Hypnosis & Health #249

Maggie Clement:

It was really kind of timing that I stumbled upon hypnosis. A friend of mine had just mentioned in passing that he had just seen a hypnotherapist and it really was like a light bulb went on. It made perfect sense.

Susan Johnston:

I didn't need to go back and dig up my childhood. You know, I know where I am at this point. And that was, I think that's the thing that cancer takes away, you know, that sense of who you are.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you're listening to Love Maine Radio show number 249, hypnosis and health, airing for the first time on Sunday, June 26, 2016. How does our mind impact our health Significantly? It turns out while many afflictions such as disease or genetic disorders are beyond our control, some things are well within

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

our power to change.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Today we speak with Maggie Clement, a former attorney who now helps clients with issues such as insomnia, anxiety and addiction using hypnosis. We also discussed the hypnosis experience with breast cancer survivor Susan Johnston. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As a physician who's been doing work, worked in the mind body field pretty much all of her career, I really enjoy spending time talking to people who have similar interests. This individual is Maggie Clement, who is a lifelong resident of the greater Portland area and thoroughly enjoys all that Maine has to offer. She is a consulting hypnotist, certified in both standard and complementary medical hypnotism.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

She is also a certified practitioner of

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Neuro Linguistic Programming, also called nlp, and is a member in good standing in the National Guild of Hypnotists the oldest and largest hypnotism organization of its kind. She holds a BA from the University of Maine at Orono and a JD from the University of Maine School of Law. Thanks so much for coming in.

Maggie Clement:

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So I have to lead with the thing that most people are probably interested in, and that is you have a law degree and now you do hypnosis. It seems like a stretch.

Maggie Clement:

It's a. They're pretty much polar opposites. Yeah, I just. I practiced law for several years and it just. Well, first of all, I think there are those out there who really need to love what they do and those for whom it doesn't matter quite as much. And I am the former. And so I really. I really enjoyed a lot about practicing law, but it really wasn't where my heart was. And so I decided to stop practicing and then just started searching for something else that I could do. This did not pop into my mind immediately.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, tell me a little bit about that. Tell me a little bit about sort of the journey from. I know you grew up in Falmouth, sort of the journey from being a Falmouthite to being where you are now doing the work that you do.

Maggie Clement:

That's a big nutshell. So, yeah, grew up in Falmouth and went to college. Went my first year at University of Delaware. I went there specifically because I had a very good physical therapy program and decided that I didn't want my course studies to be quite that rigid. And so, so I just did a general all over education, just liberal arts, I guess, and came back to Maine. I graduated from University of Maine at Orono and then took some time off. When I graduated from Orono, it was really, really. The recession was in full swing here and rather than take a production job, nothing against that, but it wasn't where I wanted to go. I decided to drive out west. And so I drove out to Colorado, not really knowing what was there, but figuring it was probably better than what was here. And so I worked there for a couple years and loved it out there. It was beautiful. But growing up on the water, I really, really missed the water, obviously. So I came back and had various positions. I worked for a title company, I worked for a radio station. And I just sort of got to that point where I wanted to do more. And I felt like I kept hitting a level where I couldn't do more with whatever position it was. And so then I thought I needed additional education. And so then I tried to figure out what that might be and I ended up going to law school with the idea that really not specifically intending to be a lawyer. I know that sounds horrible to a lot, but at the time, that kind of education would really sort of elevate you and allow you to do more in whatever organization you became a part of. So I went to law school and practiced law for several years and just found that it just wasn't where I wanted to be. I had always really had an interest in the mind body connection, very interested in nutrition and kind of fascinated by how amazing the human body is. Probably should have gone in that direction a little earlier, but I didn't, wasn't there. So when I stopped practicing law, I sort of just thought, what do I want to do now? And originally I thought, well, let's get into program management or human resources, something like that. And by the time I had finished, stopped practicing law. There are degrees in human resources, there are degrees in project management. And so it really wasn't the best fit. And so I finally decided to do what I was really, really interested in. And I had no idea. I had never even been to a stage show. I didn't know anything about hypnosis. I looked into things like massage therapy and I looked into, well, Reiki is great in a lot of ways. It was a little bit too nebulous for me coming out of practicing law. And so I know from personal experience that oftentimes you can experience discomfort in your body and it's not necessarily organic, it's not necessarily physical. Oftentimes thoughts and experiences can harbor themselves in your body. And so it was really kind of timing that I. That I stumbled upon hypnosis. A friend of mine had just mentioned in passing that he had just seen a hypnotherapist. And it really was like a light bulb went on. It made perfect sense, just perfect sense. So then I got trained and I've been doing that really ever since, which

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

is heading on around about seven years.

Maggie Clement:

Almost seven years.

Susan Johnston:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how have you found people in the community as far as being accepting or coming to you for services?

Maggie Clement:

You know, it's, it's. I'm sure, I'm sure in the beginning there were those in my family who were concerned that I would be doing this full time. But really it's. It's kind of blossomed. I find that this is a really nice community to be in, and word of mouth is great and, And I've found, you know, people, sort of. Most people get it when they come, they want to help themselves. They're. They're stuck or they're, you know, they just, they just need a little push to get where they want to go. And that's really. I kind of help people get unstuck primarily.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, tell me about that. Tell me about. I think most people do have this idea of stage hypnosis where, I don't know, you have somebody come up and make them bark like a dog and everybody in the audience laughs. And that's all great. But I know that practice practitioners refer patients to you and people self refer for things like insomnia and anxiety and addiction. So there is something that's very. The power of suggestion, the power of one's own mind is very strong.

Maggie Clement:

It's incredible. It really is. And that's one of the things that I like about this work so much, is that when people get how powerful they are, I basically consider myself a coach or a facilitator. And when they begin to use those tools, they really, they really sort of empower themselves. And it's interesting, I think, you know, from seeing stage shows or the movies or, you know, Svengalis or whatever it is. I think oftentimes people think it's an overnight thing. And for some people it is. The timing is right and it can be really just one session. For most people it's, it's a practice. You know, you've got nerve pathways in your brain that correspond to whatever behavior is happening. And in order to establish a different one, you've got to practice, you've got to repeat and reinforce. And that's a really important part of it. It's not a sort of a one shot deal. You know, I say that sometimes it has been because timing is right and people are ready

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

when someone first contacts you and you sit down and have a consultation with them. What are the types of things that you explore with them?

Maggie Clement:

Well, you know, I think generally speaking, the first session that I have with anyone, it's a good deal of information gathering for me. We do talk a little bit about hypnosis and what it is and what it isn't. We talk more specifically about their issue and what they'd like to see happen and then we have a session. So it's really interesting. I mean, I've had clients who come in, most of us have four or five or more things that we'd like to change about ourselves. And sometimes people come in with a certain idea of how they'd like to change when the real issue is actually something else. And it takes just kind of digging into that to find out oh, that's the problem. You know, it's not this other thing that is maybe more obvious. So, you know, I ask a little bit about family history. It's not always necessary to do that, but mostly sort of what their life looks like, you know, and how they go about their days and how they perceive whatever it is that's bothering them. Because often, often I, and I mention this to them too. It's sort of like stepping back outside of yourself and taking a few paces to the right or the left and just changing your perspective and seeing what it looks like from a different point of view. Sometimes that's enough, actually.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And the hypnosis process itself, Tell me what that's like.

Maggie Clement:

Well, so when we begin the session, there's so many different techniques in hypnosis. We'll choose, let's just say with progressive relaxation, something like that, I use that. I use some guided imagery. So there is a period in the beginning where I usually have people just focus on their breathing. It's a good thing to get into the habit of doing anyway. And then we just do kind of a relaxation. And that's. That's called the induction stage of the hypnotic process. So, you know, we just do. There are different ways to even do progressive relaxation. There's mental progressive relaxation. There's physical progressive relaxation, but we just sort of go down through the body. And the idea, and the truth really is that when your body relaxes, your mind relaxes a little bit and vice versa. So it just eases them into this very relaxed state. And I tell them their only job really is just to follow my instructions and to use their imagination really to strongly imagine that what I suggest is very real because that's really what hypnosis is. It's a focused state of attention, which is the them following my voice coupled with a greater receptivity to suggestions and imagery.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Is there ever any loss of control? I think that's one thing people fear.

Maggie Clement:

Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. No, there isn't. There really isn't. The client is in control the entire time. And I even tell them too, that they can emerge from that relaxed state anytime they want to, but nobody ever does. So. Yeah, always in control.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The way that I came to first know you is that we're writing an article about you and about hypnosis for May magazine. So I spoke with Dr. Ingrid Martin and she said the most striking thing for her was when she referred a patient over for smoking. Long, long time smoker. And this person came back and said, when I finished the session. It wasn't as if I thought to myself, oh, I can stop smoking. It was, I am not a smoker. Which is such an interesting mind shift, because what we generally think of with addiction is it's something that we have to push away from ourselves. It's something separate from ourselves as opposed to, it does become somewhat of our identity. So if you shift your identity right, then it's just not there anymore.

Maggie Clement:

It's really true. It's amazing. And one thing, it's probably my mantra, and clients maybe get sick of me saying it, but I probably won't ever stop saying it. But your body is always going to follow the thoughts that are held in your mind, always, without fail. And so whether you're thinking positively or negatively, or whether you're thinking you're a smoker or you're a non smoker, whether you're thinking you're overweight or underweight, whether you're thinking you're calm or you are nervous or anxious, your body's going to lead you in that direction. And so much of what we do, the traditional approach, is sort of a corollary to that. And they've done studies on this too. But your mind doesn't really register negatives. It kind of goes to the operative in any sentence that you tell yourself. So if you're saying, I just don't want to smoke anymore, just hear smoke, I don't want to feel this way anymore, you've already conjured the feeling by the time, you know, you're saying that to yourself. So really, really important for people to be focused on what they do want and to be repeating and reinforcing that, because your body will make that happen too. That's probably the biggest, the biggest shift that I think my clients learn.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

There is some real work involved in what you do, some real work within sessions, and oftentimes work outside of sessions as well. Because this re, patterning, it's not like it happens overnight.

Maggie Clement:

That's right. That's right. Exactly. And, you know, I find that really depends upon the issue. You know, oftentimes, oftentimes there can be just one thing I say. And because someone has, for instance, been wanting to stop smoking for a long time, they're going over and over again in their mind. And there may just be one thing that I say that just really triggers it for them. And I have, you know, obviously people with, you know, having just one session, and they're just completely done with it. Some people aren't there. And that's part of you Know, I think I have kind of a permissive approach. I usually suggest that people leave their expectations at the door as to how they're going to change because everybody, you know, any smoker walks in and says, okay, I just want to never pick up another cigarette again. And, you know, okay, that might happen. And often it does. But it may, you know, may take more than that. You know, even if you smoke a pack less in a week, if you're a pack a day smoker, that's moving in the right direction. So, yeah, it does. It's all about repetition and reinforcement. And you're right. There are things. There are things particularly, you know, the good thing about cigarettes, the only good thing about cigarettes is that they're completely unnecessary. So once you're done with them, you just. You just don't need them in your life.

Susan Johnston:

Right.

Maggie Clement:

And other issues. For instance, if people want to lose weight, you kind of have to have a relationship with food. You got to come to a place where you're at peace with that. So it usually takes a little bit longer. But even after one session, I find that people begin thinking about whatever the, you know, whatever their particular issue with food is, they begin thinking about it a little bit differently.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's something that I think about all the time with my patients. And that is that if it's another sort of addiction, perhaps you can take yourself out of a situation where you won't be tempted to engage in that addiction. I mean, it's more complicated than that, obviously, but at least there's that. At least you can start with that.

Maggie Clement:

But food, it's there around you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We have to have some form of it in order to sustain ourselves as beings.

Maggie Clement:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And that's challenging.

Maggie Clement:

Yeah, yeah, it really is. It really is. And everybody's so different. And I usually suggest, you know, with those clients that, you know, find the way of eating that works for you. It doesn't really matter what works for such and such. Maybe such and such is gluten free or maybe, you know, somebody doesn't do dairy. I know all that stuff is, you know, there are certain perspectives on what we should and shouldn't eat, but it really is what works best for that client body, how they feel. And so we focus more on that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What type of work do you do at the cancer community center? I know this is something you've engaged in in quite a while.

Maggie Clement:

Yeah, yeah, I have. Well, I have a class there every Thursday. It's called meditative hypnosis. And it's a group session, usually anywhere from six people on the low end to, you know, 15 to 18 on the high end. And really, that's a relaxation session. That's just a general relaxation session. And we all really need that because the way life is right now, from my perspective, we really have to actively take time to calm ourselves, to allow our bodies and minds to communicate a little bit. And that's what that session is about. And so I use some progressive relaxation. I use some guided imagery there. And for some participants, you know, it's just sort of a chance to kind of just escape, you know, just go somewhere else, somewhere nice, you know, a peaceful place, that kind of thing during the session. For others, I mean, I think we're just learning more and more about. Or maybe it's always been there, but our immune system is just so affected by stress. And to the extent you can reduce and take time for yourself, you really can help boost your own immune system, which, of course, is pretty. Pretty important in that environment.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You also do work with the Maine Medical Center Integrative Medicine Program, which has been around for, I think, somewhere around 10 years now. Tell me about that.

Maggie Clement:

Well, I guess that's an opportunity for me to. To show the residents and fellows in that program what hypnosis is all about so they can know more about it. I think there's just such huge benefit that can be derived from using hypnosis for them, with patients. For me, I call them clients, and I just provide that service for them so that they know what it's like, as opposed to sort of speculating. Most people don't really know much about hypnosis. What they know about it is generally what they've seen in stage shows or that type of thing. So it's just an opportunity for those who choose it to just come have a session with me or ask me about how I approach clients and different issues, that kind of thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And do you find that these. Because these are essentially relatively new and sometimes young doctors who are training in, most of them, family medicine. And do you find that they're open to what you have to offer?

Maggie Clement:

I do. I do. I think for some, it's something that they never would have considered, really. And just having the experience allows them to know. There are some who are more open than others, of course, but it's. Generally speaking, I think more and more is becoming a part of how. I hope. I hope it becomes a part of how a physician will treat. Licensed medical professional, I should say, whether it's, you know, mental health or physical health, I hope it becomes a part of how they sort of approach. Approach their patients.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You believe that there are some people who can do a certain type of work, and whatever that is, it's fine. And for you, you needed to find the type of work that really resonated.

Maggie Clement:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think there are people who are listening who really will really, I don't know, understand exactly what you're saying, because there are many people out there who kind of feel like they show up and they do what they're supposed to do, but it may not fit exactly who they are. How did you get over that hump yourself? There's certainly a mind body thing that. I mean, if you have. You have been trained as an attorney, so you have the ability to go make money and probably pretty good money.

Maggie Clement:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How did you get to that place where you said, I really need to do something that falls exactly within my wheelhouse?

Maggie Clement:

Yeah, well, you know, I just took a look at how I felt on a daily basis, and I practiced law long enough to know whether it was something that I wanted to do more of. And I just found that, you know, I tried different areas of the law. I worked for firms, I worked for myself, and I just. It just wasn't working for me. It just wasn't. And it, you know, that. That gut feeling was. Was getting in the way. And so it. From my perspective, it just needed to happen. And so the good thing is that I think I've never really cared, too. I think it's a good thing. I've never cared too much about what things look like, obviously. And so it wasn't. It felt so right to be doing hypnosis that it didn't really, you know, it didn't really matter what other people thought. I felt like I was on the right track then.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's been interesting to learn more about the work that you do and also kind of see the mind that you have and the choices that you've made. When I brought my daughter Sophie, when we came to talk to you, and she's 15, so she was like, I don't know if I believe in this hypnosis stuff. You know, the way that she had it out there was, I think, a common misconception that, you know, hypnosis is this weirdo, fringe stuff that we. That. And then she met you, and it was very. I think it really kind of shifted the way that she saw the practice of it.

Maggie Clement:

That's great. I'm glad. I'm really glad she came along. Yeah. And, you know, most people do, as I said, have this Certain idea of what it is. But, you know, the hypnotic state is such a natural state of mind. We all go into and out of lots. And so, you know, I often ask people if they've experienced hypnosis before and most people will say no. But if you've ever enjoyed a movie or if you've ever enjoyed a good book, you have experienced hypnosis once again, a focused state of attention coupled with a greater receptivity to suggestion. You know, with the movies, you gotta be willing to, you know, buy into what the artists are wanting you to know, wanting you to believe. And what I love about that is that, is that your body reflects that. You know, when we go to the movies, we feel scared, we feel sad, it makes us cry. It creates physiological change in our body. It's not even happening to us. I just love that that's the power of imagination and of the mind. So, yeah, I'm glad she came along.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Me too. I love introducing skeptical people to things that open their minds somewhere. Especially my children. I find that especially joyful. What does that say? That's a whole other show that I guess we could have. But Maggie, how can people find out about the work that you do?

Maggie Clement:

Well, My website is www.portlandmainhypnosis.com. feel free to sit in on a session at the cancer Community Center. It's generally for those who, you know, most of us know someone in our lives who have gone through that. So. Yeah. And call 207-807-6270.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I do encourage people to learn more about the work that you do and also learn about you in particular because I know that this type of field is very specific to the practitioner very much. I think it's worthwhile. If you're listening and you have been wondering whether this might be helpful to you, it probably will be in some way. It's possibly worth the exploration of it. We've been speaking to Maggie Clement who is a consulting hypnotist certified in both standard and complementary medical hypnotism and a former attorney, multifaceted individual. Thank you so much for coming in today.

Maggie Clement:

It's my pleasure. Thank you.

Susan Johnston:

Experience.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

kind of come together in interesting ways. This next interview that I'm speaking with is Susan Johnston, who has retired from many successful businesses, ranging from decorative pillows and maternity clothes to show horses and custom homes. Susan says, I'm 70 years old, a wife, mother and grandmother, and just trying to live in the moment. And Susan also happens to be the mother in law of a former guest of mine, Dr. Sam, who came in to talk about libraries. So as I said, everything kind of comes around. And Susan's also featured in an upcoming Maine Magazine article on hippo hypnosis, which we are writing about Maggie Clement, and she is a client of Maggie Clement. Thanks for coming in and talking to me today.

Susan Johnston:

You're very welcome.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Susan, you and I share something that perhaps it would be better not to have shared, and that is breast cancer. Your form of breast cancer was more advanced than mine, and for that I'm grateful for myself, but more sad for you. But it seems like you actually, you're on the other side of it now. You're, I think, a couple years out.

Susan Johnston:

I am. It will be two years Memorial Day weekend.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And part of what you and I talked about before you came on the air was the fact that hypnosis helped you through this interesting stage that cancer patients often go through at the end of their treatment.

Susan Johnston:

Yes, I don't really have. I don't think there's a name for it. I think that it's just when you finish treatment, everyone's like, great, you've finished and now you can get on with your life. And it's not so easy. I found. I don't know about you, but I found that I was really frightened because no one was watching me all the time anymore. You know, when you're in treatment, everybody is paying attention to every little thing, the slightest bump or change in your blood work or anything, and then you're out there and it's like, well, what do I do now? And I found that really difficult and I had lost touch with the confident person that I was before all this happened, and that was really hard. Then I found my way to Maggie, and that helped.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, let's talk about a little bit also, the fact that you. When you found out you had breast cancer, you were feeling great.

Susan Johnston:

I was. I don't know about you, but that's one of the strange things. And I've talked to lots of people that that's happened. I was playing tennis four or five days a week. I just felt great, loving my life and was having breakfast and reached around to scratch a place on the side, and I felt it, and I instantly knew what it was, but I felt that I. Suddenly this glass sphere sprang up around me and I was inside it, and the rest of the world was on the other side of it. And I couldn't even tell my husband. He was sitting across the table from me, reading the paper. And that was a Saturday morning, and it was not until Monday that I was able to tell him what I thought was happening. And I felt so isolated. And I think that. I don't know if other people go through that, but to be on the inside of that, and then everything is like a tornado after that. You know, you go to see the doctor, and the next thing you know, it's a whirlwind, and it's surgery and chemo and radiation and. And you're the focus of everything. You're the eye of the hurricane, so to speak. And then you kind of come out on the other side and it's like a void. It's like everything just stops. So, you know, and the thing that's surprising to me and I. But I think this is happening more now as people. The medical profession, I think, is becoming aware of this, that women need help. Maybe not just women. All cancer patients, I think, need help, or anyone who goes through a serious illness needs help on the other end of that. And there's not much provision for that, I think, in the medical world right now, which leaves patients sort of on their own. What do you do? And the, you know, oh, people are like, oh, isn't this great? You can just get on with your life. Well, what's my life?

Maggie Clement:

Right?

Susan Johnston:

At that point, what's your life? Where do you go? You can't just go back to where you were.

Maggie Clement:

No.

Susan Johnston:

Right. So what do you do? How do you move on, I guess, is the question. It's interesting. I went to a luncheon yesterday for my tennis group, and I looked around the table. There are about 20 of us. I Guess I could count the women with the survivors there on either side of me was one. And I thought. And nobody was really talking about it, but I thought, gee, everybody I guess is getting on in their own ways, but maybe there should be some kind of support group. Doesn't fit the bill, I think. You know, I didn't want to go back to the support group I was in. It was too painful, sort of. So how do you move on? That's the question, my question.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you had something very specific that was happening to you physically as a result of going through the cancer. And it wasn't cancer pain, it was that you couldn't sleep.

Susan Johnston:

I couldn't sleep. I had nightmares. I had terrible nightmares. And I had nightmares when I was young and then never again. And I really thought of myself as a pretty happy person. And then I began to have these nightmares, serious nightmares, yelling in my sleep, waking my husband up. And I asked him, he said, I can't hear what you're saying. I can hear it, but I can't understand it. But it sounds like you're arguing, what are you doing? And then I realized that sort of gave me a handle to think about it. And then I was arguing with death. And it was a very visual. It was the typical tall figure in a dark robe with a hood standing by the door or by the window. And we were debating and I was saying, no, no, you can't have me. And worst case, also my daughter came down with breast cancer. And I said, you can't have her and you can't, you know. And so a lot of it were. The strange thing was biblical language, which is really strange. I don't get into this, but I not practicing anything at the moment in terms of religion. And one time my husband woke up and I woke up and I said to him, did I just say thou hast taken my brother? And he said, yes. And I thought because my brother had died some years ago and I thought, okay, this is really getting way out there. And so I stopped sleeping. I really didn't. I would wake up and I couldn't go back to sleep. I was afraid and very anxious. And then I saw Maggie. That's what drove me to see Maggie really was that I was exhausted and missing my sense of self and calmness. So she really helped with that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You found out about Maggie through your daughter?

Susan Johnston:

I did.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And through your son in law and

Susan Johnston:

my husband and your husband also. They had all seen her, the whole family had all seen her for all different things. My husband had afib Everybody had different issues. And I said, well, she's done wonders for everybody. Maybe, I don't know, but, you know, I'd meditated in the past and I'm open to all kinds of alternative stuff. And I thought, well, nothing else is happening. I'm not taking sleeping pills and I'm not, you know, I'm not going to be a zombie. So I went to see Maggie and in two sessions, she gave me the tools that I needed to, to deal with it. She's wonderful. She's a very good listener, which I think is a big part of what she does. I've never been hypnotized by anyone else, so I don't know. But I, I think you have to listen to what the person is saying because in hypnosis, I, I don't think, think it's not like what we think it's going to be where they can make you do something that would go against who you are. They just. She was able to listen to me and use my strengths, really, which I had lost touch with, to find them again. That's what she did. She helped me find them again. She gave me some specific things. I felt very relaxed afterwards. Her office is really cozy and you feel safe and protected, which is so trust. You can trust her. And, and I began. I went home after the first session and I slept for 10 hours. And I thought, okay, this is it. This is like. And then I started and then I told my oncologist about it and they took her name and, you know, so I think she could help a lot of people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you also continue to use techniques that she gave you when you have, you know, difficulty sleeping?

Susan Johnston:

I do sometimes, you know, for various reasons why you can't sleep are not all bad. Sometimes I'm excited. I've played a good match or something on it, but, you know, Here it is 11 o' clock and I'm gonna have to pick the kids up from school tomorrow. And I know I need some sleep, so I use the techniques to go to sleep that she, she did with me. And I think that they're great too. You know, sometimes you just need to go to sleep. So. Yeah, but I don't really have the problems anymore. I don't have the nightmares. If I do have a nightmare, one of the things that she said to me was, it's only 10 minutes. You can have a bad dream, it's 10 minutes long, and then it's done. And I thought, yeah, right, you can do anything for 10 minutes, you know. So having been through Everything I've been through 10 minutes is nothing. So it's really. It was really helpful in that way. But I don't have them anymore, you know, so that's good. And if I do, I don't. I don't really talk in my sleep anymore. I mean, that whole period is over. So I think I credit Maggie with that. I don't know what would have happened otherwise. I mean, I was really unhappy. And especially after you have cancer and everything you've been through, you think, well, now I should be happy that I'm better. That's the other part. You feel like, why aren't I happy? You know that I've survived this, right? I mean, we. We deserve to be happy. Right? So how do you find that peace again? And it's hard. I don't know how you feel about it, but, you know, do you worry when you have a checkup? You know, do you get anxious?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Of course.

Susan Johnston:

Yeah. So how you deal with the ongoing anxieties is another thing. So I use the same techniques that she gave me to deal with that too. It all goes together.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think you've said a lot of things that really resonate with me and with patients also that I've had that have come in to talk to me after cancer. And it is the great thing about cancer these days is that in many cases it's curable or at least treatable. And we have lives after cancer. And it used to be that that wasn't the case, that we didn't necessarily have lives after cancer. You know, you were lucky if you made it through.

Susan Johnston:

Right?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But you, you do come out of it a changed person. You do.

Susan Johnston:

You do. And I think that has to be acknowledged. And I. I don't think that is so much. Well, that's not fair. What Usually that people will think and say and you're supposed to feel is okay. Now, I've been through this near death experience. I'm going to not waste any time. I'm going to find something meaningful. Well, you know, that just puts a lot of pressure on you, too. Sometimes I walk around thinking, I can't play solitaire. I can't read the paper. I can't just look at the ocean, which I love to do, which I used to do before, why can't I do it now? It's like, do you find that you put this pressure, this inner pressure on yourself to have more meaning in your life? Well, your life already has meaning. If it has meaning to you, it has meaning. And you don't need to Prove anything to anyone in any way. So when you find. People will come up and they'll put the hand on the elbow. I don't know if you've experienced that. And you get the how are you? Look, you know, which I know they're chewing it because they care, but I feel like, do you really want to know or. I'm fine. There's the other thing. We don't want to alarm people anymore, you know, we don't want to worry anyone. And so then you say, oh, I'm just fine, even if you're not. And that's hard, too. So I know we talked, you know, a little bit about that, but it's the pressures afterwards of how you're not the same person. So then where are you? But that's interesting. You can then be a different person. I guess you can reinvent yourself in any way you like.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I think that's highly possible. I think that we're, all of us all the time are reinventing ourselves, whether we realize it or not. And it really struck me when I was talking to you that one of the things you liked about hypnotism is that you were actually at a pretty good place. You didn't really feel you'd been. You didn't need to go through analysis. You didn't need therapy.

Susan Johnston:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You know, it really was. There was some. Something that needed shifting in some imperceptible way and that. To help you sleep.

Susan Johnston:

Yes, yes, yes. I didn't need to go back and dig up my childhood. You know, I know where I am at this point. And that was. I think that's the thing that cancer takes away, you know, that sense of who you are, that security. I had worked through a ton of things, as we all do and strive to do, encounter groups and psychoanalysis and meditation, and I'm an old hippie. I mean, you know, I won't go into too much detail there, but lots of that. And so looking for all kinds of things. I mean, I guess I'm a seeker, and so I'm open to things, but I thought that I was there. So cancer was like, oh, really? You're really not. I guess, afterwards. But maybe that's a good thing, you know, so it's interesting. I had lupus for 40 years, so. Which didn't get diagnosed until I was in my 30s, but I really got sick when I was 19. And now one of the. You know, there's a couple advantages to getting old. You know, your eyes get better and you can get in the movies Cheap.

Maggie Clement:

And.

Susan Johnston:

And you go into remission with lupus, you know, that's a really good thing. But I had thought when I got cancer, I thought, oh, I know how to do this. I know how to. To be a patient, and I know how to rely on my own immune system to fight this and all those things, because my prognosis with lupus wasn't good. And yet I completely. I did great. So I thought, I can do this. But, you know, it wasn't the same, and it was really hard to figure out how to do it afterwards. And Maggie and the hypnosis, I find, is so helpful with everything because I've seen her for a couple of other things. I even went to see her about how to make my tennis game better, because we take all of our things onto the court with us, you know, and she gave me a couple of really good tips which were helpful, and I'm using those as well. Look out my next match. But what do you think about what can be done for patients, you know, after cancer? What's a better way to treat people? You're a survivor, too. So how did you want to be treated after. I know this is turning it on, the interview on you, but really sort of radio show.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now, that's an interesting question, because I think that it so depends upon the patient, the person. I've noticed that some people really want to put it behind them, and other people really want. Want to acknowledge it. And it depends on where they are. And so it really. I think, personally, I don't know that there was any amount of preparation somebody could have done with me to help me understand that things will have shifted by the end of the treatment. But it would have been nice to know that things would come up that I hadn't even thought about. But I don't know how you prepare somebody for that.

Susan Johnston:

Right. Because I think those things are different for each person, really. I know I felt that I should volunteer. I should go to the cancer community center, which is a wonderful place because it really helped me to be in support groups, and I should do that. And I brought it up at one of the meetings that I wasn't doing, and that I felt guilty about it. And I loved the facilitator. She said, no, nobody says you have to do any of that. You know, some people, it helps them to really be in the cancer world. And some people, it's not a helpful thing. She says, and for you, I think you need to just go and do other things and then see how you feel about it. And now that it's a little more time between it and me, I am thinking, well, I do want to do some volunteer work, but not necessarily in the cancer world. I think. I don't know that it would be helpful, but maybe it would. I don't know how to. Maybe I'd have to try and see. I don't know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I think that that's kind of the key, is that it's whatever works best for you as the individual.

Susan Johnston:

Exactly.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that's the interesting challenge. Like, how do we offer more to you survivors in general, but then people who. Specific individuals. What works best for each individual person? I mean, it's an. I think. You know. And I know that I. I know your daughter was in her early 40s when she was diagnosed, and from what I understand, you were going through genetic counseling.

Susan Johnston:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I guess she was kind of brought in and they said, you really need to get this additional screening.

Susan Johnston:

Exactly.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And she had no symptoms. She had no. Nothing.

Susan Johnston:

No.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And she ended up. It was fortunate that she had. Because the screening. Because she did end up having cancer in her early 40s.

Susan Johnston:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And for me, as a parent, if I had a child going through cancer, I don't know how this was for you, but I think that would have been, I don't know, like the next level up.

Susan Johnston:

It is. And I think those were. Some of my arguments were, you can have me, but you can't have her. And, you know, I feel like I've lived my life. She has young children. You know, there's justice in this world, you know, so. So I made deals. I think in my dreams, I was. I was making deals. And, you know, it's ridiculous, of course, because we have no control. That's part of the thing that's so difficult, is that we have no control. So I think for some people don't think of life that way. I do. I really thought of myself as making choices and being in the moment and knowing what was going on. And then it's like, you're just. You don't. Right. Suddenly this thing has taken over. You have no idea why. How could this be? I've led a healthy lifestyle. I eat organic food. I do all the things I'm supposed to do. I exercise and everything. How could it be me? I don't smoke. You know, how could I get this? And I think that's really hard. We're hard on ourselves. We maybe need to be kinder to ourselves when things like that happen. Not feel like your body's let you down, which I Think is really how I felt. And Maggie helped me a lot with that. I thought. I've worked all these years on my immune system. That's with lupus. That's what you do, you know. And I did lots of visualization, and I always knew what I could tell my rheumatologist what my antibody test would be. I knew what was happening all the time. How could I not know this? And that lack of trust in your own body, that's a hard thing to deal with for me, if you're the kind of person that I am. I think that was the hardest thing that I didn't feel that I trusted myself anymore and I had lost my. Who I was. My identity was all tied up in that. Maybe I just needed to lose that slightly superior attitude that I might have had about it. So maybe that's a good thing. I don't know. I mean, in hindsight, I, you know, I was pretty cocky. But having survived and done what I'd done, and I don't feel that way now, let me tell you, I, you know, I've none of that because it can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere, and there's sort of no protection against that. But that's part of life. I mean, you know the old saying, you get hit by a bus, right? So, you know, so you might as well go on and be in the. I mean, to me, the hardest and most important thing was to get back to being in the moment, not worrying what's going to happen a year from now, because who knows? Anyway. And so I feel like I've arrived back at that. And that's. That's a. That's. That was an achievement. And the. Maggie really helped with that. I don't know. I don't think I could have done it without her. I was in a real spiral. And she just got me to stop, breathe and recognize what I really already knew about myself. And then it was there again. So it was good.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And that's an important thing because as a physician, what I have to offer people when it comes to things like arguing with death in one's dreams, you know, that's just not something we get a lot of in medical school.

Susan Johnston:

So somebody comes in and tells you that, how do you respond? Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So I think that I'll tell you

Susan Johnston:

how my, My team responded. They just hugged me, which made me feel really good. And they, they were great about it. And when I would have a specific worry, like, oh, I, you know, I have this cough, I must have lung cancer, they'd say, well, you could get an X ray and then we'll know, you know, and then I'd go get the X ray. And before I would be pulling out of the parking lot from the X ray, my cell phone would ring and they'd say, nope, you're fine. So they supported me through the kind of crazy period where you really feel like every little thing is wrong, you know, something, it's back. But. And that was great. And they try to think of ways all the time to make it better, to make it easier. So I had a lot of support there. So they were great too. But it's amazing. One day on the tennis court, I was kind of emotional because I had lost a good friend to breast cancer and I just stopped playing and I said, I have to tell you that I'm emotional today. And I didn't even know these were. And it was a match. And it turned out that all four of us were survivors. So we just had a big group hug and then we just went back to play. And I thought, this is strange. This is really strange. But, you know, there we were. So it was good. Interesting experiences like that happen routinely. You meet people. This is sort of that knowing look or something. Do you find that too?

Maggie Clement:

Oh, absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

There are very few things in my life I consider to be accidental. So. And I say this as a doctor, I meet the interesting patient at just the right time. You know, I have the interesting guest at just the right time. I absolutely think that's true.

Susan Johnston:

Yeah. And if you're open to that, you just start down a different path. I mean, that's what happens, you know, those chance encounters, I think sometimes make a big difference.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I think that's true. Sometimes we think that we know what we need, but sometimes we need something that we don't even know about and sometimes it's provided for us.

Maggie Clement:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Not to get too woo woo, but you know.

Susan Johnston:

No, no, I. Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But that's the way it seems to be.

Susan Johnston:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, this is a conversation I feel like we could continue on for quite a long time. And you and I had a broad ranging conversation before you even came on the air. And so I feel really blessed by that and blessed by the fact that you were willing to come in. I appreciate your openness and your honesty about this. And this is something that I think a lot of people can relate to, whether it's cancer or another serious illness and something that we don't get to hear about very much. So it's nice to know that there are potentially answers for this. You know, there are things that, you know, people could try that might actually work in cases like this.

Susan Johnston:

Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And as a doctor, I really appreciate your. This kind of insight because you're right that the way that things are set up now, medically, we deal with the acute issues, and then once something is kind of over and we've, you know, you're on your way, you know, unless something else happens that's more physical, we don't necessarily have people come back in again to talk to us about the.

Susan Johnston:

These things.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that's helpful.

Susan Johnston:

Yeah. I remember my rheumatologist, the first time I saw him after many years of not being diagnosed with lupus. And he said, this is not like a broken arm. He said, we are a team now, and you have to tell me what's going on inside you. And that's the only way we're really going to know and we'll work on it together. And I thought, and this is a long time ago, so this is 40 years ago. And I thought that's. That's a great doctor. So. So I. I experienced that, and I guess I was looking for that always the rest of the time, too. It's like it's not just the doctor fixing me. It's.

Maggie Clement:

It's.

Susan Johnston:

You have to be a team. You have to participate, and you have to look for what's going to help you, too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Absolutely.

Susan Johnston:

Whether it's cancer or broken bone, you know, you really have to. Have to channel your own resources, whatever they may be. So hypnosis can help.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think that I would love to be able to just get that little sound bite and play it over and over and over again for every single person who comes in who wants to be working with me on this, their health. Because I think that's absolutely true. I think it really is a team effort, and I really think that it comes so much more from one's own inner strength and resources than maybe people realize.

Susan Johnston:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've been speaking with Susan Johnston, who is a client of Maggie Clemen. She's retired from many successful businesses, ranging from decorative pillows and maternity clothing to show horses and custom homes. And also an avid tennis player. And. And I wish you all the best with your tennis and also with all of your other many endeavors. I appreciate your coming in today.

Susan Johnston:

Thank you very much. I really enjoyed it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have been listening to Love main

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

radio show number 249, hypnosis and health. Our guests have included Maggie Clement and Susan Johnston.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Follow me on Twitter as DrLisa and

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

see my running travel, food and wellness photos as bountiful1 on Instagram. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of Love Me and Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let us know sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Lovemain radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our hypnosis and health show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.

Maggie Clement:

Nice

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Susan Johnston:

and

[Unidentified voice]:

when I answer you say la la la la la don't tell me you don't want to know the ins and out my way or a how I spend my.