Karl Strand, Sugarloaf Mountain Resort

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Karl Strand is the general manager at Sugarloaf Mountain Resort, where he has been skiing since 1987. Thanks for coming in today.

Karl Strand:

Oh, great to be here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I know that you're not just a skier, you're actually kind of a you're a full range of outdoor activities kind of person.

Karl Strand:

I love the outdoors. Yeah, I love to fish, hike, mountain bike, do a little bird hunting. I love to be outdoors.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

When did you know that you wanted to have a career in this industry?

Karl Strand:

I've always been a skier. I skied my whole life, actually. When I was young my parents didn't ski, so I had bum rides with neighbors and so forth. And then I was in the ski club in high school. But I always loved to ski and my whole career has been in the hospitality industry, so they've always coincided with either being in golf or being a resort somewhere. But the way I came to Sugarloaf was I started going there in the late 80s with some buddies from high school and we went up every year and fell in love with the place. Got to know a number of people that are still there. And John Diller, who was my predecessor, called me about 15 years ago when I was right after I'd gone through a divorce and asked me if I wanted to work up at in his hotel and run the food and beverage department. And I thought he was talking about Sugarloaf, but he was talking about Sunday river, actually. And at that point I didn't even know where Sunday river was, but packed up my kids, I went in the car, went to Sunday river, and I worked there for about 10 years, and I ran the lodging division there and at Sugarloaf. And then I was the mountain manager at Sunday river, and I became the general manager at Sugarloaf.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it's not just a love of the outdoors that you need to have in order to do the job that you do. You also have to have, well, experience in hospitality, as you said, but also experience with numbers and management and logistics. There's a lot of different aspects to your job.

Karl Strand:

There is. It's almost like running a little town. I say that a lot because we have daycare, we run a ski resort, we have food and beverage. We have a number of different other things. We teach skiing. There's a small police force there. So you have to know a lot about different things. And I think you always have to try to work all those different departments, too, so you understand how to manage them better. I do have a degree in business. I learned that part of how to read a profit and loss statement, so forth. But the hospitality part of it, you just got to live it, learn it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What are some of the lessons that you've learned from being in hospitality over the years?

Karl Strand:

I think the big part is just you have to listen to your customers. They'll tell you what they like or what they don't like. And sometimes you can think, like, I have a background in cooking as well. You may overthink your customers and think that they want to try your greatest new creation, but they'll tell you what they like and what they don't like. And then once they. Once you do please them, they're your best advocate because they'll go out and promote you. And I think that's what I learned is just to really listen to the customers. If you want to be successful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Sugarloaf has needed to maintain a certain level of excellence, but also continue to evolve in order to stay active in the marketplace. The last time I was up there in the winter, I went to visit the Carabasa Valley Academy Competition center, which is obviously a huge new addition to your landscape. What's that like to balance out an industry that's very dependent upon weather and snow and people visiting, so there's some uncertainty there, but also needs to have a constant building in order to stay current.

Karl Strand:

I totally agree. I think any company needs to grow, and you need to adapt to whatever's happening in the marketplace. We have generations of skiers at Sugarloaf, but every generation has new needs and wants. One of the things we've seen on the new competition center, I mean, is one of the things that we can point to that one of our newest buildings, actually first building in 20 years. So it's very new, but that's just to reinforce our position as a skier's mountain. We're known for that with cva, like you said, the only, the only resort above the tree line in the east. We have trails that can host downhill events. I think the only one in the east. So we're known as a skier's mountain, so that the new comp center reinforces that. But, you know, other things we're trying to, you know, reinforce our children's programs to introduce new people into the sport. Another avenue where people do get introduced into the sport is college age or 20 something. So we try to focus products and stu to promote either young families or college so we can keep growing our sport as well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've had a number of Olympic skiers come out of Sugarloaf as well as World cup and really world class skiers. Does that surprise you?

Karl Strand:

No, I don't think so. I think one thing about Sugarloaf, which I really love, is the community there. And there's a community sense like the, the town really grew up around the mountain. So everybody that lives and works here really enjoys being there. And I think it attracts people, you know, that love being at Sugarloaf, but also it attracts people who are better skiers, are good skiers, it's challenged skiers. It attracts families as well. But I don't think that surprised me because of what we're known for, what our DNA is about being a competitive skier's mountain.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

When you think about what you need to do in order to keep a broad range of ages and really a pretty large demographic happy, what are some of your biggest challenges?

Karl Strand:

I think, you know, one of the things that's changed in the last 10 years or so, or probably even more, but more so in the ski industry is just, you know, the Internet and how people, how we communicate to our guests through marketing and how they make decisions on purchases. But that's generational. There's still people that old time sugar loafers hate to say old time sugar loafers, but still reading the paper and doing all that, and I know they comment to me a lot, say, well, you're not on the paper so much as anymore. And I said, well, do you have a, do you have a Facebook account or Twitter? Twitter. So, you know, it's just how we're changing, how we're communicating. And I think that's a challenge is just to how to communicate to the new generations that are coming in and getting them excited about skiing and getting them, you know, exposed to outdoor activities and recreation and so forth.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It seems to me that you are really competing in the worldwide marketplace versus just competing against other ski mountains in Maine. Is that true?

Karl Strand:

Yeah, I think for Sugarloaf, is really a destination resort. More than half of our revenue comes from season pass holders. Sunday river, it's a lot less. And Loon, our other sister resort, is even less than that. They're more dry market. So we do compete, you know, regionally with other destinations resorts. And I think it's the same thing even internationally. And so we have to have amenities and gear, our services to people who, you know, are going to come and stay for a day or two more than they would at some of the other places. So, you know, that's a challenge, but something we welcome.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

When I was there last, I guess it was spring, late, late winter spring, you were hosting a world junior championship. And so you were bringing people not only competitors, but also their families from lots of different places. And I wondered if people were comparing Sugarloaf against some of the other big resorts that they had been to and competed against.

Karl Strand:

Oh, I'm sure they have. That's actually, that was the second time in three years that we had that competition come to Shulo and. And it's because we can host those type of events. Yeah, you know, we did get. We have a way of surveying our guests so we can get some feedback. And we did get a lot of feedback about Sugarloaf. And I think a lot of people were surprised because it's in the east and how well it skied and how competitive it was. I think it's a perception of ski resorts in the east compared to the west and, you know, Europe, that they're not as high, they're not as competitive. But I think people were generally surprised at how well it skied and how competitive the mountain is.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I noticed that it attracted a fair number of really big name journalists. So we had ESPN and I think Nessen was there, but big, big names. So when I was there covering it for Maine Magazine, I kind of felt like the little fish in the big pond. But I was impressed with the fact that Sugarloaf was able to bring these people in to cover this competition.

Karl Strand:

Well, we're glad you were there.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, thank you. That was good. But it was, it was very much, you know, it felt like one would feel in a higher level competition.

Karl Strand:

Well, it is it's the. It's the championship of and for United States. The best skiers in the United States go to that championship. So it is the best of the best. So, you know, and it just, it reinforces what Sugarloaf to bop is. Skiers mountain, you know, competition having that high level. Like you said, a number of Olympic skiers have gone through either Carabassett Valley or skied at Sugarloaf, and we're proud of that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Tell me about your relationship with cva, Carabassett Valley Academy.

Karl Strand:

I think we have a great relationship with them and with the town of Carabassett. I think it's all three of us work hard together to try to promote each other. I think we all at all, we all succeed together. And I think we're also trying to help each other when we can. We all kind of coexist. So it's kind of one big community. I don't see it as really three separate parts.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It also seems as though you're drawing people to the competition center who aren't just from cba. You're drawing kids who are coming in and doing more like weekend type training programs. And this is something that you've been doing for quite a while.

Karl Strand:

Yeah, that's part of our ski programs. We start the children off very small, and then when they get into their teens, they can go into the weekend program, which is run by cva, which is kind of a feeding area for them to perhaps maybe they would eventually going to CVA or going to racing somewhere else. So it's always trying to build the sport. Either if you just become a recreational skier or just enjoy free riding, or if you want to be competitive, you have all those different abilities or avenues that you can be introduced to all those different things.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You also are known for the Sugarloaf Marathon. You have a golf course. When we were there for homecoming weekend, I think there was a race up the mountain and down, which I did not do because it seemed very difficult, but. So you're also trying to appeal to people off season and maybe even people who aren't skiers at all.

Karl Strand:

Absolutely. You know, we've been trying to last, well, for a while, but the last two summers, trying to build our summer business. Like you said, we're very. Our business in the wintertime is very dependent on weather. And I don't know if you remember two years ago, it just rained and froze up and rained, and that was one of the worst weather winters we had, I think, since the 70s. A lot of people stopped me. And then this Year was one of the best we've had in the last 15. So it's up and down. It's hard really to manage that with. With just relying on winter business. So we're trying to build our summer business. And like you said, we have a golf course that just got raided to top 100 in the United States. Again, we're trying to build our wedding and conference business. We have a lot of events that we're trying to do. We have a number of free concerts this summer that have been well received. The marathon is sold out every year. You know, we had the run to the summit, which you talked about, and. And if you did run, I'd see you on top, because I'm at the top. I don't run.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You didn't run up there.

Karl Strand:

I cheer everybody on when they get to the top. So we are trying to do that just to help the cycle of business levels in the winter, depending on the weather. We're trying to build a better base year round. Another big thing that's happening up in our area is mountain biking. We have great trails, Carabasa Valley trail system. It's right out of our Nordic Center. And the town's been working with CR Nimba, which is a bicycle club, for lack of a better word, and working on trails. They grow it every year. And it's really. It's comparable to the Kingdom Over Burt, but it's not as marketed as much. I don't think people are aware of it, but it's really excellent mountain biking.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You mentioned your events and weddings. You've had a nice upscale restaurant come in to the base lodge within the last, I think, five years or so. I think you renovated and you brought in a new chef. And it seems as if this is something that's increasingly expected by people who are coming to a destination like Sherloaf.

Karl Strand:

Absolutely. I think Portland's driving a lot of that. Just the success here with chefs and the food scene is amazing. So, you know, people have that frame of reference of good food. And so. And like I said, we're a destination place. So when people come up, they come up an extra day or two. They want to have that experience as well, and they want to enjoy different types of cuisines and their expectations are higher. So we've been trying to bring in better chefs and renovate some of our existing facilities. And, you know, I think we've done a good job with that. I don't think may not be on the level of Portland, but we're doing a good job with that and it's kind of fun to do too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Have you felt pressure to renovate your existing lodging facilities as well? I know that traditionally skiers, they come, they don't expect too much, you know, as long as they, they have a place to lay their head at the end of the day and a place to dry out their ski boots and a place to kind of shove all their family in. But now it seems as if, as if you might need to have people, you might need to have places for people to stay that are comparable to some of the nicer hotels.

Karl Strand:

I agree. A lot of our, even our hotel are owned individually. The hotel is a condominium owned hotel. Work with homeowners association. So we work with them as partners to try to encourage them to renovate. And there is an effort in most of the associations to put the renovation on some kind of cycle so it stays fresh and new. But that's a challenge a lot of times when you're working with a big group of people to get them all focused on the same task.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and it's a challenge too because you still have guests that are expecting the old fashioned kind of lodging where you can kind of bring all your stuff in and just dump it on the floor. And then you have guests who are maybe not even going to ski. They're just going to hang out in the room while their family goes on skis. So they're expecting something a little bit nicer.

Karl Strand:

Yeah, that's interesting you say that because we see that a lot during holiday periods when people come up, they're not just coming to ski. And a lot of the guests don't ski, so looking for other activities to do. And that's when we try to do other things in the village area and have some alternate stuff other than skiing for them to enjoy. And we've seen in our guest surveys that their scores have gone up through those efforts, so. That's exactly correct. You know, they're looking for more things than just the ski experience.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think I'm remembering that you have concerts up there. You have a New Year's Eve bash that's pretty big. When I was there, the Ghosts of Paul Revere actually played kind of spontaneously down in the pub. So it seems as if the word is getting out.

Karl Strand:

Well, that's great. Yeah, we're trying to do more and more, expose people, expose Sugarloaf to more people. And you know, it's a fun place to come. It really is. Again, I go back to the community. People just enjoy being there. And when you're there. That just translates from the people that work there to the guest. I think it's just a fun place. People like to come up and just kick back, you know, not be ski bums, but enjoy themselves, relax. And there's not a lot of pretension. It's just a fun place to be. So any. Any other things like concerts and so forth will reinforce. Reinforce all that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You just completed a big sale within the last six months or so, a sale that took, you said, three and a half years to finally complete. How are you feeling now about this?

Karl Strand:

Well, it's interesting. The company that I work for is Boyne, and they actually manage. Well, in the east, they manage Sugarloaf, Sunday river and Luke. But the asset of the mountain is owned by a different company. Used to be called C and L, and it was a real estate trust. The. They sold it to this new company called oxif. And they're a bank, investment bank. So the management contract survived that sale. So we're still working for Boeing. And that part hasn't really changed. It's just the new owners that come in and then the availability to capital and so forth for large capital projects. So that's what may be new. You know, we're working on some ideas and there may be some things coming in the near future, but that's the exciting part because now we have a new owner.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So give me an example of what you might do with the capital that you now.

Karl Strand:

Well, I mean, capital can include anything from expanding our snowmaking capacity, redoing a restaurant, putting a new lift in any of those type of projects that are big enough in capital that are out of the area of a normal renovation that you would do every year.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've worked both at Sunday river and at Sugarloaf, and you mentioned that Boyne is responsible for both of those ski areas. When I was growing up, there seemed to be more of a competition between the two, having lived in Maine all my life. But now it seems as if maybe that competition has eased somewhat, means someday bigger. Okay, so maybe it hasn't eased that much. I'm not sure.

Karl Strand:

No, it has. It has. I know there used to be a sign halfway up the super quad that if you were at Sunday river, you'd be at the top now. And I know that was taken down, but we thought about putting it back up. But there's a friendly competition, I think more so from Sugarloaf towards Sunday river and then Sunday river towards. When I was at Sunday river, people. Oh, I'd love to go Sugarloaf on the mountain, Sugarloaf. Someday bigger. It's fine. I think it goes back to when less otknown both and some animosity still remains there. But I think it's more just kind of fun, you know, friendly, kind of battery jabbing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'm glad to hear that because it definitely sounds as if there's. There's room for both in Maine. Some people like one better than the other for different reasons. Some people have a different allegiance based on their families and where they're located. What are you doing these days about the effort to stay sustainable and green? I know that when I was at CVA interviewing some of the people that were part of the competition, one of the things I noticed was that the lights kept going out because they were motion activated. And so there was a very purposeful choice to make lights that would. Would stop requiring electricity when they didn't need to. What other types of things are you doing at Sugarloaf?

Karl Strand:

Well, we've invested a lot of money in the last five years on snowmaking equipment that is more efficient and actually worked with the state of Maine with their program where they rebate based on efficiency. We have to prove the efficiency. And then you have to retire your old equipment, which we did. And also it not only uses less. Well, it uses the same amount of water, but less air as well. So we save money on electricity doing that. We've also worked with the state of Maine replacing all our light bulbs, you know, more efficient. We're actually, you know, all about efficiencies. So ski business is a tough business. And you have to really, I mean, just like, I guess a lot of Mainers, you know, we're very frugal about how we spend money and efficiency, so we're looking any way we can. But also, you know, we're an outdoor recreational, you know, company, so the environment's very important to us. I mean, you. Our product can be reusable, 100% goes back into the earth, and we're all about wellness and green effect. And we worked a lot with DEP whenever we do anything on the hill, so it doesn't affect the environment there. Even our snow cats, we have. We're purchasing more efficient ones that have burn less or a bit less carbon into the atmosphere. So we're doing everything we can about that. And I think not only we are passionate about that, but our guests are too. So I think they see that. And, you know, we're all on the same page.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

When I wrote an article about the ski patrol for the Sugarloaf issue, I believe it was two years ago now. I spoke to people who had really, this had been their entire career and they had been doing it for years and years. And I think some people who are listening to our conversation might be surprised that you can have a year round full time career in essentially skiing and recreation.

Karl Strand:

Well, a lot of them, you know, they take, they take a number of different jobs too, in the summertime, you know, I think it's more just the passion of being there and loving what they do. And they'll make that commitment not only for themselves but their family to, you know, take whatever jobs they can in the summertime so they can continue doing what they love in the wintertime. Ski patrollers are, you know, they're a great breed. You know, they're the ones up there, you know, testing to see if a trail can open and sliding down things that most people can't, and then going places where every year we have somebody go off our backside of our mountain, which is unfortunate, but the ski patrollers are the one that chase them down, make sure that they're safe. And I really admire them, what they do, but also it's just that love of the community, love of Sugarloaf that drives people that want to stay there for so long and do whatever they can just to enjoy where they are.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing about your ski instructors and your ambassador program, that there's really. There are many different groups within the, within your facility that have a longitudinality to them. There really is this love of the mountain.

Karl Strand:

Absolutely. I mean, my predecessor, John diller, was there 40 years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how long do you think you will be there?

Karl Strand:

I don't know. I'm going to be around in 40

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

years, but a few more.

Karl Strand:

A few more, yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I've enjoyed our conversation. It was great to see you up at the mountain last year. I'm sure I'll see you back up at the mountain again this year. I've been speaking with Carl Strand, who is the general manager at Sugarloaf Mountain Resort where he has been skiing since 1987. Thanks for making the trip down.

Karl Strand:

Thank you for inviting me.