Kids #30

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

There's a great quote that I came across too, that was by Robert Louis Stevenson and the quote is life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. So that to me embodies a lot of what we mean by resiliency.

Zoe Romano:

Just a huge motivation to go and actually see the kids and hear them like ask, what are you doing? You're crazy. You're running the country. Can I do that? And just to see like in real life why I'm doing it. And the kids would always want to run with me or play soccer. And that was just definitely one of the highlights of the trip.

Tony Myatt:

It started off as just a little fun run that people did. There were only like 10 people that ran it the first year in 1930. I took over the race in 2010 and when I took over the race in 2010, I said, you know, I want to see a thousand people at this race again.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Hello, this is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 30 kids. And in fact, we hope you are and we hope you've listened to the previous 29 shows. If you haven't, please do so, become a subscriber and join us in our moving forward in the wellness world in a very positive and happy way today, kids, we think is appropriate because of course, it's April. I'm sitting here with Genevieve Morgan, my co host and wellness editor for Maine Magazine. Hi Genevieve.

Genevieve Morgan:

Hi Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And this is an exciting time of Year for kids. How are your kids feeling about they

Genevieve Morgan:

have some spring fever? They certainly do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, we had a run of nice weather and we've had some cold weather. Hopefully by the time people are listening to this, we'll be back into the nice weather again.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, and we just had parent teacher conferences, so they're also needing to buckle down on their homework before spring break.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Oh, yes, right. That makes a lot of sense. Well, we're going to be speaking with Dr. Jeanette Andonian, who is a coordinator of Master's in Social Work program at usm Zoe Romano, a runner and blogger who raised funds for the Portland Boys and Girls Club and Tony Myatt, Patriots Day Race for Boys and Girls Club coordinator. So it's hopefully amongst all of that information, you and I will both get some ideas about kids and parenting.

Genevieve Morgan:

I think it's true. It would be great. And I think parenting is one of these things that it's the most exciting, bewildering and confusing and exceptional things that we can do as humans on the earth. But it's very, very challenging at times. So I'm looking forward to hearing from our guests.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Before you became a parent, did you anticipate that it would be as challenging and complex as you found it to be?

Genevieve Morgan:

Never. I think anyone who's ever gotten a dog knows that you start to take your dog for a walk and you think, oh my God, I'm getting so much benefit out of having a dog. I love my dog. It's so beautiful. But there's so much work. And you times that by a hundred when you have children.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. Plus you have to birth to them in many cases. Not always, but yeah. So it is a lot of work and it's a lot of work to raise healthy and resilient kids. I mean, there's sort of different levels of parenting, I think.

Genevieve Morgan:

And I think there's so much in our culture right now that feels very threatening, at least to me as a parent, between all of the screens and the bad nutrition and peers and drugs and all, it just feels like everything's sped up. And trying to maintain your own balance as a parent and then create balance, a balanced life for your kids is very challenging. At least it is for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How old are your kids, Genevieve?

Zoe Romano:

Remind me.

Genevieve Morgan:

15 and 12.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I have an 18 year old, a 16 year old and an 11 year old. So we have somewhat different, well, sort of intersecting.

Zoe Romano:

I know.

Genevieve Morgan:

I keep looking to your 18 year old thinking, oh, she's done it, she's done it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, well, and he's in Guatemala and volunteering for safe passage, so. But you still are a parent. That's the interesting thing for me is you think, okay, well, my kid graduates from high school, I've graduated as a parent. But you really haven't. You've just sort of moved on to the next stage.

Genevieve Morgan:

I don't know this to be true, but people say that you never stop being a parent, even when you have 50 year old children.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I suspect that's actually. So when you were. You and I were both at Bowdoin at slightly different times. But when you were at Bowdoin, did you put a lot of thought into what it would look like to balance being a working mother and being a parent, you know? No.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, you had nine younger siblings, so you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I did.

Genevieve Morgan:

I was the only girl in my family. Well, I have four stepsisters, but I did a lot of babysitting when I was younger and I loved little kids. I don't know if you, you were probably babysitting your siblings all the time.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I was. And I did love them. And I did love little kids. Yes. In fact, I volunteered to become a camp counselor and things like that. Yes.

Genevieve Morgan:

So I always thought I would have children, but I didn't realize that you don't get to go home

Zoe Romano:

as a babysitter.

Genevieve Morgan:

You get to go home. So I remember going out with friends when I was living in San Francisco before I had children and they had children and thinking, oh my gosh, they spoil their children. I would never do. And you know, you have this whole holier than thou feeling about it and then you have your own children and you think, oh my gosh, now I finally get it. And I think every stage of parenting it happens. My brother has younger children and I think he thinks that I am the most lax, unbelievably, you know, allow my kids to do whatever they want because my kids are about six, seven, eight years older. Like I let them walk to town by themselves and I let them do all this stuff, watch tv and I just think, just you wait until your kids are teenagers. I think it's all that, it's all a learning process. But what about you?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think I sort of caused my own. I dug my own grave a little bit, so to speak. Although I do love my children. Just want to put that in there. But because I said, you know what, I am never having kids, I think those are famous last words. You said that at college. I'm sure I said it earlier than that. I mean, I love.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, you did have Nine siblings.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I had all these siblings and they're really great people. I love them so much. I love my parents so much. But there's just you do you parent at some level from very early on when you have these children all kind of coming up behind you. So I said I would never have children. And then I got pregnant my first year of medical school when I was 21. I had just gotten married. Oh my goodness. My husband at the time, he and I lived two states apart from each other. He was in Portland. So yes, the miracle baby there. And then you have this child. And the interesting thing for me was I have never loved, and I did love his dad, but I've never loved anything so much as I love this little tiny baby. And I was so determined to be a doctor, but I was so determined to be a good mother. And that really was something I did not anticipate. I mean, I wanted to be a part of my kids lives from so early on and I also wanted to be a good doctor. And for me that's always been the interesting challenge is to be able to balance all of these things, to be an individual and to be a parent simultaneously. And I think that will always be the case.

Genevieve Morgan:

I think so. And I think that challenge that you're feeling, a lot of people feel right now, how do you do, how do you make money, how do you keep house, how do you make sure that your kids are involved in the right activities and have the right care and do well in school? And it can feel very, very challenging and be actually stressful. But I do think that the moments of joy that we have with our children and places where we can celebrate with them are a great antidote to all that stress.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I agree. And this past weekend I was out looking at clothes with my daughters who we don't shop a lot because we don't. You know, I don't really believe in spending tons and tons of money on things, but it was just the love of design with my older daughter, my 16 year old, and it was the love of being with her mother and her sister that came through with my 11 year old. So it was that interesting time of connection. And it's that time that really reminds me why I'm a parent and why I keep showing up and sometimes doing things that are hard, you know, really fostering this resilience in my own kids and knowing that sometimes the choices I make are going to make me somewhat unpopular as a mother and yet they are the right ones to make.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, I think that's a good point. You don't have to be perfect, you just have to be available.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. Showing up is a big chunk of it most of the time. Yeah. So today we're going to speak with Jeanette Andonian, Zoe Romano and Tony Myatt, and they're all going to talk to us about resilience and kids and parents parenting in different ways. I think only Jeanette has children herself, but I know that Zoe and Tony are going to talk about the Boys and Girls Club and how that is helpful from a parenting and kid standpoint. And I think people are going to enjoy the show.

Genevieve Morgan:

I hope so.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast features a segment we call Wellness Innovations, which is sponsored by the University of New England. This week's Wellness Innovation was provided by the Economic and Social Research Council. Teenagers who turn their backs on a healthy lifestyle and turn to drink cigarettes and junk food are significantly unhappier than their healthier peers. New research also shows that 12 to 13 is a catalyst age when young people turn away from the healthy habits of their younger years and start to get involved in risky behaviors. Results of this study show the young people who never drank any alcohol were between four and six times more likely to have higher levels of happiness than those who reported any alcohol consumption. Those who smoked were about five times less likely to have high happiness scores compared to those who never smoked. Higher consumption of fruit and vegetables and lower consumption of chips, sweets, and fizzy drinks were both associated with high happiness. And the more hours of sport youth participated in per week, the happier they were. For more information on parenting as a wellness innovation, go to Dr. Org

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

today we're very pleased to have in the studio with us Dr. Jeanette Andonian, who is featured in the current issue of Maine Magazine. It's the wellness issue and it's pretty appropriate to Genevieve Morgan, my co host and I that parenting be a part of wellness. So thank you for coming in.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

You're very welcome.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And the article that was written was actually written by Genevieve Morgan. So you've spent some time together?

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

We have.

Genevieve Morgan:

It was an interesting topic because we discussed a main concept in child development and child rearing that's been talked about quite a bit in research lately. So. And what was it?

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

The topic is on Resiliency and you know, resiliency. And I think I said to you during our interview that I think that resilience is probably one of the most important concepts in child rearing and in mental health today. And that's for many, many reasons. And we have, we now have a number of decades of research to support how we understand what comprises resilience. And, and that the other reason I think it's an important concept is because it kind of cuts across, it informs mental health practice. And as a professional, that's a very important thing. As a teacher to teach my students about resiliency and social work is really important, but it also informs parenting. So I think it's a very important and applicable concept.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I know that we've found this in health. In fact, one of our early shows was with Dr. Was with Julie Sullivan who's the director of public health for the city of Portland. And we talked about adverse childhood events and the impact of ACEs they call them, on children. So what we do with our children and sometimes quote unquote to our children, it does have an impact.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

It does have an impact. And adversity can mean a lot of things. So when we think of the term adversity in theories of resilience, there are what we call risk factors and protective factors. And risk factors are the things that we think of. They might be adverse events, they might be characteristics of a person. They kind of cut across the individual, the family and the community domains.

Genevieve Morgan:

And they can be different for everybody.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

And they can be and usually are different for everybody. And everybody has some risk factors in their lives.

Genevieve Morgan:

So what are the protective factors?

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Well, I think what we have to understand first are a little bit about the risk factors. Then the protective factors make sense. So some of the risk factors for instance for an individual might be say, you know, you're, I'm going to talk about infancy. In infancy, a baby that's born in poor health or has some kind of health challenges or has kind of a difficult temperament. Now temperament is something that's genetically, that's part of our genes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But maybe a colicky baby.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

A colicky baby, exactly those kinds of things. And then as a child grows up, maybe the child has poor social skills or has low self esteem or has impulsivity. Those are some risk factors that reside within an individual family. Risk factors might be things like family conflict or families where there's poor supervision kids or where there's, you know, parents aren't involved in their kids activities or there are this financial stress. So there's you know, poverty or job insecurity, things like that are familial kinds of risk factors. You know, parental substance abuse or mental illness are other ones. And then community risk factors could be, you know, socioeconomic disadvantage, crime ridden neighborhoods, poor schools, just lack of opportunity for recreation, just lack of opportunity overall, poor services, et cetera. So those are just a kind of sampling of what we consider to be risk factors. But understanding risk factors alone tells us very little because we think of what protective factors are. And protective factors are those things that buffer against those kinds of risks. And we know from a lot of the research that's been done that longitudinal studies is one study in particular that is widely cited and is kind of foundational. And it was a study that was done by Emmy Warner, who followed almost 700 individuals for 40 years, 40 plus years, over their whole lives, looking at all kinds of variables in their lives. And what was learned from that was that.

Genevieve Morgan:

Is it across the country?

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

It was in actually based in Hawaii. What was interesting about the study too is that there was very little attrition in that study over all of that time. You'd think that you'd lose people along the way, and she lost some people, but it was actually a fairly good sample all the way along. And being able to trace those people for all of that time. And what came out of that, the interest was, okay, so the question really was about why is it that some people, when faced with adversity, are able to rise above and kind of move forward and succeed and others are more challenged. And that's an important question. And so the.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, because it's about a lot of people think that your character is just cut and dried. You know, you're born one way or another.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

That's right. That's right. But there are also protective factors that have been identified and are kind of well known now. So there are just as there are risk factors in all of those different domains that I mentioned before, the individual, the family, community and larger environment. There are the same kind of protective factors that exist in those same domains. And so we look for those things. So that's why it's inadequate just to say, oh, wow, this person has all these risk factors and the cards are stacked against them. That is A, not fair, B, not even accurate. Because we also have to look at protective factors which essentially are buffering factors.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you talked about this in the Maine Magazine article a bit.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yes, yes, a little bit.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what are those.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Those factors are. We can go back to kind of thinking about early relationships, certainly positive Attachment. A secure attachment in the family is important within an individual. And so even in a situation where you have a baby that has, say, a colicky temperament, like we mentioned before, it's kind of difficult to manage as a baby and can really stress out the caregivers. It becomes the task then to work with that baby and to find supports for yourself so that you can manage that baby to develop a secure attachment.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when you are talking about attachment is that that's how the mom and the baby bond.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

It's a little bit beyond bonding. Bonding is more kind of the early imprinting that goes on right after a baby is born. Attachment actually is a description of the relationship, the quality of the relationship that unfolds over time. And attachment.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It doesn't have to be a parent.

Genevieve Morgan:

It can be a single parent, a caregiver.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

I'm going to use the term parent or mother generically because it can be, you know, it might be a grandmother, it might be somebody else who is serving in that capacity with that particular. But an attachment relationship unfolds over time through experience in relationship. I was talking with my students about this yesterday in class, actually. We were talking about the reciprocal relationship. So attachment becomes really important. And attachment is important because it serves as the foundation for how that child comes to understand the world and the people in it and what gets internalized and what gets taken in from that experience. So that is a protective factor. Secure attachment is a protective factor if a child is given opportunity and has good problem solving skills and has generally kind of, as a child grows up, a kind of sense of purpose, has positive values and has a history of being able to engage in activities and succeed at them. So development of a sense of competence is important. Those are important kind of individual protective factors in the family, certainly supportive family, caring family, where there's relatively good harmony and everybody fights, but nothing's ever perfect. But that family harmony that provides kind of a secure, stable environment for the child. Kind of senses of responsibility within the family and for the child to be involved in that as well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What does that mean, a sense of responsibility? Is that doing tasks around the house or a sense of community or what does that mean?

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

It kind of means all of those things. I think that people have a responsibility to each other in a family. And if the family culture supports that kind of a stance and that responsibility to each other and responsibility to do certain things right, that chores, in order to run a family, things have to be done.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay, well, so I'm interested in this because my children do chores. I Did chores when I was growing up. I mean, I don't like, you know, beat them with a switch and make them sweep out the coal dust.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

You're not gonna make your three year old, you know, do the dishes and,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

you know, very age appropriate. And yet I see we went out to dinner one time at a person's house and something, I don't know, some stuff got on the floor. And so I asked the kids, so where's your vacuum cleaner? And he looked at me and this is a long time ago, so I'm not outing anymore.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

It's at somebody else's house.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Somebody else's house. And he said, I don't know.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I, I had to stop and think, the kid doesn't know where the vac. I said, well, how about a broom? He said, I don't know where that is either. So talk to me about kind of the way that we've started to emphasize the importance of children as individuals versus children within a family structure. Is that something that you see happening within our society?

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

I think that there has been, there have been so many movements in parenting over the years from the kind of, you know, the kind of helicopter parenting, you know, protecting the child from

Genevieve Morgan:

chores,

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

chores, or anything that's kind of going to get in the way or anything that's sort of negative to create as positive an experience.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The free to be, you and me thing.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Right. And I kind of see a shift back. And this is, I don't have. This isn't backed up by any research, but just in my opinion that it seems like the pendulum is swinging somewhere back into the middle where people understand that in order for kids to develop the capacities to move forward in their own lives, they need to have some sense of responsibility for themselves, need to be given opportunities to develop those kinds of skills and competencies in order to move forward. Or else we disable our children if we don't.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I think that's a really important point. I mean, I have a son who is 18. He's in Guatemala volunteering for safe passage. And what he found was he left and he was the captain of the baseball team, captain of the soccer team. He was going to go to Bowdoin. He had his whole life in front of him, but he was like kind of a superstar. And when he got down there, he worked like the rest of the world works. And I don't know if this is maybe part of my parenting fault.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

I don't really know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But I do think that we've raised. And this is not a Bad thing. Perhaps we've raised a generation of children who are used to being on display, who are used to being sort of revered for their individuality.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And again, not a bad thing. But I just wonder how this is gonna play itself out.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah, yeah, I think that, that, I think that is to a certain extent what you're saying is true. But I think that people are becoming more aware of the need for kids to take on other kinds of responsibilities that may be in situations where they're not going to shine, situations that are going to challenge them and they're going to come home and say, oh God, that was really an awful day. Oh God. You know, my boss yelled at me. If they have a part time job and how you help them to deal with that kind of degree of adverse situation and move forward with it and cope with it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And that speaks to your resiliency.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

That's right. And so resiliency is really about coping and adaptation. And coping really refers to the kind of skills that we employ to navigate those complex situations like the one you are describing. Like how is he going to cope? He has to find muster within himself a way to cope with that situation that he's never been in before. At the same. And then coping then turns into adaptation when those coping skills get internalized so that it gets generalized to another situation that he encounters in the future that he can draw from because he's had that experience. And those things are protective factors, those kinds of coping abilities that set the stage for future adaptation in other adverse situations.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So we almost need to be introducing or at least not protecting our children from all evils.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We need to be exposing them to very safe ways of practicing these coping skills so that they become resilient later on.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah, yeah, well.

Genevieve Morgan:

And you have a very interesting take on discipline which I'd like you to talk about because we've talked a lot about that.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah, we have.

Genevieve Morgan:

And the word discipline.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah.

Genevieve Morgan:

So tell our listeners your theories about that.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah, well, I always think about the difference and I, I hearken back to this article I read years and years and years ago that was written by Bruno Bettelheim, who distinguished between punishment and discipline and how punishment really comes from the outside in. And that discipline is something from the inside out that's generated from the inside out. And that what he talked about in this article was that in order for a child to develop discipline, they have to be disciples to follow. So that as a parent, as a mod, that you need to be a sort of disciple that that child can look up to and follow and take in the values that you uphold in your belief systems. And that's kind of, it can seem kind of daunting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's a lot of pressure. You have to be a role model for your child.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah, you have to be a role model for your child. So discipline, the kind punishment actually doesn't really create a sense of discipline. And sometimes kids need some sort of consequence for something they've done and that might be experienced as a punishment. It's not that you should never use that, but that I think when Bettelheim was talking about that years ago and of course he's a controversial character, we won't even get into that. But. But he did have some words of wisdom about some things that I think that we he was talking a lot about kind of the harsh punishments that people often employ that do not actually what it just teaches the child is to avoid the punishment, to do whatever they can to kind of it creates a rift in the relationship and the child won't come to you with things.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

And I don't know where it came from exactly, but I've always had a sense that the world is not a fair place and I wasn't treated unfairly as a child. I came from a middle class family but grew up in an immigrant family and understood that the oppression that my Armenian relatives experienced, my grandparents on both sides came here to the United States to flee the genocide that was perpetrated against the Armenians in the early part of the 1900s. And they came here to escape that. So they lost a lot. So there was a lot of loss and there was a lot of reconstruction of life here, creation of community. And I saw early on how powerful that sense of community was. And I was very active in the Armenian community myself back then and to some extent as much as I can be now here in Maine. But I think have had a sense of the impact of social injustice on the lives of people across generations, the kind of intergenerational patterns that emerge as the result of that kind of trauma. So that doesn't quite answer the question about why go into social work specifically. But I always wanted to always had this interest in the underdog sort of

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

leveling the playing field.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Leveling the playing field and how things are not fair and how some of the smartest people I have ever met were people who didn't have the advantages to, you know, to succeed in the ways that people maybe who were, you know, kind of lesser skilled even were able to do because they had means.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Why did you choose to focus on parenting as part of your social work training? I mean, you have a doctorate in social work, and you could have gone in any different direction. Why parenting?

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Well, it's not my specialty. Hasn't been parenting per se, so it's not really that parenting is my thing. But I have been very interested in mental health practice with children and families. I. I've been in private practice and have worked with kids and families and people throughout the whole life cycle. Even adults who are coming, presenting with issues at their own kind of adult developmental transitions, which I've worked with people kind of retrospectively as they're reviewing what happened to them as children. I've always been interested in the genesis of human problems. Where do they come from? How. Answering the questions about why, even though we can never know exactly why. And I always say this to my students, too, that I teach a course at USM called Critical Thinking about Theories of Human Behavior. And we kind of COVID a range of theories. I always tell them that one of the things that you learn is that theories won't have the answers for you, but they will help you to ask questions, and they will help you to understand what you don't know and what we don't know as a society, but help you to. It humbles you to kind of explore human problems and to try to understand why they came to be.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, as you've told me before, all society begins in childhood.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah. Yeah. We all carry with us these kind of templates from our childhood that are not fixed in stone. That's the other thing I want to say here, that just because somebody is. Comes from, has piles, is steeped in risk factors in their lives, it doesn't mean that that's their path, that they're destined to kind of always live in that kind of a situation. Because it's really amazing what people can do. And as just to kind of quote, this woman named Nan Henderson, who's a social worker who's written a lot about resiliency, the title of one of her articles that she wrote about resiliency is quote, unquote, hardwired to Bounce Back. That we're hardwired to Bounce back.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We did a show Actually, one of our first shows back in the fall was on breast cancer survivors and it was about resiliency and it was about this ability to bounce back. And now I'm sitting here wondering. So obviously these are things that they were doing as adults, but I'm really wondering how much of this kind of came back from, came from what they were doing in their childhood, what their parents were doing with them, and how far back that went.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

I think when people are thrown into a crisis, like getting a breast cancer diagnosis or getting some sort of really bad news about something, that it's really understandable that somebody in that situation might really crumble for a while, really crumble. Because the coping mechanisms that they have developed to deal with their routine day to day lives don't really work in the face of that kind of a crisis. So there's kind of a breaking down of coping and until. But what adaptation does, if you've gone through difficulties in the past, that you muster it, People muster strength from way down in the wellsprings of their soul. You know, they find it and they rise to it and they cope and adapt. When I was working in New Orleans and at, I worked, I was a, a supervisor at a program for the healthcare for the homeless and I worked with the homeless population and everybody used to say to me, oh, that must be such a depressing job. How can you stand working around those people? And I thought, you know, those people, it's not an us and them what you would find. It was one of the most hopeful places I ever worked because no matter how low you see people at their worst at the homeless clinic, they're kind of at a really low point. But some of those people, many of those people were not always at that point and had full lives and are educated and had, you know, significant accomplishments in their lives, but lost everything because of some tragedy or some other kind of circumstance that was not within their control. So I saw tremendous resiliency even there.

Genevieve Morgan:

I'm wondering for our listeners if any of them out there are troubled or worried about their child right now. What are some of the, what are some things out there that they can do or outreaches or places they can go to talk to someone?

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Oh yeah, there are lots of places you can go and talk to somebody. But I think the first thing that you do is you use your relationship with you. If you're worried about your child, you have worries about your child, don't keep it to yourself. Transparency is really important. Showing concern, using your relationship, your attachment with that child to Talk with them, reach out to them, and if you can't resolve the problem with them, there definitely seek help. There are lots of people out there in private practice. There are places like, you know, where there are outpatient clinics where you. Where you can bring your children and call to make an appointment. Places like Maine Medical center or Community Counseling center here in Portland, where even if you don't go to those places, you might be able to get a referral to somewhere. There are the national association of Social Workers on their website, they have a directory of licensed social workers who are in private practice all over the state.

Genevieve Morgan:

So don't do it alone.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Don't do it alone. You don't have to do it alone. And that's part of being a resilient family. And I did want to say, you know, I also want to say that I think that sometimes when people, if people happen to come from privilege, sometimes they think, oh, well, risk factors aren't. We don't have any risk factors in this family. But sometimes it's just not so obvious, or you might not be willing or able to kind of look at what might be there, because sometimes they get hidden by the privilege. And it's not always the case that certainly there are some risk factors that you won't be facing, like economic strife, but that if that, you know, there were other kinds of risk factors that might be involved.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it's all about showing up and paying attention and being willing to be open.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Being willing to be open.

Genevieve Morgan:

And in the column that you and I created for this month's wellness issue, we go through different life stages and different parenting tips. So if any of the listeners out there want to read more about your philosophy and the concept of resilience and some of the tools that you use as a parent, they can read it in the magazine.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah, yeah. There are some pointers there, and you could write a dissertation on any one of them. It's the truth. So that. But I think the overall message is to be paying attention, build your relationship, and not to be fooled by the fact that as your child develops, they sometimes will push you away, seem like they don't need you anymore. They need you more than ever. They need you more than ever through adolescence. So be paying attention to that. And I also, there's a great quote that I came across, too, that was by Robert Lewis Stevenson about that I think sort of sums up resilience. And Emmy Werner actually has used this quote in the preface of her book on her research. And the quote is, life is not a Matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. So that, to me, embodies a lot of what we mean by resiliency.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, those are wise words indeed. And we've been very pleased to have the chance to Talk with you, Dr. Jeanette Andonian from the University of Southern Maine. I know people are going to want to go to the Maine Magazine website and read your article by Genevieve Morgan and also perhaps pick up a copy on their local newsstand. So thanks for coming in.

Dr. Jeannette Andonian:

Yeah. Thank you for inviting me. It was a pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We had the good fortune to speak with Jeanette Andonian from University of Southern Maine about parenting and some of the things that foster resilience in children. And we have with us today Zoe Romano, who I think is probably a pretty good exemplar of resilience. Hi, Zoe. Good to see you.

Zoe Romano:

Good to see you, too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We heard about Zoe because she's friends with Leanne here at Maine Magazine Maine Home Design. And Leanne said, you know, I have this really. I hear you're going to do something about the Boys and Girls Club. I have this really inspiring friend and you should definitely meet her. So somehow the universe brought us all here in the same room. And the more I read about you, the more inspired I actually am. I have also sitting next to me, Genevieve Morgan.

Genevieve Morgan:

Hi, Zoe.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Hi, Zoe. You graduated from Portland High School.

Zoe Romano:

I did.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How long ago?

Zoe Romano:

In 2005.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

2005. So you're a relative youngster. Genevieve was pointing this out that it's kind of ironic that we're talking about kids and parenting and you don't have any children yourself, I assume.

Zoe Romano:

No, I don't.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But you do some tutoring.

Zoe Romano:

I do, Yep. With a 7 year old and a

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

4 year old in Spanish. Mm. This is your professional life, but tell us about this. Tell us about the running that you do and why it's a bit crazy. You ran from Huntington beach to Charleston, South Carolina, right?

Zoe Romano:

I did, yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's a long ways.

Zoe Romano:

It is about 3,000 miles.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Why did you do that?

Zoe Romano:

Well, I love running. Obviously I didn't always love running, but I thought last year About a year and a half ago, if I could just be outside all the time, moving around, that would be an excellent lifestyle for me. And. And so I kind of started dreaming about a run across the country. And I wanted to do it to raise money for the Boys and Girls Club. It's just an organization that's really close to my heart. And so I just kind of put that love of running with the love for the Boys and Girls Club together. And I said, I'm going to run across the country. And I started telling all my friends about it. I knew once I voiced it, I would have to do it because I didn't want to go back on my word. And actually, one of my friends had a friend who had just completed a run across the country, and he did it and loved it and survived. So I thought, this boy can do it. I can do it too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, how did you do it? I'm interested in the mechanics of all this. I mean, from what I understand,

Zoe Romano:

you

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

began sort of running around the Back Bay in Portland, three and a half miles. That was how you began your running a really long time ago. Yes, but that's a big difference between that and all of those thousands of miles. What are the mechanics of running that far?

Zoe Romano:

Training beforehand, There was definitely a love of running that grew between that first time around Back Bay and when I decided to do this run. I think sometime in college, running just became a really good release for me. A really good, just kind of private time. Running can almost be a selfish endeavor, I think, to just get away from life and sort your thoughts out. And so I really, I grew to love running in the in between time. And then, you know, I ran some marathons. I did some half marathons. And I used to, while I was in college, every Saturday I would wake up around 10 and run all day until 4 in the afternoon and then hit up the dining hall and have a great feast. But so that was, I mean, that was kind of my idea of fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It was a long distance run on a Saturday. You know, I have to tell you, that's what I do on Saturdays. And people think I'm crazy.

Zoe Romano:

Yeah, there you go.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Do people think you're crazy?

Zoe Romano:

They do. We're not though.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay. No, that's good. At least the two of us, we could sit and know that we're not crazy.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How does one go about running from Huntington beach to Charleston, South Carolina? I mean, I assume, do you have a backpack? I mean, I can only imagine how one does this. You must have to stop at Night. How do you do it?

Zoe Romano:

Yeah, it would have been neat if I had just a backpack, but I actually had a stroller. Speaking of kids, I had a baby stroller, so a lot of people thought I had a baby with me along on the run. I didn't. There was just all my gear inside, extra pair of shoes, tent, food, safety gear, all that kind of stuff. And so I pushed the stroller. And then at night, about 25% of the time, I would stay at hotels that would donate a night for free. And then the rest of the time I would stay with host that I found through the Boys and Girls Clubs in each city or through city halls, through churches. And I think before I left, I probably had 60% of my lodging planned for and prepared and taken care of. And then my parents actually did a lot of the legwork for me back in Maine while I was running. They would call ahead to the next town and they had a fax system to tell the police about what I was doing to contact churches and city halls and find me hosts. So my parents said they definitely helped a lot.

Genevieve Morgan:

Were you ever afraid?

Zoe Romano:

That's a good question. I think I was afraid just twice, really. The first week. I had kind of a truck following me for a while at night, which was kind of spooky. And then I was afraid of dogs on and off. But I carried treats and pepper spray just like this.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You got a carrot and a stick. So if they're nice to you, they get one thing. If they're not so much, they get the next one.

Zoe Romano:

Exactly.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What about your parents? Were your parents afraid?

Zoe Romano:

They were very afraid, yes. My mom told me before I left to take a picture of her and her beautiful brown hair because when I returned, she told me it would all be white or fallen out. That didn't happen, but she was very worried for me. I think my dad was just as worried, but was more. He hid it well, I guess you could say.

Genevieve Morgan:

So you had this intention and you brought it into the world and you manifested it and you actually dedicated it to the Boys and Girls Club. What was it about the Boys and Girls Club that was so wedded in your heart?

Zoe Romano:

I actually never went as a kid. I was never a member. But I. Like I said earlier, I went to Portland High School and the clubs were right across the street from the high school, so I could always, you know, I stayed late after school to do sports, etc. And I could see kids just looked like they were having a ball inside. And I could see kids waiting for them. To open their doors after school. And I feel almost like I went to it because I grew up just listening to my dad tell me stories about his days at the club because he was like a lifetime member when he was a kid. He was always there with his brothers. And so I feel just through his stories that I almost went there. He, you know, he told me he learned to play foosball there. He learned to swim. It was just a really good environment to nurture kind of a creative spirit and to also help with homework or just with any issue. You have a ton of issues when you're a kid, and I think the Boys and Girls Club does a really good job of helping or addressing nearly all of those issues, like being alone after school, needing homework help, peer pressure, needing to find friends and an environment to explore. Do I like cooking? Do I like sports? What do I like? I think that's a really good job they do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

In addition to raising money for the Boys and Girls Club, were you able to raise awareness about their mission?

Zoe Romano:

I think definitely another part of what my parents did in terms of groundwork. They would call newspapers and news stations in almost every city I ran through. So I was constantly meeting with journalists and news stations as well as any town there was a club in. I would do my best to stop at the club and talk to the kids. And I think there was only two towns where just the timing didn't work. But every other town or city that had a club, I would go and visit. And that was, like, just a huge motivation to go and actually see the kids and hear them, like, ask, what are you doing? You're crazy.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You're running across the country.

Zoe Romano:

Can I do that? And just to see, like, in real life, why, why I'm doing it. And the kids would always want to run with me and. Or play soccer. And that was just. That was definitely one of the highlights of the trip.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you blogged about this as you went along?

Zoe Romano:

I did, yes. Every night from a cell phone.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Oh, wow.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you were using your thumbs to blog?

Zoe Romano:

I was, yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Is that blog still available for people to read.

Zoe Romano:

Yep. It's Zoe goesrunning.WordPress.com and so people can

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

find out about your adventures with the dogs and the truck driver and playing soccer with the kids.

Zoe Romano:

Yeah, you can read all about it.

Genevieve Morgan:

Zoe, you are 24 years old, and you have an incredible sense of motivation, internal motivation. How did that come about for you?

Zoe Romano:

Definitely my parents just telling me every day, still tell me every day you can do anything you want. You can be whatever you want. You just go out and do it and let us know what we can do to help. And I think, I guess I was smart enough to listen or just lucky enough to have that in my childhood, because we really can't. We all can do whatever we want. Just go out and do it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'm inspired sitting here listening to you, Zoe. I don't know if I'll run across the country for my next run, but what you've done is amazing. I hope people will go and read your blog and tell us your blog again.

Zoe Romano:

It's Zoe Goes running.WordPress.com and good luck

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

with making your decisions about Italy this summer.

Zoe Romano:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Will you be running in the upcoming Boys and Girls Club race?

Zoe Romano:

I will, yes. My mom just reminded me about it, actually, so, yes, I will. And hopefully maybe get a pr. A personal record.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, that would be very good. We'll be looking for your name. Everybody look for Zoe. Roger. There's no pressure there at all.

Zoe Romano:

Jeez.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, right?

Zoe Romano:

Don't say that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, thanks for coming in and talking to us today, Zoe. We appreciate it.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yeah.

Zoe Romano:

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

as part of the doc release, a radio hour and podcast, we like to spend time with local organizations or individuals representing local organizations that are doing good for the community, that are helping people give back. And as part of the theme of today's show, which is kids, we are now in the studio with Toni Myatt from the Boys and Girls Club of Portland. It's nice to see you.

Tony Myatt:

It's great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Tony, you you're going to talk about this great race that I have run at least twice before. It's coming up very soon. Tell me about the 83rd boys and girls Club Patriots Day race.

Tony Myatt:

Absolutely. Well, it's been going on for 83 years. It started off with the Alumni Association. Actually, no, it started off before that. It started off as just a little fun run that people did. There were only like 10 people that ran it the first year in 1930. And as a result, they kept on having it be like it was the race to do for the longest time until into the 1970s and 80s when the running boom took place. They had the race there and they didn't even charge any money for it at all. And then some local races started doing it and they started doing their own races and charging a little bit. So they decided it'd be a great way to do a fundraiser for the scholarships that they've given out every year since 1963. The boys and Girls Club Alumni association is the people that put this race on. And they've been around since 1959, the association, and as a result they've put on the race for the last however many years.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now I have sitting next to me, Genevieve Morgan, my co host. And Genevieve I know does some running. Tell me what this race course looks like.

Tony Myatt:

Well, it starts right out on Cumberland Avenue, right up the street from the Boys and Girls Club, right at the corner of Cumberland Ave. And Pearl street and basically it goes Cumberland Ave. To Forest Ave. All the way down Forest Ave to Baxter Boulevard, goes all around Baxter Boulevard and goes briefly over Bates street and turns right onto the Tookies Bridge and stays right on the path on Tookies Bridge and goes right up to Washington Avenue and then it turns right and finishes on Cumberland Avenue and it's fairly flat for the most part. There's a few hills stuck in there some places, but it's a fairly good course. A lot of people like it and it's the oldest 5 miler, oldest race in Maine, so.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'm interested in this and I don't know, Genevieve, I know you're gonna pipe in in a minute. I think about the 1930s, that's like sort of chariots of fire time. And I mean, did they even really have official sneakers back then? I mean, these questions are. Yeah, so you. This is a very big thing. 83 years.

Tony Myatt:

Yes. Probably not if you've seen T shirts in the past. There's actually been some people. There's pictures of the first Patriots Day race and basically they have. They're all doing a floor start, like they're gonna sprint, like they want to try to win the first corner of the track. And it's something like, you know, it was something that was just a casual, fun thing. And now it's grown quite a bit. The event hit its peak back in 1991 when it had over a thousand people register for it. Unfortunately, through the years, because more and more races have evolved. They haven't quite reached that since. And I took over the race in 2010. And when I took over the race in 2010, I said, you know, I want to see a thousand people at this race again.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Are you a runner?

Tony Myatt:

I am a runner myself and I.

Genevieve Morgan:

Do you have to run it? Can you walk it?

Tony Myatt:

Oh, you can, absolutely. Yeah. Walkers are definitely welcome. We have a trail vehicle that's following all the runners from behind and there's a police car that's going to be leading it. And runners, people run it and walk it every year. It doesn't matter what you do run, walk or crawl.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How can people find out more about the Boys and Girls Club or the upcoming Patriots Day race?

Tony Myatt:

Well, the Boys and Girls Club has a website for the Boys and Girls Club of Southern Maine. And, and that's www.bgcmain.org. and you can register for the Patriots day race on www.baystatevents.com. and you can always stop in the Boys and Girls Club for an application during club hours. And you always have the opportunity to mail in an application or register online. Again, the cost is only $15. It's $20 race day and the first 500 people get a shirt. And there's free pizza afterwards provided by Papa John's. And there's also the awards. We've expanded our awards category. New this year, we've expanded it to having club teams and corporate teams to help bring more participants to the race.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it looks like there's also a pasta dinner.

Tony Myatt:

Yes, pasta dinner, $7. All you can eat on Saturday, April 14. And that the kids 12 and under are free. So if you have kids, you can make it a family event for a very reasonable price. And we want to get more people to come to the pasta dinner because it's a great place for runners to socialize and talk to people. And it's a reasonable price that won't break your budget.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, it sounds like you could have an entire weekend of fun for a very small amount of money.

Tony Myatt:

You sure could. And if you have any relatives or friends that are from out of state, the Clarion Hotel in the Airport Hotel. The Clarion Airport Hotel, excuse me, is on 1230 Congress St. Is offering $79 per night for up to four people for a hotel room. If people. If you have friends or family that want to come up and stay.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Very good. All right. We hope people will join you on Sunday, April 15 at 12 o' clock

Genevieve Morgan:

and carbo load at the pasta dinner before.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, Exactly. At the 83rd annual Patriots Day 5 Miler, which is supporting the Boys and Girls Girls Club of Portland. So thanks so much for coming in and joining us.

Tony Myatt:

My pleasure. Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you have been listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 30 with the theme of kids airing first on April 8, 2012. We hope you have learned much from Dr. Jeanette Andonian, coordinator of the Masters in Social Work program at USM Zoe Romano, runner and blogger who raised funds for the Portland Boys and Girls Club, and Tony Myatt, director of the Patriots Day Race for the Boys and Girls Club. We hope that you'll be inspired to think about perhaps the ways in which you are interacting with your own children or children that you might be pseudo parenting, let's say. And perhaps you'll be inspired to go out and do a little running, maybe even in honor of the Boys and Girls Club. For more information on the show, go to drlisabelisle.com to download this podcast or other podcasts like it, go to drlisabalis on itunes. Please also consider becoming a friend of ours or liking our Facebook page or contacting us to become a subscriber of our E. News. We do appreciate all of the helpful feedback we get from listeners such as yourselves. We know that this is an hour out of your day and we appreciate the time that you have taken to become a part of our community. Community as we grow the hope of wellness and health in a much bigger way than perhaps has previously been thought of before. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. Thank you for being part of our world. May you have a bountiful life.