Judy Camuso, Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Judy Camuso is the Director of Wildlife for the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife. As director, Judy oversees the management, protection and enhancement of over 500 birds, mammals, reptiles and amphibians that call Maine home. Thanks for coming in.

Judy Camuso:

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

500 doesn't seem like that much. Is that really the. Is that actually the number? We must have gotten it from somewhere.

Judy Camuso:

Oh, so it's probably 500 birds, 16,000 invertebrates.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay. All right.

Judy Camuso:

A little bigger than that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. Well, thank you for clarifying because I don't know as much about wildlife, but it seemed like that number was a little on the low side. Tell me how you got into this field.

Judy Camuso:

It's an interesting question, and it's kind of a dull answer, but I was just always this way. So I'm an anomaly in my family. And I've, from the time I was a little kid, I was just always outside and, you know, interested in nature and wildlife. So it was just a natural sort of move, you know, career path for me. And I never, you know, really, I've never considered doing anything that didn't involve animals. So I went from, like, wanting to be a farmer to veterinarian to wildlife biologist. So pretty natural progression for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you say you are an anomaly in your family. What. What did your family do?

Judy Camuso:

Oh, my family, I'm from right outside of Boston, so they're just much more urban folks and more interested in skiing and golfing, more traditional sort of boating and stuff like that, but not necessarily counting birds or amphibians or whatever.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when they were out on the golf course, you were, like, hanging out in the rough and looking at the insects and things like that? Is that what you're saying?

Judy Camuso:

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So wildlife biology. Tell me about that path. How did that. How do you get from A to B when you want to become a wildlife biologist?

Judy Camuso:

Yeah, I mean, when I started in school, it wasn't as common a field, particularly for women, as it is now, and there weren't a whole lot of options or places to go. So I went to the University of Vermont, and I just met some folks, you know, some other students that were in this career, you know, or this major program, and, you know, I started taking some of their classes, and it just fit for me. It was just a really good fit. And I worked for a few summers at various national wildlife refuges, and it was just like, you gotta be kidding me that this could be a career. This could be something that I do for my, you know, for my whole life. And so I'm, I would say, really lucky in that sort of the things I'm passionate about in life are what I get to work on, which is. It's not that common, I don't think,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

a day in the life of someone who is a wildlife biologist. What would that look like?

Judy Camuso:

It's totally random. Varies every day, and it almost never is what you think it's going to be. And, you know, there's. I could tell a million stories, but, you know, one day I. For whatever reason I was. I rode my bike to work and, you know, I had a. I'm kind of a big lister. So I had my regular list to do and was going over the list and on my. On my bike ride in, and I get there and there's a. You know, the other biologist that I work with, Norm, at the time, was. He's, you know, sort of clamoring around and he's like, there's a moose. We just got a call from the game board, and there's a moose stuck out on an island in the androscogging river. And we need to go respond to that. So I'm like, all right, let me get my bike clothes off here and change. And so I go and call the game warden and start to make arrangements for that. And he's all set. And then within a couple minutes, there's been some kind of eider die off. And so now we're heading to respond to collect eiders. And then there was a small oil spill at the same time. And Then like a minor problem with some of the exclosures with our piping plover program. So it, you know, it's. None of those things are on my list to do for that day, but usually a normal day would be, you know, some kind of field work where we're monitoring, managing, researching some kind of wildlife. It's, you know, there's still a good amount of office work that isn't as. It's not. Not what you think of when you picture a wildlife biologist. But we all do have to do a fair amount of report writing and that kind of thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As a doctor, I find it interesting and challenging to focus just on humans and what you're telling me. You've just mentioned a moose and an eider, which I think is a duck.

Judy Camuso:

Yes, yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And a piping plover is a shore is a shorebird. I've seen the signs along the beach.

Judy Camuso:

Right, right, right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. So. And then we know about the amphibians that we've talked about and reptiles. I mean, how do you know so much about all of those different species?

Judy Camuso:

The wonderful thing. And in really, I don't. I'm much more of a generalist, and in my position now as director, that's. That's ideal. So I have a kind of a broad knowledge of a lot of things, but not real in depth. And so the department that I work for, Maine Fish and Wildlife, has a whole suite of what we call species specialists. And so they focus on either one or two species or a small suite of species. So we have someone that focuses just on reptiles and amphibians, someone that focuses just on invertebrates, someone that focuses just. Actually, moose has their own biologist. So there's some of our staff are divided up and they're more generalist, and they have to deal with the whole suite of species in their region. And then we have some that focus. And the folks that focus do a little more research on those particular animals that they're responsible for.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What are the responsibilities of the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife?

Judy Camuso:

So we're responsible for the management and protection and enhancement of wildlife resources in the state. So we oversee or everything inland. So we don't deal with the marine stuff, but everything from mayflies to moose. So we're responsible for making sure that they have healthy populations, healthy habitats. We do management for those species. We do oversee all the harvest and the bag limits for the species that are hunted, which is really just a small portion of the animals we have responsibility for. We do policy around those animals. And we, you know, we do all the recovery for endangered species in the state. So it's pretty broad responsibility. And then on top of it, we try to talk to the public about it and give them some education as to what we're doing and why.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Last fall, you were at Maine Audubon having a conversation with the public, which I understand was a spirit discussion. People were very engaged, from what I hear. What is it that people are interested in hearing about?

Judy Camuso:

Oh, I mean, it varies, I would say, in my experience, people just love wildlife, and so they love hearing about all the various projects that we work on. And the department has a number of initiatives that we include the public in and so that people can participate. And in general, and we've done a number of surveys recently of public surveys to sort of document this. The people on the state domain are overwhelmingly supportive and engaged with wildlife. So whether it's just the, you know, gray squirrels in their backyard or birds at their bird feeder, or people actively going out trying to see moose or puffins or whatever the case may be, it's one of the things I love most about Maine is that that people are really connected to their environment, more so than, say, in Massachusetts, where I grew up.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So is your job easier in some ways than it would be if you were in a more estate with more urban settings?

Judy Camuso:

Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of what we do in the department is manage human wildlife interactions, whether it's positive or not positive. So if there are folks that have issues, if they have, you know, you know, raccoons or other issues, that our job is to try and help those folks deal with those situations. So the more people you have interacting with wildlife, the more opportunities for conflict arise. And so we're lucky in that we don't have as many of those kind of conflicts or nuisance complaints as we would call them as many of our Southern states.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What about, I guess, the infringement of humans upon the wildlife habitat, which I would think is not as much of an issue in Jackman, but probably is more of an issue in Cumberland County?

Judy Camuso:

Yeah, yeah. So certainly that is something we deal with every day. And I would say it's one of the more important things that the department works on, and it's one of the lesser known as sort of the less sexy, if you will, aspects of our responsibility. So we do work with our sister agency, the Department of Environmental Protection, and we oversee and we provide comments for all the development projects in the state. And as part of that, we have several different habitat, wildlife resources that are Mapped as protected or significant. So we call them significant wildlife habitats. That includes areas for shorebirds, vernal pools, areas for threatened or endangered species species and wading bird waterfowl habitats. A lot of what we have mapped are either sort of water bodies in the kind of the borders around those or riverine systems and kind of a buffer. And so the things we look at are habitat for the individual species or, you know, the individual animal, but also then connections, so making sure that the animal can get from point A to point B if it needs to. And so usually rivers and streams are excellent connectors. So those are kind of critical habitats. So we work with DEP and provide comments to anybody applying for a permit to do some kind of development. And that's a huge portion of what we do. We also have a suite of staff that work specifically with towns and try to help towns do long range planning, do comprehensive planning so that they can incorporate what's important for their town, Whether it be they want open space or they want the ball fields in the right space. You know, whatever the case may be, we work with those towns to help them try and achieve those goals. Of course, our angle is wildlife habitat, but. Or fisheries and wildlife habitat, but you know, we work with all the different towns to try and accomplish sort of mutually beneficial goals.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One of the things that we ask people when they come in for the radio show is to a place in Maine that you love. And I never had anybody say the Brownfield Bog, which is. It's a beautiful spot. I believe that I canoed past there when I was on the Saco River.

Judy Camuso:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But it's unique. Yes. Why do you love that spot?

Judy Camuso:

So funny. Yeah, People probably pick more sort of well known locations. So Brownfield for me is a spot. Ever since I've moved to Maine, I've gone there every year. It's a fantastic birding location. The things I love about it are it's so close to Portland. So it's, you know, 45 minutes to get to Brownfield Bog. But once you get there, you feel like you are in kind of a vast wilderness area. There's. There's not really many neighbors. There's hardly any sounds. Once you're out in the bog. And I canoe the bog quite a bit, you can't. There's no houses, there's just no noise. And it's just right in the valley of the White Mountains. You can see Mount Washington, you know, so you have this incredible vistas. It's totally quiet. And I probably shouldn't be talking about it on radio because it's totally underutilized, which is what I personally like. You know, you don't run into other people very often out there. One of my responsibilities when I worked down in region A was to every spring we do basically bird surveys there. So I would do two or three bird surveys every spring out there. And some of it, you know, in order to meet our protocols for the birds to raise, I would have to leave my house at like 2:30 in the morning to get to the bog and get in my canoe and get up in the tree stand by like 4:30, quarter or five so that I could be ready when the birds started being active. But when you sort of visit a place so often like that, you really, at least I become sort of attached to it and intimately familiar with just the animals that are there and all the various species of wildlife. So it's always been one of my favorite places and it continues to be. Plus it has wicked cool birds. You know, those birds that you can't, you can see there that are really hard to see in other parts of the state. Black billed cuckoo, Yellow throated vireo are two kind of my. Or yellow billed cuckoo, a couple of my favorites. So I would always go there every year to try and find those birds. Anyhow,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

do you think that we focus maybe a little too much on moose? I mean, it seems as though it's become like the thing that Maine is known for. We have lobsters and we have moose.

Judy Camuso:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And not to disparage moose, I like them, they're fine. But considering all the other wildlife.

Judy Camuso:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the thing that's kind of compelling about moose is that they're big. Right. So they're easier to see than a lot of species. And they very often don't run off, so they allow you to watch and observe them. And most all other wildlife does kind of run off.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Right.

Judy Camuso:

Other than, you know, like squirrels might let you watch them, but most other species, most other animals are aware of your presence and they prefer not to be around you. So, you know, moose, I think are appealing to people because they let them observe them. And so there's a sort of a passion about moose. I think people, you know, do are pretty passionate about moose. It's certainly, you know, it hard to not pay attention to the economic value that animal brings to the state and that amount of tourism that people come in to Maine to see moose. But we do have a lot of other really cool species too, you know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So. Short answer is no. You think that we are not overemphasizing the importance of moose.

Judy Camuso:

Well, you know, I. When I first started my career at Audubon, my number one goal was always to try and get people to connect with nature in some fashion. It didn't matter what it was, whether it was plants, birds, you know, turtles, frogs. Just something to get them to connect to nature. And my goal was always, once people have a connection and then they be compassionate, they're willing to fight for and try and help protect those things. So, you know, for me, I always, like, if it's moose that connects someone, then great. It doesn't, you know, doesn't matter what the kind of trigger is, as long as we make those connections with people. So moose allow us to do that. But there are lots of other species. I agree that. That we could probably focus a little bit more on.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And to be clear, I have nothing against moose. Just anybody who's listening, please don't write me and say, what do you have against them? Because I love them, too.

Judy Camuso:

They're great. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I also understand that you were very involved with owls at one point.

Judy Camuso:

Oh, yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

At the Audubon.

Judy Camuso:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And we still have one of our producers, Brittany, who remembers being a child and holding an owl in her hand.

Judy Camuso:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So clearly it made a huge impression upon her and probably other children.

Judy Camuso:

I'm surprised that she remembered that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I banded northern solid owls for about 20 years in my backyard, and I did that sort of in addition to whatever job I had. And it was just an opportunity that I was afforded through a woman that I used to work with. And it's a tremendous privilege to have that opportunity. And as such, I was pretty adamant that we expose as many people as we could. Does not very often you have an owl, a wild owl in your hand. So when I was married and then after I got divorced, I continued to have people to my house. Probably 10 or 15 groups fall two or three nights a week. Almost every single night that there was good weather, you would have at least some people over to see the process. And, you know, so there probably have been a couple, you know, thousand people that have been through. I think for a while, I would. I would go into the grocery store and I would see people and they'd be like, oh, you're the owl lady. I'd be like, wow, that is one thing I do. But. So I certainly. I like to think that some people got an exposure that they didn't have and learned some things there.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You mentioned that when you first started in this field There weren't as many women that were doing this job. And that has changed.

Judy Camuso:

Yes, it's changing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Or is changing. How is this happening? Why is it that more women are getting interested in this?

Judy Camuso:

It's an interesting question. When I started in the region, I was the only female biologist in one of the regions and we had several women in our Bangor office, which is more research based. But in the regions there was only one. No, I was the only female. And I don't know exactly why, but it is changing. And you know, to, to be honest, I oversee a lot of that. I don't necessarily get involved with every single one of the interview processes we do, but for a long time there was just more men applying than women. And we did interviews just last a month or two ago for a position in strong, in our strong office. And they brought me the list of people they were going to interview. And the folks that had reviewed the interviews and come up with the list, they hadn't paid attention. And I looked and I said, this is the first time, I think in the history of the department that we have four men and four women. It's equal people that were interviewing and there'd been like 100 people that had applied, but so now we have quite a few women. And it's probably for the wildlife division. It's not quite 50 50, but it's, it's still probably 60, 40. But I mean, I'm the first female director and I hope that as more, more women enter the field and more women enter leadership positions that will encourage more people to, or more women to get involved in the field.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how do you personally stay connected with nature? You talked about canoeing in the Brownfield bog. What other types of things do you do that are outside of the job that you have?

Judy Camuso:

Yeah, I do, I do a lot of hiking and. Oh, I guess hiking might be an aggressive term. I do a lot of walking in the woods. I still, you know, I still love to canoe and bike and I used to do a lot of birding. I don't do as much birding anymore, but I still do, I still do a good deal. I pay attention wherever I am to what kind of birds are around me. I garden a lot. You know, I'm. I am outside, if possible most of the time in my, in my free time.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that must be very interesting that you have this position which probably requires a fair amount of office time and paperwork, but really your passion is outside the office and probably not as much paperwork.

Judy Camuso:

Right, right, right. Yeah, I definitely. And it's the challenge, I think, for a lot of people in this field is that kind of as you move up in the agency, there's less and less field time. And I think I was interviewed a couple years ago and it's the first time that it's ever occurred to me. But the interviewer asked, what's your favorite thing? What's the best thing about your job? And without thinking, my response was, the people I work with. And I got into this field for wildlife, right. And for. To protect wildlife. And my whole life, that's all I ever thought about or focused on was protecting wildlife. And, and then, and then my answer without thinking was, the people I work with. And I said like, when did that happen? When did that switch? You know, so it was interesting kind of for me to see that. But, you know, now I really do. My job is to make sure that everybody else can do their job. And I still get to go. And in some ways it's one of the benefits of my job. But I can still call the moose biologist or the bear biologist or the shorebird biologist and say, like, hey, I need a day in the field. Would you mind if I tag along? And that usually will accommodate me. So I try to get out as much as I can. It depends on the season, but usually in the summer I have a little more freedom when the legislature is not in session. So I try and get out still.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What are some of the issues that have been important to your department in the last few years?

Judy Camuso:

Well, I would say we just finished up a big game plan, which is a 10 year plan for how we're going to manage sort of our four big game species, bear, moose, deer and turkey. And so making sure that we have the tools that we need to manage species at a population level that's healthy. And so that kind of healthy term is questionable for people because it's got to be both healthy for the animal. So my. Our job is at least all of our staff, their primary focus is they want healthy wildlife populations. They don't want animals that are starving to death or dying of heavy parasite loads, things like that. But then there's the other component of it also has to be healthy for people, right? So there's a social carrying capacity and a kind of a biological carrying capacity. And so our job is to make sure that one doesn't kind of trip the other. So, you know, we could probably have more deer in southern Maine, but that would not be in the best interest of the people that live in southern Maine. So finding some of those balances and how we're going to find a way to move forward. You know, there's. There's no question we have had two referendums on our bear hunting methods. And so that's always kind of lingering and making sure that we can maintain a healthy bear population that doesn't have a lot of negative interactions with the public. We've been very lucky so far, and we don't have a lot of poorly behaved bears. That's how I would phrase it with some. Some of the other states have really quite a bit more aggressive bears than we have. And so we want to make sure that we can maintain healthy bear populations that are able to kind of coincide with the public that they live around. So I think that's kind of always our goal.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

For an individual who is interested in getting into your field, somebody who's maybe in high school or early in college, what's the one thing that you could suggest to them to kind of keep them motivated to study?

Judy Camuso:

Yeah, well, it's an awesome job. It's, you know, I don't know of many other opportunities where you really do get to be outside a good portion of the year, year round. I mean, so that's not always a plus for everybody because the weather conditions, you know, can sometimes be a bit extreme. But, you know, you get to be outside, you get to work with people who are passionate and help protect populations of wildlife. So it's a pretty fantastic job. It is pretty competitive field and there's not, you know, we only have 45 biologists in the department. So it's a pretty, you know, tight competitive field. So I encourage people to, and I think this is what I put is you got to figure out what you love and figure out what you're passionate about and do that, whether it's birds or reptiles or mammals or whatever the case may be, bugs or butterflies, and figure out what you're passionate about and just follow that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I've been speaking with Judy Camuso, who is the director of wildlife for the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife. As director, she oversees the management, protection and enhancement of birds, mammals, reptiles and amphibians that call Maine home. Thank you so much for coming in today.

Judy Camuso:

Thanks for having me.