Four is a Magic Number

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to a very special version of Love Maine Radio. It's actually our four year anniversary. On September 18, 2011, we recorded our first show and we're back in the studio where Dr. Lisa radio podcast and Love Maine Radio officially began. Today I'm speaking with my good longtime friend Ray Richardson, who has a history in radio of some renown in the state of Maine. I'm going to let him introduce himself a little bit more. But for those of you who listen on wlob, you're quite familiar with with Ray, thanks so much for joining me on this special occasion.

Ray Richardson:

Ray, I'm glad to do it. It's hard to believe it's been four years. You were coming on my show for a couple of years and then this morphed into your show and it's been fantastic.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I enjoyed coming on wlob and it was interesting because early on people would say, well, isn't WLOB this Republican station and Fox? And they would give me kind of, they would kind of wonder, you know, this is Dr. Lisa and you're, you're all liberal in Chinese medicine and gentle and kind and compassionate. And why would you go on and talk Ray and Ted? Because that's when Ted was here.

Ray Richardson:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But I think you and I were talking earlier this morning and you said something that's pretty profound and that's that you can't really categorize people. You don't really know who's listening to your radio show. Some of them could be Republicans, some could be Democrat, liberal. We really don't know who's listening and we don't know what people get out of these things. And everybody has the right to have a broad view on life and to not necessarily go along with any political party.

Ray Richardson:

Well, that's right. And you're also heard on the 95s here at News Talk, WLOB, and that's a sports station primarily, but we carry you. And you know, someone may wake up and want to hear what's happening with Tom Brady, and they also may want to hear what's happening with Donald Trump. And the thing is people are very diverse creatures. They have very diverse interests. And I think that's why you're such a good fit for us here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and I've enjoyed being on the sports talk radio station because I've heard that there are guys that I actually talked to somebody just this summer. He lives in Boston and he, he started looking for the Red Sox. So he was on 95.5, he started hearing my show, and he began going out on Sunday mornings and sitting in his driveway in his truck, listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio podcast, which has become Love Maine Radio, and. And said, I really enjoy your guests. I really enjoy what you've talked about. And. And I was kind of surprised. Like, I like sports well enough. My kids play sports. You know, I'm a Red Sox fan, and. But you just don't know. You don't know who's out there listening.

Ray Richardson:

And that's why we do this. That's why I do the morning show. That's why you do what you do. You know, you never know who's listening, and you never know what you might say that might connect with an individual. And either it prompts them to contact you and tell you something you didn't know, or maybe they pick up something from you that they didn't know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm interested, Ray, because you and I met in 2008, and this was a time that we had just published our Daily Tread. This was. It was an interesting turning point in my life because we were honoring my friend Hanley Dunning, who died in a car accident in Guatemala, and trying to raise money for her organization, Safe Passage, which educates children who live outside the Guatemala City dump. So I came on the one time I talked to you about the event that was upcoming at the Portland Museum of Art, and we ended up getting a lot of followers then. But it kind of. It set off an interesting chain of events for you and I, and we have kind of continued to intersect and bob and weave in each other's lives since 2008. Really?

Ray Richardson:

Yeah. It has been interesting. We had a mutual friend, Deborah Friedrich, who connected us with your book. I really didn't know a lot about Safe Passage at the time. I do remember when she passed away in the car accident, because it was all over the news, and I just thought what you were doing was wonderful, the fact that you were honoring the life of your friend, not by just saying you're sorry, but taking a definitive action, creating this book that honored what she was doing and raised money to help perpetuate it forward.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it's also been interesting for me because after that happened, my son Campbell, took a gap year. He was finishing up at Yarmouth, graduated from Yarmouth. He had decided to go Bowdoin, but then he took a year in between high school and college and went to Guatemala. And I had a chance to visit him down there. And it really brought home the reason why we do these things, the reason why we actually make an effort to raise money for kids who don't have maybe enough food to eat, don't have a great education. And we've heard over the years, I've had people come up to me and they've said, you know, hearing about this book, hearing about Hanley, hearing about Safe Passage, it made me want to do something. My kid's going down. My kid's doing a gap year and volunteering. I decided to sponsor a child. So things that you start and you plant seeds for, they can actually germinate and sprout and grow, and you just don't really know what's going to happen in the future.

Ray Richardson:

And you never know who else knows about it. One of the interesting things that happened for my wife, Dede, and I out of this as we got to know about Safe Passage and really learned a lot through you. My nephew, Logan Cummings, out in Windham, I know him like you would know your nephew. I had no idea how he knew about this or was involved with it. He was raising money and actually took a week and went down during Thanksgiving, I think, of his junior or senior year, and spent time down there working with the kids at the landfill. And it was a real turning point for him, I think, in his life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's been interesting for me because so we have the Safe Passage. We have our daily tread. And this was a book that I created as a doctor. I'm a doctor. I'm not a book writer. I'm not a book publisher. And it set off this chain of events whereby, in addition to being a doctor and a mother and a writer, all of a sudden, I'm a book publisher. And then I came on the radio with. So then I became a radio. I don't know, I adopted the, quote, Dr. Lisa Persona, whatever that means.

Ray Richardson:

I think people like that Persona. That's what we called you whenever you were coming on. We always said Dr. Lisa. We didn't even say Belisle. We didn't say where you practice. It was just, Dr. Lisa's gonna be here. And when I would walk around town or be out at the mall during the holidays, people would come up and say, how's Dr. Lisa? And just. It's one of those things that happens when you're in the public eye, which

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

is funny for me, because I'm the oldest of 10 children, and my dad and mom, they raised all of us to be very humble. They raised all of us to not really be in the public eye and to actually have a Persona or be branded in a specific way for Me was strange. Probably not for you, because I think you're used to having Ray Richardson's show. But it was a strange turn of events for me as a doctor, Somebody who's very private, deals with patients one on one. Even my writing is very. It's very introspective. And here I am being called Dr. Lisa, and people are listening to me. But this is something that I've learned that sometimes you just need to jump in. Sometimes there are opportunities that are presented that you just have to grab, and you just have to know that it might take you somewhere or it may not. But if you don't take the risk, then you can't really know. And after four years of doing this radio show, I have learned so much about people myself. Logistics, planning, communications. There's so many things that I didn't know I didn't know. And I've been able to wrap those into all of the work that I do, all the writing I do. Seeing patients, being a mother. It's fascinating.

Ray Richardson:

It is incredible. You know, when you're a talk show host, you're out there with your opinion, you're talking about ideas, whether it's what you do, or to a larger degree, what I do. Because my show is really built around my opinion on political and cultural issues. But what really happens when you're in this business, if you'll admit it to yourself, is that you really learn from the audience. They may learn something from you, but you learn so much more from the audience. And that's been one of the most gratifying pieces for me, having done this now for 11 years, is what I've learned about other people and learned about their journeys. Everybody's life is interesting, even when they don't believe that, it's still true. And it's been a great privilege for me to learn about people's journeys, because, you know, life is really not a destination. I mean, we were born and we die. So I guess you could say death is the ultimate destination. But the truth is, life is a journey. And everybody's journey is different. And everybody's journey is interesting, whether they'll admit it or not.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I think that's really true. And the people that I meet through the radio show are slightly different than the people that I meet through the articles I write for Maine Magazine and Old Port magazine and are slightly different than the people who come to see me as patients or the people that I know in the community. And so even that has been interesting. And how people communicate their stories and how you interact with them and how much they'll tell you honestly. And it's really amazing how much people have been willing to share as they've come on the radio show and had conversations with me about their lives.

Ray Richardson:

Well, you've got a very comfortable Persona about you. Obviously, that's your bedside manner as a doctor. And so that would easily translate into doing the job that you're doing here. And when people are comfortable with you, they open up, even if they don't think they will. I've had many people over the years come into the studio and say, look, I'm really reticent to talk about this. A lot of times it's veterans. Veterans are very humble about what they've done for this country. They're not looking for accolades. They're not even looking for thanks. But their stories are incredible, and they're important because sometimes those stories can help someone else. Maybe it inspires someone, or maybe it lets someone know that they're going through the same thing this veteran's going through, and it's okay. And so when people are comfortable with you, they will open up. And that's a tribute to you. And I'm sure the bedside manner that you use. I know it's an old phrase, bedside manner, but bedside manner you use in your medical practice.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think the biggest thing that I can do for patients, really, is just listen to them, which doesn't always translate into a great radio because, you know, you actually need to fill some space with some words. But the nice thing about asking a question on the radio, on the Love Maine Radio show, is that then somebody else can actually have their voice be heard. So for me, even being in this conversation with you is a little weird because I'm actually more used to being the one who sits back and listens and lets the other person tell their story. And that's the way that it has been as a writer and also as a doctor. So it's funny for me to have to, like, say it's a little bit of a struggle. It's a little bit of a struggle to sort of be the interviewee at times.

Ray Richardson:

Are you saying we've got you on the hot seat this morning? Is that what you're saying?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, you know, we. I. I do. It is interesting because when I used to come into wlob and if you remember, I used to bring my basket of fun. You did?

Ray Richardson:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Which was food. Not the kind of fun that you might think of, Ray, but it was food.

Ray Richardson:

Now, that's not fair.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, okay, so it was but it was apples.

Ray Richardson:

You didn't bring in ice cream, let's say that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay, right. It was organic foods that were grown locally. And I would talk about some of the health benefits of things like this. I think one time we had ginger in the basket and we talked about how that was good for colds. Or we had tomatoes one time in the basket and we talked about how those contain lycopene, which are good for prostate health. So I remember coming in and I remember having my. I don't know, was it like a seven minute segment and it was live.

Ray Richardson:

It was actually 11.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay, so 11 minutes. And I remember it went by so fast and it was so nerve wracking. And having to be on that way is. Is very different than even the type of radio that I do now where it's a conversation, it's taped. It doesn't feel like there's as much pressure, but I feel like what we need to do as human beings is constantly be willing to step outside our comfort zone and even be willing to feel a little uncomfortable and humiliated, perhaps, and at risk, because you never gain anything from sitting exactly where you've always sat. It's only when you move over a little bit and then move over a little bit further that maybe you can find yourself in a new place.

Ray Richardson:

So I must be gaining a lot then, because every day I'm in a humiliated position. I'm just out here saying this, that, and the other. And, you know, it's what I think, and it's pretty interesting how people respond to it. But I know exactly what you're talking about. You know, if you always stay where you're comfortable, you never really experience life. You and I talked about this. If you'll recall, before you started this, I kept saying to you, it's there. I can see it. I can see it. Do you remember this?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, I do. Yes.

Ray Richardson:

And I knew it was there. You reminded me in many ways of my wife, Dede. I don't want to go too far with this, but when we first got married, I could just see all the amazing stuff inside of her. She was extraordinarily shy, which you may find hard to believe now, but she was extraordinarily shy. We first moved to Maine. We really didn't know anybody. We're from the south, from Florida. And, you know, it's hard to remember. There weren't always ATMs everywhere and there weren't always cell phones. And one day I said to her, we wanted some pizza. And I said, well, call them up. And Order it. And she's like, oh, no, I can't do that. And I'm like, here's the deal. If you don't call and order this pizza, we're never going to eat again because I'm not buying any food at the grocery store, any of this. And finally she did, but she was so painfully shy. Now she's a woman that will stand up and say, da, da, da, da, da, da, and you better listen to her. She has gone from being this very shy, demure to this very confident, demure woman. And it's amazing. I saw that same thing in you as a radio host. I knew you had a specific kind of genre that would work well based on your personality. And I know this went a little long, but really I think it's important when other people see things in another human being that they tell them and try to help bring them out.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I definitely think that's true. And sometimes we might see these things in ourselves, but we need to have almost permission. I mean, the idea of permission is very important. When I was recently in Spain, my son is a senior in college and he actually, it's kind of funny, he decided not to go to Bowdoin, which was where originally he got accepted. He was going to go there after he went to Safe Passage. That's where I went to school. We were very excited about this. He came back from Guatemala and he said, you know what? I have a great scholarship from the University of Maine. They're going to cover all of my credit hours. I can get out with no debt. And I can't have gone to Guatemala and seen how little people have financially and feel good about the amount of money that we're going to spend on this private education. And I had to respect where he was coming from. So now he's in his last year at the University of Maine where he's studying biochemistry, Spanish. And we brought him to Madrid where he's doing a semester. And the reason I talk about this in terms of permission is when you're in a foreign country, even if you know the language, you actually have to give yourself permission to speak it and be okay with not having the right accent or not having the right words. I mean, it's very humbling in many ways because we all want to be perfect all the time. But when what I saw was when I was over there and I was sort of stumbling along with the language, my 14 year old would kind of give me a sideways glance and be like, mom, this is so embarrassing. I can't Believe you're trying to speak Spanish. But then when Campbell came over and he knew more, it gave her permission to start speaking Spanish. It gave her permission to say things like que tal? And como estas? And it was great to watch, because I think that when somebody sees something in you and you start to kind of, I don't know, emerge, then it gives other people the permission to emerge themselves. So it's like this amazing, amazing chain of events that can take place if you have the courage to just, I don't know, just open up a little and see.

Ray Richardson:

I understand exactly what you're saying, because I see it around me. I think my parents would tell you, and I know my wife would tell you that throughout my entire life, I don't seek permission. I usually beg for forgiveness. And it's just kind of the way I've lived my life. But I know exactly what you're talking about, because I see it even in my children. Sometimes they will start to do something, and then they'll look for this acknowledgement that what they're doing is okay, as though. And they don't need my permission. Three of my four children are adults now, but they'll look for this. It's okay to do this. And I say to them all the time, just do it. Just do what you're gonna do. And if it doesn't work out, go beg whoever you need to beg for forgiveness. But I know what you're talking about. I see it a lot of people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think it's really common.

Ray Richardson:

Yeah, it is.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I've been watching my youngest, Sophie, who's now a freshman. So her older and her older sister are kind of the ask, beg forgiveness sorts. They have enough self confidence, and they're older, so they can be in this place where they can go out and be themselves. Abby's swimming at Providence. She's a sophomore. She has a strong sense of self. She's always been that kind of just go in there, get it done. And Campbell is kind of similar. He's always known his own strengths. And my youngest, even though she knows her own strengths, she's at this very delicate age. She's in high school, you know, which is when we're all trying to understand the fabric of the culture. You know, it's a time where she's trying to figure out how to maintain her identity and also fit in. And also, she doesn't know what her identity is. How can you maintain something you're not quite sure of? But the funny thing is that what I've seen Over time is that life is just kind of a continuation of high school or maybe even junior high, that we're all always in our minds, that awkward, gawky kid who hasn't been asked to dance, you know? You know, when Stairway to Heaven comes on.

Ray Richardson:

Now, let's be honest. You were never not asked to dance. You know, that's true.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

All right, well, maybe I got asked to dance, but. But we all feel that way, right? You know, I think that there's always this. I mean, how many times? Because I go to a lot of events. I know you do, too. And, you know, you dress up nicely, you go, you have your friends, you talk to them. But how many times have you gone to an event like, we're going to the Mitchell Gala that's coming up tonight for George Mitchell's foundation? And how many times have you gone in that setting and felt like you never left your high school years? You know, that you're kind of. Well, actually, I'm asking the wrong person. You probably always feel completely comfortable when you go into these situations. You have no idea what I'm talking about, do you?

Ray Richardson:

No. You know, and really, that's a tribute to my mom and dad. My mother, when we were growing up. And keep in mind, we grew up down south, so I had kind of a proper Southern upbringing. It was extremely important for my mother, for my brother and I to be comfortable if we were in the soup kitchen, if that's where life took us, or to be comfortable in the White House. So that's how my mom and dad raised us. We used to have manners week in my home, where we would literally dress for dinner and do everything appropriately, but then we would also go serve in our church's kitchen so that we were comfortable there. Realizing we don't know where life's going to take us. And that was so critical for my mom and dad that no matter where we ended up, up, down, or somewhere in between, that we were comfortable. So I've always been kind of comfortable wherever I am. I figure, you know, I live my life based on what God tells me, and I figure if I'm there, it's because he put me there for some reason.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I actually believe that. I believe that there's some sort of emergence that happens where if you kind of put yourself in the right place, then the next thing happens. The next thing happens. But I guess my experience, my mom was always. She's a teacher. And when I was growing up, she stayed home with all 10 of us. So she was very introspective. And she was very much a homebody and very quiet. And my dad was always out, you know, he would be the guy at the grocery store that knew every single person that he walked by. So I had both of these role models, you know, and my dad is still the guy that if he goes to a church dinner, you'll be the last one there washing the dishes. And my mom helps people in a very different way. So I had both of that type of role modeling. And I still, at the ripe age of I'm not even gonna tell you, but multiple decades into my life, I still find myself kind of having to take a deep breath when I go into a new place and feeling like I was, I'm back at the junior high dance, like, okay, who's watching? Who's not watching? You know, who do I, you know? And so it's, I think it's even struggling with that and knowing like you could actually get something out of that if you stick with it, if you engage, if you work through your discomfort, if you know that this feeling of being at the junior high dance is going to pass for you, you do these things. And I guess I'm belaboring a point

Ray Richardson:

that no, and I get where you're coming from. I will say I'm 53, so this was many, many moons ago, but I played quarterback down south for 11 years. And in high school, thousands of people showed up for games. And if we made the playoffs one year, we had 23,000 people show up for a game. I mean, it was crazy. But football down south is different. One of the things my dad used to say to me, if I had a really good game, he would say, son, you hear those guys that are cheering your name and chanting your name right now? I'd say, yes, sir. Next week, when you throw the interception that loses the game, those same people are going to be booing you and saying a lot of bad things about you. And you've got to hear both of those through the same ear because number one, they don't know you, they just know what you did in the moment. And number two, if you live your life seeking the approval of others, you're going to be miserable. So I never have.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, maybe it's because I was a cross country skier and it's very cold. And not that I didn't have thousands of people showing up to cheer me on.

Ray Richardson:

Well, they weren't cheering me, it was my team.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But yes, and you know what? I hear you and I think that this is another interesting thing that I've learned in four years of doing the radio show is when you are willing to put yourself out there, whether you're doing a radio show, whether you're writing, whether you're doing a television segment, you. You are putting yourself. You're putting yourself at risk for criticism, for praise. And you're right. You have to be willing to hear all of these things. And it's not always easy. And I think as a doctor, where we're trained the way we're trained, I'm not sure that we're always. I don't know that I got any sort of education on how to hear criticism and praise.

Ray Richardson:

You know, I think the thing is, and I say this to people all the time with my show because it is largely based around my opinion of the issues today, of the day. And the culture is if you and I are conversing and you have an opinion on something, I don't think it's reasonable for you to expect your opinion to change my mind. What is reasonable is, is that if you have some information that I didn't consider when I came to my conclusion, and you offer that now, that might change my mind. And so I think a lot of times in our society, no matter what the issue is politics, sports, love, raising children, no matter what it is, that if you allow others to dictate how you think about something, you're always going to be seeking that. And I just. I'm not that way. Look, I don't want people to ever think that I'm rude. That would be something that would really upset my mom because she taught my brother and I to be respectful. Extremely important. I certainly want my wife and children to be happy when they see me. But I don't sit here three hours a day, five days a week and think on the other end of the people that are listening on our five stations or on the Internet around the country. Oh, God, I hope they agree with me. I've never had that thought even once. I just say what I think. Hopefully it's a conversation starter, and then maybe we learn something from each other.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I think that's a little different than what I have always done as a doctor. I actually have to come to some kind of. I don't want to call it consensus, because that's. It's. I think if you're in a family situation, it's a consensus, but you have to come to some collaborative place with your patient. So you actually. So it's. It's just slightly different. You know, I can't If I go in with a patient, I can't go in and say, well, I think this, this, and this. And you're just going to do what I think because they. Maybe they'll say yes, they'll nod, and then they'll leave and they'll say, wow, I really don't agree with her. I'm not going to do it anyway. And it just doesn't really get me anywhere. So kind of this collaborative, this consensus, you know, I think that this is what we learn in medicine. And honestly, I think that's really the way that medicine has to go. So I think what you and I are saying is kind of the same thing. You know, if you are patterned a certain way because of your background, your training, education, it's going to get you one place if you're a radio host, it's going to get you a different place if you're a doctor, Right.

Ray Richardson:

But at the end of the day, if you're happy with what you're doing and you're doing the best you can, that's all that really matters. You talked about consensus in a family. It's really funny. In my family, everybody thinks I'm this. Well, it is true. I'm old and I'm stodgy, and now I'm fat. So I think I'm this old, stodgy, fat white guy. So I must be this really conservative, you know, hardline parent, but I'm actually the most liberal parent in America. I think at least my kids think that and their friends think that. I. We don't really have any rules for our kids, and we never really have. We've said to them, you should be proud of the name that you've been given, and we expect you to live up to that. But that's really the rule, and that's it. Curfews, all those kinds of things we've never done and we've been lucky, our kids, and it's really a tribute to my wife, our kids, and I know they're mine, and I'm bragging here, but it's worked out well. They're great kids, they're doing well in their lives. They're good community kids. They do stuff in the community. They're mentors to younger kids and. And I just think that we're complex individuals and how you treat things. My grandmother used to say to me, she was my favorite person on the planet. Circumstances alter cases. And what she was trying to get me to understand was, is that you can't apply a certain standard to every single thing you do because everything you do is different. So if you're always applying the same thing to everything, you're always going to come up with the same answer and half the time at least you're going to be wrong.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I completely agree with you. And that's true when it comes to parenting, because I have three completely different children. You know, as the oldest of 10 kids, I have nine completely different siblings and my patients are all very different. So you can follow a set of patterns only so far, which is very interesting when I think about medicine, because I think in medicine we've gotten to a place of following algorithms and quality measures and meeting our numbers. And I think there is something to be said for good systems, having good systems in place and trying to be consistent about the types of things that we offer. But I also think that if we get too locked into a system, too locked into a linear way of thinking, then it can cause problems in the longer term.

Ray Richardson:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So.

Ray Richardson:

Well, take medicine for an example. If I go to you for help as a doctor, I'm counting on two things. I'm counting on the fact that you're well educated and then I'm counting on the fact that you're going to apply your intuition. While this process may say a certain thing is happening, you've got experience as a doctor, you've been around a long time. I'm hoping that your intuition will say, my education tells me this, but my intuition, my experience tells me something else. And maybe we ought to look at both scenarios. That's what I would count on. And my doctor here in town, I don't go to him that often. I should go more often. But I will say to him, look, just give me your best educated guess. I know you're not God. I'm not asking you to put this in granite, but what are you thinking? What's going on in your mind as you're trying to help me diagnose this? And I think that that's a whole different process that if you weren't open minded, you couldn't do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I absolutely agree and I think it's hard because those of us who have been in medicine and I started medical school a year before my son was born and he's going to be 22 next month.

Ray Richardson:

So even though you won't tell us your age, that proves you're not 25, right?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I think the fact that I have children who are in their 20s now, that probably tells you about how old I am. But you know, the training that I received is different than the training that doctors my dad's age received. He's 69, and he just stopped seeing patients last month. It's different from the type of training that doctors these days are receiving. And my son is going to go to medical school at Tufts. He's already been accepted. His training will be completely different. And it's been very interesting to see how the approach has been that we've gone from a very paternalistic way of looking at medicine, where basically what doctors had was education and knowledge. So, you know, you couldn't get the knowledge anywhere else. You went to see your doctor. Now everybody has access to knowledge. So now what we need is experience, insight, and again, collaboration.

Ray Richardson:

Let me ask you this question because you just brought up a really good point. Stephanie Anderson, who was the district attorney here in Cumberland county, has been in the studio with me many times, and she said because of the proliferation of knowledge to the Internet and then that false knowledge that comes from television shows, it is more difficult for her to get convictions with a jury because they're expecting a level of evidence they see on TV that doesn't actually exist in real life. This is TV with the proliferation of knowledge to the Internet, like WebMD and those kinds of things. You know, if I have something going on with one of my kids, first thing I do is I go to the Internet and try to read up on it. How does that change how you practice when someone walks in and even though what they think they have is absolutely not what they have, but they're certain that's what it is? How does it change how you do what you do?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You know, I have grown to be a very good negotiator. I have grown to really be able to kind of pull out where it is someone is coming from and what their expectations of the visit are. But it does make it very different. I've had patients who are convinced that they're having a mini stroke, you know, something really horrible that one wouldn't want to have. And it's something. Maybe it's like a, you know, a cluster headache. And I've seen this so many times that I, you know, I can't. I can never be 100% sure that they're not having a mini stroke. But I'm pretty sure, based on my experience and their symptoms, that it's. It's not a mini stroke. And I think that it's an interesting balance that we all have to achieve, because I really like it when patients come in and they show me new things and they say, here's some new research and I can't know everything. I mean, I just re certified in family practice two years ago and the amount of information that has changed since I first became board certified in family medicine is incredible. The amount of things they were asking me questions about like velocity of gunshot. I don't even know enough about guns to even know what I'm talking about. But like, when do I ever see that? And yet if you're a family doctor or really any kind of doctor, anything could walk it through your door at any moment. So you just have to assume I don't know everything. Patients are going to bring me stuff, they're going to ask me questions, they're going to be worried about things that they never would have been worried about before. And yeah, you have to be willing to be flexible and at the same time kind of stick with your guns and say, listen, I know enough about this that I want to put your mind at ease somewhat. We're going to do these tests, we're going to rule out all the bad stuff, we're going to look for all the common stuff and we're going to come to some sort of answer or even non answer together. And that's an interesting place to be.

Ray Richardson:

It is. It's tough. When my daughter Lizzie was two, her appendix burst and we were out of town. We were actually at the presidential inauguration and my sister in law was keeping her. She thought she had the flu because she was very small, very compressed. And so when we got home, she seemed to be much better. And then all of a sudden the next morning we got up, she was so sick she turned gray. So we took her to the doctor and she said, why don't you go to the emergency room? She looks really dehydrated. So we went down and the whole time Lizzie couldn't talk very well. But she would say, daddy, tummy hurt. She kept pointing where the appendix was. And I'd had mine out when I was 14. And the doctor just kept saying, you know, it's so unlikely at 2 years old it really doesn't happen. We rarely see this. Finally I said, look, I weigh 300 pounds. You're gonna have to get a crane to get me out of here. Isn't there something you can do? And he said, what do you want, like an ultrasound? And I said, yeah. Don't they do that on pregnant women? I don't know much about this by the way. He said, yeah. I said, you can see the baby, right? He said, yeah. I said, well, can you see that? He said, not likely. I said, I don't care what it costs. Do it. He did it, and he could just see the poison in her everywhere. And it was seeping out, but I guess her body was so compressed it was trapping it, which is why. And we got lucky. He said, one more day of this, she probably wouldn't have made it. I say to people all the time here, a person has to be their own best advocate. But we can't be our own best advocate to the extent that we don't listen to you, because you have the training, you have the experience, you have the education, and frankly, you probably have the intuition.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I think that's really important because for me, I try so hard to really understand where people are coming from. And when I have a patient who comes to see me for the first time, and they carry with them all of their past experiences, which may not always be positive with the medical profession. And they already come in, and instead of just being an advocate for themselves, they're actually being maybe a little aggressive. They're being a little on the offensive side of things. And they treat me as if I. I don't know, again, somehow I represent every bad doctor that they've ever seen who didn't listen to them. You know, that's hard for me to get past to a place where I can, again, be collaborative with them. And I think that, you know, for me, having practiced Chinese medicine and acupuncture and dealing with energy work and practiced qigong and done a lot of work with herbs and foods and sort of gentler means of healing for many years, I've learned to listen in ways that are very helpful to patients. You know, I can understand things about patients that they may not even understand about themselves and that I can reflect back to them and have them be very. Have it be very useful for them. But they have to be willing to. While they're being their own, own best advocate, they have to be willing to drop the defenses and understand that we're both human beings in this place at this time, trying to figure things out,

Ray Richardson:

and you both want the same outcome, which is a healthy patient. I think it's one of the things I've always found most interesting about you is that you are educated in Western and Eastern medicine, which are two very different approaches to healing. And so you have to have an open mind to be able to have done that, because a lot of things we do here, we hear it all the time, and we know that it's a problem in our society. First thing we do is prescribe something. I don't get a sense that's your first approach, and I think that's influenced by your background in Eastern medicine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think that is true. And also I was this way before I studied Chinese medicine at all. It's an interesting when I was a resident at Maine Medical center, they did a conference and at the time they were calling it complementary medicine. Now we call it integrative medicine because we want it to be part of everything that's offered. At the time, that was something. It was like something that was an adjunct to what was out there, like acupuncture or massage. And I was interested even then because what I was seeing with patients is sometimes the stuff that we gave them to make them better would give them so many side effects that we gave them a new product. And I always say to patients who come in, I don't want you leaving here worse than when you came because that goes against the first do no harm idea exactly. That we all as doctors really aspire to. Well, people have been listening. I know this is about the time that we usually take a little break and talk about our sponsors. So I think we're going to do that now, Ray, and we'll talk more about medicine when we come back.

Ray Richardson:

That sounds great. Look forward to it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This week it's my great privilege to actually talk about the sponsors who have made Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast and Love Maine radio available to you as a listener for the past four years. First, I'd like to talk about Maine Magazine. This is a magazine that I've written for for two years as the Wellness Editor. And I'd like to tell you about the first Maine Live event, which is taking place on September 24th at the Portland Museum of Art. This is presented by your friends at Maine Magazine. Take the day to be inspired by bold tales of creation, grit and vision from 15 Maine speakers. Tickets are $100 and are sure to go fast. In fact, I think I heard today there's only a few left. Find out more@mainliveevent.com also. Love Maine Radio is brought to you by MacPage, an accounting and management consulting firm that believes the path to success is paid by their ability to build latter lasting, meaningful relationships with their clients. Mac Page Accessible, approachable and accountable. For more information go to MacPage.com I'm really excited about Berlin City Honda because our family has bought four cars from the Berlin City group of auto dealerships over the last two years. Love Maine Radio is brought to you by Berlin City Honda where the car buying experience is all about easy. After all, life is complicated enough and buying a car shouldn't be. That's why the Berlin City Honda team goes to the extra mile by pre discounting their vehicles and focusing their efforts on being open, honest and all about getting you on the road. Berlin City recently won the 2015 Women's Choice Award, a strong testimony to their ability to deliver a different kind of car buying experience. Berlin City Honda of Portland Easy. It's how buying a car should be. Go to Berlin city honda main me.com for more information. Finally, we've been with Apothecary By Design for several years now and in fact host a series of events with them and have live speakers in our 75 Market street Maine Magazine offices. There was a time when the Apothecary was a place where you could get safe, reliable medications carefully prepared by our experienced professionals, coupled with care and attention focused on you and your unique health concerns. Apothecary by Design is built around the forgotten notion that you don't just need your prescriptions filled, you need attention, advice and individual care. Visit their website apothecaryabydesign.com or drop by the store at 84 Marginal Way in Portland and experience pharmacy care the way that it's meant to be. Again, thank you so much to our sponsors and I hope that maybe we'll see you at Maine Live coming up this week. And now we're back to talk with Ray Richardson. Thanks for being with me, Ray.

Ray Richardson:

It's been great. You know, it's been a while since you've been on my show, but we always enjoyed those segments when Ted Talbot was with me a few years back. Hard to believe, has been gone a little over four and a half years, but he's got a cushy job with the governor now. You know how that works. We always had such great fun with you, but we also learned a lot, particularly when you bring in your basket of fun. That was always great. So it's good to be with you today.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'm enjoying it and it's what I've learned about life in general is that the information that you get and the experiences that you have, you couldn't have foreseen that you would have them when you were, say, 18 years old and going out into the world. So the relationship that we've had with WLOB and WPEI and you yourself has been kind of fascinating for me. I'm not sure that you and I ever would have met, perhaps if we hadn't had this initial our daily treasure relationship.

Ray Richardson:

Well, Deborah, our mutual friend, would not have had a reason to connect us because she wanted to have you come on and help promote the event at the museum. I think it was perfect. You know, you made an extraordinary point. I say this to my kids all the time. I think it's a hard thing we do in our lives is we ask an 18 or 19 year old to make a decision about what they're going to do with their lives for the rest of their lives. I was 42 years old, been married about 20 years and had four children when I made the decision to get into this business. It was a huge career change. It was perfect because I wanted to really try to change the political dynamic in the state. And some would say I did, some would say I haven't. Regardless of all that, it's been an extraordinary run for the last 11 years. So you made a great point. You never know what life is going to hand you. And, you know, there's that old saying, if you're handed lemons, try to make lemonade. Whatever you're handed, just try to make the best out of it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's really true. And this last year, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, which was completely unexpected from my standpoint because I'm young, healthy, no family history, ate well, didn't take hormones. I mean, just none of the risk factors that one would think about for breast cancer. And it became this. Unfortunately, it was early stage, so I didn't have the same cancer journey that many people have. I chose to have a bilateral mastectomy, which was a pretty big deal, and multiple surgeries, and have gotten to. I'm really in a good place of healing now. But the experience is one that I wouldn't have asked for. And yet it taught me so much that I couldn't have known any other way. It's very strange to be a doctor and then become a patient and have to sit in the waiting room and see what everybody else experiences. I mean, I'd been to the doctor, as in preventive care mode, you know, for my annual physicals. But to have to see what it's like to feel the stress, to feel the anxiety, just to feel the boredom of a doctor who's running late, to have to go through a surgery and have surgical drains coming out of your body. I mean, some graphic stuff that I'm not sure that anybody really wants to hear about. But, you know, this is. It's kind of the stuff of life. It's the messiness. They call it the Full catastrophe is what it's been called. It's just. There's the soup. You get in the soup. You don't know what you're going to find floating around in the soup.

Ray Richardson:

Well, you're laid raw at that point. You're completely vulnerable, and your life literally is in someone else's hands. And I know you like to be in control, just like I like to be in control. I'm a control freak. And there are many activities I don't engage in because I don't want to be out of control. I never have. I've never done drugs, not because I'm a goody goody, but I'm a control freak. I've never been drunk. I'm 53. People are, like, astounded by that. I'm not a teetotaler by any stretch, but I'm a control freak. I can't imagine being drunk and out of control if someone needed me. When you're sick, like you're talking about, you're completely vulnerable. Your life is laid bare. But when you get through it, on the other side, you find out who you really are. I have a good friend, Kelly McLennan, and I'm not talking out of school because it's been very public. Several years ago, she had a very rare form of cancer, and it was not really sure how it was gonna go. She got through it. She's amazing. She's doing great. And her life has taken this amazing, incredible turn because she realized no matter what life throws at her, she's capable of handling it. And she's always been vivacious. She's got a smile that lights up the room when she walks in, but now that smile's bigger and she walks taller, and you can just. I said to her the other day, my wife Dede, and I had dinner with her at DiMillo's, and I said, kelly, you know, I've always thought you were a beautiful woman, but you're incredibly beautiful now, having come back through this, because you can just see it on you. You've got a different perspective on the world, and I also kind of see that in you today. I haven't seen you in a while, but I kind of see that new as well. You've got a different. You're just your appearance. You have a different look on the world because you've come through something major and, you know, you kicked its butt.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. And I got a new set of cans to, you know, to prove it.

Ray Richardson:

Well, I wasn't going to mention that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I actually had a Patient the other day that she told me that they looked really nice. And I was like, yeah, I put a lot of work into to these ladies.

Ray Richardson:

So, you know, you see, if I had said that, that would have been inappropriate.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You know, we gotta laugh about this stuff. I mean, it's kind of ridiculous, really. I mean, I have these. It's actually pretty great. I mean, I got to have the boobs I never had in the first place, right? You know, I nursed my three kids. So by the end of that, things just don't look quite the same. Now they're like, better than ever before. But I also have these two very large, very prominent scars that, you know, if people were to see my lovely ladies, they would know that I've been through a battle. You know, it's right there on my chest. And you gotta laugh about this, because it is just some of the things that. They're just so ridiculous for me. I look at myself and I think, yeah, they're great. They're fake. You know, they're not real. They're a part of me, and they're not a part of me, and it's kind of ridiculous.

Ray Richardson:

Well, I don't know. I don't want to say anything inappropriate here. Let's just say the package is well put together. Is that a fair way to say it?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. Thank you, Ray. I appreciate that.

Ray Richardson:

And, you know, you're right. You got to be able to laugh at this. I had the privilege. I've been involved in a lot of stuff with breast cancer. The breast cancer awareness license plate. I was involved with. With former state representative Meredith Strang Burgess. And my mother went through breast cancer in 2005, and I was invited to speak at a rally. And it was in Monument Square. It was a very cold night. Bob Marley was a cold morning. Bob Marley was there as well. And my wife was with me. And I said, can I. She said, just say what you're going to say. And so I got up and told about this very inspirational story of a friend of mine who was 44 that I went to high school with, who, like you, very fit, really, just takes great care of herself. Lives down in Florida, plays tennis every day, eats right, does everything right. And she ended up in a really bad place with breast cancer and had to have both of her breasts removed. But she's on the back end of it and she's well and she's doing good. So I told that story of triumph, and of course, people were cheering. So I looked at my wife and she just smiled. I Knew it was okay. And I said, and let's be honest, my wife has 44 double Ds. Nobody wants to protect the tatas more than I do. And they all just cheered there. About 3,000 women there, and they all just cheered, but they got it. You know, we were trying to inject a little humor here in a very serious situation, because if you don't, then all it is. Is dreary.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's true. And one thing that having cancer has. Has really just hit home. I always knew that life is so precious. I always knew this. And I always. It would always bother me when people would live these lives of dullness, dreariness, anger, hatefulness, resentment. What. You know, like, why you have one of these that we know of. Unless you believe in some sort of reincarnation or even if you believe in the afterlife, your life as you know it looks like this right now. And when you have cancer, when you have cells growing in your body that are sort of a threat to that life, and you come out the other side, you think, why am I wasting my time? And this is one thing lately that I've just had a lot less patience with, and that is bs, you know, Like, I'm feeling more and more. More wanting to be. Like, I love, love Maine radio. I love being, quote, unquote, Dr. Lisa. But I kind of feel like I want to tell it like it is because I don't want people to waste their time. I want people to understand that if you're not doing something that makes you happy and feeling passionate about your life, then you. You're wasting it. You're wasting it. And that's. That's just not right.

Ray Richardson:

You know, you're right about that. If you don't do something every day that puts you on the edge, that gives you a little bit of, oh, God, should I really be doing this? That something that really makes you reticent, and you go ahead and do it. If you don't do that, you're right. You're not living. I mean, yeah, your body, your heart may be beating, there may be blood going through your veins and arteries, you may be breathing the air, but you're not experiencing life. I don't know if you remember this or not. We talked a lot about this before you started your show. And I use the phrase live out loud.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I do remember this. Yes.

Ray Richardson:

And that's. I just think that's so important for people. You know, we're about to experience one of the most amazing periods of the year here in Maine. We're going to have this gorgeous cathedral of colors in our state where everything is so beautiful, and you get to see and appreciate the majesty of what God has given us. And if you're not out experiencing that, you're missing out. And I know we get defined by our jobs, and clearly, you know, you have the Persona now. Dr. Lisa I have the Persona of being a jackass, but, you know, that's okay. But at the end of the day, who I really am is this guy that just really loves his family, really loves this state. And I'm so grateful for what I've been given. And it's not all perfect. I don't want to sound like this is all, you know, panacea here. I've had a lot of ups. I've had a lot of downs. But what I've always had is an incredible wife who's loved me, four amazing children. I grew up in a family that I could not have. If God had allowed me to pick my parents, I would have picked those, too. And so even though there have been some lows, and they've been pretty low, how could I just not be grateful every moment of every day for this life? It's been. I know this sounds bragging or whatever, but it's been extraordinary. And it's been extraordinary because of the highs, and it's been extraordinary because of the low, because the lows have taught me to appreciate the highs.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think that's true. Right. You know, almost immediately after I met you, I lost a job that I had had for 10 years. I went through a divorce. I had to put my children through that. I had to move out of a house that I had been in for quite a long time. You know, I suffered through a lot of the things that everybody else suffered through with the economy. And then I had no sooner gotten. Gotten myself back on my feet and gotten together with a wonderful man who I love very much and his three kids. And then I get breast cancer. So it'd be very easy for me to say, oh, my goodness, like, what? Why does all this stuff keep getting thrown at me? But, you know, I would rather take it as great, now I can look at all the things that I have. I love being a doctor. I love being a mother. I love writing. I'm working on a couple of novels right now and a couple. Couple of other books. You know, I love that. I like the radio show. I love to sing. I like to go out dancing. I love to read. Enjoying the state of Maine. I mean, all these other things, all they Are. Is some sort as a foil, you know, the bad stuff, it's a foil for the good stuff so that you appreciate the good stuff that much more. And my patients actually have taught me that. Talking to my patients, I am sometimes amazed by what they have been through. And yet they love their lives.

Ray Richardson:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it's easy to think, oh, you know, Ray and Lisa, they're just being kind of Pollyanna ish about life. But it does. It's a conscious decision. It is a conscious decision to say, I'm going to look at life this way and I'm going to appreciate it and live out loud.

Ray Richardson:

No, I think you're right. And for me, it's not Pollyanna. People that know me personally, they know this is how I live. I am just so grateful for this experience. And that's not me being on the radio wanting to say something, something people want to hear. It's just true. If you, you know, I get a chance to meet so many extraordinary people. The privilege of the job that I do is not talking to people who are famous. That doesn't even impress me. The privilege, and has been the Privilege for my 11 years of doing this, is to meet people who have met tragedy head on, met it face to face, found a way to endure and then triumph over it. We have an amazing family in my hometown who lost their son. It was all over the papers a few years ago. He was shot and murdered the Friday night after Thanksgiving. I think it was 2013. I hope I'm saying this right. And to watch these two people and their children show the extraordinary grace and never being brought completely down by it, even in their grief, has been a privilege. And I meet so many veterans families where someone may have been killed in action during the war, and the family is devastated, but they don't allow the devastation to define them. They triumph over it. So how could you be a guy like me and not be grateful for every moment? As you know, my wife has been ill for about a year and a half now, and it's been difficult. But we live by God, never gives you more than you can handle. We will occasionally say to him, I wish you didn't have so much confidence in us, but how could you not be grateful?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I agree. And I'm particularly grateful for the people that are okay with saying, you know what, life is really hard for me right now. And yes, I'm still grieving the loss of my daughter 20 years later and really telling it like it is. I don't expect people to show up and say Life is great. Even though I lost my child to cancer, you know, I'm grateful for the honesty. I'm grateful for the chance to know that life is messy. And I'm. And it's really. It's like the full spectrum. I love being human and knowing that I can experience a broad range of emotions as a person, not just as a doctor or as a writer or a radio show host.

Ray Richardson:

Jimmy Valvano, do you know that name?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I do.

Ray Richardson:

Is the Jimmy V Foundation. And I'm paraphrasing here, but he said in one of his last public appearances, if you don't laugh and you don't cry, if you don't do something that brings you to tears, and if you just don't experience the joy, and I'm paraphrasing, then you're not living. You gotta live, because that's ever. All of this makes you who you are. You know, you. You just said doctor, mother, wife. Now, paramore. Is that a correct. Nice way to say it? Radio host, author, you write for the magazine, you're working on two novels. You're a lot of things. And you're also a breast cancer survivor. That makes you into a pretty dynamic and interesting person. And the thing that I wish people would do is stop for a moment and just realize that no matter how bland they may think their life is or how tough they may think their life is, these experiences, Experiences are leading them somewhere, all of these experiences, and they're going to take them to a place they could never have imagined. But they've got to be willing to recognize the opportunity in any situation. And I know I sound like a motivational speaker here or whatever, but it's what I believe it is, who I am.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's very. I know this about you. I know that this is who you are. And I also know that one of the reasons why you and I both love to bring guests into the studio is that we want to share that access with the people who are listening to us. And over the years, I've probably. You and I have probably had many similar guests in common, but authors, lawyers, political people, and because we have this privilege of having these conversations, it's wonderful to have the opportunity to share that with the people who are listening. And it's great because. Because you can get just as much out of listening to a conversation that somebody else is having as having the conversation yourself in many ways. And it's. I don't know, in some ways, it's kind of the perfect job, really. You know, it is.

Ray Richardson:

And as you know, like you, I wrote a newspaper column for 14 years. And last night, thankfully, thanks to the good Lord, because it almost killed me, I finished my third book and I am halfway through my first novel. So, like you, I love the writing, I love the conversation, I love sitting around and having a cup of coffee with someone and learning their experience.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I would be remiss in my official radio show host duties if I didn't ask you how people can find out more about the books that you have written.

Ray Richardson:

Probably the easiest way to go to my personal website, which is Ray Richardson.net my latest book, and I'll just be very quick, is Every Stone has a story. And it's about the story of Reads Across America, the organization that takes the Veterans Reads down to Arlington national and now all over the country. It's a glimpse into the organization, how it got started, how they sustain themselves, and now how it's become what everyone knows. And the privilege of that book was to learn how human beings have triumphed over the loss of a loved one one and found a way to keep going and are now inspiring others. And the website for that is everystonehasastory.com portion of the proceeds goes back to Reads Across America.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Fortunately, in my family I have military that have served and come back safely, so I do not know the devastation that is associated with losing a loved one. But I do know how important it is to protect the country. And I appreciate the work that you've done to shine a light on the veterans and their families.

Ray Richardson:

It's been a privilege. You know, these folks are so amazing. Morrow Wooster, who started this in 1992, it was really just a gesture of kindness. He had some wreaths left over from the Christmas season and he wanted to do something meaningful with them. So he got permission to take them down to Arlington. And in the oldest section, which is section 27, he was allowed to lay 5,000 wreaths. What's significant about that is some of those graves are so old, the first one in 1860, nobody really goes there anymore because all the family and friends are long gone. So to honor those people who should be honored for the sacrifice they've made, it was just overwhelming to really I've known the Woosters for a number of years now and overwhelming to learn all of these details through the book.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm very glad that you that you did that. And one of the privileges of going back and practicing in Brunswick has been the opportunity to care for military families. And it's been pretty wonderful actually, because having having had Multiple. You know, my dad was in the Air National Guard for a really long time until they finally forced him out because he got a little too old. I had three siblings who were in the Middle east during the recent Middle east conflict. I have, you know, two siblings that have been with the Air Force after having gone to the Air force Academy for 20 years, are both orthopedic surgeons in the Air Force. So my grandfather flew in World War II as a navigator over Italy. But for me to be with military families on a day to day basis and see what they go through and see what it means to be a supporting spouse or a family member, a child that stays at home and waits for dad or mom to come back, I mean, it really just does remind you that there's no way that we can disconnect ourselves from what's going on in the, the greater world.

Ray Richardson:

You're right. And you know as well as I do, whenever a loved one is serving, whenever they're deployed, or whether they're here on American soil, the family left at home trying to navigate through life. And it is a navigation they're serving right along with them. So I'm glad that you mentioned the families because they're as critical as the person in uniform.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I agree. I know we've talked about a lot of things and those of you who are listening and have been listening for the past four years and have listened to Ray's show and have supported both Ray and I in our writing and our radio show careers and just personally and professionally, I don't want to speak for Ray. He's very good at speaking for himself. But I have a lot of gratefulness for you. I'm very, very grateful and I appreciate your kind of bearing with me as I'm doing this kind of live to tape version of the fourth anniversary show of Dr. Lisa Radio Hour now. Love Maine Radio. And I don't know, Ray, it's always interesting to spend time with you and today's been great.

Ray Richardson:

Yeah, it's been wonderful. It's been wonderful to reconnect. It's been a while. It's been a while since you've been on the show, but you've reminded me all of the wonderful things that I know about you and it's just good to see that again. And it's good to see you doing so well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'M doing great. And thanks to my family and friends for supporting me through breast cancer and everything else. And. And, Ray, it's. We'll do it again another four years.

Ray Richardson:

I look forward to that. Congratulations on four years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

All right, thanks, Ra.