Life as Art #237

Eric Hopkins:

I associate myself as a musician. Visual musician Music Improvisational jazz Visual jazz.

Emma Wilson:

They're gonna look in the mirror and they're gonna be focused on different things. We all are. We're human. But that doesn't mean that they need to feel any less loved.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine radio show number 237, Life as Art, airing for the first time on Sunday, April 3, 2016. Life informs art and vice versa. As human creatures, we benefit from experiencing art as a way of helping us explore some of the larger questions we may find ourselves pondering. Today we speak with internationally known Maine based artist Eric Hopkins about how his art has been shaped by his interaction with the world. We also speak with Emma Wilson, Managing Director of Art Collector Maine and the Portland Art Gallery about an innovative project focusing on the body as a work of art. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

today it is really my privilege and pleasure to have with me a renowned Maine artist who I think if you've lived in Maine or really anywhere in the country for a while, you probably have seen something that he has done. It's quite beautiful work and in lots of different media. This is E. Hopkins, who is a graduate of the Rhode Island School of Design and who has taught at the Haystack Mountain School of Crafts as well as many other places. Eric has exhibited at the Farnsworth Art Museum, the Portland Museum of Art, many galleries and other museums nationally and also has exhibited as part of the Art in the Embassies program. Eric, it's really great to have you here today.

Eric Hopkins:

Thanks. It's great to be here. Really great to be here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One of the things that I have to start with this one of the things that I love most about at least the paintings that you do is that there's a lot of blue in them. And blue is one of my favorite colors.

Eric Hopkins:

Yes.

Emma Wilson:

Yeah.

Eric Hopkins:

Well, you know, when I was a kid, the space program was just starting, and I think it was 1961. Yuri Gagarin went up for a little, little shot, and he looked back and said, the Earth is blue. And he was the first guy off the planet and away, not just in a plane, but he was orbiting the planet. And blue is a dominant color in this world, in this planet, both the sky and the water reflecting it. It's a pretty important spectrum, part of the spectrum.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you actually look at the Earth in a way that not everybody has the opportunity to look at it, unless we spend a lot of time ourselves flying commercially, or maybe we are fighter pilots or whatever. But you actually on purpose go up in the air and you look at the Earth from above, right?

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah. Like a bird. Like a bird, or like the big guy in the sky. The God's eye view. Bird's eye view. Sometimes people say, oh, you really fly high enough to see the curvature of the Earth? I said, yeah, I could see the curvature of the earth right here in this room, even in the closet, because guess what? I see it with my eyes. My eyeballs are round. And as humans, we've let that roundness of life, the connectivity of life go. And we draw straight lines and we isolate everything with straight lines and little boxes and everything. So I like to think of the roundness as well,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

you spent a considerable amount of time working with glass, and obviously there's some roundness associated with glass.

Eric Hopkins:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Not every artist wants to go in that direction. Why was that important to you?

Eric Hopkins:

I probably was a little rebellious at times growing up. And I was told not to play with fire and not to break glass, so what could I do? I remember we built like my brothers and cousins and I would go camping 10, 9, 10, 11 years old, build these huge, hellacious bonfires. Way back when, Coke was made in glass, was stored in glass bottles, real thick, greenish glass bottles. And we drink the Coke and put them by the fire, and they'd kind of melt and kind of sag around and take sticks and poke it. And I thought, yeah, that's pretty good. And then eventually I was night watchman at Haystack School of Crafts when Erwin Eich, a German glassblower, was there. And I saw it, blown glass for the first time. And I thought, wow, that's for me. So I did it. And my first piece of glass was I gave to my 104-year-old grandmother for her birthday, it was this awful blob of glass, but I did was really fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So not everybody would choose to say go up in the air or experiment with fire and things that break or do things that are can for some people be very scary. You don't seem to be scared by these things.

Eric Hopkins:

Can't help it. It's fun. It's alive, you know, being alive and moving. And I think when my brother drowned, my 5 year old brother drowned and when I was 10 and I saw his wet dead body there laying still. He shared a room, we shared a bedroom together and he was still, he'd stopped moving. And I realized at that point very, very distinctly a memory, not even a memory, but the visual is very strong. But I realized eventually I'm not going to do that. I want to keep moving. As long as I'm moving, I'm alive. And I choose life, choose to be alive. And that's really important. Also the space program was going on. It's not a flat earth society. Remember Christopher Columbus was going to sail over the edge of the world. So I as a kid and growing up on an island, I thought a lot about what's over the edge. And so that sense of movement, of space, of this blue island Earth going around the sun, that's pretty important stuff. So there are all these movements going on. And I didn't know much about physics, but in science in particular, I have a science concept mind, but not the measuring all the numbers and the realities formulas. But I remember seeing those scientists on their chalkboards saying we get out of Earth's gravity this way and that way, then we'll get the moon's gravity and pull around. So that was all about the timing, time and space and movement through space through time. Kind of heavy ideas, but that's at the basis of a lot of what I do. And I ended up at Montserrat School of Visual Arts in Beverly, Mass. And studied with a guy, Paul Scott, who had studied every day for seven years with Hans Hoffman. And he was studying, we talked about the push pull of that flat two dimensional plane and making it come alive through movement and on that dumb white dead floor, flat, white space. So to activate it, bring it to life conceptually, visually was real important for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One of the pieces that I like in this book that Carl Little has written called Eric Hopkins above and beyond is a very simple cloudscape. And it's not, I like a lot of your pictures, pieces, many of which are blue. This one just happens to be the clouds themselves. But there's something really almost simultaneously, I guess, mystical and whimsical. It's as if you take things seriously, but don't take things seriously.

Eric Hopkins:

It's called balance. That's what it's all about. Balance. Health and wealth and wise. And balance. And I think a lot. And when I'm working, painting or whatever, I don't think a lot. I just get rid of that damn old brain mind, get it out of there. There's no place for it. It's like, you know, you can practice your scales. As a musician, how would you say? I associate myself as a musician, a visual musician. Improvisational jazz. Visual jazz. And there's a lot of structure there. And you have to think about that structure. There's something very strong and very real. And then you take off. You go off in this free form, which really gets to the essence of things. And that's what I think you're talking about how. Yeah, the study is definitely there. There's a lot of thought going on behind it. But the real, true expression, it's like, you know, breathing. How do you think about that? Can you hold your breath for 30 seconds?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Right now I can't.

Eric Hopkins:

And we're not going to do it

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

on the radio until right now. It doesn't make very good radio anyway.

Eric Hopkins:

But that sense that so much of. If we had to think about holding our breath and not breathing, it would be pretty difficult. So we naturally breathe. All these parts of our brain are working for us, keeping us ticking as is. And so I think that's my one goal, one of many goals, is to be natural, like breathing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's interesting to see some of the pieces that you've done, because I wouldn't necessarily think of trees perhaps looking the way that you've created them. But then once I see them, I think, well, of course, of course they look that way. I mean, they can look many other ways, but of course they look the way that you've made them. It doesn't seem as if you need to be hemmed in by what other artists have created as trees.

Eric Hopkins:

No, I. Again, a lot of that comes from flying and breaking down things into simple elements. And I think that's part of that Paul Scott, Hans Hoffman thing is just breaking it down into very essential, simple, basic shapes, lines, colors, elements. Elements. Elemental rhythms, patterns and flying. I noticed there are a lot of these pointy conifer trees. And in a plain, you want to stay out of those pointy, toothy type trees, alligator tooth trees. And then at the same time the deciduous trees come up from one point and arc out. So it's just in terms of breaking down those two basic kinds of trees. It's like the point at the top and then the point at the bottom with the arc on the top or numerous arcs with the branches. So that's some of what I do. Try to break it down into real essence, real elemental rhythms and patterns.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've also been a teacher. How do you help the people that are learning from you understand some of the concepts that you're describing?

Emma Wilson:

To me,

Eric Hopkins:

mostly I tell them to forget everything they've been taught, get on a big plane and throw it all out the window. You know, you can learn. You got the stuff already. You were born with it, you learned it. Kids go to school, they get taught to not trust themselves, to not do what's natural. And I get in trouble sometimes. But my one son who engineer, went to Maine Maritime Academy, got out in three and a half years. And I get rant in on schools, how they wreck kids and stuff. And he looks at me, he says, dad, I couldn't have done what I did if I hadn't gone to school. And so I tried again. Balance is really important. Man, I couldn't stand school. That was the worst thing to do. Stick a kid in a box with a bunch of other kids in rows and get knuckle slap. And not doing the right thing, man, it's just not good.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I must say, you are the only guest we've ever had who took off his shoes and socks before he sat down to talk with us.

Eric Hopkins:

Well, I need to be in touch with the earth.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes.

Eric Hopkins:

The wood, the trees, the metal. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And isn't that interesting that that's so important to you? And I can imagine that that would not translate well into a classroom setting.

Eric Hopkins:

No, not at all. I get in trouble a lot, or used to. Now I get the license a little bit more.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So why do you think that is?

Eric Hopkins:

Cause just do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Somehow you get away with things that you never got away with.

Eric Hopkins:

Well, yeah, I mean, teachers in school. Sorry, teachers, a lot of teachers. There are a lot of good teachers that have really learned a lot of things and taught me things and particularly coming back around to Maine and mentors are different form of teachers. And I think that's some of what I've been doing more informally as a mentor by putting things on the wall, by talking on radios in back alleys and beaches and rocks and places. The importance of mentors. And little kid about this tall in the thorndike Hotel in Rockland. Standing with my brothers on a rainy day. The ferry boat didn't go looking at these black boxes with all these weird shapes, all organized somehow, kind of laughing at them, but knowing that this is elevated high art. And this was Louise Nevelson, her brother's hotel. And here I am, this little kid looking at these organized junk, all painted black. And Louise Nevelson right here in Rock Le, Maine. I thought she was, as I grew up, I thought she was like this rock star of art and a woman. It was natural. Didn't think there was any real gender specificity to being an artist or because she's a woman, she couldn't or could be an artist. It didn't make any difference. But then I found out later, 70s, 80s that she was just getting going, you know, I'm talking about in the 50s, getting some notoriety for her work. And so that importance of mentoring is really important. Blackie Langley, down the street in Cushing, I saw his wood pieces. There's this other guy at the Farnsworth Museum growing up, did these lot of shingles, kind of gray, kind of bleak looking stuff. An old lady sprawled out in a blueberry field. And you know, that was kind of real too, kind of very realistic, arty kind of thing. But I didn't relate to that quite as much. That's Andy Wyeth. And so those are kind of pretty broad extremes of teaching right there in basically in Rockland, Maine. And growing up around that, these are real people. I remember I did a talk somewhere, I think in New York City. And this antique woman came up to me afterwards, shaken and just pretty shriveled and old, been around long time. She said, oh dear, I'm so envious of you. I grew up and every Saturday my parents took me to the Metropolitan Museum and all these places and we studied Egyptians and all this and that. But you got to study real people. You lived with real artists, real live artists, contemporary artists of right now. And I wish I could have done that. Hey, Maine is full. I think I can go maybe exaggerate a little, but I think Maine has the, probably besides New York City, the biggest artistic, the broadest artistic community of any state in the Union. Very specifically, over time, from the Native Americans to the Thomas Hart to Frederic Church and those guys right on up through in the Monhegans and all the different art camps around. It's pretty amazing. And they all were kind of east coast, Philadelphia, New York, Boston School, coming here. So that's, I think that's real. A big Part of my teaching is not formal, but as being mentored and mentoring, the importance of passing that along.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it's not that you aren't a fan of education per se, just maybe not the formal structure of education that maybe we all think of when we think of going to school.

Eric Hopkins:

Oh, I love education. I love learning. Again, don't get me wrong there. It's just schools I don't like. And my. You know, I know there are a lot of great work in schools right now. Absolutely phenomenal. Great stuff.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you also took some of these classes yourself. From what I understand, you took classes in geology and botany and other things that informed your art.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah, science at Brown. I took Brown University courses when I was at risd. And yeah. So I think it's. I think when you cram a poor little kid into a classroom when they don't want to be there, that's kind of a more negative aspect. And. But I'm not anti school, Anti education at all, but just has to be appropriate. You know, some people learn one way and some people learn other ways. And I think we need to acknowledge all of that. How important. There so many different ways of learning and doing. And your favorite color is blue. Mine's red.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, actually, red is an equally favorite color of mine. Blue was my favorite color for probably the first 32 years of my life, and I never really cared for red.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And then all of a sudden, I really enjoyed red. So it's interesting also that things can shift that way.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah, yeah. A lot of times kids will come in. I did a gallery talk. What's your favorite color? They expect blue. I wear blue jeans and blue shirts a lot of times. And red. And they get it. It's like, I don't want to be typecast with anything. I like green. I like, you know, all my full spec. I'm a full spectrum guy. I like them all.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well. And in fact, before we went on the air, you said, I don't want to be known as a painter.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm an artist.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So I don't want to be constricted because I want to be able to use paint, but also words.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And anything that I would like to use to be an artist.

Eric Hopkins:

Don't want to be constrained. Yeah. So that's pretty important. And also to acknowledge there are some people that love to have assignments and to be doing this. This. This late deadlines and all that. So

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

you have three children, one of whom has passed away now, and two stepchildren.

Eric Hopkins:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

least one of them Is an engineer. You haven't really talked about the other ones.

Emma Wilson:

No.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Was there any, is there any artistic.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah. My daughter Eva is living here in Portland right now and she's. She's a musician, drama artist, independent cuss like her old dad at the same time and wants to get more in the medical field some. She went to Alfred University in Syracuse. In Syracuse. She was in communication and rhetorical studies and she had a part time job, temp agency job with a health company, insurance company. And she was calling up people, bugging people at their meal times about their health care. And I said, what's that like? She said, well, you know, sometimes you get some. Today I had two really, really tough ones. And she said, but I let them, let them rant. I probably took a little longer than it was supposed to, but they left happy. And I said, you know, I think that rhetorical studies helped. So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So maybe art isn't just the visual. Maybe there's also art in conversation.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah, art and living. I think that's the big thing. Every, you know, they talk about stem, science, technology, engineering, math. I throw an A in there, go from STEM to steam, Science, technology, art, engineering and math. And the same thing with the, you know, the three R's. Read and write and arithmetic. The first one, the first R begins with A and it's arts. So that's how I, I'm going for the four arts, four Rs.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Your son passed away three years ago, right? So that's not that long.

Eric Hopkins:

No, it's. It was pretty, pretty tough. He was, he was independent too. Very. We're very connected right now. But he was, had been painting lobster buoys in a small confined area with nasty paints. Been drinking and driving his truck fast and drove off the road and rolled and died and basically died doing what he loved doing. And I was living on Mount Desert at the time. And my former wife called from north, this was on North Haven. And she called and said he'd been in an accident. Didn't know any details, but I sat there in front of my fireplace and I just got this download. I wouldn't call it a voice, but it was a message. Your daredevil child is a grown up angel tonight. And I knew, I just knew he'd gone and left this body and this planet as such. And I've been connected with him ever since. We were always connected. And he was a chip off the old block for sure. And I write a lot. And so I was. One day, a couple months later I was writing and I said, geez, kind of addressing him in the writing and said, geez, I'd like to. I've been doing all this writing stuff for five decades. Damn, the decades are going by fast, you know, and you only. Only were there for two of them. Got any bright ideas on how I can organize this writing and do a book or something like that? Hey, Ev, I'd like to dedicate it to you. Boom, Bam. Yeah, dad, right? Dead. Okay. It to you, to me. Dedicated to me. Like I'm dead. Hey, I'm not dead. I'm right here with you. Can you feel the goosebumps? You know I'm right here, right? So go do this, go do that. It's just, you know, I didn't get to be a dad before I left. He doesn't call it dad, doesn't like that. Left is. What is the more appropriate terminology for the others. And so he said, go do this stuff. I didn't get to be a dad. But I'll tell you what, I'll dad you. Dadding is a verb. So I've had that sense of some guidance, some. Some subtle, some blatant, and got the message there. The levers and the lefters. He left. He was a lever. He left the planet. And we're the lefters. We're left here. And so there's that aspect. And my father died in 79. And in the show, there's some fish paintings that come back after he died and kind of tying in a lot of these different aspects. He. He was. I was doing these blown glass fish, painted fish, different things. And he was kind of out of it on his deathbed and checking me out before he checked out. And I told him I was doing this blown glass fish and stuff and shells. He said, you know, I got you going on that. And he had a party, fishing boat. I went fishing with him, caught my first fish, codfish, and kind of take it home show. My mother all puffed up, proud, and it was just old, dead, gray fish. She'd seen a lot of them. And so I was kind of disappointed that she wasn't more enthusiastic. So I painted right on the fish with my poster paints. And after a while, a few days, she said, you gotta throw that away. It stinks. My art stinks. Come on, Mom. So I painted fish on paper. And he told me that story. I'd totally forgotten about it. He went and died. And I went back to Providence where I was living, and did all these lobster buoy paint, fish images on paper and then brought them back to life with color. And so that's kind of a continuity, a sense of life and death. And it's all part of it. It's all part of the deal. And I think you asked me a question that I got off on a tangent with no. Can you believe it?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think. No, never. I think you answered the question.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The continuity that you're working with right now. Actually, we're fortunate because you've agreed to do a show with the Portland Art Gallery and the new expansion into our bigger space. This is going to take place between April, I believe it's opening April 7th and into the beginning of May. It's a big deal for us.

Eric Hopkins:

Yeah, big deal for me, too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and I wondered about that. Yeah, this is, I mean, you brought in this beautiful piece that is hanging right now in the conference room of 75 Market Street Bank Media. It's like a three dimensional piece and I don't think I've ever seen a piece quite like it the way that you've done the kind of land, skyscape. It's really been a pleasure to spend time with you. Today we've been speaking with Eric Hopkins, who is really nationally and internationally known as an artist of many different sorts and native of North Haven and Rockland and really proud to have you be a fellow member of the great state of Maine. And thank you for coming in and talking to me today.

Eric Hopkins:

Well, thank you. It's great being here and I could go on and you can go on and we will. We'll continue.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, maybe we'll have you come back again another day.

Eric Hopkins:

Well, and I just like to say to everyone, look inside. Reflect what's inside and what's outside as well. Keep the balance, trust, don't rust, love.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's really fun to have people in the studio with me who I just, I just like as human beings and who are also my friends, but also I know them to be pretty High quality community movers and shakers. And I think this individual, you will listen to her and you'll understand why I feel so strongly about her. This is Emma Wilson. She is a managing director of Art Collector Maine and also a fellow Yarmouthian. I don't know that that's actually a word, but citizen of yarn. Of course it is. Thanks for coming in, Emma.

Emma Wilson:

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, Emma, you and I have known each other for quite a while, and I've always been interested in your background and how you came to be doing the work that you're doing with Art Collector Main. Because you've done a lot of other things, social work, you've worked within the psychiatric field, you. You've moved around a lot as a military spouse. Walk me through the process of how it is that you came to be the managing director at Art Collector Main.

Emma Wilson:

That's a great question. So I think that the. So where do I start? My journey, as you referenced, definitely starting in the social work field and then moving around the country quite a bit through a period of time for over the course of 12 years. And when living in almost every part of the region and really always valuing my work with kids and with youth and children and their families. But then when I was living in the south, in the Bible Belt, I got sort of reconnected with the arts in a way that was very important to me, was going back into the work field after having three young children and being with them. And the arts were just always a place where it felt safe. I felt comfortable. I felt like there were people that were interested in having dialogue about things that were relevant and meaningful in their life that I agreed with or disagreed with, it didn't matter. And actually have family members who are artists and living, supporting artists. So I came to Maine and became very involved with the Portland Museum of Art, worked there, was part of their docent program, and it felt really good, but then was starting to miss the teenage population and sort of. Then it was offered an opportunity to do development work with Wayfinder Schools, which is a wonderful program that works with teen parents and kids at really high risk of not completing high school. So I found a lot of pleasure and satisfaction with working with them and also became more and more involved with the broader community of donors at that time. And just through the experience and being In Maine since 2007, everybody's connected and it just constantly amazes me how that happens. And through having a conversation with Kevin Thomas, became aware of an opportunity around returning to work within the arts. But also be able to continue to work with. Making furthering connections and supporting the arts felt like a really good opportunity and a good fit in that moment in time. So that happened last August. And so that's where I am.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Emma, you're from New Jersey originally.

Emma Wilson:

I am Jersey girl.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You went to college in New York State. Your education was in social work. Why did you decide to do that?

Emma Wilson:

So I went to BU for social work. I had. My undergrad degree was in sociology. Certainly relationships and connections were always, you know, connecting with people were always interesting to me how people, you know, think work together. Social work was a more interesting field for me because to me, it was all about systems working together and sort of strengthening the individual. And so how those strengths, how those systems work together was more in line with the way that I seemed to practice. And so that's how I decided to go to social work school and then from there worked in a psychiatric community and in the education systems as well. So that was why. That was why.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you started your education in New York State doing sociology as an undergraduate, and that worked its way into a desire to do some work in the social work field. It's not an easy field.

Emma Wilson:

No, it's not. There's a lot of challenges that are prevalent in our society still and that were there then, and so. But I really am drawn to trying to help when I can try to become civically engaged and really wanting to participate and not just watch it happening around me, but wanting to participate. So that is definitely what compelled me, I think, to stay with it. People are amazing. They have amazing stories. They're just so. It's just an honor and a privilege when you get to know somebody's person, you know, so they know their life. So that was.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Was there anything in your family that any sort of. You said you have artists in your family.

Emma Wilson:

I have artists in my family. So, yeah, I come from the most dysfunctional family in the universe. But, no, I definitely have. And you can leave that on the tape. We all know it. So, no, it's not the most dysfunctional, but we definitely. I had an interesting upbringing. I'm one of four girls. My parents split when I was in third grade. They finally divorced when I was in ninth. There was a lot of challenges that we encountered during that time period. So I think that. That certainly there were people in my life that were very helpful. It wasn't formal as a therapist or whatever it might be, but it was a youth group or a teacher or some adults in my life that were making sure, that I knew that I was cared about and my parents, of course, as well, to the best of their ability. But I think that certainly influenced me, wanting to be able to be an adult in another person's life, to be able to show them that they care about them.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's interesting, as I asked that question, I was thinking she's going to say, like, all my siblings were social workers. I've never had anybody say, I have the most dysfunctional family in the world.

Emma Wilson:

That's a strong statement. I shouldn't retract that. But no, my sisters and I, interestingly, one's an artist, one's a lawyer, one's a journalist and a social worker. So it's just we're an interesting combination.

Eric Hopkins:

So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, well. And actually I think the fact that you can say that we're dysfunctional, but you seem to still have a lot of love for them and I know that you're very close to them.

Emma Wilson:

Oh, absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So I like the fact that it doesn't have to stand as being negative and rooted in some sort of dysfunction.

Emma Wilson:

It evolves. It doesn't. And we all have, you know, I always, I've said it already once today, but, you know, we all have these stories and I think that in order to embrace it and the more that I try to push away from my story and who, the further away I became from who I am. And it just, I don't think in the end that that's necessarily the way that I'm the most healthy, you know, where I'm my best. So I think that really embracing it, understanding it, laughing about it with my family, you know, crying about it, whatever it might be that we need to do to sort of process and go through. And now our parents are aging, you know, we're going through this whole next step and just how we, how we work through that process together is really important. So my sisters are absolutely the closest people in my life. There's no way that, you know, your siblings are. Have the most closely shared experience. And I just only hope that my kids feel the same way about each other at some point if they don't already. So we'll see.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I love the fact that when you were in Georgia, you found your group, which I think is really important for all of us to gravitate towards kind of like minded individuals who make us feel connected. And it's not a judgment on other people who aren't like minded. It's more like, how do I thrive in this world? And for you, the group was People in the arts.

Emma Wilson:

It was definitely people in the arts. And then also closest friends were definitely the political science instructor or director for the local university. You know, just a lot of people that were. Where we lived in Georgia was very much subdivisions and cul de sacs and whatnot and pools. You know, a lot of activity centered around pools for the kids, you know, in those neighborhoods. And so you learned. You know, I was probably most aware of what was going on in the world at that time. I mean, granted, I had a husband in the military. We were at war. It was, you know, there was a lot to be paying attention to and a lot to be worried about. I will say that even if I didn't agree politically with 80% of my neighbors, I also felt extremely cared for, especially when my husband at that time was deployed and I had these three children, and they were. And it was petrified for all of us. But there was a care and condition. And even though there's a part of me that completely has a lot of issues around the military, to drive onto the base at that time was the most comforting place that I could possibly be. So, you know, it's just ironic, but it's also so. But the other part of it, my head part, I mean, that really sort of took care of my heart, my kids part, but my head part needed to be connecting with people that I could have conversations with. And that's where the work really came into play with the. With the arts. And so I needed that outlet.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you worked at the Portland Museum part, and then you found yourself taking a bit of a right turn and working with the Wayfinder School, which has evolved from the community schools, which was up on the coast and now is in New Gloucester.

Emma Wilson:

Right? Well, it was. The community schools was in Camden and Opportunity Farm was in New Gloucester, and they merged and became the community schools at Opportunity Farm and Camden and then rebranded to Wayfinder schools with two different campuses.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So tell me about that work. Tell me about the group that you are serving.

Emma Wilson:

Yeah, so the group. So there's two schools within Wayfinder. There's a Passage or two programs, Passages program, which works with teen parents throughout the state. They're involved in almost every county of the state, and that's where teachers deliver the school to the students. There's so many barriers to teen parents being able to complete school. They can't take their babies on the school bus. They're ostracized for so many different reasons. And it's hard. So this way, it's like homeschooling. Essentially, but really, to be able to propel these young parents, to be able to be high school graduates is such a significant marker for their future. So we really tried hard. When I was working there, the teachers just worked so hard with their students. The residential program, there's a campus in Camden, and there's a campus in New Gloucester where it was Opportunity Farm free years. And they work with students that are residential. So the kids live there and are cared for by adults and are really expected to engage in conversation and in relationships and that being the tool to help them heal and to be able to help them to ultimately graduate. So. And there's a huge sort of hands on, experiential component to the curriculum. And they also are very much met where their individual needs are in terms of academics. Because it's a small program, the teachers are able to really meet with them where they need to be, and with that they're able to learn. So it's amazing when you reduce those barriers, how that happens. So, yeah, so it's really. It's a wonderful program. And Joseph Huff Nagel runs the residential program, and Martha Kemp runs the Passages program. And they just. They just work so hard. So my hat goes off to them. And I was offered an opportunity to come in. And so a friend of mine, Patsy, was working there as a development director at the time. And then she had then left and I stayed on.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And then we were lucky enough to bring you into our fold here at 75 Market street with art collector Main. And you've been working with the Portland Art Gallery and the gallery at the grand down in Kennebunk. So you're back in the arts.

Emma Wilson:

I'm back in the arts.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you're watching Andrea King from Aristotel give a talk at Maine Live last fall. And she was discussing something that you really connected with.

Emma Wilson:

Yeah, yeah, she was. I mean, she definitely was discussing body image and the issue around here. I just loved the idea. I had no preconceived notions around Andrea. I had never met her, I had never seen her. I just didn't really know much about her business. But here was this feminist businesswoman, you know, talking about having this fine lingerie business, but also just really supporting this conversation about reducing, you know, the negative connotations around body image and just what that means. And she spoke about. It was very personal for me in the sense that growing up, it was very much, you could be beautiful if that was always the line and it was always around body image. It was always around presentation. And it was not Nice. It was really not something that you say to a child or that you even feel for a child, I think. And so. And then she spoke about her own children and that certainly resonated for me. I have a 16 year old, an 18 year old, I have a 14 year old son. The other two are daughters. And knowing that that was an issue, growing as they'd been growing up, that I wanted to make sure to pay attention to. And so sorry about that. My language has been very intentional with them as they've grown up because the language felt so hurtful to me growing up. So to hear her, to see her on the stage and just voice to that in a way that was kind of cool. Like, you know, it was a different angle. I just, I just loved it. And so was eager to follow up in conversation with her just as a person, but then also just to see if there was an opportunity for us to do something together through the galleries.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And that opportunity led to an event called Everybody is a Work of Art which included women walking around in their lovely lingerie in February.

Emma Wilson:

Exactly. In Maine. In Maine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Into your art gallery.

Emma Wilson:

Which is really great.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Which is really great. And in no small part because these were women who had a wide range of body shapes, wide range of ages. They didn't need to be the traditionally sized women. They were all beautiful because they were all fitted with the absolute right lingerie for them. And they all went out there and were completely self confident.

Emma Wilson:

Yeah. Which was really great to see. And so much of Andrea's work is around that, you know, it was about celebrating all ages, all shapes, all sizes, and by celebrating what makes you feel good for yourself and to increase that self confidence. So I think that the fashion show piece of it came together in such a really wonderful way, an authentic way, just because it just supported her brand of what she, you know, really wants her business to be. And also just supports the idea that Everybody is a work of art and that it's is so important for us all to know and believe. So yeah, there was a pregnant woman and people of all. And it was just a lot of fun. But it also had a. Art to me is such an important platform that we have available to us to have conversations about anything that's relevant in our lives. And so we intentionally set up the gallery with different works of art that represented human form and they were in all shapes, sizes and ages in those sculptures as well. And that sort of set the stage. We didn't need to be in the foreground at that point. We were somewhat in the background. But the gallery to be able to use as a forum for this type of conversation or this type of programming is really where I would love to see the direction to continue to grow. Anytime we can get people in the gallery that, you know, we want that, obviously we're a business, we want to support our artists through our business. But this is another piece of having a space in Portland that can be made available for really important community dialogue.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, yeah, there's been a lot of conversation lately around body image in advertising and in the media. There was a big dove campaign that tried to bring in normal or average sized women. And there's been a lot of things about fat shaming and thin shaming and there's a lot of stuff going on in social media. And I think it's great because it generates conversation. But at the same time I wonder if the conversation is entirely productive.

Emma Wilson:

You hope so. Or does it just draw more attention to those things and so therefore what the next step might be. I asked my daughter, actually the 16 year old daughter, in sort of anticipation of this conversation and also along the way because they knew I was planning the event with Andrea. And she said social media is definitely, I mean, it used to be magazines and whatnot, but social media is such the area where it hurts. She's talked about in Instagram how girls are watching what models the boys are following and vice versa. And it's not just about the girls worrying about themselves. It's also these boys who are drinking protein powders and trying to bulk themselves up and become more masculine and more the ideal of whatever the girls are paying attention to in the Instagram. And so I don't know what the answer is except to continue to have that dialogue or to continue to open those doors or to continue having people living and people doing the work like Andrea's been doing, but it's important. Not sure if I have more to say about that. Yeah, social media is just a big different animal than.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But no, it is. And it's an interesting conundrum because I think we have made some strides forward. I believe Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue has a size 16 model on one of

Emma Wilson:

the covers and now Barbie does too. Right?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And Barbie has changed her shape. And I think that you're also. And I believe that people who are, who have been traditionally called plus size models are now asking that they just be called models. So I think that there is some, there is some movement in that direction, but it's hard because there is still a lot out there that is basically Very thin women who are wearing clothes in a way that most of the rest of us can't pull off. I wonder about this conversation, about how we move this forward, because sometimes when you draw too much attention to it, it becomes the thing that attracts people rather than educates.

Emma Wilson:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I don't have any answers. That's why I'm kind of talking out

Emma Wilson:

loud with you about this. Yeah, yeah. And I'm realizing I don't really have that answer either, except for I think that the dialogue is truly important and it is refreshing that it's become more of a forefront. But then you wonder if attitudes really, really changed. I mean, I could segue into something that's totally different in terms of the political world right now. But, you know, I think that it's just really. Have the attitudes really fundamentally changed. I don't know. I don't know. But if we continue to work with our kids to raise, you know, confident, not expected to have be perfect people, then perhaps that's the biggest. The biggest step in the direction of it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I think the art world is actually the perfect place to be having this conversation because artists focus on the things that they feel compelled to focus on. And some of them do it because it's what will sell, but some of them really do it because of their interest in whatever that media is. So I'm thinking about Eric Hopkins and the pieces he's been doing lately, which are kind of three dimensional pieces. And I know he's coming to the art gallery.

Emma Wilson:

He's going to be coming April 1st or April. April 7th is the opening. So we're excited.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, yeah, that's. And I. So yes, anybody who's an Eric Hopkins fan, I definitely am. You should show up for that art gallery opening. And also I think to be able to see that there's such a broad variety. You can love photography as an art, you can love music as an art, you can love the visual arts. And to know that those are reflecting something inside of the people who are creating them and that there is such a rainbow of possibilities that exist within humans and also the forms that humans themselves take.

Emma Wilson:

I also think that ironically, art is a blank screen, and so it's what you project onto it. So you could be projecting onto a sculpture of a human form, or it could be an Eric Hopkins piece or whatever it might be, but it is something that you can use as a tool or a way of understanding yourself better or engage in conversation with other people about a topic. And certainly art has definitely, you know, through the Centuries it has communicated what the ideal human form has been and it's changed and it's evolved and at different times. But I do fundamentally believe that art has always been able to give us a form or a platform to have conversations and to be able to move forward.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, one of the best things about my job in this working with 75 Market Street Love Maine Radio, Maine Magazine, is actually my exposure to art and having been a purely science worker person for so many years, to be there's a direct link.

Emma Wilson:

Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and this is why I love your story because I think we are learning more and more that, you know, the crop, there's crossover, the brain pathways, they don't. It's not left brain, right brain. There are things that jump back and forth between the hemispheres and that you can start out being a social work major or social work master's student at Boston University, as you did, and then jump to fast forward to the current day and be the manager for our collector Maine and it all still makes sense. Yep, there is a path and to use really whatever form you have. If you are interested in body image and you're interesting, interested in making sure you have healthy young people, then let's show them that we can have an art show where women of all different sizes and maybe someday men, we just didn't happen to have the ones who

Emma Wilson:

are volunteering, although Chris would have been able to help us with that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, our MC Chris cast, I'm sure, would have jumped in there to be a male model.

Emma Wilson:

Once Chris was on board as being the emcee, he just really felt as though the event was going to pull together and have its best place. I think that that whole idea around perfection is something that we have so many expectations out of our kids. And I love the community in which I live of Yarmouth. I love the school district. I have nothing but respect. I think the teachers understand the pressure that our kids are under better than almost anybody because they're, you know, we get so proud of our, you know, scores on U.S. news World Report, but that's on the shoulders of our kids and it just drives me crazy. But I think that, you know, to let them know, just, you know, stay awake to life, just don't have to be perfect all the time. That that's really, really important for them to know and believe and to help them foster that self confidence and they're going to look in the mirror and they're going to be focused on different things. We all are. We're human. But that doesn't mean that they need to feel any less loved. And so that's that's key.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, from your lips to their ears. And actually I'll broaden that out not just to the children, but to know that none of us need to be perfect because there really isn't any standard of perfection that any of us will ever achieve. So I think the people listening to this will understand why it is that we love you so much, Emma.

Emma Wilson:

Feelings mutual.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I would like to know where they can talk to you or learn more more about our collector Maine Absolutely.

Emma Wilson:

So my email is ewilsonrcollectormain.com and our number there is 956-7105@ the@ the Portland Art Gallery, so or we are at 154 Middle street and we're getting ready to expand. So come on in and visit. Or if you're in Kenny Bunk we are right connected to the Grand Hotel.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So excellent. We've been speaking with Emma Wilson, who is the Managing director of Art Collector Main and who spends a significant amount of time around the Portland Art Gallery and Gallery at the Grand. So stop on in, connect with her and enjoy some art and we'll be continuing to talk to you in the future. Thanks for coming in today.

Emma Wilson:

Thank you for having me. It's wonderful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have been listening to Love Maine radio show number 237, Life as Art. Our guests have included Air Eric Hopkins and Emma Wilson. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Love Maine Radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Bellio. I hope that you have enjoyed our Life as Art show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you you have a bountiful life.

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