First Lady #234

Mary Herman:

The biggest thing I learned when I went to work for the Maine Women's Lobby is not to make assumptions about a person's policy positions based on the party they were in or perhaps the rural or urban area they were from, or even the committees that they were assigned to.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine radio show number 234, First lady, airing for the first time on Sunday, March 13, 2016. Mary Herman is a woman of many talents. She has intersected with and supported Mainers in countless areas including education, health and the non profit world. Today we speak with Maine's former First lady about her experience as an advocate and how she hopes to continue her good work in the years to come. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

guest is someone that I consider to be somewhat of a triumph. I've been trying to get her on my show for the last four years I believe and she's here so hooray. This is former First Lady Mary Herman. Mary Herman has had many community teacher, special education teacher, nurse and an advocate for women's issues and low income families. She is currently the Principal at Mary Herman Consulting where she advises nonprofits and is especially interested in the intersection between philanthropy and the nonprofit world in Maine. Thanks for coming.

Mary Herman:

Thanks, Lisa. It is nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Well,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

you are a busy lady. You have spent the better part of your life just going nonstop, pretty much from what I can tell. So I think the fact that you even have a moment of breath, that you can come in here and talk to us is pretty great. I want to know a little bit about how it has been to simultaneously have your own identity as Mary Herman, but also the other of Angus King.

Mary Herman:

So I think I might start by saying maybe a smart thing I did when I married for the first time way back in 1973 was keeping my own name. So I've always had the name Mary Herman, which is the person who grew up in a civic minded family in Wisconsin and sort of migrated east for work and school and eventually found myself in rural Maine, which was a bit of a wake up. I had never lived in a small rural area, but I made a great many friends when I lived in Washington County. And eventually, as you mentioned, I did go to nursing school at UMA and drifted down. So I think I was raised to kind of look forward and see what I could do for the community.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, tell me about your civic minded family.

Mary Herman:

I very much credit my interest in the nonprofit world to my mom. I grew up in the 50s and 60s. My mom was was an at home mom, but she wasn't at home that much. She was on a number of volunteer boards and she did a lot of community volunteering. It's fun for me to tell people who are not as old as I that what we now known as the United Way was in my childhood the Red Cross and the Red Feather. And Red Cross was community health care agencies and Red Feather was social service agencies. And I really did go door to door with my mom and her white packet of names to ask for 10, 15, $20 based on last year's contribution. And if a person donated, they got a little pin that was a red cross or a red feather. And so many people's picture of their mom is standing at the back door with a plate of cookies. My picture of my mom is sitting at her desk on the telephone.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have this interest in health and education as well, and you've done both. What was your draw for each one of those fields?

Mary Herman:

Well, I think it was actually serendipitous. When I moved to Maine in 1973, I was a teacher and I had done also special ed and there weren't any Jobs at that point teaching in Washington County. I had done some volunteering at a family planning clinic when I was teaching in Washington D.C. years earlier. So I volunteered at the local family planning clinic in Calais, Maine. And that eventually morphed or evolved into what had been a volunteer position with a part time clinic into a full time clinic. And I worked myself into a job and I found myself advising the physicians based on what I was reading in the technology magazines, what they called contraceptive technology then. And I decided I'd better go to nursing school because I was very interested in women's health and community health, but I didn't have the health care background. So that is what launched my interest in going to nursing school here in Maine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what did you do with your degree? You went for the University of Maine and Augusta?

Mary Herman:

I did. I got a two year degree, what they called an ADN, an associate degree in nursing in 1978 at UMA. And I initially worked in labor and delivery and then the nursery at Parkview Hospital in Brunswick, which at that time was where all the babies were born. And then I worked at an outpatient program for women in substance abusing families. So I learned the world of substance abuse and addiction and rehab then. And I did that for a combination of those things for a couple of years before an opening occurred at the Maine Women's Lobby. And so I worked for two years in the 110th Maine Legislature in Augusta. And it was totally on the job training. I'd never done that before, a little bit of advocacy on pro choice issues. But I really learned OJT well, tell me about that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What types of things did you learn and what was your essential position?

Mary Herman:

I think one of the fun things to talk about is the biggest thing I learned when I went to work for the Maine Women's Lobby is not to make assumptions about a person's policy positions based on the party they were in or perhaps the rural or urban area they were from, or even the committees that they were assigned to. But if I did my homework, I could find that perhaps a very conservative legislator from a small town in Maine would be very strong on smoking related issues and health related issues. And if I did my research, I could gather advocates and allies from a broad range. I worked very hard to be a nonpartisan lobbyist, even though I work for the Maine Women's Lobby, which many people considered pretty liberal because women having an advocate. But it was really important to reach out always to what we call both sides of the aisles, Republicans and Democrats and independents, and whenever I worked on legislation, I made sure that we had a good basket mix.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what were some of the things that you saw working in education or in healthcare as issues for women and children that have continued on into this day?

Mary Herman:

I think access to health care, access to housing, access to nutritious food. I actually worked for a short time during nursing school for the Women, Infants and Children known as the WIC program. It might have a different name now, I can't remember, but so I think access to basic life needs was and remains my biggest concerns.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have an interest between the intersection you have an interest in the intersection between nonprofits and philanthropy. What does that mean?

Mary Herman:

Well, in my work over the last specifically six years, having my own one person company and working with nonprofits, and as you know, nonprofits are always looking for funding and ways to grow and more predictable streams of funding. So the organizations that I've worked with and for and advised, in addition to doing fundraising events, which are a lot of fun, have been pretty busy in the grant writing world. And it takes a lot of time and a lot of work as they reach out to foundations for grants. And I wish it were an easier connection between foundations, funders, donors, but not individual donors, really, the foundations and family foundations and organizational foundations. I would like it to be easier. I would like for nonprofits to not be constantly churning out long grants and kind of banging their head against the wall and trying to meet deadlines. I have a hope that foundations will make it easier, express more clarity in their requests for proposals and in their grant applications. I think I would like to see more personal interactions meeting between an applicant organization and a foundation, or even group meetings where they explain in a room of people. And I've been in those rooms what they're hoping to fund this year or this year and into the next year, and that it be more of a partnership and an alliance than kind of an us and them. And I know that there are people in the foundation world who aren't happy to see me say that, but I really would like it to be more. More friendly, softer, less of a divide.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So because I don't have that much of a background in the foundation world, I'm interested in what you just said about people not being happy to hear you say that. Is there that much of a divide that people would like to keep it

Mary Herman:

separate or not all foundations, but sometimes I feel like the foundations are kind of holding their funds and holding their priorities close to the chest. And I wish it were a little more open. I think it would be A lot easier for nonprofits if before they went and wrote the applications, they had a much even clearer. And I'm pretty sure that foundations believe, and I don't mean to sound critical, that they are quite clear in what they're hoping to fund and what their priorities are and what the. The individuals who built the foundation are looking for. I'd like to see it even more

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

open in the work that I've done with nonprofits. Part of what I noticed was that a lot of time can be used to write these grants and maybe go after things that aren't a great fit from the foundation standpoint anyway. Is that one of the things that you're talking about?

Mary Herman:

Well, I can give an example. I was approaching a foundation where I happened to know the foundation administrator, and I told them that my client would be very interested in applying. And the foundation administrator was very clear with me and said, you know, Mary, I can't take this organization to the family, to the decision makers, because your numbers, their numbers, your client numbers are just not big enough, deep enough. And it was like, thank you. This is going to save a lot of time. On the flip side, I asked that person if we could come meet with them and maybe they would learn a little more about the organization. So we did go and meet with the administrators of the foundation. And although the foundation that I had reached out to couldn't fund us, it turns out there was a smaller foundation within that larger family that was interested and did fund them, did fund the client. So if we get a chance to meet personally and paint the picture of who we are and what we do, I think anecdotes go a long way. There might just be opportunities that we don't know. When it's black and white on paper.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You and I worked together on a project for Safe Passage, a book called Our Daily Tread. This was a few years ago, raising some money for that organization that was founded by Hanley Denning. And when I was working with Safe Passage, one of the things I learned is that increasingly people are asked to put their numbers out in front. Donors really want to understand that what they are doing is making a difference. They want to see some progress for their investment, a return on their investment. Essentially, this feels like a shift from what perhaps it once was. What's your observation?

Mary Herman:

Well, I'm doing some research into that now and trying to educate myself more into what some people are calling the new philanthropy or the new face of foundations. And I think there is a greater desire on the part of the funders, the foundations to be more involved, more integrally involved, more even physically involved, whether it be by site visits or other ways to have a much more hands on understanding. And I'm in the process, Lisa, of trying to educate myself more. The Ford foundation is doing some new work and some of the major national philanthropy information and philanthropy advocacy organizations are doing some, some soul searching and also sharing of what they're going to be doing in the future. So hopefully that will be terrific and more helpful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I know it's a challenge because I know we all would like to believe that what we're doing is making some positive progress in the world or the money that we're putting into something actually is going to give us a return on investment. But having worked in healthcare for quite a while, sometimes that lead time is very long. Sometimes you don't really know if you're actually impacting the state of someone's health for quite a while. And I think that's been part of the frustration that I have seen is not just healthcare, but sometimes education and other related fields are the same way.

Mary Herman:

I totally agree with you. I think it's hard. And that's why I'll go back to what I said a minute ago, which is that I think personal interaction, personal meetings between funders and organizations, eyes on hand, hands on, anecdotal information would hopefully be reassuring to foundations in that they would trust that where their money is going to go is going to make a difference. It might take 2, 3, 4, 5 years that they're not going to get cold hard data in the short run. Because another thing is that nonprofits have a hard time collecting data. They're service providers and they're not statisticians necessarily. And I've run up against this too with clients where the funder wants a lot of data, pre testing, mid testing, post testing. Whereas what you have is teachers who want to be with the clients and with the students and also not intimidating the students that all they're going to do is have tests pre, mid and late. So it's a conundrum and I guess goes back to what I said maybe a few minutes ago. It would be great if there could be increased trust and maybe that comes by developing personal relationships, which is we all know is important. We're fortunate to live in Maine where we see each other coming and going and we know each other and we get to talk about each other's children and families and that's what builds up trust. Because if we know each other and we know each other's background, we're going to be honest with each other, and hopefully the honesty leads to trust.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I completely agree. And I think what I have seen also is that sometimes having those added layers, which are supposedly to create objectivity so that you can actually see things, you can make objective comparisons, say, it sometimes backfires. So to have so many layers between person and person, the person who's on the ground doing the work, and the person who might be able to fund that work to say, well, first we want all of your paperwork, first we want all of your numbers. I'm not sure that people are always able to give enough of an elevator speech to draw in a potential funder.

Mary Herman:

Yeah, that is a real challenge. Whether it's the mission statement, the elevator speech, and also speaking the language of the funders, sometimes the people that are making the decisions are my age and older, and the service providers are millennials or younger, and there's a bit of a language ling gap that needs to be broached.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's interesting you would say that, because I have. I have thought the same thing recently. I believe that a lot of the same people have a lot of. This is maybe going off on a little bit of a tangent, but I believe that many people of the last few generations have the same goals, which would be gender equality, say, or racial equality. But what I'm hearing when I talk to people who are perhaps younger than I am is a whole different set of terms that are being used. And then the people that I see who are perhaps a little older than I am, they want exactly the same thing, but that's just not what things were called back then. So I had a conversation with somebody recently where she talked about dealing with gender as something other than being binary. And I thought, wow, that's fascinating. Nobody's ever said that before, but I think that that was just part of what she had been educated with. And I. I don't think people that are my age or older have any particular quarrel with the concept. It's just not necessarily the way that they know how to speak.

Mary Herman:

We need to be reminded what that means, that you're right, we know the concept. But binary. Stop and think. What does that mean? Not just male, female, for example.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. And it's interesting to see the evolution. It's interesting to see the things that, you know, gender issues or racial issues. You know, these are things that we've been working on now for decades.

Mary Herman:

But too long.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, absolutely, too long. And we've also seen good things happen, happen. But sometimes over time, the historical perspective Gets lost. And I don't know it's necessarily the young that have lost the historical perspective on some of these things. Sometimes it's older people too.

Mary Herman:

I think the young don't realize a lot the history don't understand what happened in the women's movement, what happened in the civil rights movement, that we're. I feel like we're still in the middle. Because if you think about it, so many young men and women now have parents who are doctors and lawyers. Whereas when I grew up, I don't think I knew a female lawyer. I may have known one female physician. Whereas the students that are in college now, for example, they didn't grow up where opportunities were limited. Frankly, maybe boring for your listeners, but when I went to college, the opportunities for women were to be a teacher, a social worker, a nurse. At that time, there were no nurses in my family. I wasn't sure what social workers did or whether I could do that. But the women in my family were teachers. So that was what I. Where I, you know, that was my direction and I enjoy and I. That was sort of. I kind of felt I could combine social work and teaching way back in the 60s. And then when I was in college, I know one young woman who went to law school and two young women who went to medical school. And just the time lag between my time and your time when. I bet you weren't the only woman in your medical school class.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

No, I think we were just under 50%.

Mary Herman:

And that was in a period of 20 years. So then the people 20 and 40 years younger, they don't realize the evolution of opportunity.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'm glad we're talking about this because you and I both have children who are in college. I have two kids in college. You have one and one who has graduated. And then you have three older stepchildren. And I spend a lot of time talking with my college age, specifically my college age daughter, because she's interested in gender issues about. About what it means to be female in this world, to work and to also have children. And actually I speak with my son about it too, but just in a. Just a different way because his thinking on this is different. And I think for her, for my Abby, to not quite understand the practical nature of being married to someone and raising children while you are simultaneously trying to explore your own career, I think there is the ideal situation where male and female, each person gets to have their path and somehow the children get raised along the way and the household continues. I think that that's great. But There's a lot of compromises that occur along the way. And I think for me to talk to my daughter about. Yes, when I was your age, I felt absolutely certain that gender issues would look a certain way and that our household roles would be a certain way. And over the last 22 years of raising children, I have realized that sometimes practical gets in the way of ideal.

Mary Herman:

Well, I just was having this discussion with Angus the other day. I'm not sure that motherhood has changed, but fatherhood has really evolved. And I think it's really interesting as I watch my own grown step kids and their families and dads are much more involved. Dads have taken on a lot more responsibility. Dads understand certainly different than the way I grew up and even in the intervening years. So, yeah, I think it's great that you're having that discussion with your kids.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's actually a really fair point too about the fact that as males, it's not as if young men have been. They're actually being asked to do more than maybe they once were when they were just the breadwinner of the family. And, and I don't know that we ever. And I know women are being asked to do more too, but that's always been kind of recognized that if you're going to go into the workforce, then you're still going to be expected to raise the kids. But now it seems as though, yeah, young men, not only are you going to be the breadwinner, but you also are going to be expected and want to be part of your children's lives. And so that just really changes the dynamic within family.

Mary Herman:

And I think it's kind of interesting to think about how role models have evolved of who and what is mom and who and what is dad and who's adjusting to it more easily than others. It's fun to watch.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I agree. So you are your own person and you're doing your own thing, but a big part of what you were asked to do while Angus and actually still is in office, but while he was in office as the governor was to be a connector with him. You know, you were by his side a lot, which required a lot of your own energy and you were raising your children. What was that like? It seems like it must have been kind of crazy at times.

Mary Herman:

Well, when Angus began as governor in 1995, Ben was four and a half and Molly had not yet arrived from India. So the kids. So she came that February. And so my kids were little and that was really my priority. But there was this amorphous thing called First Lady. And I really didn't know what that meant. And the governor's wife prior to Angus election was, of course, Senator Olympia Snowe. And she had been in Washington as congresswoman and senator, so there wasn't a lot of immediate history. She did a lot of stuff. On weekends, I did bump into the wonderful Polly Curtis, who was the wife of Governor Curtis. And I asked her before Angus was sworn in, how do you do this? And she said, just be yourself. And that was incredible, amazing advice, and it was quite a relief. So, actually, Lisa, what I did is I said, I don't really. There's no book about being the first lady of Maine. I don't really know what to do. But my kids are little, so what I did was I sort of backed into it. I would go up to the. To Augusta to Blaine House on Fridays and do things there, whether it was traditional nonprofit gatherings or teas or meetings with people who wanted to have something that the first lady was involved in. So I would take the kids up with me on Fridays, and the Blaine House staff would help me kind of oversee them. And so as they got older, I went on Thursdays and Fridays, and as they got a little older, I went on Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays. And when I felt they were old enough and I could get childcare, I would do stuff out of the house. So after the eight years, they were both in elementary school full time, so by then I was doing more and more. And it was fun. We did a lot of. I'm pretty proud of the issues that we were able to highlight while Angus was in office. From the office of the first lady, although they never called it that, but, you know, breast cancer awareness and underage drinking awareness and children's literacy, and then the fun and easier stuff, advocacy for Maine arts and crafts and Maine artists and artisans. And so some stuff was easier than others. But I met a lot of wonderful people, and I traveled the state and I did a lot of reading to kids with my Dr. Seuss hat on. So I sort of. It was one of those. Again, it was on the job training. But Maine is a great place, and it was a privilege to meet so many great people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think that's actually how I first met you, though you may not remember, this is through Raising Readers, which is a literacy organization that is done through

Mary Herman:

Maine Health and actually statewide, it's an incredible, incredible program. My grandkids here in Maine each has the 12 books that they got over five years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I think doctors and healthcare providers have been very successfully.

Mary Herman:

And they've stuck with it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. In the hands of children. Yeah. Which does kind of speak to what you're saying, that sometimes you plant a seed and you don't really know if it's going to grow or not. But there is often some longitudinality to the actions that you take, no matter where you are, whether you're working as an advocate at the State House or whether you're working as a nurse or an educator, or whether you're doing whatever this amorphous first lady role is. So I guess what I'm wondering, you made a very conscious decision, I believe I'm remembering this correctly, that to raise your kids in Brunswick in your own house, not in the Blaine house, and really be protective of their. Of their lives and not push them out there as being public figures themselves. How did that conversation look between you and Angus?

Mary Herman:

Well, our home in Brunswick is in a neighborhood and my son's closest friend lived literally through the backyard, through the shortcut. The kids didn't even have to cross the street. And it was. I just couldn't imagine moving up to the Blaine house in Augusta, which is not in a residential area. Most of the homes have been converted into offices. And I kind of felt like if I raised my kids there, they would kind of look out the window and see dad coming and going from work. But it would be long days and, you know, finding friends and neighbors and playmates would be kind of starting over. And I really, I. To be honest, I didn't want to raise my house, my children, in a home where they were waited on, where there were service people, servers. I just felt like that doesn't really fit this generation. So I wanted them to have as much as I could, the same childhood that they would have had. Walking to the preschool, walking to the elementary school and sticking with their same friends. And we were really lucky. It worked for us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you had two children that you were raising while Angus was in office. And then there was a. There was a hiatus, a non political kind of hiatus. And you actually took a journey in a camper, I believe, which I spoke with Angus about a few years before he went back into the public life. And it seemed like a good. Seemed like a good dividing point. What was that like to all of a sudden go from, we live in Brunswick, it's, you know, nice little college town, raising kids, first lady governor. We're just going to take off and see the country.

Mary Herman:

It was wonderful. It was terrific. I loved it. It was nearly six months of being on the Road and being in blue jeans every day and not worrying about how's my hair, Did I remember my lipstick? You know, can I wear sweats to the grocery store? It was sort of the, you know, driving off into the great anonymity was great. And the time with the kids, the uninterrupted time with the kids was a gift that we were able to do that from a political standpoint. It was really smart to get out of town and not, you know, be still in Maine with a new administration and things changing and some things remaining the same and some things being dismantled. To just get out of town and have absolute wonderful anonymity and be with the kids. And we did home school them. We did our very best at homeschooling. But I loved the time together. And I was sort of strict about every night I would read aloud to the kids about where we were going to visit the next day. Sort of the pre tourism thing and being able to see the country, being able to be together, visiting the amazing national parks and monuments was absolutely fantastic. And it was totally anonymous. A really funny thing happened. As you may or may not recall, Angus is an acquaintance of David Brancaccio from public radio. And Angus had met David, who grew up on the Colby campus. His dad was a professor. And before we went, David called and said, said, angus, would you consider dispatches every couple of weeks? Give us a little flavor of the economy of the various places you're seeing. And Angus said, well, that's sort of intriguing. And Angus had been a broadcast person, so he didn't have any trouble in front of a mic. And David said, and I'll pay you $200 per dispatch. And Angus said, well, that'll buy some diesel fuel. That'll be good. So every two weeks, Angus did a dispatch. This is a long story. We were hiking in the Grand Canyon and bumped into a family. Hi. Where are you from? Hi. Where you from? And we're from Maine. We're from Connecticut. They said, oh, that's interesting. Did you hear that the governor of Maine and his family are traveling? And Angus said, really cool. And we each went on our way. So we had 100% anonymity. And what was most important to me was that my kids did, you know, they were just totally kids. And we had a wonderful six months seeing the country and visiting friends and relatives. Angus teases me there that I had more relatives than he ever imagined. But I recommend to any family that can pull it together to take their kids on a camping trip, an RV trip. It's the most valuable thing you can do. Have the teachers call me if they're concerned. But I just believe so deeply in the importance of family time together. And you can squeeze in a lot of education at the same time.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How old were your kids when you did this?

Mary Herman:

The kids were four, third grade and seventh grade. And I think seventh grade is almost the limit. When people ask me about it, I say the earlier you can do it the better because by seventh grade you're taking them away from their, you know, junior high friends and their athletics. So I would, you can do it. And different families have different dynamics, but I would try and do it before seventh grade.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm always jealous when I talk to people who have had the opportunity to do this because now all of my children are beyond that age, so I no longer could do it. But every person I've ever spoken with about this type of journey says the education and the bonding that you have access to is just something you couldn't replicate in a normal day to day setting.

Mary Herman:

I think now what we can pull off with our kids is shorter trips to New York or some national athletic championship or something where you, the kids don't realize it, but you're getting some good time with them too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I agree and I have had that, so I feel like I'm lucky in that respect. I'm wondering what it was like for your kids and I don't know if you ever talked to them about it. I suspect you did to be even as sheltered as they were, still in the public eye, still the children of the governor and the first lady of the state of Maine.

Mary Herman:

You know, Lisa, maybe it's about time I asked them to go back in history and tell me what I was too apprehensive to ask at the time or they were too young to even know. I can say kind of a fun story about my daughter Molly. Molly was a senior in high school when Olympia Snow. Was she a senior? Yeah, I think so. When Olympia Snow decided not to run and Angus grabbed the brass ring and decided to run. But before he did, he talked to both of the kids. Ben was in college and away and Molly was still in high school. And Angus asked Molly, you know, I'm thinking of doing this. Do you think I should? And Molly's answer was, dad, you need a project and I don't want it to be me. So that was the okay from Molly. And so by then she was a senior in high school and she knew she would be in college. And actually she was. When Angus was sworn in she was a freshman in college, so both of the kids, by the time the US Senate came around, as far as the campaign, Molly worked a little bit in the campaign. Ben was doing other activities. So Molly did a little in the campaign and she did do a press conference and I was very proud of her.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And now she's at American University.

Mary Herman:

Yes, she's very happily situated in Washington. Sees her dad from time to time. Not regularly, but if you, if the calendars work.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So was there a connection between her dad being in office and going down there?

Mary Herman:

Maybe a small one. You know, when she decided to transfer, she took a personal six month trip to India, volunteering and traveling and did all of her transfer applications before she left. And most of them were urban areas, though she mostly wanted to, to be in an urban area. And so it would be nice, I think was the. It would be nice, but it wasn't the primary motivation.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So before we came on the era, you were talking about an article I had written for Maine Magazine about my own experience with cancer. And I know that your family has also had experience with cancer and also based on the fact that you've worked in healthcare, you have that experience. And what I have always known as a doctor, but now really know as a person who has had cancer, that it is a family experience that you can't leave unchanged from going through that. What has your experience been?

Mary Herman:

Well, I wasn't married to Angus when he had melanoma. And I know that his former wife, who's a wonderful person and a very good friend, was right there all the way through it. For this most recent experience, I would just say just being there and loving and taking it one step at a time. And I'll be honest with you, when Angus was diagnosed this last time, I did not go to the Internet. I just, I didn't go to the Internet. I figured I'll be overwhelmed, I'll be frightened, I'll read different things. And even the doctors recommended, you know, and I've sort of heard increasing doctor recommendations on the don't go to the Internet. I just decided in this case I would be there to hold Angus's hand as much as I could and take a lot of notes and have my questions on a piece of paper so the doctors would know I had them. And I think it's just being there and being optimistic. What else can you be? You've got to be.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I think that's very true. And actually, even as a physician going on the Internet myself, I remember coming back because I got my diagnosis when I was away on a trip, when I was in New York, and then I was on my phone immediately looking at what does this mean? And what are the statistics? And I actually came out of looking on the Internet so profoundly discouraged because there wasn't really a clear answer. And I wanted a clear answer. So that was certainly one of the drawbacks was to say this may or may not apply to you, and there is this uncertainty that we can never get our arms around when it comes to diseases like cancer. So I think that that's an interesting observation that you would have. And really, this is what people. What I found was people wanted to. They wanted to do something because they felt like that if they could just do something, then somehow it would make things better. And the best thing that most people did for me was just to say, hey, we're here. You know, I want to go for a walk. Do you want to. Do you need some soup? You know, things that were so very simple because we can't impact, you know, whether somebody's chemotherapy works, but we can impact how their mental mindset is while they're going through something like that.

Mary Herman:

And, yeah, I think, like being a friend and just being there. I think just being there. If I could just take a minute. Lisa, I want to say that Angus was very fortunate. Twice that his cancers were caught and he had surgery and treated. And I'm going to make a little plug, not that anyone's asked me to, to the males in your audience, to make sure to have your physical exam. Yes. Your manual exam. That's how Angus's cancer was caught. It's really important. It may not be comfortable, but have that physical examination. Gentlemen, please.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I actually like that you put that plug in there. It's very, very difficult to get people in to see a doctor. It's much more difficult to get men in to see a doctor and to convince them to have a physical exam. It's like some sort of minor act of God. So I second that thought that you have. So you're looking forward in your work and also in your, I guess, role, whatever that looks like. With Angus's current position, what are some of the things that you're really hoping to see happen?

Mary Herman:

Well, it's fun. You know, the word pillow talk is sort of an old fashioned 1950s term. I don't know if anyone in your listening audience knows there was actually a movie called Pillow Talk. But you know, when partners talk to each other at night, and that's maybe my biggest role is to kind of nudge Angus, I'm interested in what's going on in Washington. I'm certainly an inveterate news reader and writer, still get the paper, newspaper at the house and listen to the news on the radio. So maybe a little bit of a conscience. And again, we're so fortunate to live in Maine. People are sweet, people are polite, but people come up to me and just happen a couple of days ago on an issue that Angus has been involved in and said, I really wish he would come out on this one, or I really wish he would change on this one. And that's fine. I'm happy to pass on the message and say, see, this person is saying what I've been saying. So it's not just me, you know, and maybe part of my role is because I read newspapers and listen to the news. I'll send Angus a text and say, you know, someone, you or someone in your staff, make sure you listen to this radio show today. Or you might want to listen to the rerun of this. Or I'll. I do save the newspapers and highlight them and flag them. And he thanks me. So maybe I can just be sort of an unpaid staffer.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And then what about your own work that you do?

Mary Herman:

And my own work, in the simplest terms, is I like. I work with nonprofits, and I like to say helping them to move to the next level by connecting. I've learned. And, you know, because of my 43 years in Maine and the various jobs that I've had and that Angus has had, I've had the privilege of meeting so many people around the state. So what I like most to do with organizations or individuals, and I've done some small businesses, is brainstorm on, you know, give some fresh ideas or some new outlook and then connecting people. So I hope I can continue to work with nonprofits and connect them to individuals and other organizations that can make a difference and help them grow or change. And it might mean growing, changing, merging, having a different look. But I like the challenge of helping somebody move or an organization move ahead.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Having been involved with social causes pretty much the entirety of your life, going around and fundraising for the Red Cross and the Red Feather with your mother. What are some things that you believe still need to happen? What are some social changes that you're still really hoping will move forward?

Mary Herman:

I'm really glad you asked. I'm very concerned about hunger. The current appropriate term is food insecurity, and I understand the definition. I've been to presentations. I'm very concerned about hunger. I'm very concerned about Housing. I'm concerned about access to health care and affordable education. Those are the big ones that I, you know, access to education, kind of moving backwards. Access to education, safe housing. It just stymies me that we. That we can't figure out a way, and I'm sure people in your audience know the way, but to have more affordable housing in Maine. I'm troubled by homelessness. I'm ashamed that we're still struggling with homelessness, and I applaud the work of the organizations like Purple street and others that are doing everything they possibly can. But it just, you know, it's. It's really worrisome. So I'm sort of repeating myself. And I've learned a lot about, you know, veterans services, and I hope we can do more and do better to address this. Those individuals and their families that have served our country.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I would agree with you. We've had people on to talk about homelessness. And as someone who's lived in Maine most of her life, it really saddens me to see the number of people just in just Portland alone, but even in other parts of the state who very clearly don't have access to a stable home environment and. And having worked with Sharer Strength and spent time with John woods and the no Kid Hungry campaign, it really bothers me. It bothers me that we've come to this place and we're so far along in so many areas, but some very basic needs are not getting met. Why do you think that is?

Mary Herman:

Why do I think? I think maybe it's hard to build affordable housing. Maybe we have too many regulations. Maybe we have too many layers. Maybe the banks can loosen up or the federal agencies, but, you know, obviously you need money to build structures. And, you know, I just wish there could be a way to speed along the processes. Lisa, if I'm going to. If I may interrupt both of us, I'm also very troubled and saddened by the addiction crisis in Maine. And I stand ready if anybody can find a role for me to step up and help between. Once I worked in a substance abuse agency and I represented substance abuse agencies at the legislature. I've mentioned to a couple of people. I don't know if there's any role for me, but, you know, besides shouting from a rooftop, you know, more treatment, more understanding. You know, I'll add that to my list of things that I'm concerned about. About in my jerky conversation.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, people who are listening. If you need Mary Herman to help you work on addiction issues, she's ready.

Mary Herman:

I Wish I could do something.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What type of world do you hope that your children and your grandchildren will grow up in?

Mary Herman:

A safer world? Yeah, I'm concerned about guns too. I'm going to a luncheon tomorrow related to the new referendum and I serve on the advisory committee about gun safety. It's a touchy topic in Maine and we're lucky so far that we haven't.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Mary's knocking on wood over here.

Mary Herman:

Yeah. But I hope we can. I hope we can do something about gun sales in Maine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And one last question. I know you worked for quite a while on the Wayfinder School, which, which was the community schools. And actually part of the reason that we were able to get you in is through a connection that we had with Emma Wilson, who also worked with,

Mary Herman:

who I worked with and is a

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

dear friend and also with our now food editor, Karen Waterson. Em is at Art Collector Maine. Karen is it. She's the food editor here for Maine Magazine. You did a lot of work with them over a span of time. And given the number of organizations that held your attention, what was it about that organization that kept you interested?

Mary Herman:

I loved working with Wayfinder Schools, which as Lisa knows, is the merged organization of what was Opportunity Farm in New Gloucester, a 300 acre hundred year old organization treating at risk boys primarily and then eventually girls. And Community School in Camden, which is nearly 50 years old, also working to support kids to complete high school in an expeditious way. And that it was just, these are great kids. These are good kids who've struggled for a number of reasons. It could be family dysfunction, it could be geographical distance. There's also the Passages program which serves pregnant and parenting teens, which I love helping those young moms who want to complete a high school education because they want to be an educated person so that their child can have a healthy life. So I believe, I love what Wayfinder School stands for as far as helping kids complete a high school education. Many people say that your high school diploma is your first ticket and if you have that diploma, then you can go on to the next challenges in life. But the students at the school learn a lot, do a lot more than academic education. They learn how to be independent citizens. And that's really important as they're launched into Maine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I said I was gonna ask one more question. This is really the last question. And that is what do you do for fun?

Mary Herman:

Been skiing this winter. I got new skis. I took a ski lesson. And I'd have to say as a plug for Sugarloaf, if I may because my son works there and I know how hard they've been working. They worked really hard to make those trails work. And as a sort of a very middling, low middling skier. So I like to ski and I love doing yoga. I say to people, I guess I'm addicted. I can't explain why, but there's something about the opportunity to go to a yoga class. And Angus will say, well, why can't you do it at home? And I'll say, well I can do it at home but in yoga class I'm in that room for one purpose and there's no interruptions and no dog licking me. So I'm able to and be with family. We love being together as a family. We watch football games together on Sunday afternoons and I try and take help my daughter in law a little bit and take care of her. Watch, watch my grandkids in Portland as often as I can. So I think fun is being with family.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How can people find you as part of Mary Herman Consulting? What's the best way to reach you?

Mary Herman:

Let's see. I have a LinkedIn page. You can find me Mary Herman. I have a website, maryjherman.com thank you for asking. Maryjherman.com so website that Nancy Marshall communications staff did a great job on. I did not do my website, I did not do my LinkedIn page. So perhaps this is a plug for that other organization. And so maryjherman.com is probably the best. Or find me on LinkedIn. And I'm in Facebook as a person, not as a business. But not the imitation Mary Herman. The Facebook that I am is the high school picture, black and white of Mary J. Herman in high school with a headband. There's an imitation without a picture. So if you're looking for me on Facebook, I'm Mary J. Herman, black and white.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Very good. We've been speaking with former first lady Mary Herman, who is the principal at Mary Herman Consulting. I really appreciate your coming in and spending time with me today. It's been really great to get the update on your life.

Mary Herman:

Well, thank you for asking me and

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

have been listening to Lovemain radio show number 234 First Lady. Our guest has been Mary Herman. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Love Maine Radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Bellio. I hope that you have enjoyed our first lady show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life. Here is an excerpt from a great interview we had with Shayna Reddy of the Ropes, who will be featured on an upcoming show. Did it help that you you had parents who were doing their own thing, they had their own business and now you have a husband who also is an entrepreneur and he has his own business. Did it help to be surrounded by other people who were able to show you that it was possible if you believed in yourself to move forward?

[Unidentified voice]:

Yes, definitely. Although I would say, you know, my husband has a lobster business with his brother here in Maine, Ready Seafood and that and then my parents inn, the old Ford Inn. Those are very different than what I do. So it was sort of inspiring to watch these people have their own business and definitely you learn from things they've done. But my path was very different and I think that my experience in the cities in New York and in Boston really helped me sort of focus on the fashion point of what I do. I don't think that I just make a rope bracelet. I think I have created a style with the bracelet. Is there's. I don't know how to describe it. It's so funny. It's Sort of a look that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I don't know. Well, I think that's a really good point, because it's not. I like reading your quotes on Instagram, but I also equally like seeing what you do with the bracelets and seeing where the bracelets appear, because you will pair a bracelet with a pair of jeans, but you will also pair it with something more tropical. Yeah. And your bracelets actually have been picked up. Up by media outlets around the country.

[Unidentified voice]:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So other people are agreeing with you that these bracelets really are kind of the. I don't know, a focal point.

[Unidentified voice]:

Yeah. I think it's interesting. Somehow people can relate to them. It speaks to people, I think, because the materials are used, are so basic, and people can just sort of relate. And I think that there's something really nice about the sort of juxtaposition of putting this chunky rope bracelet on, but having, you know, a little black dress on and going to a cocktail party. It's sort of. You're dressed up, but you're not forgetting who you are or you're making a statement with this, you know, sort of chunky piece of jewelry. That is nice, I think.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's very Maine.

[Unidentified voice]:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I mean, it's kind of the whole. I've been astounded by how popular bean boots and flannel shirts have become over the last few years. I mean, because I grew up wearing these, I was also a child of the 80s. That's just what we wore. But it wasn't because the rest of the world wore it. There's something that's very grounding about Maine and how we choose to live our lives. And it doesn't mean we can't be fancy.

[Unidentified voice]:

No.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We're just kind of this interesting combination. We can wear our little black dress and our bean boots and our rope bracelet.

[Unidentified voice]:

Yes. Yeah, it's true. I think there's something really nice and rugged about Maine, and you have to sort of. I don't know, I call it mainerize. I always think, you know, I look at all this fashion stuff, and I'm like, well, would that work in Maine? I don't know. You know, definitely. If I were still living in a city and going out to these fancy parties, I could wear that. But it's like, you know, you have to think about what I'm doing here in Maine and whether or not that's gonna work with your look. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But your bracelets also have some really great colors. I think I bought. The first ropes bracelets that I bought were actually in Kenny Bunkport in a little store there. And two of them had bright fluorescent colors because I was giving them to my teenage daughter and my younger daughter at the time. So, I mean, you. You've been able to make really interesting variations on a theme.

[Unidentified voice]:

Yeah, yeah. I love color. I get really inspired by color. I feel like it has endless possibilities. You know, any way you combine different color, I think it's really beautiful. And I like to give the people that wear my bracelets, like, a reason to keep buying them. And, you know, the only bracelet that I am, like, kind of committed to, I feel like, is my anniversary bracelet, my five year anniversary bracelet. I wanted a bracelet that would go with everything, and that was why it was so neutral. And it was just the two mixed metals and that worked. And then I feel like that will always be on the line. But then the other bracelets, the colors will change through the seasons, which I think keeps my customer entertained, but it also keeps me inspired and entertained. It keeps things interesting for me.