Farming Flowers & Cultivating Coffee #301

Stacy Brenner:

I wish that I had had more business classes in college, but I feel like I could describe soil structure really well and soil chemistry and plant anatomy, plant physiology. But beyond that, I didn't leave college knowing how to operate a tractor or how to cultivate.

Mike Mwenedata:

It's just the beginning, but I hope one step, one small step can take you to a big step. So it's a beginning and you want to see it grow and see where it takes us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine radio show number 301, farming flowers and Cultivating Coffee, airing for the first time on Sunday, June 25, 2017. There is an inherent joy in working with what the earth offers. Today we speak with Stacey Brenner, who lives farms and flowers at Broad Turn Farm in Scarborough. We also discuss the Portland based Rwanda Bean Company, a company that returns 50% of its profits to coffee farmers in Rwanda, with co founder Mike Muenadatta. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

who lives farms and flowers at Broad Turn Farm in Scarborough with her husband

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

John Bliss and and two daughters.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

They raise cut flowers and organic vegetables, host weddings and operate a summer day camp. Thanks for coming in today.

Stacy Brenner:

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So I really enjoyed reading about you and your husband, John Bliss and your children, Emma and Flora. It was like a, it's like this lovely, like fairy tale.

Stacy Brenner:

Like you could write a children's story about it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

John Bliss and Flora and you live on the farm and you flower.

Stacy Brenner:

Correct.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm guessing that the actuality of it is not so much a fairy tale, but still kind of fun.

Stacy Brenner:

It's always fun, but it's definitely not a fairy tale.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Definitely not a fairy tale. Well, you have this interesting background because in addition to having now this farm. You have a bachelor's degree in agriculture from the University of Arizona and you have two degrees in nursing from the University of Pennsylvania. So it seems like you've been all about a lot of different things.

Stacy Brenner:

Circuitous route.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, well, I'm completely fine with that. I'm a doctor who hosts a radio show, so I have no criticisms. But tell me a little bit about all of this.

Stacy Brenner:

Well, I always wanted to be a farmer, so I opted to study agriculture in college. But then I had my first daughter when I was in college and realized that I was pretty smitten with the birth process and women's health and so I was drawn to becoming a midwife and pursued that route. When John and I met, I was a single mom living in Philly in school and we decided to throw our lot in together and come to Maine to farm.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I like that even that throwing your lot in together, there's a bit of like, well, let's just see what happens.

Stacy Brenner:

Right. Well, and when you're a single mom, it's sort of all or nothing. Like he's either gonna like, you know, there's a limit to dating when you're a single mom. You're either like, you're either gonna bring him home and introduce him to everybody or you're not. And so you're either gonna, there's full buy in or there's not.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how did you end up at the University of Arizona?

Stacy Brenner:

Well, I went to a small boarding school, Quaker boarding school in Pennsylvania for high school. And I was just really excited to kind of blow the top off and go somewhere big and different. And Arizona was as far from Pennsylvania as you could get. My high school's in suburban Philadelphia, the George School. So I was really looking forward to a big new fun experience. And at the time I was really into rock climbing and so I was looking forward to being in a place where I could spend more time outside all year round.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that must have been interesting. I mean, just start with the, the fact that you went to a Quaker boarding school outside of Pennsylvania. I mean outside of Philadelphia. That's, that's very interesting. Just to start with, what kind of thought went into that?

Stacy Brenner:

I, when I was, I guess I went as a sophomore in high school and just really excited to strike out and, you know, leave my parents house. And I was looking for a different experience than the public high school in our town. And so my parents were supportive of the idea and off I went.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what did you Learn from sort of the Quaker affiliation.

Stacy Brenner:

Well, the best lesson I had in high school was in my Quakerism class, we did a unit on Helen and Scott Nearing, who are sort of famous back to the land homesteaders that had a homestead in Vermont and also in northern Maine along the coast, down east. And so I wrote my senior term paper about Helen and Scott Nearing. They were sort of this embodiment of my childhood idol of floor ingalls. So I had this moment where I realized, oh, there's really people that do this. You know, they have gardens and they eat from their land and they milk cows. Well, I guess the Nearings didn't milk cows, but that this was a possibility that I could do this. And so it sort of like started my wheels turning and this. This kind of idea that this was a real possibility.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Isn't there also something in Quakerism about listening to your own voice and listening to what's coming from inside you as far as creating your own path?

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah, there's lots of work around introspection and sort of seeking the light within to. To guide you forward.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So your light guided you over to the University of Arizona, and you have this agricultural degree, and then you went into nursing for a while and now you're up in Maine. But it seems like in an interesting way, all of these things probably intersect.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah, I do think that they all have an element of nurture to them that is fulfilling and rewarding on a everyday and a big picture level. And the thing I have realized about the role of being a midwife and walking families through the process of having their babies, becoming a family, especially for their first, it's this really big moment for them. But we spend a lot of time building the relationship leading up to the birth so that there's trust and comfort and then you have that big moment. But it's really about the relationship building. And so when I'm doing the work of farming and building relationships with clients and customers, particularly around flowers and people's weddings, I've realized that it's incredibly similar. It's all psychology, it's all big moments. It's all about being present and creating trust and space for these families to come together around what is a significant ritual. And so that's pretty similar. It's just basically, you know, being a guide. And so whether the medium is birth or flowers on a wedding, it has been, for me, quite similar. The stakes are a little different.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I mean, yes, you obviously want to come out with a healthy baby.

Stacy Brenner:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But you also want to come out With a healthy relationship.

Stacy Brenner:

Exactly. Yeah. I think the product of the flowers, you know, it's. The stakes of the flowers are less. It feels like a lower risk than being present for the.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. Certainly if you don't give them exactly the flowers they need, that probably isn't going to cause problems in their marriage relationship, hopefully. I love this. One of the things that I really enjoyed about being a medical student and a resident was birth was really that whole process. But it wasn't just the birth. It was the starting from the beginning.

Stacy Brenner:

Exactly.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And a lot of times, you know, people. If you're a midwife or a family doctor, you know, people before they even get pregnant.

Stacy Brenner:

Exactly.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you're actually. There is. The ground is being created. I don't know. Created fertile, I suppose. Yeah. Which is that whole. And there's a cyclical nature to it as well, because you get pregnant, you have your pregnancy, you give birth, and then most people, or many people will do it again.

Stacy Brenner:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And there's a bit of that also in farming.

Stacy Brenner:

Totally very cyclical, very seasonal. We get, you know, we like to think that we've been doing this for 16 seasons and we've had 16 chances to plant some tomatoes. So we've only really had 16 tries at getting it right. And it's, you know, birth feels similar. You know, you sort of get 1, 2, 5, depending on how many babies you ought to have. And really, is there. There's so many right ways. It's just about getting to a good end result of a healthy baby or a healthy vegetable or nice flower at the end of the process. But the cyclical nature is super appealing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I do like the idea that there's so many right ways.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Because I believe that this is something that we. We all want. We all want the best way, but there's no best way.

Stacy Brenner:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

There's just a really good way, hopefully, for each person.

Stacy Brenner:

Exactly.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So is there also some element of that in working with the families that have their weddings at broad term?

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah, definitely. So we engage with families because they've opted to get married at the farm. And then we engage with them because they've hired us to help them with flowers for their wedding all over Maine and down into Boston, New Hampshire, Vermont. So I find that what my role is is to figure out how to meet them where they are. There's always budget constraints. There's always a vision for what someone imagines it's going to be versus what they have to maybe pare it back to. And then our capacity to kind of meet Them where they are. And then we're always pushing them in sometimes somewhat uncomfortable way for some people, but other, others are quite comfortable with it. To really rethink the vision in terms of what we can provide seasonally from the farm, from the woods in Maine, versus having to buy things in from abroad. So always, always trying to sort of realign the vision so that we can make the design work with what it is that they're looking for and what we can provide from, from our land.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Why flowers? It seems like not everybody makes that choice. I love flowers. I'm very excited that you do flowers. But some people are just like, okay, I'm going to grow this food, I'm going to eat this food. Yeah, it's all about the food.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah, it was. So we were totally drawn to farming from a righteous food perspective, wanting to feed people. We specifically wanted to be CSA farmers and create community around food and farming. And we have been doing that for about 16 years. And this will be the first year that we don't have a produce csa. But the flowers came in because we. Well, let's see. Let me first tell you why we started doing weddings. These two men in Portland, they're both in the theater community, approached us and asked us, this is about 15 years ago, if we would host their wedding. And we were like, well, that sounds fun. Sure, let's do it. And we had a blast. We really, really enjoyed hosting their wedding. And then that kept happening. People kept asking us and we kept hosting weddings. And then the caterers were asking us for food, food for the wedding so that they would have ingredients to prepare for the meal. And then we always were growing flowers on a small scale and people started asking us if we could help them with the flowers for the wedding. And around that time, my second daughter was born, Flora. And I was a little hemmed in to sort of the dooryard area. And so I just started planting crazy amounts of flowers in our yard and. And then they started sort of moving into the field and we had row crops of flowers. And John said, okay, so you gotta fig. Figure out how to sell these flowers because you can't just grow them and like have them sit there. We don't have the, you know, we can't give the labor up and not have a market for the flowers. And we can't give the, you know, the land over to the flowers without having a market. So we just started, started telling people, you know, that we were growing flowers and we had flowers for sale and it was a pretty organic process. And it took a while to sort of grow, but it really event. It's quite. It's taken off and it's become a major component of our operation. But it was kind of by accident. It was definitely not intentional.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Was there anything in your agricultural training at the University of Arizona that pointed you in the direction of flowers?

Stacy Brenner:

Probably the best class I had was as in plant anatomy. And we had to dissect flowers, cut them in half in different cross sections and look at them under the microscope and draw them. So looking at them that closely and all the patterns that repeat themselves in plants and in nature, that's pretty fabulous. But in terms of running a business, I mean, my, My education was pretty science based, so it didn't really prepare me for what I actually do, which is I'm a small business owner, so the farming piece is an element of it. But mostly what I'm doing is functioning as a businesswoman and trying to promote the business and manage employees and all of those things. So I wish that I had had more business classes in college, but I feel like I could describe soil structure really well and soil chemistry and plant anatomy and physiologic plant physiology. But beyond that, I. I couldn't. I didn't leave college knowing how to operate a tractor or, you know, how to cultivate or any of those things. But I did have a fun job as an orchid caretaker, which I enjoyed quite a bit. For a professor who had a private orchid collection, he was a. He was a. He would travel the world and bring species back and breed different species. And so I'd go spend time in his greenhouses and take care of his plants. And that was pretty special.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, that. That sounds great because I personally have, I think, caused the demise of multiple orchids. And it's actually a very interesting process to try to, I guess, nurture these orchids along and get them to bloom. Yeah, if that's the goal. I don't know if that's even the goal. Maybe just to keep them happy in their plant selves, I guess.

Stacy Brenner:

Or keep them green. Keep them green.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I managed to do that most of the time. But.

Stacy Brenner:

But the Bree bloom is where you struggle.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. Yeah.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah. They like a pretty particular climate, most of them. And so what you're essentially trying to do is mimic that the bathroom with the, you know, steam from the shower is a really good spot, but they like a nice diffuse, bright light and they like humidity.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Right? Yeah. And you don't. Not, not all bathrooms have that.

Stacy Brenner:

Right. Well, and if you live in an old Farmhouse in Maine. You probably have a pretty cold bathroom. Unless you're in the shower.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. No, this is true. Well, I don't feel as badly now that. And I actually have an orchid that's rebloomed again now. So. What am I saying? Sometimes it just works out.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But there is something that. What you're saying is. Yes. To be able to take what you feel drawn to and. And then actually work it into a life. There are complications of that, of course. You don't necessarily have the business background, but you're still describing to me this interest in dissecting flowers and the repeating patterns. And you're still describing to me this interest in birth and that process and making that into something practical. So that transformation, it seems like as difficult as it's been, has been worthwhile.

Stacy Brenner:

Oh, yeah, definitely. I wouldn't change it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Are you one of your children, I believe is older? 21.

Stacy Brenner:

Correct.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Emma is 21 and Flora is 10.

Stacy Brenner:

10.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, over this process, what has Emma

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

learned by watching you?

Stacy Brenner:

Well, she's a junior in the nursing program at usm and she's pretty drawn to women's health. She's taught me a lot about intersectional feminism in the last few years. So we've lots of thoughtful discussions about, you know, and when I was in college, it was women's studies, but now it's Women and Gender studies. So that's pretty fabulous and exciting. So it's interesting. I find I learn more from her these days than I imagine she learns from me. And she. She's going to kill me. She came home the other day and she told me that her. She was going on and on and on about how she wants to be a sex ed teacher. And that was pretty exciting and fabulous, but I felt myself blushing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Even with your background as a real life? Yes.

Stacy Brenner:

Yes. But that was very exciting. Why were you. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't know, but it was very exciting. But I think she. It's interesting. Over the last few years, a lot of her friends have come to us looking for farm apprentice positions and have been interested in being a part of the farm. So she. I think this is pretty common for most small businesses, family businesses, but she doesn't work in our business. She doesn't want to work for us. She doesn't want us to be her employers. In a pinch, I can get her to help me out with something if we're in a real tough moment and things are wild. But she. She has a great appreciation for the food we produce and for the meals that we're able to make from the farm. And she's pretty excited to have her friends around on the farm and it's I think increased her appreciation to see her friends and her peers excited about the work that's happening and around local agriculture in Maine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It seems like that's actually pretty common, that our kids will appreciate us, but they appreciate us even more through the lens of their friends.

Stacy Brenner:

Exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I have also a 21 year old daughter and also having, obviously you and I have somewhat parallel paths. You know, I had my son when I was in medical school and so I have definitely been a working mother and work outside the home, I need to say, because all mothers are working mothers, all parents are working parents. But my entire life I have never not done these things. And now my 21 year old, who also has a gender studies co major, she is telling me stuff and having conversations with me and bringing stuff up and I'm thinking, oh, that's so interesting. Like it's, it all circles back around again.

Stacy Brenner:

Totally. Yeah, it's very exciting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And the perspectives, yeah, you know, the perspectives have shifted in the last two decades. Imagine that.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah. So, and the, the one thing I didn't realize, no one told me and I'm so excited because I have another chance at it with my 10 year old, is that if you can brave those adolescent years and hold on tight and maintain the communication and the relationship as best as possible and sometimes you feel like you're not, you're like you're banging your head against the wall. But on the flip side, when they reach 21, 22, you know, you have this friend and this adult that you enjoy having for dinner and having a conversation with and, and your time with your adult child is going to be so much, have so much more longevity than when, you know, when they're 10 for a minute and they're 11 for a minute and they're, you know, 15 to 17 for a minute, those years are so much shorter than the relationship you have with your adult child and your adult child from, in my experience comes out more like their 10 year old self, they sort of lose that adolescent bravado and start shedding away and they come back and the essence of who they are is back. And that's pretty special and exciting and I wish someone told me that because I think I would have been appreciated the ride of adolescence a little more if I knew that on the other side there was this gift of a adult child that you really enjoyed Being with.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. I mean, I have three kids and my youngest is 16, and I had nine younger brothers and sisters, and I think I had a sense of that. But I think while you're going through it, there's just. It really doesn't matter what somebody tells you.

Stacy Brenner:

Right. You just have to kind of, like,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

dig it and show up and be willing to ride the storm a little bit. But, you know, I think there's something that you're saying that's bringing something up for me, and that is that typically adolescence has this very specific, I guess, juju around it in our culture that we all believe that all teenagers have to be rebellious and they're all going to slam their doors on us and that we should just leave them alone and they're all going to, I don't know, do the things that, quote, teenagers do. But I actually disagree with that. I actually think it is possible. Teenagers are very difficult, but it is possible to hang in there. It is possible to have an ongoing relationship, and I agree with you that you can get to the other side and have this really wonderful relationship with another adult that happens to have been your child.

Stacy Brenner:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah.

Stacy Brenner:

And I don't think they want you to leave them alone.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think that's true.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah. They want to know that they can push this boundary and they're gonna hit it and. And then some, you know, someone's going to come back and give them feedback and check in with them and be present for them, but they don't want to hit the boundary and then just keep, you know, they don't want to. They don't want to hit it and keep going. They want to hit something and feel secure and stable and know that and that. That there's. There's home.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, yes, I absolutely agree with that. I mean, there is something about what we're describing which is also related to farming and growth, which is this investment, you know, this ongoing investment in things like soil or in employees or in relationships with people who come to the farm. I mean, it really is. There's a persistence that's needed in any of those situations.

Stacy Brenner:

Right, right. Yeah. Soil is really interesting. I think that's a great topic. What we're learning about soil management and especially with organic farming, but with all farming, is that there is this fabulous layer at the top of the soil for first couple inches where you have this really rich soil microbial environment, and you really want to manage that environment as well as possible, because that's what allows for all of the nutrient absorption to really happen. Well, and for moisture retention in your soil and for your soil structure to stay strong. And so tending to that for many years builds the nicest, thickest, richest soil microbial environment that you can find. And that's what really yields strong and successful farms, because they tend that soil well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And do you notice, over time, differences in, say, your flowers?

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah. So it's interesting. We have different kinds of ways that we produce different crops based on how, how we're planting it, whether it's going in direct seed, or whether we're starting it as a transplant in the greenhouse and then transplanting it out into the field. Some of our fields get covered with a thin layer of plastic on the row where the plant is going to be planted. And then in the walkways, we layer so neighbors and landscapers drop the fall leaves off for us. And then we'll mulch those walkways with the leaves. And we've come up with a system that we can mechanize with some large farm equipment. And that way we're not asking people to take wheelbarrows down the field, which is what had initially been happening. And so under both the plastic and the leaf mulch layers, you're not disturbing the soil, so you're really allowing that microbial environment to develop. So every time you weed or scratch or till or do anything with that first layer, you're disturbing that environment. So you wouldn't do it as infrequently as possible. And so the flowers are all grown primarily on that model. And that field is just as rich as can be. It has a really nice high organic matter level. And it always seems, when we do the soil test each year, it always seems to come back pretty optimum conditions. And so that's exciting. Versus some other fields where we manage where it's on bare soil and we're weeding and cultivating and scratching the surface to kind of keep the weeds down. And with minimal tillage, we're able to still manage a nice soil microbial environment in those fields. But the ones that are covered and mulched are far superior.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I feel like you and I have a lot of things we could talk about, but I need to throw out a question about compost, because everybody knows who listens to the show knows that I love compost. I'm a huge fan of compost. How about compost on your farm?

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah, so we got big on compost. A few years ago, we got an NRCS cost share grant to put in a cement pad, so that way we can minimize runoff of nutrients on the compost pad. So the pad gets layered with anything nitrogenous. So any poo poo from the cows and the sheep. We keep a couple dairy cows that we milk for a family and then we do buy in some chicken manure and we'll mix that with these leaves that we're getting from neighbors and landscapers along with any vegetable scraps. Like yesterday, we cleaned out our walk in cooler from the winter from storage crops that had started to go by. So all that gets mixed in. So you want this really great balance between carbon and nitrogen so that you're getting a really hot pile. And for an organic, certified compost material, you need to heat that up three times and turn it. You're turning it and heating it three times in order to make sure that the entire pile has reached temperature and that you've killed off any pathogens that could be dangerous. So the interesting thing about compost that people don't talk about is finished compost will be cool, it will have cooled down. And it is a product that can add organic matter to your soil. So it adds fluff. And then that gives you more capacity to hold nutrients and it gives you more capacity to hold moisture. But when it's cool, it means that the nutrients are gone because you burned them off. So you actually don't have much left in the way of nitrogen or phosphorus or potassium in that compost. You might have some micronutrients, but what you're adding is organic matter. So you're fluffing your soil up and you're adding an environment that makes it really favorable for your soil microbes to grow. So what you want to do is you want to fluff your soil up and then you want to be able to add whatever fertility you're going to add. And so if you're using unfinished compost or, you know, it's still a little bit hot, or you're going to put manure on your field, there's for organic certification, there's a waiting period for when you can harvest your crops so that you're not exposing your customer to any potential pathogens. So based on whether you put a finished compost product down or one that's still a little bit hot, so we use both. And depending on what the crop is that we're growing, how many, how long the waiting, like lettuce, for example, we can't use anything hot because it's growing right on the soil. And the way it's a fast grower, herbs like a cilantro or dill or something like that. So more compost based product with a granular fertilizer, organic fertilizer.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well now I'm very glad I asked that question because I have learned something even more about compost.

Stacy Brenner:

I think the industrial compost programs that are popping up around southern Maine are super exciting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I completely agree. Anybody who's not composting has no excuse now because they make it very, very easy.

Stacy Brenner:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, Stacy, I am excited to have had this conversation with you. It makes me want to go over to your farm and when the flowers start growing, be right there to pick them. I love flowers. So I encourage people to look into the work that you are doing at Broad Term Farm in Scarborough. I've been speaking with Stacy Brenner who along with her husband John Bliss and two daughters lives in Scarborough. Actually one daughter. She's still living with you?

Stacy Brenner:

Oh yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Still living with you. She is great.

Stacy Brenner:

She likes the food too much to leave.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, that doesn't surprise me at all. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate your coming in here today and having this conversation and good luck with your growing season.

Stacy Brenner:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

it is my pleasure today to have in the studio Mike Moynidatta, co founder of the Portland based Rwanda Bean Co. Along with Nick Mazerowski. The company buys coffee beans from coffee farmers in rwanda and invests 50% of its profits back into the communities from which it sources the coffee. Thank you for coming in today.

Mike Mwenedata:

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Why did you become interested in coffee?

Mike Mwenedata:

That's a good question. Coffee back home is the first product that the country export and 85% of population there lives on agriculture. So everyone who really needs some people who need like some kind of resources of income, they get involved in coffee. So when I moved to United States. I didn't know that coffee is business like I saw. So seeing how people come in the shop from 6am to 7pm spending four bucks or two cup of coffee and I keep wondering why people back home, they are still poor if one coffee cup can feed the whole family back home. So that really hit me hard and that's how I started figuring out what is missing and why really they are poor over there if everyone who needs money get involved in the coffee. So that's how the idea came in,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

in Rwanda, do people drink a lot of the coffee?

Mike Mwenedata:

No. Really? They drink tea.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

They drink tea.

Mike Mwenedata:

So coffee and coffee is the first product to export and tea is the second. So most of people, they don't drink coffee. They drink tea and I didn't drink coffee until I get here. So they don't really drink tea. Sometimes, I mean, they don't drink coffee. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. And as you know, the final product is too expensive. So sometimes some of them, if a cup is like a dollar or something, that's a lot of money for them to spend unless they can get so dependent to prepare themselves to get the cup. So otherwise to go to the shops and spend that money to buy the cup, it's too expensive, I would say. But tea is easier, it's cheap. So I think that's why most of them drink tea.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So in Rwanda people also grow tea?

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah, we grow tea.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What type of tea is grown over there?

Mike Mwenedata:

It's a black tea.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You grew up in Rwanda?

Mike Mwenedata:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you came to Maine when?

Mike Mwenedata:

Seven years ago?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Seven or eight years ago, yeah. Why Maine?

Mike Mwenedata:

That's a good question. When I moved here, when I immigrated here, I was in Boston. And then after that I moved to Maine. When I was working a place to go to school, I was looking some school that are affordable and man, when I keep looking was the one state that I can maybe start with. And beside that I were in contact also with some other African. I like soccer, so one I came with a group for guys to play soccer here and I made connection and we start talking like that. So I think here in Maine was easier to connect with people because of the community. And down there it's big city, you don't see that much people going around. I think there is so many resources up here that people get connected with others easily done in Boston. So when I moved here I loved it and then I stayed.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Do you still play soccer?

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah, I do play soccer twice a week.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Twice a week?

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Why did you leave Rwanda?

Mike Mwenedata:

You know, we had the history and the history it was somehow affected some people in any ways. So some people don't have family. They are still looking a place where they can start life. Some other people are struggling with the post genocide conflict that were still going on. So there were so many reasons that people can leave the country. So it was one of that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what about your family? How was your family impacted?

Mike Mwenedata:

My family. They died in the genocide.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Your family all died as a result of the genocide?

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah, I just. It's A wrong story.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's terrible.

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah, they died.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you came here because you needed to have a new life.

Mike Mwenedata:

Tell you, you know, I think I would say sometimes when you grow up, you start looking the opportunity based on maybe your history, what you gonna do. So sometime when you get a chance, you grab it. So it was one of those chance, and then I grabbed it and now I'm here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you're working towards your MBA at the University of Southern Maine.

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah, it's not easy. It's tough because, you know, when you move here, speaking another language and then you try to get education in language you didn't grow up with, speaking, which is in high education. So it requires so much resources and you have to focus. So I think education was in the family growing up. Education was a really big thing in our families. So I remember my dad used to say that you can lose everything in life people can take because whatever was going on with the conflict, people lose their jobs, people lose their homes. And he always say, you know, we can struggle, but when you go to, to school, you can start over and try to. So I never lose that focus. And that's why also in the percentage as we grow, we're gonna be giving back to the farmers. The operation of it is gonna be to help other kids over there to go to school.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So the 50% of the profits from your company, that's part of what you're hoping to accomplish.

Mike Mwenedata:

There is so many things to accomplish with that 50%, because sometimes people don't know how value $1, what impact $1 can make over there. So with that 50%, we are looking to find a way to help farmers to be more sustainable, help them get connected to this market, produce a good quality of the beans, but also help them improve their lives. So that includes some of them. Even if, if they are in a coffee business, they can't afford to send kids to school. So sometimes those farmers, their children are relying just on that coffee business. And so that means if they can afford to go to school when they grow up, after they finish elementary school or high school, they, they start helping their parents and somehow they end up in that way. And the country is trying to, is coming over whatever the tragedy they went through. And they try to develop the business where everyone is involved. And I believe education is one key to help the country, society grow more. And I think education can reduce that 85% of population relying on subsistence agriculture, create more jobs. And so it's just the beginning. But I hope one step, one small step can Take you to a big step. So it's a beginning and you want to see it to grow and see where it takes us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when you go to a coffee shop and you see somebody spending at least $4 for a cup of coffee, and you know that $4 back in

Mike Mwenedata:

Rwanda can feed the whole family, feeds

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

the whole family a day for a whole day.

Mike Mwenedata:

And then maybe someone is spending, is buying two cups a day. So that's like mirror today. That's how I try just picturing. And then I'm like, how can I sell more coffee so than I can

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

so you can spend more, send more dollars over.

Mike Mwenedata:

We don't focus just on giving back because you also buy the beans at a premium price. So because we are not buying through the middlemen. So we bringing in the beans direct from them, so in. But the whole system is to help them. Some of the farmers don't have access to the resources they need to be able to provide the final product. That which is the beans we bring here because they can't afford it. So with the structure of our business of giving back, we gonna be building those kind of resources that is owned by those co ops, those farmers. So that means even if we can't buy all their products because we don't have the market yet, but they can still not selling the beans as cherries. They can sell the beans as a final product. So that means at least we are bringing value to their products. So that's the whole thing. That's the program that we're trying to accomplish. We're still figuring out how to make it happen. But I believe this is our third year and I believe we have learned. Because when I came in coffee business, I didn't know anything about coffee. So I run every day, every day. I speak to them every day. So I speak to people who drink coffee. I know people want like really good coffee here and I know people love to feel like what they are spending is getting back really to the roots. Where does the produce, where does the product they are eating or drinking come from? So I try to be like a bridge that connect those farmers and the consumers and see where it takes us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Where is your coffee sold now?

Mike Mwenedata:

We are online on our website. So people can buy the beans on roasted coffee on our website and then you ship to them. We are also, we do wholesales in local stores like Scratch Bakery in South Poland, the Farm Stand in South Poland, Roris Natural Market, both Poland and Scarborough. The iron cheese in Scarborough. Cheese iron.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Oh, the cheese iron in Scarborough.

Mike Mwenedata:

Yes. We Are new Aurora provision in West End. AC store up here on Washington Ave, Arabica in few restaurants. We are Evo, the King's Head. So we are in those small shops around the city, but we hope to expand it as we grow.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Your co founder is Nick Mazurowski.

Mike Mwenedata:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And are the two of you responsible for getting the coffee into the wholesale locations or into the restaurants? Are you the ones who are convincing people to put their. Put your coffee out there?

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah, we, we go. There we go. They are door by door. We talk to them. We use, we have a few tools that we use media and we try to get the order so. And then we know the coffee is really good. So we know when it gets in their hands, at least there is a big chance they will have it. So we try just to get the word out and see what happens.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Once people try the coffee, they'll keep buying the coffee.

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah, because what we focus on is the quality first and then all other things comes after. Because we want, if we want you to drink coffee and we want you to have impact, first you want to make sure you are drinking good coffee and then you feel good about what you're doing with it. So once we get the coffee day, our job is done. We are waiting to see if you really want to keep drinking it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How many other people work in your company?

Mike Mwenedata:

By now I will say it will be me and Nick. But we, most of our jobs we hire like third party contracts as we hire agencies and companies to do some of our job. Until we have been focusing much on business development, on brand development. So I think now we are working on expanding the team and bringing in more skills people in areas where we need it, where we need to, then working from there.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How many farmers do you work with in Rwanda?

Mike Mwenedata:

Right now we are working around 300 to 400.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And these are farmers that work within a cooperative?

Mike Mwenedata:

Yes, that's one co op.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's one co op.

Mike Mwenedata:

Yeah. In one region. So we had to start. There is more than 200,000 farmers in Rwanda and coffee farmers. And Rwanda, it's a small country, it's a third of men. So you can feed three Rwandans. Three Rwanda country instead of men. But it's 13 times population. So men have 1.3 population. Rwanda has 13 million. So you can imagine if you're working with 300 coffee farmers, that's a small number compared how small countries and how overpopulated is. So that's just one small region. That's one co op. But I always get calls, text message, from people from Rwanda asking if we can work. I just fly back from Seattle to the coffee expo, the world, the oldest coffee expo. And I was lucky to meet with people from Rwanda who are there to. Talk about their coffee, to talk about the product. And so I got a chance to meet with all of them and everyone is like, how can we work together? So that really shows you the inability to access to the market. And I think finding a way to connect them to the market will be a good way to improve what they do. And see the magic happens.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How much coffee are you able to bring into Maine and the United States right now?

Mike Mwenedata:

So we don't do like big scales, as I told you, focusing on brand development, but we have access to the inventory, we have a warehouse. So we have been focusing on bringing in the quantity of the bins that we are able to move. But we can bring like containers and containers. We just still working on the access to the market. Coffee business is very competitive market and it takes time people to start trusting your brand and to start knowing you are out there to know your quality. So I think we are moving towards to bring in as much as we can as grow the market as much as we can. We are right now we are getting involved in a few products. So we are launching like a cord brew that is gonna be in borough. So that's another piece of the market that we are bringing in. So if that increase the quantity that we really want to bring in, then that's how we trying to work step by step.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What have you learned through your MBA studies that you've been able to apply to your coffee company?

Mike Mwenedata:

I have learned maybe how I would say to be professional, but I wouldn't say that what I did, what I'm doing, I learned from the mba. What I'm doing comes from my heart. I think that's what I really wanted to do. It wasn't. I wasn't even thinking about like owning a company. I just, when I saw the coffee situation, I just say I will when I want to do something. So either from school, but it comes. It's not, I. I will say it's not like skills that I learned in school that I'm applying to the business. Business. No, it is just things I love to do. I like to do something socially that have impact to people and makes me feel good and I like to be connected with people. So for me will be amazing to see the company succeed by connecting people here and people back home and see good things happen. So. And that is not something I learned from school. It's just I love people and I want to do something to improve their lives. So I want to provide good coffee to people who love drinking coffee. But I also wanna do amazing things to people who grow that coffee. So that's. But you still need to know how to navigate your numbers and the policies and taxes. So those are where the score comes in. So I will say it's a compliment. It's not just saying you good or at what you do. But sometimes there is some things you have to run when you want to throw the rose. And so those are stuff you have to get educated on. And I think I will say just having do things doesn't say you do it right. So you always have to comply with the roles and the what you are not doing. Make sure it all flows together. So I will say education comes in and complement what I try to do. And I will say it's all vice versa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So your father was right about education that it's important. It's not everything, but it is something that once you have it, nobody can take it away from you and it'll become what it needs to be in your life.

Mike Mwenedata:

The reason why my father will say that he was. He was really hard on us when it comes to education. So if you don't have a good grade he will really yelling at you. But he want to show you he's not like yelling at you because he just want you to perform well. He just want to show you how important is dedication. And I believe in that. I believe education is a good tool for people to have. And it's important one because I think it opens up your mind and to see the to analyze what is going on but also enable you to do to be an employer or employee of something. So you will see when there is no any application where even if it's serving in the restaurant or it's always asked to have you will sometime when I read them they say at least you need to have it in high school. So you will see there is. There is always something you have to learn from school. And I can second my dad saying that education is something that is important. And I think he was right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I have been speaking with Mike Mwanudata who is the co founder of the Portland based Rwanda Bean Co. Which buys coffee from coffee farmers in rwanda and invests 50% of its profits back into the communities from which the coffee was sourced. Good job with what you're doing. I appreciate all the hard work you're putting into this and I thank you for coming in today.

Mike Mwenedata:

I really appreciate the opportunity you guys gave me and thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have been listening to Lovemain radio show number 301, farming flowers and Cultivating Coffee. Our guests have included Stacey Brenner and Mike Wanedata.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

For a preview of each week's show,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

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Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Thank you for allowing me to be

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.

[Unidentified voice]:

I've taken down your pictures you gave me back my key I threw away the gifts that you had bought for me but what's the use I still can't sleep cause I'm drowning in the thought of you I can't keep my head up above the sea I used to think you'd come about but now I got it figured out I am giving up the life the memories of you and I Too much crying on my pillow Too much staring out the window I'll be moving on cause you're already gone I tried to make it up to you there's nothing I can say or doing Too much thinking about my problems Too much wishing I could solve them it's just too much for me to bear it's just too much for me to bear. I'm keeping myself busy to take you off my mind but late at night when I lay down the pillow? Still remind me of the truth? The awful truth? I can think of anything? And find a way to bring it back to you? I wonder if you think of? But I presume you're angry?

Mike Mwenedata:

If you do.

[Unidentified voice]:

Too much crying on my pillow? Too much staring out the window? I'll be moving on? Cause you're already gone? I tried to make it up to you? There's nothing I can say? You're doing much thinking about my problem? Too much wishing I could solve them? It's just too much for me to bear? It's just too much for me to.