Hannah and Chellie Pingree

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

after serving four terms in the Maine House of Representatives, Hannah Pingree now works as the business manager of our family's inn, restaurant and Farm and manages North Haven Sustainable Housing. Congresswoman Shelly Pingree represents Maine's 1st district in Congress. Thank you for coming in today.

Hannah Pingree:

Thanks for having us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You're both pretty busy ladies.

Chellie Pingree:

That's true.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Not just because of the Congress, but also because of all the work that you're doing on North Haven.

Hannah Pingree:

Yes. You live in a small town and I also have two kids, so you get sucked into a lot of things. And my mom has started a couple businesses, but she's busy in Congress, so that's for Hannah. We know how to keep busy.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And then of course, you have your sister who is also doing a lot of very interesting things on the island.

Hannah Pingree:

Yes. She runs a restaurant, she is a landlord, she makes films. So somehow we all have an inability to focus. We like to do a lot of things.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's a good thing. And then we don't want to leave out the fact that you also have a son, Shelley.

Chellie Pingree:

Yeah, that's right. Who's a furniture builder and he lives in Brooklyn, New York, and has a child, but we always think someday he'll move back to Maine because who doesn't want to build furniture in Maine if you can?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It seems like that would make sense.

Chellie Pingree:

Totally makes sense.

Hannah Pingree:

Yeah, we're working on it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, Turner Farm, tell me, why did you originally have the interest in this place, which is beautiful? I've been there. I really enjoyed my visit it seems quite idyllic, a nice, small main island, but it also seems like it could require a lot of effort.

Chellie Pingree:

True. Well, I mean, I've been farming since the 1970s, and I've farmed in two or three locations on North Haven. I originally came to Maine, kind of like when all the Back to the Landers moved to Maine in the 1970s. And then I studied at College of the Atlantic with Elliot Coleman, who's one of the masters of organic farming.

Hannah Pingree:

So she majored in composting.

Chellie Pingree:

Yeah, that's right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I was in charge of composting, which I love. It's actually one of my favorite topics. I think I told you this when I was at the farm, so.

Chellie Pingree:

Well, I learned to compost at College of the Atlantic, and it was my work study job, so. And then I ended up on North Haven. And so I just felt very fortunate back in. It was around 2008 with my previous husband who had come to the island. And this farm just happened to come onto the market. It's one of the historic farms in the community, probably one of the oldest farms since the original family family came in 1764, and the fact that it was being sold and we were there at that moment in time. So it's the biggest farm I've ever had the chance to operate and the most serious operation. And we've ended up expanding it quite a bit and clearing a lot of land that had grown up. It had been abandoned from farming for many years. And today we have eight greenhouses, so we're able to operate it year round. And we have pigs and chickens and cows and, you know, run barn dinners out of our barn and do it in collaboration with our restaurant and inn and also something I didn't intend to do. But we now own all these businesses, and it's been, you know, really wonderful to be able to operate such a historic farm, but also to have it done in collaboration with a restaurant so you can, you know, have this experience of eating food that was picked that morning.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Is this something that people are surprised to learn about each of you when you first. Well, I mean, you've been. Both of you have been in government for quite a while at this point. But when they first meet you, are they surprised to learn that you both have this farming background?

Hannah Pingree:

It's a better question for her. I mean, I grew up on a farm somewhat when I was a little kid, and then she actually started a knitting business. And so I actually grew up sort of in her small business part of her life, but she is the farmer and she's the farmer in Congress. And I think it's added a lot of credibility. I mean, she is one of the most involved members of Congress working on food policy and farm policy. So maybe they're surprised, but I think it's, I think it's actually been really appreciated by the people she's worked with that she does it. And she does it even in her spare time when she's not in Congress. She works on, you know, how we can make this farm work. So I personally, I am not a farmer and we have amazing couple that runs our farm and they know so much more than I do. And we all work on the business side of things, how we're gonna make it break even. So I've been deeply involved in that and how it connects to our restaurant. But so I would say I don't profess to be a farmer, but she is. Yeah.

Chellie Pingree:

And it's great for me. I mean, nobody's more fortunate when your kids, you know, work in the same business that you do. And having Hannah have been involved in politics and now being able to do this, it's great. I couldn't continue to operate this farm if I didn't have Hannah as the business manager and, and running everything and also the restaurant too. But it's true when I meet people in Congress, you know, you don't. People think that most politicians and members of Congress are lawyers. They just kind of have this idea that you went to law school and you became a politician. And so when somebody says, well, you know, what did you do in your background? And I say, well, the only thing I'm really qualified to do is to be an organic farmer. It's the only thing I ever studied and it's the one thing I'm technically able to do. People are surprised, but I've served on the Agriculture Committee, I'm on the Agriculture Appropriations Committee. I've made it my number one issue. And so I think my colleagues associate that with me, but sometimes when I talk to them about it, you know, in some ways people are as surprised that we live on an island and that we have to take a ferry to get home and that it's a farm on an island. And you know, people have, people in Maine have a certain sense of our, of our island tradition and our coastal history, but anywhere else, and you say to someone, well, we ride a ferry or there's a huge community on. You know, there are 14 year round islands in Maine and each of them have communities and ours has A K through 12 school and you know, it's a vibrant operating community. I think people are very surprised.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Hannah, when I was visiting this summer, you and I had a conversation about the fact that the summer residents really produce quite the market for fresh, well produce, fruits, vegetables and your farm dinners, which are very popular. And then you have a lot of visitors to the inn, but you're a year round farm and you don't have quite the same demand as the months move into the autumn and winter. How do you work with that?

Hannah Pingree:

Yeah, I mean that is the most complicated challenge. And it's, I mean it's not different than most of Maine is somewhat seasonal. I mean a lot of the tourism industry, a lot of farms have significant demand in the summertime and then you got to figure out how to be creative. So we have a lot of demand in July and August and we could sell every piece of lettuce, you know, goat, whatever we have, we could sell it in, in July and August. So we have been creative. We have a year round CSA where we offer winter greens that just started a couple weeks ago and we actually deliver them to people on North Haven and Vinylhaven. And we have built a pretty significant base of clients up on the mainland. We sell to a bunch of food co ops restaurants and because we grow year round that is somewhat unique, especially in January. The good turn in Rockland is psyched for our lettuce and our spinach and our kale. So. But it takes hard work. I mean it's a pain in the butt to get things on and off the island. So we try to coordinate it with things going on with my sister's business and Nebo when we're open. So we try as much as it takes more effort, but you have to be more creative to make it work. And we're working on it.

Chellie Pingree:

And we also, I mean part of our business model is that we have eight greenhouses which many farms in Maine are now using hoop houses to extend the season. So five of them are not heated, but three of them are heated by wood that we cut on our property. There's a lot of waste wood on North Haven because there's just a lot of fallen trees. So finding wood isn't a problem. But keeping a fire going, you know, and maintaining it and the cost of, you know, the infrastructure, you know, was a part of it. But more and more farms are doing that in Maine because again, it's a way to extend your season and frankly, if you ever have the chance to eat spinach that's grown in the Winter in a hoop house that's, you know, maybe gotten a little bit of frost on it. It has a whole different flavor. There's something about the quality, cool weather that really changes the taste. So the quality of the stuff we grow in the winter, some of it is as good or better than what we grow in the summer.

Hannah Pingree:

People in Maine need green things in January and February. They do appreciate it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, we were just over in Rome visiting my daughter, who's studying abroad, and we noticed that there weren't a lot of vegetables being served because even though it's warmer there, their local produce is shutting down this time of year. And. And the availability of greens is something that you don't notice that you have until it's not there.

Hannah Pingree:

Yeah, and we're so. I mean, US supermarkets, there are boxes of greens year round. They're a little sadder even at Hannaford in the wintertime. But I think people do appreciate a locally grown organic product. I mean, there's. I think there are more and more people appreciate that. And on Northaven, because we realized it was easier, we actually deliver people CSA to their houses. So it's like, about as easy as it can get. And we have a very diverse group of people who are into it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This ability to be a business person has been really important to both of you. And something that I, from what I'm guessing, has taken time. It's not something that, even if you had an mba, which I don't think either one of you does, it's something that really comes with practice and really being the owner of your own business. So tell me what that was like for you initially as the person who studied composting, gardening and farming, to start developing your business skills.

Chellie Pingree:

Right. Well, I mean, I came about it because I wanted to be a farmer, but I was lucky. At College of the Atlanta Dyke, they had a couple of business classes way back in the 1970s. Dan Kane, who's no longer with us, taught a class. And I remember that I learned double entry bookkeeping, which doesn't mean anything to anybody anymore because you have Quicken and you have your computer system and everything else. But in my first farm, I had, you know, a pencil and a ledger, and my dad was actually an accountant. I used to come out and visit. I was from Minnesota originally. He would come out and visit, you know, for three weeks in the fall, and he'd go over all my books and find the mistakes. You know, it was a more complicated thing then, and I, you know, but it was what I learned to Do. And I feel like business to me is something I learned along the way. It was, you know, I started with my first, you know, farm and One Apprentice and selling in the summer. That was way back, you know, in the 1970s when Hannah was first born. And then over the years I developed a yarn business and we had a mail order company and you know, in the 70s and 80s, we sold to 1200 accounts around the country and we had mail order catalogs back before there were computers. And so everything I learned was, you know, a little bit along the way. And it's, you know, it's, it's been great to have Hannah. Who you write, doesn't have an mba, but, you know, served in the legislature, was on the appropriations committee, speaker of the House. You have to deal with budgets and, you know, is way better at computer spreadsheets and you know, all the things that we have to do now and you know, we've just learned it along the way. But there's a lot to it. All the rules and regulations. When you're dealing with food or restaurants, you've got all the, you know, food safety issues. When you have employees, which we have, you know, more than 50 at the height of the summer, you've got payrolls and health care insurance and, you know, everything else. So I feel like we're constantly learning and figuring out ways to do it and then the business model, I mean, everybody who farms knows that it's not easy to make living on a farm. It's not easy to make your farm work. Restaurants are even trickier sometimes in seasonal businesses, as many people have in Maine. And our season is very short. You know, you got to pay for that infrastructure year round. And so we're constantly, you know, trying to look for the right way to go about doing it.

Hannah Pingree:

Yeah, I mean, I would agree with all of that. I am, I am my whole. Growing up, my mom has been a business person and in politics and even before she ran for state legislature, she was a school board member. I'm now on the school board. I was in the legislature. So it's sort of this, I think that we both come at business from a. Like, at least I do from a perspective of it's actually something good for our community too. I mean, people need jobs, the community needs diversification. Her knitting business was actually a lot about employing women on the island year round. And at that point when she started it in the 80s and 90s, there were not a lot of year round jobs for women. And I think our restaurant and our farm have Actually, you know, they employ year round people, they have brought people to the island. So it's actually sort of a joint social business mission. I mean, I will say running a restaurant and a farm are not good ways to make money. Like our goal is always break even and if we make money, fantastic. But it's really to keep something that we believe enhances the community sustainable. And you know, and it's important for the community because one, you have a place to eat or buy food, but it also has provided people with employment and it sort of adds vibrancy to any community. You need those kind of things. So that's how we've, we've probably come at it at times too altruistic and you learn hard lessons that way. But it's, I think especially in small towns in Maine, small businesses are sort of how we keep things going. It's how people can be able to stay there. So that's really what's driven me to continue to put the amount of work that restaurants and freight and employees and some of the hassles, they don't seem worth it. But then in the big picture they are.

Chellie Pingree:

And it's how a lot of people in Maine, I think get into business. You know, there's a, get an MBA and I want to be a business person. Then you find sort of the ideal business to do. But more often it's somebody who, you know, who makes something great, who developed a product, you know, and I meet people all the time, particularly women, you know, they've developed a food product or you know, any kind of idea and somebody says, well, you should sell those. And then before you know it, you've sold it at craft fair and then you sell it to retail stores. And then you've got to figure out, I've got employees now, I have a facility. And you hear that story, and I'm sure you've heard it and written about it many, many times and I actually saw a statistic the other day. I often talk to groups of women owned businesses and women owned businesses are the fastest growing segment of the entrepreneurial economy. And Maine happens to be a leader. It's number one or two in the growth of women owned businesses and women started businesses. Women are also the most likely to start their business by using their credit cards because they can't get a loan at the bank. Which is something that should change. But it's still kind of a sad statistic. But the truth is, you know, a lot of times in a state like Maine where there, you know, there aren't multiple big employers in every small town where it's a very rural economy, you know, people get an idea, they think, oh, my kids are growing up or I want to supplement this and stay at home, you know, what can I do? And so you become a business person in a sense, sort of the back way and you know, you learn along the way. But many times you understand the notions of business better because you're always trying to figure out like, you know, how do I add value to this product or income from my family or you know, all the things that people want to do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think one of the things that you just mentioned about how do I balance, I guess having children or just a family, even if you don't have children, how do I balance that with also making a living? I think that is very important in many of the social media, specifically women, although increasingly men are trying to find a way that they can do both, that they can do something that's very fulfilling, that's not related to their families, but also be available for their families. And the importance of family I think is, has always been utmost, but I think it's even coming around again. Is this something that you are seeing with the people that you work with?

Hannah Pingree:

I mean, I actually think back to even the businesses that my mom started. I mean the farm, we were little kids just wandering around while she was farming. And then she started this yarn business. I used to get off the school bus at her like yarn company and hang out and help her employees. And I'm sure we were paying the butt but like it was so part of our lives. And I think that obviously the closer you work to home, the more possible that is. And I think, I mean for me my job in politics was a lot of travel and it was being in Augusta and being away. I have young kids, you know, two kids under four, five and six. And so I think it's a good time to be really in my community. And having a small business in a small town allows you to still go to the school events and go to your school board meetings and be involved in your kids lives. And I mean it's a juggle. I mean I'm sure anyone same as the city. I mean in rural areas it's like you got to find a babysitter. There's sometimes a child care program and aftercare. So it's a lot more work. And my husband and I are like, oh my God, she's coming off the school bus at 3, like who's gonna stop working to go? You know. But I think it's. It. I mean, our kids, they. Maybe they don't even know how much. How great it is, how much they see us. And if I'm on the mainland for a day or two, it's like, when are you coming back? But I know. I think especially for young kids, I've found that that has been fulfilling. I mean, it's not always easy. I mean, Amanda Hallowell, who is our head chef at Nebo and really helps run Nebo, you know, she had a newborn one of the, you know, the second summer we were open, and she's now 10 years old. And every summer, it's always a juggle of trying to run a restaurant and having a kid. But I think we live in a small town where at this point, her daughter can sort of check in. All right, Mom, I'm gonna go run around town. And, I mean, that's sort of what small towns in Maine are good for. And it's obviously much easier to do that on an offshore island than it would be in Portland.

Chellie Pingree:

I do think people see that as a value, though, about. I mean, when you talk to people who say, you know, I'm moving to Maine, or I just moved to Maine, or I grew up in Maine and I want to bring my family back, or I've decided I want to figure out a way to stay again, there are places where, you know, the job is right there, you know what you're going to do. But a lot of communities, if you decide you want to stay in the town you grew up or move to a rural community, you're thinking like, okay, what is it I'm going to do? Do one of you have a job that's portable? You can still work for a company you used to work for. Can you do something online, or is there something you always wanted to do that you could turn into a business or take over a family business? And I think you just see, I feel like Maine people are in many ways more entrepreneurial because we don't have the guaranteed job that you can go into. And especially, as we've seen some of the agencies, economic changes, mills closing, and things that, you know, have really changed people's lives. You know, we just have a lot of people think about, okay, what could I do to make ends meet? And in a. In the community, like where we live or I think a lot of places, you find people who have multiple jobs. You know, you just don't go to one employer. But, you know, our community, we have a lot of fishermen. Most fishermen work in the summer, but then in the winter, maybe they paint houses or they work on a plumbing crew or they, you know, fix boats or there's just a lot of things people do, you know, substitute school, teaching, things like that. It's a big part of, I think, the Maine economy.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One of the things that I noticed about your island is that everybody seems to know everybody and they know that you're not from there, but they're nice. They wave if you're walking down the street.

Chellie Pingree:

They usually are, yes.

Hannah Pingree:

Sometimes in the end of August, we're all.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, well, that makes sense. I think at the end of the tourist season, a lot of people in Maine feel that way. So it's not just your island. But. And I think that it also, from what I understand, talking to other people from Main island, specifically our small towns, is that there's. There's a sense of keeping it real and that you have to coexist with people that may not necessarily share your philosophy or beliefs, but you all, you need to have. You need to have somebody who's going to take care of your kids, somebody who's going to educate your kids, somebody who's going to plow the driveway, somebody's going to, you know, do different things within the community. So trying to at least understand where they're coming from and not alienating them, is that something that we could translate into a bigger way of maybe helping the current political environment? I'm trying to say this in a way.

Hannah Pingree:

No, no, I mean, it's totally. I mean, she's talked about it and given speeches about it and written about it. I mean, I think my entire childhood on the island of the islands, I mean, it's changed and evolved a little bit, but it's still, you know, there are 350 to 400 people who live on the island. I know all of them, you know, and not everybody loves each other, but you waved everybody. You would talk to everybody. And I have good friends that I went to high school with who, you know, support Donald Trump. And I will. Some of them I'll argue with, some of them will joke about it, but, like, at least I can see where they're coming from and we can have a civil conversation. But, you know, more importantly, I think it's a small community. We all rely on each other for all kinds of things, you know, in bad situations, for, you know, to help plumb your house or, you know, fix your furnace when it's broken. And I think that level of small community we all are in this together is certainly I mean, that's one challenge we all see going on in our country. Like that this. We do rely on each other, and that. That sense fading is pretty damaging and scary for kind of the whole concept of. Of our country and our. And our government and our, you know, our system of democracy is very reliant on people talking to each other and relying on each other. So I think. I mean, for me, I feel like I. There are pros and cons to living in a very small town and on an island, but I completely valued. I went to North Haven Community School, grades kindergarten through 12, and all my classes were very diverse, and those people are still my friends. And we don't all have the same point of view or the same career path. But you. I think kids learn a lot having to growing up with people who are. I mean, there's. We lack some diversity, but we have a real diversity of opinions and sort of places were coming from.

Chellie Pingree:

Yeah. And I felt. I mean, obviously I've lived there since before I had kids and my kids grew up there. And, you know, as Hannah said, it was. It was great to have your kids grow up in a school where it wasn't sort of like, you know, everybody's parent did a certain kind of job or, you know, I mean, some kids parents are fishermen and some kids parents are schoolteachers. And there's just. There is this kind of mixture of opinions and political views. And I think in a way, you know, one of the nice things about a small town and, you know, you're right about how does it translate into the sort of national political scene in the time that we're in, you. You kind of lead with your, you know, your working relationship with each other and your life relationship with each other. You know, you see the plumber on the street and you say, you know, like, you know, what kind of new faucet do you think I should get for my bath? I don't know. You know, you just. You're more likely to have practical conversations with people and you have this sort of connection with each other because of the island, you know, oh, the weather gets bad. I don't think the ferry will go. You know, you just have these things you kind of like, talk about or think about or, you know, that you can relate on. And so you don't think about each other as a, you know, a political point of view or, gosh, you know, that person's so different from me. And I think, you know, we, you know, Hannah mentioned it earlier. I mean, we've been in Business, you know, in a family way. And most of our life, and it hasn't always been like, you know, how do we start a business? And, you know, make the most we can off of, you know, everybody. It's like, it's part of being in a community. And the people who work for you, you know, you don't think about, like, how can I squeeze them on their wages? You think about, like, man, if my employees don't have health care, you know, I'm gonna know it. That they don't get the services that they need. Or, you know, the fact that all of our kids basically go to a public school, and being on the school board is a tough job in a small town, because we. We all understand that it's the one school your kids are going to go to, and everybody has strong opinions about it, and everybody went to school themselves, and everybody pays a property tax. So you're very close to the mechanics of all of it. But you also understand if you don't have a good public school, then young people won't want to raise their kids there. And if you live in a town that's finite, like an island, and young people don't want to live there, pretty soon everybody's old and the place doesn't survive. So I think you do get more of a gut sense about how things work in the sense of we're all in it together, which seems much harder to visualize in our political situation today. I mean, I feel really lucky because I got to deal with the, you know, the difficulties of Washington politics today and the incredible frustration and, you know, bad things that are going on and how constituents feel about, you know, the lack of, you know, ability of Congress to get along. But I kind of have this model of coming back to Maine, and so. So I'm constantly reminded that people are good, that communities can function, and that even when you go through a hard time and small towns go through hard times, you have a fight over the school or you have a fight over the speed bumps in the road. I mean, we figure out ways to fight over all kinds of things. Should we build a new ferry or not? But you kind of work it out, and you got to work it out with the people who vote the same way you do or don't vote the same way, do. Or live in a house like yours or don't live in a house like yours. So it's been a really good lesson for me, and I think it makes for me, like, it gives me a whole different perspective about being in Washington. Because I think no people are really good. And we have lots of communities in Maine where people work through hard stuff and get along with each other and they wave every day. You know, in our town, if you don't wave at somebody, like that's a major offense. Like, they'll come up to you and say, why didn't you wave at me? You mad at me about something? Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You know, it's funny, Hannah, I know one of the projects you have been working on is a place for older people to live once they get to the point where they can't take care of themselves. And it seems like that's an important consideration for island communities. We've talked a lot about the importance of schools and having those available on small islands. But now really having a place where older people can be still a part of their community as they age, because sending them to the mainland, it doesn't necessarily contribute to positive health.

Hannah Pingree:

Yeah, yeah, we will be. So we will be the fourth offshore island to develop a small assisted living facility. And the ideal, again is that as people get to a point where they can no longer live in their homes if they require extra care. In the past, people have had to move off the island and they move off the island and they're in Rockland or somewhere else and middle of the winter maybe people visit them every couple weeks and it's incredibly lonely. So you have an older person who spent, you know, a couple years or their entire lives on this one island and then they have to die somewhere else or spend their last two to ten years of their lives. So a group of community members has been talking about this for a long time. They've seen Final Haven and Shebeag and Islesboro do it. And then we had a summer resident donate her beautiful summer home, which she couldn't sell, to the housing organization that I work for. So I've been working in collaboration with this assisted living organization for a couple years to raise the funds to build more bedrooms onto this house to make a six bed facility. And it should open sometime this spring. And it's a lot of work, you know, people, another non profit. And do we really, you know, how much is this gonna cost? But I think most people see, you know, we have a community center, we have a school, we have a grocery store. We sort of have a lot of the elements that a town needs to function. But if you lose, you know, your older population or even the handful of them that are forced to leave, that just is sort of a void that is doesn't seem fair. And I think a lot of us had stories of people who we were close to having to move off and just sort of the heartbreak of that. So I'm hoping it will be very successful. It's a lot of work to raise money for things and build buildings, and building on islands is more complicated. And certainly the group that will run this facility, it will be a big job, but I think it will be a really amazing additional community element to kind of keep our community cohesive and together.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And isn't this also an example of working with a. What's a seemingly smaller population, but that also has ripples into the larger community where it's not just the older person who has to move off the island, but it's the family members around the older person who then need to shift to a completely different way of living, which can put a lot of strain on not only a family, but a community.

Hannah Pingree:

Yeah. And I mean, we've again, we've seen examples of people who their family has had. They tried to take care of them at home for a while, and that's been situation that maybe lasted too long and led to difficult health outcomes. And then they have the family on the mainland and, you know, an older person, you're trying to go visit your friend on the mainland, but you only get there twice a winter, and you're heartbroken.

Chellie Pingree:

They're heartbroken.

Hannah Pingree:

So I think it should lead to, you know, some situations for multiple families that are much improved. And I actually think for the entire community. I mean, we hope this is a facility where other seniors have a place to gather, especially in the wintertime, it's pretty lonely and can get extra meals or school kids can interact in a more clear way with seniors on a regular basis. So there are a lot of elements of sort of improving people's lives other than just the six people who live there.

Chellie Pingree:

There's also the, you know, there's the situation that people get into where, you know, they're older, they don't want to leave the community, but it's just very hard for them to stay in their house. You know, maybe it costs a lot to heat, or it's, you know, drafty, or they can't get around very well. Well, in a house, you know, in practically everywhere in Maine, there's a shortage of affordable housing. There's always a shortage of housing. So sometimes that means, you know, if that senior can move into the other facility, then that's a house that comes back onto the market. You know, they can sell it where there's still some value in it. Or they can turn it over to another family member who then has a place to live live and they're in a comfortable situation that's just right for them. I mean, there's a reason this happens in other places and it just is a really important part of a small community that lots of places are starting to recognize.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it's like the farm. It's another example of, you know, pulling on a string over here and having it impact, you know, the rest of the world around it.

Hannah Pingree:

Yep.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I appreciate all the work that each of you are doing, both in a practical sense and a more theoretical sense as far far as government and. Well, that's also practical, I guess.

Hannah Pingree:

I don't want to hopefully someday.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's right. I've been speaking with Hannah Pingree, who, after serving four terms in the Maine House of Representatives, now works as the business manager of her family's inn, restaurant and farm and manages North Haven sustainable housing, and also with Congresswoman Shelley Pingree, who represents Maine's first District in Congress. Thank you for all your hard work and thank you for coming in today.

Hannah Pingree:

Thanks for having us.