportive. So I feel like in my life I've gotten so much more done by collaborating with, you know, all across the community, you know, regardless of gender or nationality or anything, rather than being confrontational about it. Not that that's a bad way at all. It's just a different way. And I just have benefited from collaborations.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I feel the same way. I have a. I have two daughters also, and a son. So my son is my oldest child, and then my middle child is 22, and I have a 17 year old. And it really never made sense for me. And I have five brothers and a father who I adore. It never made sense for me to be confrontational and to be blaming these men around me for problems that women were experiencing. And I don't know that this is what's happening now in our culture with every young woman, but I definitely am sensing some friction with some of what's happening, and it's painful. It is because I think specifically of my own son, and I would never want him to feel responsible for things that an entire gender is possibly being blamed for.

Evelyn King:

Right. Yeah. No, it's. I have a son and the two daughters as well. And I just, I love the fact that women can be treated equally, should be treated equally. And I like to think of it just on the positive side that it's so wonderful what we can do to empower our youth. I have a granddaughter now. Empower our grandchildren, be role models. And it's not breaking down barriers, but just opening doors of possibility. Look, you can go to Trout Unlimited and be one of the first women in the group and then other women will follow. And eventually I'll hope to take my granddaughter with me to, to Trout Unlimited. Yeah. Just to be inspiration and a mentor and try to take that approach.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Tell me about Trout Unlimited. I'm sure that there are people who are listening that don't have a good sense of what that organization is or does.

Evelyn King:

It's a national organization. There are 400 chapters within the U.S. maine has five. I belong to Sebago Trout Unlimited and we have about 600, 650 members. And it's just a wonderful organization. I think a lot of people that are just in the audience that aren't really participating in conservation are there because they love to fish. And through fishing they've really gained an appreciation for how important it is to have clean, cold water and to keep, not keep invasive species out of the water and take down dams and open fish passageways. Our group has been instrumental in reclaiming five ponds in the state of Maine. And by that I mean taking the evasive species out and opening the, cleaning the habitat so that the native brook trout can, can spawn and grow and not be eaten by invasive species. We've also helped with two dam removals. And that's so exciting because you're opening up the waterways. You know, sea round brook trout can come in from the ocean, but often they like on the Mousam river or the Royal river, they can only go as far as the first impedement. And so Trout Unlimited is looking at all these river systems and trying to figure out and collaborating with the state of Maine and National TU and National Inland Fisheries and Wildlife and Maine Fishing Wildlife to try to find ways to fund the removal of dams or safe passage around them. So it's a very dynamic group. There's a core group of people. Steve Hines is on our board and he sort of organizes the conservation part and he has developed this whole team that helps them now grant writing and organizing with towns and with the water, water quality people, you know, just trying to collaborate to, to help pull these things off.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Tell me about the work that you do. With casting for recovery.

Evelyn King:

Oh, that's so rewarding. It's. I got asked, I was friends with Bonnie Holding, I have been for years and years. And she has annually held a Castenville recovery retreat for breast cancer survivors. And I tried to get into the program for a couple years and she always had more volunteers than she needed. And so it motivated me to get my guide's license so that I was qualified so she couldn't say no. And eventually I got to go. I've been going for about five years to help on the weekend retreats. But it's the whole combination of getting into nature, getting women into nature, breaking the pattern of thought by exposing them to a new sport, meeting new people and developing that bond. And then fishing is. Fly fishing especially is therapeutic. As you know, being a doctor, the motion of casting is therapeutic for people that have had surgery on their breasts. But I think the community that's built on that three day weekend is just amazing. And I've read the comments that people have made afterwards that it sometimes has changed their lives because it gives them something beyond their illness and their current situation to dream about, to think about, to. It's a peaceful place. So it's been, you know, I've been helping for five years and then I. A couple times I got sort of discouraged at my skills because casting looks like a simple thing, but it, it's hard to teach it without going down these rabbit holes. And I wanted to learn how to teach it in a really simple, positive way. And so that inspired me to get my casting certification to be a certified casting instructor just so that I could give back. You know, it's not something I do as a career, but I just wanted to make that experience as rewarding and simple and stress free as possible for the girls.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What does that entail to get one's casting certification?

Evelyn King:

For me, it was a two year process of really intense practice. I went to El Beans and Rod McGarry and Macaulay. Lord Macaulay went to Bowdoin as well. They were instructors in a program. And I did it two years in a row to sort of reinforce what I was learning, the skills, the specific skills needed to teach casting. But along the way, it's really to perfect your own casting because you need to be put yourself out there. Talk about risk taking, you know, put yourself out there to show what a good cast looks like, what people are inspired to try to learn. And then I. For two years of practicing, Rod McGarry was my mentor and we met a couple times a month on at Payson Park. And then I would cast. I work in Portland, and I would jump in the car at Ledge Brakes and go to the West End or Payson park or Back Bay with my fly rod and my cones and my hula hoops, and I would just practice accuracy and distance casting. And I also like doing that because people would stop and ask me about it. And it was a way to show a woman doing something that men would usually do and also, you know, just bring awareness to fly fishing. So that was. And then the whole process culminates with a written test and an oral practice test, which is harder than anything I've done in my whole life. It just being ready for that moment and being calm enough, and you really have to have to perfect your skill in, you know, for any weather, any wind conditions. When I passed it, I was ecstatic. And I remember I did it with another girl, Laney lacase. And the two of us both passed. We went down to Massachusetts and passed it. And on the way home, we were driving, there was this full moon in front of us. And I said, laney, we did it. And every time you see that full moon for the rest of your life, you need to feel that sense of empowerment and just, you know, believe that you can do. Was wonderful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's interesting that you have gone in this direction of fly fishing, because in your parallel life, you are a commercial real estate paralegal, Monahan Leahy. So you have this very intellectual and very technical aspect in your work life, and then you have an intellectual and technical aspect to your other life. But it's also. There's a mindfulness to that, to that second life, I guess.

Evelyn King:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Do you think that you were seeking something like that? Do you think you were seeking a counterbalance?

Evelyn King:

Oh, always. Always my work path. I've always. I love to read, I love to learn, and I really like to be a sleuth. I do due diligence in my work, but it's the same skill set that you use on the river. But I've been working in Portland for Monahan Leahy For 10 years this summer, and it's been wonderful. They've been so supportive of what I do. And I have friends. Tom Leahy is a big fisherman, so we are able to share that passion, you know, talking about what we do on the weekends. But when I started 10 years ago, prior to that, I had worked for myself doing the same type of work, but I had always dictated my own schedule. And so when it was a nice day, I took off the middle of the day and I was outside and I always managed to put work in with. In the. Fitted in between other things that I did with the kids or, you know, did with fishing. So when I started in a job, a real job, it was my first real job where I had to leave the house at seven in the morning and work a long day. I got home at seven at night. The number one priority was to have a window and they laugh about this, but I said I really could not work in a room without being able to see the outdoors at least. And then number two priority was to make sure that every moment on the weekend counted, that I could be outside that I really would treasure, feel so grateful for that time I had outside. And so no coincidence that 10 years ago was really when I went full force into fishing on the weekends and, and into everything fishing related to counterbalance the inside work.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is probably not a relevant question, but I'm just kind of interested. I'm a little nosy sometimes. Why did you decide to go from this other life that you had to this full time job?

Evelyn King:

I am a real estate broker as well as a title abstractor. And what I did prior to working at Monahan Leahy was going from courthouse to courthouse, pulling books and doing research. But right about that time, two things happened. And one is that they put the books all online so that it was digital so that people could stay in their office to do the research. I was a dinosaur. I was of that era of the private, independent title abstractors and there are very few now because people can do the work from their office. And then also there was a slump in the real estate market and I was doing primarily residential real estate research then and it really took a nosedive. And my husband is a commercial lobsterman and at the same time the lobstering industry was kind of floundering. And so I just decided that it was time for a new adventure. Fun to be in Portland. I really was excited to come and work at Portland. And when I interviewed with Tom Leahy at Monahan Leahy, I was just really excited about the possibility of being in a team. You know, I'd done work mostly on my own. I had a few abstractors that worked for me for a while, but suddenly to be part of a community and I think, you know, that's always been a common theme in my life. So it intrigued me and I have really enjoyed it. Never, never questioned that decision for a second.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I guess it is actually kind of relevant because most people in their lives now are going to have several iterations of theirselves. So you can believe when you graduate from Bowdoin, as you did and I did, that your life is going to look a certain way and then things happen and you adjust and you sometimes become a different version of your earlier self. And that's actually okay and it's actually a good thing. And maybe it's really important for the new graduates of Bowdoin to understand that, that there's not really any wrong choice.

Evelyn King:

Right. So every, every downside, every thing that seems like a conflict in your path is apt to lead to something more powerful, more relevant to your life. And I think you have to approach life that way. Just see every challenge as an opportunity to grow. And when I think of what has happened in the last 10 years by that decision, it's just. It's mind boggling. So it is. And I don't know what the next story is. I don't know where you know, in 10 years from now what I'll be doing. But I think it's very important to not feel so strongly that you have to make a choice that you stick with the rest of your life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I also have noticed that particularly in Maine, most people have lots of. They wear lots of different hats. So someone can be a commercial fisherman and they can also be a filmmaker. Someone can be a chef and they can also be a singer songwriter. I mean, it's a very interesting thing that in this, it seems like Maine is very much fostering of that creative spirit.

Evelyn King:

Absolutely. And the irony is that I was an art major at Bowdoin. And as an art major, that didn't prepare me for working in a law firm at all. But that theme has been underlying because I, prior to getting into the fishing wholeheartedly, I was doing a lot with jewelry, but at the same time working as a title abstractor and then working at the summer camp for. As a camp director. I think Maine is. Is that way you can. Maine is also so special because it's a small community. So you can really make a difference. You know, my voice is not, you know, it's not going to carry, you know, forever and ever, but it does in Maine. I can have an impact, you know. You can have an impact. This show is fabulous. And by living in a state where our voices can be heard, it just feels like we can make more of a difference in all the different directions we go in.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been coming to Maine since you were a child. Really, but you moved to Maine when you were 12.

Evelyn King:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you're originally From Montreal?

Evelyn King:

Yes. My mother was from the United States and went to McGill to school. She was a skier, and she met my father, who was from Canada. And so when they got married, they settled in Canada, in Montreal. And so I have fond memories of skiing in the Saint Laurentians, and we lived on the water, but every summer we came down to camp, to the Luther Gulick Camps. And so when I think of my memories of childhood, it's much more about being in the woods on Sebago Lake, building fairy houses out of twigs and pine cones and learning to canoe and being outdoors. So when my parents decided to move to Maine, I was. I was thrilled. It just has. Yeah. Maine is a really special place for

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

women who might be interested in learning about fly fishing. What would you suggest?

Evelyn King:

Oh, well, I mean, obviously I'd love to have anyone that's interested join our women's fly fishing group. We, you know, we. We don't charge for the events we have. I mean, up till now, we haven't. We have monthly meetings. We're just trying to provide a very social community of energetic, enthusiastic women that want to learn a new skill. Some are good fly fishermen, women that want to learn additional things. And a lot of the women that come to our meetings are brand new to the sport. It's really exciting to me. I can think of a number of a handful of people that have started fishing because of our group and have just been so grateful for that community and that empowerment and the enthusiasm of everybody that's around that's helping with the group. Other ways. There are wonderful fishing shows, like Sebego Trout Unlimited has an annual banquet banquet where we provide speakers that talk about fishing and provide auction items to bid on that sometimes include casting instructions or guiding. The Western Maine Fly Fishing show is coming up in a few weeks, in a month or so. And that's a great thing, too. But it. Anybody can start fishing. I mean, it's. It's a. We're trying to break down the barriers in making people realize that it's accessible. I mean, you can fish in the Royal River. You fish, you know, in. In the ocean. In Maine, you can fish just about anywhere. And you can buy a package of gear for under a hundred dollars at L.L. bean's or probably Cabela's. You don't need to have fancy equipment, and you don't need to be able to cast perfectly. I mean, you can fly fish with a, you know, six feet of leader out at the end of your rod and just as if you're playing with a cat. You know, with a little toy you can just tease the fish and have joy just doing that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Evelyn King is a founding director of the Sebago Trout Unlimited's Women's fly fishing group. She also serves on the Sebago Trout Unlimited's board of Directors and volunteers with Casting for Recovering, a fly fishing instructional program for breast cancer survivors. Thank you so much for the work you're doing and thanks for coming in.

Evelyn King:

Oh, my honor, thank you for having me.