Father’s Day #144

Chris Kast:

The most ultimate joy is being able to sit back as a father and watch these four girls go on their merry ways. Being able to just play a part in this. That's what it's about for me.

Christian Townsend:

I look up to my dad with so much admiration. He is the hardest worker I know, unbelievably smart and dedicated to me to succeed. I am trying to instill as much in my children that I can from what I've learned from my dad.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast Show Number 144, Father's Day, airing for the first time on Sunday, June 15, 2014. What does it mean to be a father? There are as many answers to this question as there are men who have taken on this role. Today we speak with Chris Kast, brand strategist with BrandCo and Christian Townsend of CT Marine, about the influences their fathers have had upon their professional lives and upon their own fatherhood. Our interview with Chris touches upon some deeply personal issues. We were moved by his willingness to share his story. You won't want to miss it. Thank you for joining us. It is one of my great joys to be able to have conversations in this space, in the studio space with dear friends of mine. And I have no dearer friend than Chris Kast, who is the brand strategist at the Brand Company, which is a part of the Maine Media Collective where where we tape our show. Chris and his husband Byron live in Portland and between them have four daughters. Chris and I have intersected so many times in so many different ways I can't even begin to say, but it is such a joy to have you here. So thank you.

Chris Kast:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And Chris, you I think that if it weren't for you, we wouldn't have the doctoralisa Radio Hour in so Many ways, you've been a big part of what we've done. You have been here since before the beginning. You helped us set up our studio space. You've helped us really be so much of what we are.

Chris Kast:

Yeah, it's been a joy. I mean, I can't take any credit for that, except it's part of a team and it's part of what we do. When something comes together and it just feels right, we just tend to do stuff here, and it's great. And along the way, we stumble and fall and go, whoops, brush off, and keep going. And that's one of the joys of being part of this whole collective, this part of this journey, both personally and professionally.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you are a big part of the Maine Media Collective. Maine Media Collective, for people who are listening, who may not know, is Maine Magazine. Maine Home Design, Old Port Magazine, Art Collector, Main. All the guides Eat Main, the gallery at the grand, the gallery at the grand, the upcoming gallery here in Portland,

Chris Kast:

and of course, the brand Company.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And. Well, we already talked about that. I don't want to slight them, but part of what you do is so much bigger than just helping create ads. You know, your team does the ads for the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour. But really how I came to know you professionally was you helping me understand as a physician what kind of a physician I was, and helping to understand as a radio show what kind of radio show we are. I mean, you really help people dig into who their authentic selves are. And I think that part of why you're so good at this is because you've had to work very hard to get to your own authentic self.

Chris Kast:

Yeah, I have a lot of hard work.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been on the show before, so I know we've talked about you doing the. I think you were doing. It wasn't a tough mudder.

Chris Kast:

It was. It was the Dynamic Dirt Challenge.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The Dynamic Dirt Challenge about a year ago somewhere. And today is this air as you're going to be going out doing the trek across Maine with another group of people. So you're very active in that sort of way. You have a lot of friends in the community, but your life has changed pretty dramatically. I mean, the person that you were when you first came to Maine and the life that you had when you first came to Maine looks very different.

Chris Kast:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Than the one that you have now.

Chris Kast:

It looks very different. And it feels very different. It feels very different because it feels more real. I feel more connected to it. And it's. You know, when I came to Maine I was married to a woman and I had a young baby. She was six months old. She's 26 now. People do the math. And I was living what appeared to be a great life. We had a house in Cape Elizabeth. I had a great wife, I had a kid, I had a growing career. But something wasn't right. And I always knew it, but something wasn't right. And the more I tried to make it right, the more it felt not right. And that not right was being gay in a very heterosexual world, in the world that I lived in. And it took me a very long time. And it was. I was married 16 years when I came out. And

Christian Townsend:

that was

Chris Kast:

outside of losing my parents and my ex's parents. That was probably one of the most difficult things I've ever done. And I had to do it for my own self and, you know, to find out who I was, not to find out who I was, because I knew who I was, but to really be who I was. And it was difficult on so many levels. It was hard because I first had to really admit what I'd always known to myself. And then I had to actually say the words out loud to someone whom I cared deeply for and loved. And in the course of a 15 minute conversation on a night in August in 1999, I shattered a world. And it was horrible. And that's the word for it. Ellen, who is now one of my dear friends, her world flipped over at that point. I had two kids and they didn't know it, but their world was about to flip over. And my world flipped over. And I didn't know where up was, had no clue. But in an odd sense, that next day, it was a Sunday, we had gone through the paces. One of my daughter, Blake, had a friend over and we took her for a bike ride and went through the whole. Went through the motions and went out, had a barbecue. And I went out and just laid on the hammock after the dishes were done, just stared up into the sky, just having. Feeling numb, having no clue what was to come next. And Ellen came out. She sat down on the hammock next to me. She said, can I sit here? And I said, please. And the question was, what next? And neither one of us knew. But at that moment, things started to settle. And I'm not gonna lie to say that the years, the journey to get to where we are, or where I am right now, lo these years later, wasn't difficult. It was worth it. As far as, when I think back, the only real sorrow that I carry with me is the hurt that I caused. And it's, it's, it's sorrow. And I, I, and I choose that word carefully because, you know, some people, you know, there's this thing about, you know, people think, do you have regrets? And if I regretted it, I wouldn't be who I am today. So I don't regret who I am today. I just have sorrow for the sadness that I've caused. But that sadness has healed and we're able to laugh about it. And something very powerful happened to me. It was when Blake is now going on to her second master's degree. It was interesting. Two things. We lived in a small town, we lived in Cape Elizabeth. And you know, things have a tendency to swirl around small towns. And Ellen and I had an agreement that when the gossip started to flow up to her, one of us would tell the kids. And Ellen called me one November afternoon. She said, I'm sorry, but I had to tell them because I started to hear things and I was great. I wasn't great with it, but I was like, well, okay. And I got them on the phone and I said, do you know the show Will and Grace? Well, I'm like, Will. And that made it okay for them because Ellen and I had separated. But it made them realize that it wasn't because mom and dad didn't like each other anymore. It was because it just didn't work. And fast forward a few years when Blake was applying for colleges. People kept asking me friends and you know, her college counselor, did you read Blake's essay? Did you read Blake's essay? And said no. And I asked her and she said, you can't read it. You can't read it until I get accepted into a college and then accept where I'm going to go to college. So I said, okay, this is going to be good. And she got accepted to Grinnell, decided she was going to go Grinnell, and she sent me her essay. It was a one page essay, and I'm going to paraphrase it, but it was the story of when her mom told her and her sister that I was gay or that I am gay. And it starts off, it was a dark, you know, it was a gray November day in Maine, and my sister and I were at home after school having a snack. And my mom said, kids, there's something I have to tell you about your father. And in her essay she said, I immediately thought that she was going to tell me he had cancer. And she said, you, dad is gay. And essentially she was like, she was waiting for the bad news. And she said during that time, people in cape kept asking her, are you okay? Are you okay with this? And her essay went on to say, I don't know what they were talking about. My dad was still the loud obnoxious jerk at the sidelines screaming for me. He was wearing Converse high tops where everybody else was wearing their bass legions. He was there with a big smile on his face. He was always there and still is always there. And 10 years ago, would I have wanted my family to be anything but? It was? No. But today, would I want my family to be anything other than it is? Absolutely not. And that it's hard for me not to tear up right now because. And that really made it okay for me. It made me realize that the journey that I went on was worth it. Because she and her sister Emma are probably two of the strongest, most self directed, most self assured human beings in my world. And I know this played a part in it. Was it the perfect childhood? Absolutely not. Did I miss a lot of time with them? Yeah, but it's paying itself back right now on so many levels.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I know that one of the things that you had to struggle with before you came out was your relationship with your father. And you've been talking about as a father, your relationship with your children. And you talked about this sorrow that you felt that somehow you had kind of rent a wound in their world. But this was a sorrow that came prepackaged. This is a sorrow that was already yours. You were an altar boy, you grew up in New York, and it was always very difficult for you to talk to your dad.

Chris Kast:

Yeah. Yeah. I can't ever really remember having a heart to heart, heartfelt conversation with him. And I think that's really sad. You know, I have an older brother who's an awesome human being. I have an older sister who's an awesome human being. And I have a younger brother who's an awesome human being. But being the third of four and being the middle son, I know in my heart that by the time I came along and I was different, you know, I was not interested in sports, I was not interested in normal boy stuff. I tried to fake it. And I think, you know, there's a saying in the gay community that mom knows. I think, you know, somehow mom knew, and I think somehow my dad knew I was different. I didn't know what that meant, but there was no time for me. The things I remember is Christopher, don't you know when to stop heat? Introducing to his friends as A joke as a cpa, a constant pain in the ass. And even I loved my father. I can say that, truthfully, I don't think I liked him very much. And I don't think I liked him very much because the way I was treated and there are specific incidences that, you know, happened that shocked me, you know, that. But it was because I think to a lot of degrees, he didn't take the time to understand me, and nor did I really, I don't think, take the time to understand him. And that is rough. But I've come to terms with it. And I know that, you know, in my heart, he did the best that he could do, just as I'm doing the best he could do. But what I've learned is to do, to work harder at the connection, to read the clues. I mean, you know, one of the things. Blake wrote me a letter on my 50th birthday that basically ended. You know, sometimes people use daddy's little girl's pejorative. I wear it as a badge. And, you know, she's a teacher in New York City. She calls me every morning on the way to school, and we talk. Her sister Emma is always Snapchatting me, texting me. We chat. It's the way we communicate. We stay in touch. It's really pretty special, you know, and my husband, Byron, I know he went through a similar journey. And you know, his two daughters, my stepdaughters, Emily and Olivia, they're both connected. And, you know, the four girls, they kind of are cut from the same bolt of cloth. You put them all in a blender, you pour them out, you know, they're going to be the same person, except for, of course, Olivia, who is quite the girly girl in the ballerina. But they call each other sisters, and that's a special connection, too. So, yeah, you know, it's one of the things, again, a sorrow that I feel is that I never really had that connection with my dad. But. But like I said, to a certain degree, it's a gift that I'm able to be the dad I want to be. I mean, as a little kid, dad, I'm a horrible human being. I mean, babies scare the daylights out of me. I am not gonna lie about that. I'm gonna break it. Sorry, my bad. But as a father, for growing and grown children, that's the biggest gift ever, and I take great joy and take great pride in it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Here on the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast, we've long recognized the link between health and. And wealth Here to speak more on the topic is Tom Shepard of Shepherd Financial.

Chris Kast:

My sister in law just got back from sailing across the Atlantic. Calm seas and smooth sailing. It's something I can confidently say we all want in our lives, especially our financial lives. That concept of smooth sailing is very close to what I refer to as the fifth stage of financial evolution. When we reach that stage, you feel more secure and confident. You've successfully leveraged your resources to improve your life and feel more energized and have a good relationship with your money. Your investments generate income and you've got more time to spend freely. You've learned how to enjoy your money and life is flowing smoothly. And because evolution is a constant, you keep sailing forward and growing toward the next stage. You feel good about it. So what stage are you in? To learn more about the stages, go to www.shepherdfinancialmain.com securities offered through LPL Financial

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I actually have no concerns about you as a future probable grandfather. I know it's not gonna happen anytime soon.

Chris Kast:

Thank you for that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But I'm pretty sure you'll figure out the baby thing at some point in the not too distant future. Be that as it may, I also think that shame for you, I mean there is the shame over being gay and being gay in a Catholic family. The altar boy, you know, trying to be the child that's already considered to be the pain in the ass, I guess. But you had a deeper shame and this is one that was incredibly difficult for you to carry and one that I don't think many people who know you know about.

Chris Kast:

No, very few people know. And I'm not even certain I've told my brothers and sisters. I know I haven't told. Well, I will have by the time the show airs, have told my kids I was molested as a child. I was 13 years old and I was taken. It was a man and it was one of those situations where I know where you live. So if you don't meet me at this place this time of the evening, I will tell your parents and he would drive by the house when I'd Be outside raking with my father or something and beep and wave, slow down. And my father would say, well, who's that? And I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The thing was, I wanted to be able to say something, but I couldn't because I felt the shame. I felt scared. I felt, well, okay. It's all these things going by, knowing when you're that age that you def. You know, I didn't know what gay was, but knowing that I was different, all those things rolled up and I had to carry that with me. And then one, he would send postcards to the house. And then one day when I was supposed to meet him out of fear, he never showed up. And that caused a lot more, oh, what? What's going to happen now? And I lived with that for a lot of years. And I lived with it thinking that it was my fault, I was a target. I brought it on myself. It was all me. It had nothing to do with this human being who was an absolute predator. And it took me till my twenties to actually admit it to someone out loud that this happened. And I told my ex wife that it happened. And I went to therapy, and I had quite a lot of years of therapy trying to understand what it was and what I know, not what I think. What I know is there are two types of people, as I understand it, that come through childhood sexual molestation. There are victims and there are survivors. And the victims let it inform the way they live. I'm a survivor of it. I have a scar and it's well, well healed and well, well covered. And the biggest thing that I think about, the only thing that I really think about when I think back to those days, it's not the shame, it's not the fear. It's the anger. The anger that something was taken from me, the anger that I was able to survive it. But what about the other boys that this guy might have gone after who couldn't handle it and may or may not be alive today? And that is something that I think about. But that said, you know, when I look back on it and, you know, we had this, this great, great meeting not too long ago, our download day, which for people out there, after we upload the magazines, we get together as a group and do a download day where it's basically a big conversation we had. And one of the questions was, and that, you know, Kevin put out there is, what do you expect? What do you want out of life? And, you know, silence in the room. And me being me. I said what I said and I said, I just want to live an authentic life and be able to look the guy in the mirror that's looking at me in the eyes and absolutely and genuinely say, you know, I like you. You're a pretty good guy. And I do. Good, bad or indifferent. You know, I. I know what my faults are. I know what my foibles are. I know that I make mistakes every day, but I know that deep down, I like me and I like who I am, and I like the life I've got. I love my husband. I love our. I love our four kids. I love my ex wife. I love my brothers and my sisters, and I love my friends. And I have a great network of friends. And I've got. I have a lot of friends, but I have a handful of friends where I can just drop every guard. And I count you one of those, Kevin. The people. Some of the people here and the people that are listening to this, you know who you are if you're listening. And that's a joy. And, you know, the most ultimate joy is being able to sit back as a father and watch these four girls go on their merry ways. You know, one's going on to her second master's degree at Brown University. Another one is off to Chiwaki and is hoping to get posted to the Peace Corps in Panama. Emily is in Nepal teaching English to monks and doing, you know, she's helping track elephant migration. Olivia has got a goal board on the room in her bedroom about how she wants to dance with the American Ballet Theater in New York and how she wanted to make the corps de ballet for Portland ballet. Check, check, check. She's in the corps. Being able to just play a part in this, that's what it's about for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Over the course of your life, you've had to completely re examine and redefine what it means to be a man. What you were offered when you were growing up is very different from what you've chosen to accept for yourself.

Chris Kast:

Mm.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Not many people do that. It's a very interesting society in which we live, the way that gender roles are defined.

Chris Kast:

Yeah. Yeah. What's interesting, I had conversation over the years with Blake, who. Her minor was gender and women's studies, which apparently is all the rage. And at one point, she said she didn't believe in gender. And I had to ponder what that meant and meaning that, yeah, I'm a man, but I'm just a human being. And, you know, I'm living this life and you know, there are certain things that I like to do that Byron doesn't like to do. That he does better than I do. In fact, when we got married, legally, yay, Maine. We were interviewed by the Atlantic Monthly and there was a story that's out there, it's online, it's about what heterosexual couples can learn about gender roles from same sex marriages and the woman. The writer asked us, so what's it like in your home? Did you divide chores and. Well, we didn't really. We just kind of gravitated to what we did more naturally. I'm slightly neurotic, a bit of a Felix Unger. I can't really relax until everything's in its place. I'm one that likes to initiate cleaning the house and doing this, and that's just me. But Byron grew up in Maine and can swing a hammer and loves to be outside and do the gardening. So it's just, well, I'll mow the grass, I'll do the gardening. I'll fix that. Okay. We both like to cook. You know, I'm probably doing. We both do the wash, but I'm the first one that's going to be getting it in there and, you know, folding clothes and it's just, it's. But that's just living life. That's not a gender thing. That's just living who we are. You know, we both like sports. He likes show tunes more than I do. But I've been known to sing along. It's paraphrasing, a positioning line for one of our clients. Live your life, be who you are. I'll drink good wine along the way, and every now and then I'll toss in a martini and be good with it. Because as far as I know, we only get one go around this sun. And we have one opportunity to be happy. And that's all I want. And that's all I wish for all my friends. And that's what I see and I want for all my kids.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you figured, you figured it out. What you've needed to figure out, you've figured out as far as being a father and a human being.

Chris Kast:

And I'm still figuring it out. You know, I don't. It's not a stagnation, it's an evolution. And every day I see something. Every day I learn something new about myself. Every day I discover something. And I believe that to a lot of degrees. That's what keeps me so vital. And I don't mean it in an egotistical way. So vital, so young. At heart, I have an incredible curiosity about a lot of things, you know, and I want to be able to feed that curiosity. And there are things about me that I'm not so happy I don't read as much as I should anymore. You know, I need to start reading more. I don't need to. I would like to, you know, I would like to start writing more. But it'll get there. Because it'll get there and it'll happen when it's supposed to happen. You know, it's funny every now and then, you know, I'll be having a bad day. And you know, that phrase, out of the mouths of babes oftentimes comes gems. And my Emma is always right there when I'm saying so she goes, you know, dad, you know, everything just works out the way it's supposed to. You gotta remember that. And she's right, because it does. And I remind her of that as well. So we mind each other and, you know, it's a got your back kind of thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Chris, I know that the people that have worked with you as a brand strategist and people who are your friend, people who will be biking with you today on the trek across Maine, your children. I think that we can universally agree that you are really a gift to all of us. You're a gift to me, and I thank you for sharing your story and for being a part of my life and for being a part of so many people's lives. And happy Father's Day.

Chris Kast:

Thank you and thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As a physician and small business owner, I rely on Marcy Booth from Booth, Maine to help me with my own business and to help me live my own life fully. Here are a few thoughts from Marcy. I feel very fortunate to be a business owner in Maine unlike any other place I can think of. Maine is truly a community of connected people and businesses who really want to see each other succeed. And if my company can play even the smallest part in creating success for my clients, I am very grateful. That's what gets us excited at Booth, helping people see their vision become a reality. I'm Marci Booth. Let's talk about the changes you need. Boothmaine.com

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

it is very interesting to me to have this individual in the studio because I've actually been on a tugboat before, believe it or not, and this individual is one of not that many people in the United States who designs tugboats. This is Christian Townsend, who runs CT Marine, a tugboat design business with his dad. Christian is also a devoted father to two sons. He and his wife Kathy, live near Willard Beach. It's really great to have you in here.

Christian Townsend:

Thank you for inviting me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how many tugboat designers are there in the United States?

Christian Townsend:

A small handful. We develop towboats, which push barges up the Mississippi River, a little different than a tugboat. And my father has. Is kind of the grandfather of towboats. So as far as towboats, there might be one other designer in the country, but he and I do most of them in the country.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's a pretty specialized job.

Christian Townsend:

Very.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how is it that he came to be doing this sort of business? And he's been doing this for 55 years?

Christian Townsend:

Yes.

Chris Kast:

Yeah.

Christian Townsend:

CT Marine is about 55 years old. He started before college, and what happened was he was playing soccer as a young kid. He was hit in the eye and became blind in the eye, and his parents didn't send him back to school for that year. So he sailed, I think, for about a year as a young kid, and then eventually became first mate of the Shenandoah, which is the Black Dog Taverns boat on Martha's Vineyard. And he went back to University of Michigan and helped with their model basin, and then went to the Netherlands for a few years to concentrate more on towboats. And then the rest of the story just kind of evolved. So we. We might have five or six really big clients that we deal with, and they probably operate 95% of the machinery on the Mississippi River. So we've got our fingers in a fair amount of boats on the Mississippi.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, that must have taken some real, I guess, vision and also perseverance on your father's part to find something that he really loved doing and have it not be something that many other people were doing and just dive in there and stick with it and keep going.

Christian Townsend:

Yeah, he's very persistent and very dedicated to naval architecture and to producing boats that are very safe. And so that's his striving goal, and probably for the first 30 years, he made barely enough money to, you know, get us to college and through life. So. My mother's a psychiatrist. She helped a lot in putting food on the table. But it took a very long time for dad to become successful enough to hire people and continue for so long, I guess.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And yet he's still doing this. And he's in his 70s now.

Christian Townsend:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And when you and I were talking, you said that he works probably 70 plus hours a week.

Christian Townsend:

He probably does, yep. Many more than I am working. It's really his ultimate love in life is to design these boats. And so he would certainly do it without any money. And it's probably the first thing he thinks about when he wakes up and the last thing when he goes to sleep is towboats and how to improve them. And so we're working on a lot of innovative technologies to improve further the design, like introducing liquid natural gas to towboats and developing more efficient transportation systems for the Mississippi, which is generally what we just work on, the Mississippi river and all its tributaries.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You grew up in Connecticut?

Christian Townsend:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Did you think you were going to be a towboat designer?

Christian Townsend:

No, this was probably the last thing I thought I was going to do. I went to Purdue University and my parents got a divorce when I was a sophomore. And I kind of used it as an excuse to deviate from working hard at school. And so my grades plummeted and my father asked or told me that if I was going to go to school next year, I had to work for him. And so I just fell into it and it never stopped. Now I couldn't think of doing anything else, but I certainly didn't have it on my horizon while attending Purdue.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how long have you been doing this now?

Christian Townsend:

About 25 years. I was in shipyards with my dad when I was 8, usually sitting in the car because the yard wouldn't let me in because I was too young. So I've been around these boats for 40 years or nearly, but it really wasn't a desire of mine to become a naval architect.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you're still doing it.

Christian Townsend:

And I'm still doing it. And I'll do it until I'm retired if that ever happens. And I hope to have my kids take over. My youngest is a real mathematician, so I think he would be great at it. And my oldest son, Ryder, would probably be great at the design aspect. So I might have one engineer and one designer in the family or hoping.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what is it that has drawn your family specifically it sounds like the male members of your family into designing boats, into naval architecture. I mean, what, what is the. I don't know, what's the siren song?

Christian Townsend:

I think it's just what we've been around. You know, I grew up on Boston Whalers and was running around the Connecticut shores when I was nine by myself on it. So we've always been attached to the water. And both my parents have been self employed since day one. And I've always looked at that with some admiration and enjoy the flexibility. So I think that I just kind of fell into my dad's business one because it provides flexibility and just the love of the water that we've been around our whole lives. I just kind of fell into it. It really isn't something that I desired at all. It just happened. I don't know. I think it really just kind of evolved. And my kids are the same way. They just love the water. I mean, really, my wife does too. And it's just kind of the direction we've headed towards. We actually bought a. We bought a large sailboat a couple years ago to sail down in the Bahamas. It was gonna be our plan to pull the kids out of school for a year or two. And then on a whim, we actually bought some camps up in Moosehead Lake. So the boat's on the market and we've changed gears drastically, but we're still shooting for water if we can get to it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've had a lot of people on the show now, you know, we're going into our fourth year doing this and I don't think we've ever had any group of people who are so consistently passionate about what they do as the people who work on the water, people who are sailors, people who are boaters. We had a woman who runs a tugboat operation. And it's very interesting because it's so consistent and so it's not in an airy, fairy way. People, it's to. It's to their core. People are so connected to the water.

Christian Townsend:

Yeah, I think it is something to the core where you just feel it. One thing I like about the industry, or the towboat industry is it's very, very small. There are 6,000 towboats on the Mississippi river, but they are owned primarily by five or six companies. And there are very few naval architects, there's few engineers in the industry. So it's a. It's a tight group and a small group with everybody very passionate about it. So I'm not. I don't know why it's why people are so passionate about the water. Maybe it is something with, you know, your core. I don't know if I could really answer it, but it's just there.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And there is also this feeling of family that goes beyond, I think, just a father son thing, that people do feel very connected to one another. The sailing community seems very tightly knit, and you might be far flung, but you still will know the person that you met when you were sailing down to the Bahamas. And that's something that I think a lot of people are yearning for these days, deep connection.

Christian Townsend:

My father has sailed to the Bahamas for the last 14 years, and his best friends, for sure, are people that he's met on those journeys. And some of them he might not have seen for 12 years. But he talks to him constantly on his ham radio. And it's a huge part of his life, the connection to the people he's met on the walk, both commercially and sailing, which is his real passion.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it also seems to keep families connected. I mean, what you're describing is being able to work with your father for 25 years. And that's not that usual in this day and age. In this day and age, you don't see a lot of family businesses that not only survive but thrive. And you're so excited about it that you're talking about the next generation.

Christian Townsend:

It's been very rewarding to work with dad, and it's difficult. At the same time, he and I have very different approaches to completing projects where he work consistently for 90 days to get it ready. And I'll hang out on Willard beach for 45 days until I'm very pressured and then hit it. So that has caused quite a few rifts in the last 25 years. The end of the day, we get the project done when it's due, but we do have very different approaches to getting the project done. So it's helped in our. It's really helped in our overall relationship to kind of blend professional life and Christmas parties and stuff at the same time.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And that's another thing that I think we don't necessarily encourage in this society. I mean, it's a very much a if you don't get along onto the next person kind of society. But what you're talking about is you got this guy in your life, he's your dad, you work with him and you're gonna keep showing up and keep engaging and keep figuring it out. And your way's not the right way, his way's not the right way. Between the two of you, you come up with the right way, but it requires constant re evaluation incorporated engagement.

Christian Townsend:

Yeah. We've also worked in separate offices since day one, which I think has helped. I'm not sure if I'd want to be in an office with my dad 60 hours a week and I'm sure he wouldn't want to be with me 60 hours a week. So we both work in our own offices. It's been like that since the first day. So a little separation I think has helped us get through the 25 years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How did you end up in Maine?

Christian Townsend:

My wife Catherine and I read an article in a magazine while we were on vacation about I think Portland is one of the great, you know, one of the top 10 places to raise a family or something. And we immediately came up in a blinding snowstorm in December and drove back to Connecticut and basically packed our bags and turned around. My wife now she started a real estate company up here which she's run for about 10 years and it seemed that every family member that came to visit eventually moved here. So step, you know, my stepbrother, my sister, both sets of my parents, everybody has moved to Maine in the last 10 years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

it's not that many people that I hear about driving into a snowstorm and then coming back to the snowstorm.

Christian Townsend:

Yeah, my wife wouldn't have done it, I don't think. Again, she can't stand the winter. But Portland is such a or Maine is such an amazing place with everything it has to offer with the physical environment and the people and art and food and I just can't Imagine living anywhere else besides Maine and specifically Portland. And I think that this rubbed off on all my siblings and parents as they came up here. The snow is an issue with my wife, though, so I don't know if she'd come up again, spur the moment like that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But you and Kathy bring the boys up to Sugarloaf.

Christian Townsend:

Yep.

Chris Kast:

Yep.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You're 12 and 10 year old and you've been avid skiers.

Christian Townsend:

Yeah, we make the weekend pilgrimage every weekend for the last couple years now. And really, I'm very prideful to be like a Sugar Loafer. It's a big part of my life. And Kathy doesn't ski every weekend, but she's there. She's a pretty big trooper, and she skis as often as she can. She'd much rather be in Antigua on the beach than a sugarloaf with 20 below zero wind. But we go up all the time. Absolutely love it. If I could ski year round, we would.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So somehow, again, just like you and your father, you and Kathy are somehow figuring it out. You're making it work. What is it about Maine that inspires you? You're a designer. You're a very visual person. When you walked into our office space, you were admiring the table and you looked at the stools and the one you're sitting on right now. You must gain some inspiration from the landscape and from the buildings and the architecture.

Christian Townsend:

I like how Maine is preserved, for starters. I mean, I don't use any of the environment of Maine in my business, but my wife taps into it immensely for real estate and really showcases why Maine is kind of the place to be. And there are so many features of Maine that I wouldn't want to live without today. But I don't think much of it goes, you know, transcends into my business. But as far as just life, I just can't imagine being anywhere else. The people here are so fantastic. The ocean, the mountains, the. What you guys do here to showcase Maine gives us a really good sense of pride. I think when I read your magazine, it does such a great job in presenting what Portland or what Maine is, that it makes us even more proud to kind of be Mainers. Although technically, I guess I'm not a Mainer. I don't think my kids are either. Do you have to be two generations?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

From what I understand, you have to be born here?

Christian Townsend:

Yeah, so my kids are born here, but I think there's still some.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Some discrepancy there.

Christian Townsend:

Yeah, I'm not sure if they're really Mainers, but.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it's always interesting for me to talk with people who say, come from the design field because I know that my brain does not. I mean, I like to take photographs, but mostly I'm. Well, actually, I like to take photographs. I like to sing, I like to write. I'm a doctor. So I guess my brain works in very different ways. But I know that I'm probably not a designer, so I'm always trying. It's always interesting to have conversations with people whose brains work differently and try to kind of tease out what it is that kind of helps keep their brains moving in the right direction.

Christian Townsend:

My quote unquote designer brain is sometimes a curse because I look to improve everything and it's not. It just happens innately. So that curtain rod or, you know, anything I look at, I try to improve. Drives my wife crazy because I probably have a much better way to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich than she does. And so it presents some problems. She's great about not listening to me. And I'm getting slightly better at not offering solutions to everything. But my design and engineer background shows up in everything I do. Whether it's painting a door or building a ship or literally anything cooking an egg. I'm always trying to improve the process and the outcome. Slight curse.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like it's on a continuum.

Chris Kast:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's what makes you very good at what you do and also can. It's hard to turn off.

Chris Kast:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So is there something about the spaciousness of the sky, the ocean main. The breathing space that enables you to somehow loosen that up a little bit so that you don't always feel like you have to fix the door or.

Christian Townsend:

Well, I'm not very good at fixing things. I can start the process. I'm really horrible at ending it. So consequently, we have many projects of the house that started years ago.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So maybe redesign the door.

Christian Townsend:

I can redesign the door really well. I just can't implement the change. And my space is very important for being creative. So I've got a fantastic office on India street, which is a converted warehouse, or not really warehouse, converted carriage house. It's tucked in between multiple buildings so that the postmaster can't even deliver mail to it. It's so hidden. And that space really helps me in designing tugboats. We have designed so many boats, though, at this point that it's fairly routine. So I couldn't do it at Sugarloaf. I can do it up at Moosehead and. But I wouldn't want to work in some tight, you know, Office with, you know, typical office building. I couldn't do it. I need something to maintain my creativity, I guess, or help with it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It sounds like your father's dedication to what he is doing has in some ways informed your dedication to what you're doing and the career path that you chose. How are you doing the same thing or not doing the same thing with your own sons?

Christian Townsend:

I look up to my dad with so much admiration. He is the hardest worker I know. Unbelievably smart and dedicated to me to succeed. He absolutely loves what he's doing, but he might not. He may be retired at this point. If I weren't in the picture, sure, he'd be still in the Bahamas or somewhere with my stepmother. But I am trying to instill as much in my children that I can forget what I've learned from my dad. I'm not as patient as my father, for sure, so. And probably not as capable of teaching as my dad is to my children. But I'm doing what I can and consequently my kids, you know, because of my wife and myself and my parents, I guess, are really great, well rounded children. Responsibility and punctuality are really important to me because of this business that I'm in. And so those are two things that I drill my kids with. And they probably don't like it as very much, but I'm taking as much from my dad and trying to get to my children as possible.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Given that this is a Father's Day show and it's airing on Father's Day and we'd be talking about you and your father, what are your dreams for your children as a father?

Christian Townsend:

Mostly, I hope they're healthy for the balance of their life, physically and mentally. And I hope that they can do what they really want to do in life. I would hate to see them trapped in a job or career where they don't want to be there. So I don't think the money, you know, I'm not teaching them that money's very important and I hope that they do something and not use that as any kind of decision what they would make. If they, if they want to be sous chef at, you know, 5:5:5 for the rest of life, then that'd be great. If they want to take over my company, that'd be great. But if they can just do what they really dream to aspire to do and be healthy, that's. That's all I really want.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, Christian, I really appreciate your coming in and talking to us about the work that you do and Now I can say that I have met a tugboat slash towboat designer which is. I don't think that many people can say that since there aren't that many in the world.

Christian Townsend:

Probably not.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I really appreciate that you, you and Kathy have chosen to raise your boys here and that you and your father are continuing to bring safe towboats into the world. So thanks for coming in and being with us on Father's Day. And happy Father's Day to you and to your dad.

Christian Townsend:

Thank you. Thank you very much. And you know, a big thanks to your magazine and all its affiliates for portraying Maine the way it should be portrayed. It's really we feel proud to have you guys, you know, portray Maine and tell its stories. So thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 144, Father's Day. Our guests have included Chris Kast and Christian Townsend. For more information on our guests and extended interviews, visit Dr. Lisa.org the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is downloadable for free on itunes. For a preview of each week's show, sign up for our E Newsletter and like our Dr. Lisa Facebook page. Follow me on Twitter and as bountiful one on Instagram. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Father's Day show. Happy Father's Day to my own father, Dr. Charlie Belisle, and all the father figures in my life. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.

Chris Kast:

Sa.