Life on the Spectrum #246

Derek Volk:

We can water this down any way you want when you're 10, there's nothing good about being different. It's all about being the same and conforming and being like everybody else. And high school gets a little better, but not much. But when you get into your 20s, everybody is kind of tired of the same old person that's just like everybody else. And if you're a little quirky, you're actually more interesting to people.

Dylan Volk:

It took me a long time to be able to correctly read people and read people's intentions and know what to look out for for whether to trust somebody or not.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you're listening to Love Maine Radio show number 240, Life on the Spectrum, airing for the first time on Sunday, June 5, 2016. What is it like to understand life in a way that doesn't always match up with others around you? Children and adults on the Autism spectrum live this reality every day. Today we speak with the Vogk family, including Derek Dylan and Amy Vogt. Their experience is detailed in Derek Volk's well regarded book, Chasing the A Dad's Life Raising a Son on the Spectrum. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It is my great pleasure to have with me in the studio today Derek and Amy Volk. Derek is the author of the internationally acclaimed Amazon bestseller Chasing the A Dad's Life Raising a Son on the Spectrum. Derek is a Maine businessman, supporter of autism awareness, volunteer and philanthropist, who along with his family, was recently named the 2015 Spurwink Humanitarian of the Year. He is currently the president and co owner of Vogue Packaging Corporation. And he also has his own radio show which I will ask him about in not too long a time. Here we also have with him Amy Vogt, his wife, the state senator for District 30, which includes most of Buxton, most of Scarborough and all of Gorham. Prior to being elected to the Senate, she served two terms in the main house as the Representative for House District 127, coastal Scarborough. Derek and Amy live in Scarborough and they have four children. Thanks for coming in today.

Amy Volk:

Thank you for having us.

Derek Volk:

Thanks a lot.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We are very lucky to have you because you are both so busy. You have the business, you have the governmental stuff, you're involved in all kinds of community outreach activities. You have this book that you've been talking about. I mean, you have four children. I don't know how you do it all. It's kind of amazing, really, the energy that you have.

Amy Volk:

It's never dull.

Derek Volk:

Yeah, we're never lacking for something to do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you've been together for how many years now?

Derek Volk:

31.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you've lived more of your lives together now than separately?

Derek Volk:

Oh, yeah, yeah, we passed that a while ago.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So this is quite an adventure for you, this life that you've created.

Amy Volk:

Yeah, absolutely.

Derek Volk:

Yeah, it's exciting. There's a lot going on.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you, Derek, you, in addition to doing Vogue Packaging Corporation, which is a third generation family owned corrugated box manufacturer in Biddeford, you are involved in the main Business Leadership Network. And this is an organization that focuses on connecting employers with potential employees who have disabilities. You have a lot of interesting social interests that go outside of the work that you do in your company.

Derek Volk:

Yeah, actually, ironically, I just spent about an hour on the phone with them yesterday trying to help restructure the direction that they're going. But the Business Leadership Network is, along with some other organizations here in Maine, are trying really hard to help young adults with disabilities get jobs. There's a huge amount, especially of people on the autism spectrum entering the workforce. So we all, as citizens, as business, business owners need to be aware of that and figure out how we're going to get these people employed. Because if we don't, then we're all going to be paying for them.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. You know, that is a really good point. One of the things that I was talking to Dylan about was the fact that you went through this diagnosis of the month club thing back in the 90s, because at that point, people didn't have as much of an awareness about Asperger's on the autism spectrum. But now we have awareness, and we have people who have grown up who have these issues.

Amy Volk:

But we're really not at the point yet where a lot of employers. There are some obvious employers that embrace the real techie people on the autism spectrum that, you know, are just happy to sit behind a computer and code all day long. But that's not all. That's sort of a stereotype. That's definitely not our kid, and that's definitely not everybody on the autism spectrum, as well as a lot of other people that have different types of disabilities. One of the cool things that Derek has done is really be a model employer in terms of employing people with disabilities. And honestly, every employer in Maine should be that way because we have such a tight workforce. But they employ a person who's blind, a person who's legally deaf, one or two people on the autism spectrum, one out in the plant and one in the office. And they, you know, some of them definitely do require some accommodations, but these are not expensive accommodations. These are more things like maybe not always holding them to the same accountability standards as everybody else is held to. Not that they get a pass on everything, but there just needs to be sort of more of an understanding that the project that you've given them might. They might need more instructions on how to complete it properly than another person, or maybe they need a little bit more time. But at the end of the day, it's about doing the right thing and giving these people the dignity of earning their own way in life because they don't want to be sitting home on the couch.

Derek Volk:

Yeah. Like the woman, the young woman that works for us in our office, she gets overwhelmed. If she's our executive assistant is her official title, and if everybody. If myself and my CFO and my uncle are all throwing projects at her, that's overwhelming. So after working in the office for a little while, we realized we need one person that manages her schedule. If we have a project for her, we bring it to our human resources manager, and then she manages. Helps her manage this woman's time so that she doesn't get overwhelmed, because multitasking is really difficult, and she wants to please everybody. So she ends up doing a bunch of projects not well, instead of doing Each project in the time frame that it's needed. So it's things like that. And the deaf woman, really, the only accommodation we've had to make for her is every day someone is basically assigned to her. It's usually the same woman every day, but unless she's on vacation. So that if the fire alarm goes off, somebody tells sue, hey, by the way, the place is on fire, because she may not hear the fire alarm. And so that's a pretty minor accommodation.

Amy Volk:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, do you think that people are sometimes so overwhelmed by, I don't know, a diagnosis that they can't even see a place of entry for someone who might have different needs? They feel like this is such a big deal. I just can't. I can't do it.

Derek Volk:

Yeah, I think that is part of the problem. And the other part of the problem is, especially for people on the autism spectrum, not Dylan, because Dylan, our son, is very outgoing. He's really good at getting jobs. Not so good at keeping jobs, but really good at getting jobs. And he can fake normal for 15 to 20 minutes in a job interview and tell people what they want to hear, and he can get the job. But a lot of the people on the autism spectrum are socially awkward. And the fact is that employers, human resource managers, small business owners, they're people. And if they have two people with the same skills that come in for a job and they have to decide which one they're going to hire, and one of them is socially awkward, and one of them you can see yourself going out and having a beer with on a Friday night, the fact is they're going to hire the person they're more comfortable with. And we all, as business owners in Maine and employers, need to kind of open our eyes up to, you know, this isn't necessarily about who we might want to have a beer with on a Friday night, it's who might do the job. And they say that in most workplaces, 80% of the work, 80% of the day is spent social and 20% is spent actually working. And with someone on the spectrum, it's usually the opposite. So we should be actually wanting to hire more people on the spectrum because they. Because they're not going to be hanging around the water cooler, chit chatting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's a good point. I think, about also the fact that if we're always around people who are exactly the way that we are, then we probably don't expand who we are in any large way. And it's usually about hanging around people that aren't exactly like us, that we, I don't know, broaden our horizons somewhat.

Amy Volk:

Yeah. And I think that people are aware of that somewhat more obviously, racially or culturally, and they don't really remember that. That's also true for people with disabilities.

Derek Volk:

And that actually reminds me of a question when Dylan and I were in Cleveland at an autism conference, speaking in Cleveland, and a woman asked if it gets easier. She has a 10 year old. She had a 10 year old. And she asked if it gets easier to make friends as they get older. And I kind of held my breath because I thought, oh my goodness, if Dylan tells her that it doesn't get easier, she's going to leave here with no hope. And knowing Dylan, I knew that he wasn't going to tell her what she wanted to hear just to make her feel better, because he's just not wired that way. And so I kind of held my breath and thought, oh my goodness, what's going to come? What is he going to say? And it was one of the best answers that he gave in all the conferences we've been to. And what he said is, look, we can water this down any way you want. When you're 10, there's nothing good about being different. It's all about being the same and conforming and being like everybody else. And high school gets a little better, but not much. But when you get into your 20s, everybody's kind of tired of the same old person that's just like everybody else. And if you're a little quirky, you're actually more interesting to people. And so tell them to hang in there because it. And he like reached out to the kid through the mom and said, tell him to hang in there because it will get easier. And I was like, phew, you know, thank you. He gave her an honest response, but also some hope. And Dylan's. When Dylan speaks, when we do our presentations and we've been speaking all around the country, he's such an inspiration because they hear what we went through and then they see this kid, this young man on stage and they're like, I'm not making the connection. How is everything that you dad just said ended up with this kid who's so dynamic because he's a tremendous speaker and just holds nothing back. He tells people exactly what he went through and what he still goes through. And like I, I told Amy, I texted Amy from Richmond, Virginia back a few months ago, and I said, now I know how Ringo Starr felt because he's the rock star at all these events we go to.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As parents, I'm not sure if this is the way that you felt when Dylan got to be 18, but there is this sense within our culture that when someone turns 18. Okay, great. Now you're done. And I think most people. Right. I know you're laughing because I have children who are both over the age of 18, and I don't actually think that you really are done, But I'm guessing that with Dylan, you really aren't done. Yeah, there's really always going to be some sort of connection that you will have with him that probably is a

Amy Volk:

little different than most likely. And I think that in our minds, even though he'll be 25 this summer, he's sort of developmentally only just now reaching 18. So, you know, when he turned 18 was actually a very scary day in our lives because the law doesn't necessarily take into account when someone has a developmental disability. So, you know, we were really afraid that he was going to get into some serious trouble and be held accountable as an adult, and that was terrifying.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So I'm thinking about my own brother, who. My parents have 10 children, and they're all grown now. My own, one of my brothers went through a time where he didn't have any good reason for being in trouble with the law, but he just was. And it was really hard on my parents. It was really difficult to go through the court system and everything that is a part of. I think his issue was an episode of shoplifting, which I believe also was something that Dylan did. And I just. I wonder, as his parents, how if he does it once, then you can say, okay, he did it once. But I know that he was actually in trouble with the law on three separate occasions for three really different reasons. What was that like to go through that?

Derek Volk:

Well, it's been more than three occasions, unfortunately. But he, you know, a couple of times we didn't even find out, like, when he got arrested for shoplifting. We didn't even know he. Until he was out of jail. He had spent a couple days in jail, and then we found out afterwards. And so he. He went through that kind of on his own and.

Amy Volk:

Because he was living in Florida.

Derek Volk:

Yeah, he was living in Florida at the time. But it's terrifying. I mean, when. And I tell a story about seeing Dylan come out in this orange jumpsuit, and it's just. It's an awful, awful feeling. And when, you know that, like, Amy said that they're treating him like every other. Every other person in jail when developmentally, he really doesn't even A lot of times he didn't even really understand what he did wrong. It's, it's really difficult. And the shoplifting, I, he actually, we spoke about, he spoke about that when we were at one of the conferences. And I had never even heard the story. Every time I'm with him, I learn more about him. And he told me that he, you know, some of his friends had done some shoplifting and he was down in Florida and he thought, well, you know, maybe I'll try it. And he said, I tried here and there and God, seemed pretty easy. And then he said, I got cocky and I, and I filled like, you know, my whole backpack full of stuff. And he just went, you know, went a little overboard and of course he got arrested for it. So it's, it's a, it's a very trying experience. And the court system doesn't cut any slack for people with, with disabilities. But I think there's, there is some progress being made. There are some organizations out there. There's an organization right here in Maine called asset. I forget exactly what it stands for, but they were on my radio show, but I forget what it stands for. And they're actually, their mission is to go to police stations and law offices and judges and explain autism to them so that they have a better understanding. So there's, it's starting, but it's a slow process.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, since you brought up your radio show, tell us a little bit about that.

Derek Volk:

I have a radio show on WLOB on Saturday mornings, 13:10am and 100.5 FM. It's called the Derek Volk Show. And it's basically, it started out as a business show and now it's basically whoever I find interesting. So between going around the country with this book and all the people that I meet through Amy's legislative work, if I meet someone, I just say, hey, you should come on my radio show and talk about that. Because it sounds interesting and I think people would like to hear more about it. And my show was two hours, but because of all the work that this book has been, I actually backed the show up to one hour and they gave Dylan the other hour. So 8 o' clock on Saturday mornings on WLOB, you can hear Riding with Dylon, which is fantastic. I have to be honest, it's much better than my show. And it is probably the only show maybe in the country, the only talk radio show that's from a millennial's perspective. I mean, a 24 year old with his own talk radio show is pretty Unique. Most of most talk radio shows are, you know, older men. And it's. He just does a great job. He talks about music and politics, and he has a segment called Dating with Dylon, which is sometimes a little edgy for nine o' clock in the morning,

Amy Volk:

but social media tips, very interesting.

Derek Volk:

Yes. Social media tips. He does a great job. Yeah. So we're really proud of it. You can catch that@ridingwithdylon.com

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I like the fact that the two of you didn't feel the need to kind of define what you were going to do with your lives or who you were going to be, that you continue to, if something seems interesting, have a radio show. You know, if you want to be a state senator, great, let's do that. You know, I mean, it seems like you go forward in a direction with some confidence and you get a lot out of it and you just keep moving forward. I don't think everybody does that.

Amy Volk:

I don't know. That's sort of. I mean, in some ways, though, you know, we're both living in the state that we grew up in, so, you know, that hasn't changed.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And

Amy Volk:

I guess we just feel as though, I think our faith somewhat informs us of, you know, the fact that in the end, things usually end up being okay. And, you know, that we both feel like God has a plan for our lives. And so if something presents itself as an opportunity and it seems like the right thing to do, then we take it and go with it.

Derek Volk:

When she came home and told me she was going to run for the legislature, I told her she was crazy. And I said, why would anybody want to do that? And she said, I really feel like I can make a difference. And I said, all right, well, let's do it. And then she said, shortly after that, she said, you know, if this isn't supposed to be, then doors will close and it won't work out. And if it is supposed to be, then God will open the doors and it'll show. I'll see that it's what I'm supposed to do. And God just kept opening doors one after another. And then she ended up running for Senate and winning that, and she's just done an amazing job and she's made a real difference in this state, so it all worked out.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I understand, Amy, that you have a strong interest in helping victims of human trafficking, which is a really tough subject, and a lot of people don't even want to touch that.

Amy Volk:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Why do you have an interest? Why is it important to you?

Amy Volk:

I Guess I have an interest in general in a lot of justice issues, which is odd since I'm, you know, most people would call me a conservative. I feel like I'm a moderate Republican. But, you know, I do have some conservative views as well. But I also feel like, again, from the faith perspective, that we're called to help people who can't help themselves. And so anyone who's caught in a web of human trafficking, including sex trafficking victims, they need to be someone that we have mercy on. And, you know, I have a real strong feeling about juveniles as well. And fortunately in Maine, we do a really good job with juveniles. But I'm starting to think about ways that we can think about particularly this population of people, again, that are developmentally disabled, you know, should they be held accountable to the same legal standards while they're still developing as their, you know, same aged peers? And I think that anyone, you know, any informed psychologist would tell you that they shouldn't. So, but that's not something that the legal system, the judicial system has really addressed yet. So it's actually work that I'm looking to forward to doing in the future. And then, I mean, the way that I got involved in sex trafficking was really just, it was a subject that I had been aware of. And then I read about it in the paper and, you know, it was in the Bangor Daily News in our Weekend Edition talking about how, you know, Maine really was behind the times compared to a lot of other states in addressing this issue. And I was a little surprised because I knew that sort of quietly, some legislation had passed with some language changes, and there was no fanfare about that. It was very, you know, done very quietly. And I think that's probably why, because there was the stigma attached to it. And I think that people thought that there would be a lack of understanding around, you know, what's the difference between prostitution and, you know, being a sex trafficking victim. And so that was done very, very quietly. And so I put my bill in feeling like, well, hey, the second largest newspaper had this, you know, on the front page of the Weekend Edition. So I'm sure it's something that everybody else is also aware of. And it turned out that, no, not so much. And that sort of really, really blew up. But the cool thing about it was that it sparked discussions all over the state about, okay, what is sex trafficking? Is it really happening in Maine? What's the difference between that and prostitution? You know, so how are we addressing it? And just people came out of the woodwork to say, you know, Hey, I was a victim or hey, I see this all the time as a prosecutor. And we've begun to understand there really is a huge difference and that we have a problem. Yes. Right here in Maine, not even just in Portland, Lewiston and Bangor. So I'm really honored in a way that I've sort of become the person that people look to to sponsor this legislation. Because, you know, when it comes right down to it, I'm not the one out in the streets doing this work with the victims or even working in the Attorney General's office or, or the District Attorney's office or the police station. But I've become a voice for those people and the way that they want the statute to change to address this in a better way in Maine. So it's pretty neat.

Derek Volk:

And right after your bill passed, there was a big bust right in Gorham, which is in her district. Just ironic, where there was in a residential, nice residential neighborhood. People had called the police and said, there are cars coming in and out and men going in and out at all hours of the night. And nobody paid any attention to it. And it ended up, it was a sex trafficking ring. And so, you know, roll back five years to when she said, I think I can make a difference. And there you go.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One question that I don't want to leave without asking is how is it that you are so willing to lay your life on the line here? You are so remarkably honest in your book Chasing the Rabbit, A Dad's Life, Raising a Son on the spectrum. I mean, you talk about how angry it made you. You talked about how you felt at times that you, that it actually impacted your marriage, that it got in between you and Amy. I mean, Derek, you just did not hold anything back. Or at least I don't think you did. If you did, then you told a lot still. So how. I mean, it seems like both of you are very willing to kind of get in the tussle.

Derek Volk:

Well, I'll tell you the truth is that as I wrote this book, I didn't think anyone was ever going to read it. I wrote it without telling Dylan. I didn't tell Dylan until the book was not all edited and everything, but I had finished everything I felt like I wanted to say. And then I called Dylan and I told him that I wrote this book about him. And I was pretty convinced. And Mariah, who actually I wrote, I did the whole book by audio and I emailed it to Mariah and she typed it for me, my 22 year old daughter. And I called her that morning. And I said, what do you think Dylan's gonna say? And she. She said, I don't think he's gonna let you do it. And I. So I thought he was gonna say, you know, there's no way you can tell everybody all this. So as I wrote the book, I just figured, what the heck? Just lay it out there, and it's probably just gonna end up sitting on my hard drive for the rest of my life anyway. And then when Dylan was. Was supportive of it, and I said, well, there's gonna be some things in here you're not gonna like. And he said, no, I'm all right with it. And then I said, you know, we may be able to even travel and do some speaking about the book. And he said, oh, I'd be great at that. And so he read the whole book and actually had one minor change. He basically let me go with the book exactly as it was, which is extremely. Nothing short of courageous, in my opinion, to expose yourself. And I have. When we go to conferences, people will pull me aside after we present, and they'll say, I can't believe how honest Dylan is about what you went through. And I can't believe how you say what you say right in front of him like that. And Dylan will tell you, he said, I'm an open book, and at this point, I have nothing to hold back. And. And it's just been an amazing experience I can't even describe. I could tell you story after story. I'm speaking at another library tomorrow, and I'm sure that there's going to be somebody there that needs to hear our story, that feels alone, that feels like they're the only ones going through this. That is a grandparent who doesn't understand why their kid is such a pain in the butt and thinks he just needs some discipline. And I've done over 50 speaking engagements now, and I have another several dozen planned. And I feel like every room I walk into, whether there's 10 people or 500 people, that God put that person in the room for a reason. And God put me in that room for a reason. And there's something I'm going to say that's going to reach them. And that everything we went through was because this book was supposed to be written. This was part of the wacky plan that God had for us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How can people find out about your book, Derek?

Derek Volk:

The easiest way is just go to our website, chasingtherabbit.org and if you go to chasingtherabbit.org, you can buy the book. Right. It'll bring you a link to Amazon, and it's on Kindle and Nook and Ibook and all those ebooks. And also on our website, there's a list of all the speaking engagements that we have coming up so you can see where we'll be presenting, as well as some video. And if you have a child that has autism and, or any disability and you have a sibling as well, I would recommend that you check out the video of Dylan and Mariah from the Southern Maine Autism Conference. They did a whole presentation about autism and the sibling relationship, and it's just fantastic. And I've talked to a lot of parents who have just told me how much hope it gave them because their kids are just at each other all the time. And to see that as they get older that the child, the neurotypical child, starts to understand the impact that growing up with a sibling with a disability has is really very, very inspirational to a lot of parents.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Amy, how can people find out about your legislative work?

Amy Volk:

I do have a website, amy4me.com and I'm on social media a lot. I'm on Twitter, Mom4, the number 4 Volks v o l k s. And I'm also on Facebook and Instagram, all that fun stuff. I even Snapchat. That's. I'm trying to keep that with just me. And the kids, though they finally all accepted me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I haven't. I haven't tried to get my kids to accept me yet. So I give you a lot of credit on that.

Amy Volk:

It was a stretch, a lot of begging. Ironically, the last one was Mariah, the one that's going to law school next year. And she was like, mom, that's the last place that I can be. You know, like my alone. Well, sorry.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I have really enjoyed. I want to be your friend. Well, it's nice that she has that. That desire. You both have that desire to have a close relationship. It's been a pleasure speaking with the two of you. This is Derek Volk, who is the author of the internationally acclaimed Amazon bestseller, Chasing the Rabbit. A Dad's Life Raising a Son on the spectrum. Derek is also the president and co owner of Volk Packaging Corporation and also with Amy Volk. She is the state senator for District 30. They live in Scarborough and have four children, including Dylan, who was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome when he was 8. I really encourage people to take some time to learn more about the Volk family and about the experiences that Amy and Derek and Dylan and their other children have had with Asperger's and I appreciate all the time that you have taken out in the world to help us all understand better.

Amy Volk:

Thank you, thank you. Thanks for having us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

with me today Dylan Vog, whose experience was detailed by his father in the book Chasing the A Dad's Life Raising a Son on the Spectrum. And Dylan, you get to be the subject of this book and it was an interesting read and I wondered, I wondered how you felt about being part of this.

Dylan Volk:

I didn't have any problem with it. I thought that it would lead to me doing a lot of talks to promote the book. That was my first thought and I knew I'd be good at that and I thought that that would be a really interesting way to get our story out there to help people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So from what I understand, for many years you were part of what your parents called the Diagnosis of the Month Club. That sounds kind of frustrating.

Dylan Volk:

Yeah, every doctor just decided to diagnose me with whatever they specialized in and

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

that that doesn't always for a long time and that doesn't always work all that well.

Dylan Volk:

No, no. I mean it fit a little bit of what was going on, but it didn't explain the whole story. You know,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

when I was reading your father's book, he spoke a lot about some of these great passions you had and not just the trouble that you experienced. You were very focused on some specific things, including cars. Cars for you was important. Is that something that continues to be important for you today?

Dylan Volk:

That is something I'm still interested in, but it's certainly not like it was then. I went through a couple years where that was all I ever wanted to talk about, think about.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And is that common for you, that you, you find something that you become passionate about and then you get really good at it for a number of years before or amount of time before moving on?

Dylan Volk:

Yeah, that's a trait of Asperger's. It's a one of the most common characteristics.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you were able to figure this out with your parents over time and graduate from Scarborough high school in 2010. Before that, you spent time in other educational settings, some of which maybe weren't the best fit for you. Tell me about that.

Dylan Volk:

Yeah, like which, which one in particular? There's many that fit that description. There was a boarding school, there was a private school where it was just basically, I don't think it would have fit many people's educational environment. I'm not even sure it would have fit up to like educational standards. Place got inspected, it was so filthy. And then there was a boarding school where it was like basically a boot camp for Asperger's where they would. It was all kids with Asperger's and I had to go do things like living in the woods, kind of like a wilderness oriented school.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Did you learn anything or get anything positive out of these experiences?

Dylan Volk:

Certain ones I did and certain ones were just complete flops. Had to just get out of there. Didn't really do much. That one in particular, the boot camp for kids with Asperger's, was helpful to an extent. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You currently are working on your YouTube channel, Dylon Comedy, and you've produced quite a lot of videos. You have a good sense of humor about, I think, yourself and your life and your diagnosis, but also about many other different types of things. Is that a normal outlet for people with Asperger's is comedy?

Dylan Volk:

No, it's definitely not. Definitely kind of goes against a lot of the. A lot of everything about Asperger's because it involves directly relating with people and reading people and interacting with people. So it's kind of the last thing one would expect somebody with Asperger's to be in or a field.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So why did you decide to be part of this?

Dylan Volk:

It's just always been making people laugh has always been the thing that I've been good at. And I noticed that I've always been good at that, always been better at that significantly than anybody else. And sometimes in life the best thing to do is to pursue what you're really, really good at rather than pursuing what Your number one choice would be. And so that's what I'm working on.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, describe your YouTube channel. Describe Dai Lung comedy and also riding with dialogue.

Dylan Volk:

It's a YouTube comedy channel. It's me doing comedic skits, like public pranks and kind of just funny little things. And it's all based on reality. It's all based on my real personality, my real life. Very little of it is even written or exaggerated that much. And then I also have some music videos, like song parodies. Like, my most viewed video is a Poker Face parody, lady guy, where it depicts my struggle as a heterosexual guy trying to make friends with gay guys. But I just want to be friends. But I really want to hang out with some cool gay guys. And so I'm trying to go out and I'm trying to meet gay guys, but just to be friends. And it shows how that can be kind of weird.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I watched that and it was really funny. And I also wondered if somebody.

Dylan Volk:

People.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It was a little bit kind of politically incorrect, I would say. Have you gotten that kind of response?

Dylan Volk:

Which parts?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Oh, just this. The stereotype of gay men being a certain way.

Dylan Volk:

Well, those are all. That's all me, though. That's all my personality. That's why it's. It's real. Because that's what I meant. Like, it's not really written, like all the things that I said. Like I said, I don't watch sports. I'd rather watch whatever's on the E. Like Fashion Police, you know. And then one of the gay guys says, you can't be straight. You went to see Kathy Griffin live. And both of those are true about me. So all I know is that they're true about me. I don't know if they're stereotypically true about anybody else, but they're just true about me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, like I did. I thought it was really funny, actually. I thought it was really. It was really clever.

Dylan Volk:

Yeah. Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So do you feel as if you yourself are ever stereotyped as someone who has Asperger's or someone who is on the spectrum?

Dylan Volk:

No, because most people don't know that I have it, so I don't really get that chance and.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay. Has that been a problem?

Dylan Volk:

Yeah. One of the things I talk about in my seminars when I go around and talk about the book is that it can be a struggle that a lot of people aren't aware of if you're somebody who comes off as high functioning. And basically most people just assume that you don't have anything, don't have any neurological diagnosis. So you have to meet these high expectations that you, that you aren't really. So it's kind of like you're always on.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What are some of the other things that you talk about in your seminar?

Dylan Volk:

I talk about, I talk about going from school to school and how like one situation I was going half a day at a public school and half a day at this other private school and during the middle of the day a short bus would come and pick me up in front of the middle school, the public middle school in the middle of the day to go to the rest of. Finish out the rest of the day at this other school across town. And I didn't want the short bus to be seen picking me up in front of the school. I wanted him to park a little bit down the road, like 50ft down the road so it wasn't in front of the entire school seeing me get on short bus. And the educational staff at Scarborough Middle School could not wrap their heads around a middle school student wanting to fit in socially. And I thought that that was something that you should absolutely be able to do as qualification for working in education. You should understand what's going through the mind of a normal middle school student at that age. Felt like that should be a qualification.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I think that's a, that's a really good point. And it seems like that's a no brainer, right?

Dylan Volk:

Yeah. They couldn't understand why I might not. Why I might be self conscious about that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So do you think that in your case you have, have been able to, as someone who's high functioning and as someone who is willing to talk about his experiences, do you think that you are helping to make others aware of what might be going on for Asperger's people?

Dylan Volk:

Yeah, I do think so. I hope so.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Dylan, you have spent. Not all of your life has been, I guess, rosy. You've spent some time actually very depressed about your situation and I know your parents have been with you every step of the way and it's been hard, hard for them and hard for you to go through this. I think another low point that was talked about in the book was time that you actually spent in jail. How. Yeah, how does that. I don't know. I think about my own son who's somewhere around your age and how difficult that would be for me to go through it, but also for him to go through that kind of experience. Tell me what that was like for you.

Dylan Volk:

Well, the first time going to jail was. It was alright because I Was only there for a day. And so it was kind of like I felt like it's some one of those things that everybody should have to do once just to say you did it. So it was. It was kind of interesting and kind of almost fun for me to first time. But then the second time it was like, getting a little bit old. And then the third time it was like, all right, I've already done this. I don't need to be doing this again. And now I'm to the point where I've been in jail in three different states. And I comparing jails, like, which jail did I like better? Which jail was more comfortable, which jail was the food the best? So my dad said, whenever you get to the point where you're comparing and contrasting jails, that's probably not a good sign in your life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

No, I would definitely agree with that. What did you do to try to, I guess, avoid jail in the future?

Dylan Volk:

The last time that I ended up in jail, as you'll read in the book, it was something that really could not have been avoided. So I remember saying, I'd love to walk out of here today and say, I'm never going to go back there, but I didn't do anything to come here in the first place. And when I did do something stupid to go to jail, I admitted it the first time I went to jail because I was trying to shoplift. And I admitted that from day one. I told everyone what I was there for. The third time, I ended up there because I accidentally. I was sitting in my car. Somebody got out of my car, was looking the other way at another person. Getting out of my car was a group of people. And then I let my foot off the brakes. The car started to roll forward because I thought that, you know, they were out of the car. And it turns out one of them was still in front of the car, like. And then she thought I was purposely trying to run her over, I guess. And so there was nothing I could have done to avoid.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It does seem that part of the issue was you so wanted to have friends and you so wanted to have people that cared about you that sometimes people would take advantage of that and take advantage of you. Maybe not in every situation, but it seems like sometimes that did get you into trouble. Would you agree?

Dylan Volk:

Yeah. Yes. It took me a long time to be able to correctly read people and read people's intentions and know what to look out for or whether to trust somebody or not.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, describe that process for me, because I think that for you who you didn't come into this world with that ability to read people quite as well. It's a real challenge to build that skill. How did you do that?

Dylan Volk:

It was just a lot of trial and error. Finally realized every time that I. Every time I trusted somebody I shouldn't have, I would just think about everything and every detail and what I should have looked out for and what I should have missed. And so it was just a lot of learning it the hard way. Is the answer that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Did it ever cause you to feel angry or cynical or bitter?

Dylan Volk:

Yeah, yeah, very much so.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How do you get beyond that to a place where you're now really continuing to try to make people laugh?

Dylan Volk:

It's just my nature. I think that I'm pretty good natured. So it's not my nature to stay bitter and stay cynical, but I use it to remember why I shouldn't be so trusting in the future.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You actually are not an only child. You have siblings in your family that have gone through this with you.

Dylan Volk:

I have three younger sisters and one of them is 12, one of them is 17, one of them is 22. And so obviously big difference age wise. The 12 year old one like doesn't remember most of the things happening in the book. The 22 year old one lived through all of it. So I don't know. Which one did you want to know about?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, tell me about the 22 year old. What was that like for her?

Dylan Volk:

Yeah, it was, it was. I mean, you could ask her better than me, but I would tell you it was probably very difficult at times when I was younger and we would have screaming matches like that would last for hours because I just wouldn't be able to drop a subject. I would get fixated on things and so I don't know, it was probably similar to having to grow up if your parents were like arguing all the time, which fortunately ours didn't a lot, but it would probably be similar to that kind of situation.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how do you get along now?

Dylan Volk:

We get along good now. She's been very good about looking past that kind of stuff in the past and now that I'm older and more mature, obviously we get in streaming matches less, not never, but pretty rarely now. And I'm much better at being able to drop things. So it's not stuff that'll go on and on all night. And you know, I'm sure that was hard as a kid.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So I know we talked earlier about the Lady Gaga parody video that you did and the types of interests that you have, including watching Entertainment television. How is that for you now? Trying to find people who you can relate to, especially men your age, people that can relate to the types of things that you like to do.

Dylan Volk:

It can be difficult. It can be hard because I take what things I'm interested in so seriously sometimes. And that's a common mistake that I've seen with like every Asperger's person I've ever met. And it's true for me to take things too seriously sometimes and don't realize that other people, even though they might be interested in that, they are taking it as seriously as you. So you have to know when it's appropriate to drop a subject and when it's okay to talk about it. And kind of have to hold myself back. So that's just one of many struggles that I find myself still facing today when I'm trying to meet somebody, you know, and relate to them.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what about relationships with women? How has that been? How has that been impacted by your Asperger's?

Dylan Volk:

Oh, that's, that's a different. Well, I mean, it's not a different story. It's interesting story. And like, basically when I was in high school, I started realizing that I wanted to be able to go on dates like other guys. And I thought that I was just as good looking and just as capable. So I started thinking, what am I doing wrong? What do I. What am I not doing? Because obviously I don't have a clue about how to talk to these girls. So I started to figure it out. And that took a while. I just kind of threw myself out there. And you can read all about that in the book and hear all about that. Also on my show Riding With Dylon on WLOB 100.5 on Saturdays, I do a segment called Dating with Dylon where I talk about my experiences like this. But like, that was definitely interesting. It took me a minute to learn how to be that guy and what guy I wanted to kind of be in order to talk to girls and to realize that you can't talk to them the same way, especially if you're trying to date them. You can't talk to them the same way that I might, you know, have a conversation with a peer about who's interested in the same thing I am. Like, no, it's very, very different.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Do you think that other people who don't have Asperger's might experience the same sorts of struggles?

Dylan Volk:

They do, but they're not as aware of it as I have been because of my situation? And I've worked very hard to be able to learn the right and the wrong ways to talk to girls, especially for dating. And that has been something I've been very, like, aware and deliberate of. And most people are not deliberate when it comes to that. Either they're good at it or they're not.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So in some ways, does this help you?

Dylan Volk:

No, but it definitely has allowed me to do it and be compete at the same level, you know, like, as a normal guy. Help. That might be a little strong word, but it could definitely help me teach other people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm a family practice doctor in my other life, and when I read about this diagnosis of the month club and realized that this is something that I could very easily have come into my own medical practice and not recognize, but really want to help. Do you have any suggestions for medical doctors or other people who are dealing with kids who don't have a clear diagnosis yet?

Dylan Volk:

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, what do you think that it would have been helpful for your doctors to see sooner rather than later when you were coming in as a patient?

Dylan Volk:

Well, it was in the 90s, you got to remember, and so Asperger's was barely known at the time. Now, I'm sure they would have all diagnosed me correctly, I would hope. But back then, it was obvious signs. Like, I spent an entire hour every week talking about one topic and the woman didn't pick up that that was a sign of Asperger's.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Dylan, I appreciate your taking the time to talk with me today about your experiences. How can people access your radio show or the YouTube channel that you have?

Dylan Volk:

I make it really easy for people. This is all you do. You Google my name, which is D I E L a W N. So Dilon. That's V I E L A W N. Just type that into Google. You'll find my Facebook. You'll find my show riding with Dylon. You'll find my YouTube channel. You'll find all the Dylon you could ever dream of.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, very good. I hope people do take the time to learn more about the work that you're doing currently, because I know that you've put a lot of effort into it and it's actually pretty funny. So it's worth taking the time to do that. Yes, We've been speaking with Dylan Voeck, who was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome at the age of 8 and graduated from Scarborough High School in 2010. Thanks so much for having this conversation with me today.

Dylan Volk:

All right, thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have been listening to Lovemain radio show number 246, Life on the Spectrum. Our guests have included Derek, Amy and Dylan Boak. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of lovemain Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Lovemain radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Life on the Spectrum show. Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

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