Hannah Cooke

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Bowdoin College student Hannah Cook is the founder of the Bowdoin Athletes of Color Coalition, which brings together student athletes of color to discuss their experiences of playing sports. Thanks for coming in today.

Hannah Cooke:

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So at least for today, this is not a long travel for you because you were born and raised in the city?

Hannah Cooke:

No, it should have probably been shorter if I could find parking.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Oh yes. Yeah. Well, the whole snow thing is kind of throwing us off a little bit.

Hannah Cooke:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. But you've lived in Maine a long time, so you know it's like snow on the city streets, right?

Hannah Cooke:

Oh, absolutely. But I did live mostly outside of the city growing up, so snow in the streets was not as much of a problem because we had driveways. But yeah, snow is definitely familiar, though.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, tell me about that. Tell me about growing up here in men.

Hannah Cooke:

Well, so to be honest, now going to Bowdoin, I've thought way more about my experience growing up in Maine. I grew up kind of like North Deering area, so kind of like suburbia, very predominantly white. And for most of my education, career, childhood, I was one of the few people, one of the only people of color in my class. Until middle school, I think I was the only one. And growing up, I don't think that had at first really made a huge. I wasn't thinking about it really. I think the first time that I'd actually thought about being like, different was when I was in the third grade. We were playing like manhunt or something. And I remember There was a comment made about me being a person of color and like, not wanting me, like, on a specific team. And I was like, pretty shocked because I had never even thought about, like, how like, my race would be significant in any kind of way. Didn't even, like, really think about being different. And I think that the response from a lot of the kids was, I mean, for not knowing much about race was like, what? Like, that sounds crazy, but no one really knew how to articulate anything. And that experience for me was like, the first time I started to think about my race growing up because I did live in such a white neighborhood and my family is biracial. So my mom is also from rural Maine and my dad's from Jamaica. So it's a very interesting cultural mix within my house. But then I didn't realize how different that was comparatively. But I think growing up for me, actually sports became a place for me to kind of move beyond what I think now is like, was a feeling of a little bit being different in a lot of ways. And it was a place where there was no talk that could, like, really. It's hard to explain and I've still tried to articulate it. A lot of my actual academic career has been me, like, soul searching for, like, to understand my childhood and like, how I've like, gotten to the place where I am. But I think that I had a tough time fitting in with my neighborhood and not just because of my race, but I do think just like culturally coming from the family I did was extremely open minded. And not to say that other people were not open minded, but I don't think there was a recognition of, like, what it meant to be like, a person of, like a woman of color too. Like a girl who was black in a white space, which is, you know, gender has such a role in it too, and how that influences how you're perceived. And again, not articulating this at that age growing up, but I think that sports was a place for me to kind of feel like nothing else beyond my feeling of almost otherness at times really mattered and couldn't. There was nothing someone could say that could take away from me beating them. So I became extremely, extremely competitive, and I was always competitive. But I think that sports was a very special space for me growing up to kind of move beyond all those other things and find a kind of like, way to empower myself by working hard and then being successful and then having that. It became a big part of my identity. But that also did change a lot when I Went to school. But, yeah, I think growing up in Maine, though, was a great experience. Like, very safe. And certainly a lot of communities, different communities that I felt very a part of, and a lot of them were connected to sports. I think another thing I think about, I used to. I played basketball and soccer growing up, and soccer is a completely different demographic of people compared to basketball. And I think that I ended up choosing basketball, actually, and I was pretty successful at both of them and very competitive with both. But when I got older, I started to feel a little bit more like basketball was the sport that I loved more. But now when I look back, I feel like basketball was actually a space where I just felt more connected with the people who I was playing with. And through my Independence research project, which was on race and gender in sport, in American sports specifically. And that really focused on culture of sports and how that culture is a reflection of where, like, class attitudes and where people are coming from with their experiences outside of it. They bring in those values, and that creates a kind of culture and expectations on a different team. And I felt, I think, more connected because there were so many people of color playing basketball, especially in Portland, where there actually is that community. Those communities do exist more than outside of Portland. And so that, in my mind, I chose basketball because that's what I wanted to play. But I think so much more of it had to do with the people that I was surrounded by and how I felt just a little bit more like I could connect with people on a different way that I didn't always have growing up, like, a lot younger in my community. But I definitely lived a privileged life, and I'm very grateful for all that I had growing up. But when you're forced to think about, like, who you become and like, how your life experiences did shape you, I think that I certainly was shaped by being one of the few people and a few girls of color, especially in my class. Growing up.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What was your intention when you founded the Bowdoin Athletes of Color Coalition? What were you trying to do?

Hannah Cooke:

So I'm not exactly positive I knew what I was trying to do. It was a kind of variety of things that kind of came together at the right time. One of my best friends was a leader on our student athletic committee, and she had heard about this program that Tufts was doing, which is an athletes of color group as well. And it was at the same time I was doing my research project and really engaging with these issues at a much deeper level. And then I started, because of my research project, thinking about Again, how sports had influenced my own life growing up and what kind of purpose it fit it had served for me. And then how that purpose, it changes the whole demographic of who you are teammates with and who that community is changes when you get to college, especially at an elite institution such as Bowdoin, where there's probably a smaller proportion of even people of color on the athletic teams, which is ironic, considering most people across the nation, a lot of people of color do play sports, even in Maine. But Also, Bowdoin is 90% from out of state. So I was curious as to how that change in demographic changed people's experiences, how it changed the culture of the sport. Because my research prior had said to me that basically all of those different intersecting identities had contributed to creating a particular culture, and that had attracted me to it. But then what happens when that culture changes for other people, too? Like, for myself, I was like, okay, my freshman year, I was the only person of color on my basketball team, which was one of the first times that had ever happened to me, even being someone from Maine. So I thought, well, how does that change how the culture had been created on my college team? And was that significant in any way? And then I thought, well, my change, you know, being from someone who's very familiar with predominantly white places and communities, I thought that if there was any, like, I had thought about it being challenging in different ways for me, then for someone who was going to an even, like, more different significant ways, the demographics team, for example, I had a friend who was from Georgia and played soccer, and he was on a team that was almost all black, and now he's on a team that's almost all white. So how does that change his experience or their experience? Because it's such an intimate space, and you work your whole life, a lot of people do in college, to be good at that one place. And you have a particular kind of community that you're used to supporting you or being around and having those relationships. And, you know, a team, you don't choose your relationships. And a lot of times we get so lucky to meet the people that we do. But it's also. Also, it's not. You don't choose those people who are on your team. They're chosen for you. So it changes the dynamics of the relationships. And I wanted to see if that had any impact on how people adapted to not only a new school, which has an entirely different culture in itself, but then also a team where you spend so much time and a lot of intimate relationships are formed. Like how did that influence how those relationships were formed and how people dealt with challenges? I know there are a lot of affinity groups at Bowdoin, and I had been to some of the meetings and realized that it was the way that sometimes conflict was dealt with, whatever kind of, you know, where that falls on the spectrum of microaggression to macro aggressions. But a lot of times it's easier for other people to just avoid the situation or to just not be friends with people or that, you know, who kind of rub them the wrong way. And that is just not the same with being on a team. And it's like a beautiful opportunity to help people learn and to coexist with people who you're not used to being around. But it also requires a different way to deal with conflict. And sometimes that can be challenging and isolating if you're on a team that is so different than what you're used to being on. And the same thing with coaches, having coaches that come from different places, different people to look up to or who understand or perceive you and how you act just differently. And I never really think that it's like a malicious thing. I think that at Bowdoin, across the board, there's so much willingness and very little, like, malicious intent that ever happens with when adversity arises. But at the same time, that is not an excuse to not learn from things that do make other people feel other and different and isolated at times. So I knew that if I again, was having some kind of experience that was challenging to me, especially coupled with learning, trying to learn so much about, like, my history and like, America's history, a part of America's history, which I feel like is not taught in schools until you seek it out like college. I did not go into college thinking I was going to be in Africana studies and as one of my majors. And as I took a couple, I took like one class because my advisor begged me to, because I said I might be interested in it. And from then I've just been. It's. It's had such an impact on my life because I feel like there's so much more that I know about not only myself, but about other people and how they interpret and perceive other people in other situations in different communities that they're not necessarily from. So with that, just a perfect storm. And I decided that I was going to talk to the athletic director about starting some kind of group to get people to perhaps explore and self reflect on their own experiences. And that's initially how it began. And then it had. I got a lot of great feedback from people who started to join the group. And then I knew it was important because so many people had expressed that this was a space that they didn't know that they needed, as I don't think I did initially. But then was very valuable to have to kind of throw out feelings that you've had or questions about certain experiences that you're not necessarily sure how to articulate in that moment or even long term. And sometimes you look back and just like, okay, I actually think that this has had an impact on me, or I would like to change X, Y and Z. And then to have a group of people who can share those experiences or relate to them is really meaningful. And not feeling like, you know, kind of that whole sense of otherness. And from there, working with the athletic director and creating programs and initiatives to work on making those feelings happen less and to get teams and coaches and individuals just more self aware of how they create culture on their team and how they create those relationships and how to, like, recognize that maybe you are an athlete, you know, on the court, on the field, on the rink, wherever it may be, but you're still, like, your identity as a person of color doesn't change. And same with gender. That has to do with it. It doesn't change when you're playing. And then when you're outside of the sport, you don't always lose the things that you're dealing with when you come onto the court and. Or again, whatever space it might be. And I think my freshman year, that became really significant, something very significant that I had thought about. And, like, there was a lot of police brutality instances that happened with young people. And I had actually. I had gotten pulled over in Brunswick, and I got out of the car because apparently there was this whole fiasco I apparently had missed. I got a speeding ticket. Not really proud about that, but it wasn't that bad. But I had gone away. I went to a boarding school. And so I. We had missed some, like, payment that it was like a five. Like some really small fee for the court fee that we just didn't. I didn't see the mail because I was away. And like, my mom owns her own business, so she was. Didn't see the piece of mail, if it came. We're not really sure. We weren't notified about it afterwards. And so my license had been suspended and had no idea. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I never break rules. I'm like, I'm really so sorry. I had no idea. But then the police officer had asked to take pictures of me because he didn't want me to sue him for beating him, for saying that I had been beaten by him. And so that was like. And I'm like, I'm biracial, so I'm actually, like, relatively light, which is a whole nother identity that you can get into at a different time. But I was very. Just taken aback by, oh, my gosh, like, this person sees me as someone who's capable of accusing him of doing harm to me just because of, like, I was a person of color. And at that time, people of color were all across, you know, cities were having trouble with cops. And I have no natural animosity towards cops. But I think that that experience, and then going back to my teammates, I did not know how to. To talk about that with them because I didn't think that anyone would know where I was coming from. And I think that I had mentioned it to one or two teammates, and kind of the response is, like. Was something like, wow, I can't believe that happened. But that was, like, kind of it. And so that was tough. And I kind of. And that was my freshman year. I didn't even do this till my junior year. But that was an experience that resonated with me as being something like, my teammates are my closest friends, and that's a very intimate space. And that would be. Those would be the people that I'd want to, like, maybe talk to about something like that. And I didn't know how to. And so I thought, you know, like, that was an extreme example. But there's got to be other people who are having different experiences in and outside of their team that impact how they are, how they, like, how present they are, and how they talk about or deal with different challenges on that team as well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One of the things that you mentioned was the idea of not being able to avoid conflict. And you've used the word intimate space when it comes to playing sports. And I think that that's absolutely the case, that you're on a court, say, if you're in basketball and you're in a locker room, I mean, and whether it's your teammate or the opposite member of the opposite team, I mean, you can't avoid facing this person. But this is the way that we have dealt with conflict, I think, fairly consistently for quite a while in this country, is to just pretend that it doesn't exist.

Hannah Cooke:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And maybe marginalize people that we don't agree with. How do conversations about that happen? In your group. I mean, how do you talk about actually having to face this conflict and not run away?

Hannah Cooke:

Yeah. So my opinion is also not going to be representative of everyone else's. But we talk about this a lot. A lot of our meetings are kind of like dialogue. Like in the sense that I tend to be a facilitator because I do facilitations outside of. That's like one of my jobs on campus. But I tend to run them so similarly to that and getting people to be reflective of how they deal with those instances of adversity or awkwardness. And we talk through it and I think that everyone has different ways that they deal with things based off their team and what level in the relationship they are with people who this is happening with. I think power dynamics go into it too, with people like coaches. Being from a family that is very diverse naturally just in itself. I personally am of the opinion that having one on one conversations is really beneficial because I find that very often it is not a malicious intended comment or instance that happens. And I think that bringing people, calling people in instead of calling people out has been a really effective way. And it's hard for some people to do that because it's just. It is hard because once you acknowledge that someone made you uncomfortable, there's no going back. And that for some people is really. It's easier to just not deal with that person or to say, you know, I like this person is just like too politically correct to like for me to be around. But for me, I think that if I. If those relationships are really worth it for me and for those people, then the work will be put in and they will be okay with that. It doesn't always work out perfectly. And I think that that is one thing that I try to encourage people to look beyond in the group. It's like it's not your. Whatever you say and how you feel is not always going to come out clean and smooth and, and really understandable for that person. But by mentioning it and by engaging people in those conversations, especially in an intimate setting that's not even like within like the whole group. It does create a space for conversation to happen and for you to, to be seen and validated. And I think that sometimes there is so much fear that you're gonna say something that makes someone else feel uncomfortable or hurt. But the fact of the matter is, is that there was a reason that you needed to say that in the first place. And that's because you also felt some type of way hurt in some way. And that's what. And so it's like, what's more or less important, Would you rather deal with not, you know, with being hurt and feeling ostracized, or would you rather challenge someone in your life who you trust or love that to do better? And I think by also, like, challenging someone else to do better, it's more a sign that you believe that they can do it. And that's. Whenever I kind of engage with friends that I'm like, okay, like, I just want to, like, kind of address this particular thing, which, again, is very difficult to do. But I always start with the reason I'm having this conversation. Like, reason I'm, like, even saying anything is because I know this wasn't your intent. And I know that, like, as my friend, you wouldn't want me to feel this way. And so, like, this is why I'm saying it. And I believe that you can do better. And it's not supposed to undermine your character or really label you as a racist or sexist person. It's just. I need to tell you, this is how it made me feel. And I know that wasn't your intention. And how people respond to that, again, changes. But I really do believe that if people really do value your relationship, that they're going to listen. And I think listening is the hardest part, and really hearing what someone has to say. But by not having those conversations, I always feel like it's. It just doesn't help anyone because that other person who said X, Y, and Z can continue to do. Say those things or those incidents can keep happening, and then another person does feel isolated or ostracized. And I think that people are much more willing than we might always give credit for to engage with these kinds of hard topics, because people on both sides are scared. And I think acknowledging that fear from both sides is also really valuable. Yeah, I don't really know how to express this. This is how this made me feel. It's not about you. It's just about, this is why this made me feel this way. And it's kind of. I don't want this to, like, change our relationship. I just want us to be able to build a stronger relationship. And if you don't address those things, it's impossible to build strong relationships with individuals anywhere in or outside of a team if you're not willing to be honest about how you feel. So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I was recently on an elevator in a hotel here in the city of Portland, and a person of color got on the elevator with us. And we both live Here in Maine, we're not of color. My significant other and I, he and I are both from Maine. The person of color, we asked him where are you from? And just thinking we're on an elevator in the city of Portland. So he's probably from somewhere else and he probably assumes we're from somewhere else. And I got this distinct impression from the way that he said back to us, well, I'm from Philadelphia, but I live here now, that he felt offended that we thought because he was of color, obviously he can't be from Maine because Maine is so white. And I really wanted a do over of that conversation because I really, I just wanted to say it's not because you're of color. We just wonder where are you from? You know, like. But I had just had a conversation with someone about race who had said it is those small things that are said that can make people feel like others and it's not even intended. Yeah, but it's exactly what you've said that we don't understand that what might come across to somebody as completely innocuous in one circumstance, in a different circumstance can feel really painful.

Hannah Cooke:

Yeah, I think that also it's an open mindedness, an understanding of where people are coming from on both sides. I do a lot of work with kids and who are working on these kinds of issues in Maine especially. And a lot of times I hear people say that they're, you know, they're too tired or it's like a lot to engage with someone and like there's always this kind. Not always, but there's a lot of times I hear like people, people are tired and I try to like encourage people to like look at where other people are coming from and to recognize that you need to understand that it's not maliciously intended and that have that openness and to have someone engage back and be like, okay, yeah, like I'm from Da Da Da. And like while that might feel like some people are going to perceive that in one way, not everyone is. And at the same time I try to encourage everybody to just be a little bit more open minded about where people are coming from and recognizing that it's not that it's not always the intention and it might feel like sometimes it's kind of part of systematic issues. But I do think that both sides could do better. Both sides. As if this is a two side issue. It's not so many different people are

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

involved,

Hannah Cooke:

but people like that didn't have to, you know, it's tough to like, you know Kind of break it down and it's. Sometimes you can't avoid those feelings depending who you are. But at the same time as I live my own life, I try to think about those, those kinds of small situations as like not an initial, you know, like not to assume that that was the intent. But that can be hard for people from different place communities too. And having it happen more or less often, but it's hard with strangers too, you know, because yeah, a do over could be better or could not. But maybe you know, having that person react in that way like now you've, you are now gonna not engage that way the next time you see someone. So not saying that was even at all, but I'm just saying that now like having those interactions with people and like feeling like maybe something else was going on, that's still something that you're not going to forget. And I think that as long as people are like trying to be open and that that willingness is there, that's what's most important to me at Bowdoin and outside of Bowdoin is that people are just like willing to listen and willing to acknowledge that people do feel different sometimes. And like how can they do better next time? And we don't know how that person actually felt. But the fact that you in your heart were like I want to do better next time, like that is already in itself growth and that's an open mindedness that like a lot of people it would benefit to have.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's also understandable that someone would get tired of this after a while. I mean to be constantly feeling as if you are somehow not somehow another, I mean and get tired of having to explain this to people and it's. I would get tired if it were me.

Hannah Cooke:

Yeah. I think that one of the most shocking things about and for people when they hear where I'm from, they do not believe I'm from Maine. I've never ever had anyone say, oh yeah, you're a Mainer. Like, oh, I could see you as a Mainer. Never. It's always, I can't believe you're from Maine. And for me I just have fun with it now I'm like, why? Is it because I'm black? And it's really funny because a lot of times people don't even think that that's what they're thinking. But sometimes it is and it's not. I don't take it offensively because I do understand I come from an extremely white state but no one ever assumes that I am from Maine ever. But then I'm like, well, why? Why do you think that way? And I think that also that's a really great way to engage people in their conversation and kind of have them check themselves, is to ask those questions, like where those questions come from. And so if that's posed to me where, like, I'm surprised that you're from Maine, I didn't wouldn't have thought that it's why are you surprised? And so that's, again, not trying to be, like, accusatory, which I think sometimes can get people to, like, cramp up and not want to have these conversations, but to get people to think about why they do think certain things.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I appreciate you're taking time out of your very busy life. I know that you're in your final year, and I'm sure that what you end up doing after you leave Bowdoin will continue to lead you down interesting paths. I also appreciate the fact that you have founded the Bowdoin Athletes of Color Coalition at Bowdoin College, my alma mater. I think what you're doing is important, so I appreciate it. I've been speaking with Bowdoin College student Hannah Cook. Thanks for coming in.

Hannah Cooke:

Thank you so much for having me.