Music Mastery #187

Bob Ludwig:

I think music can often be very healing for human beings and so I'm always aware that when I'm working on records, even when I'm doing a heavy metal record, I'm thinking, well, there's probably some really depressed 13 year old who is getting a lot of healing from hearing this record. I'm always thinking about that when I'm working on records.

Sam Chase:

You have to be better, you know, you have to be good to entertain an audience, you know, you have to like know what you're doing, you know, and more importantly, you have to like feel good about what you're doing, you know. So I think it just comes from like a confidence in myself that I feel good about what I'm singing about and how I'm performing. And I hope that the audience, it comes across to the audience too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine radio show number 187, Music Mastery. Airing for the first time on Sunday, April 12, 2015. Music in Maine is alive and well on many levels. We have long had talented musicians, but we also have those whose work involves fine tuning the music once it has been recorded. Today we speak with preeminent mastering engineer Bob Ludwig, whose Grammy winning work is recognized the world over. We also speak with musician and award winning singer songwriter Sam Chase, who is making his mark on the main music scene. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's always interesting for me to hear about an individual over the years and

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

think, I wonder if I'll ever meet

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

that person because they're doing something pretty amazing that not many people in Maine are doing. And today I get to meet one of these individuals. I'm a little starstruck, I must admit. This is Bob Ludwig. He's Laughing at me already. Bob Ludwig is a Grammy winning mastering engineer who has been in the music business for over 40 years and has mastered countless gold and platinum records. He has worked on records for Neil Diamond, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen, Eric Clapton, Pearl Jam and many more.

Bob Ludwig:

And Frozen.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And Frozen. Oh my goodness, I can't believe that we've forgotten that. I can break out in song right now.

Bob Ludwig:

Let it go. Let it go.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

See how you're just gonna do it for us. I love it. This is, it's so interesting that you have created this space for yourself here in Maine of all places, but you're working with people all over the world. Really.

Bob Ludwig:

Yeah, we're really lucky. Went to the Eastman School of Music in Rochester and when I was finishing up my master's degree, Phil Ramone, who's a very famous music producer and engineer, came up to teach the first recording workshop there. And I was his kind of assistant. And at the end he asked me if I wanted to come work for him in New York. And I'd been playing trumpet with the Utica Symphony Orchestra, but I was also in the recording department at Eastman. And even in high school I couldn't decide if I wanted to go into engineering or to music. Thank goodness my high school music teacher convinced me to go to Eastman. It was the most fantastic experience for me. But any rate, I'd been playing with the Utica Symphony Orchestra enough to know that, that I was ready for a change. And so when Phil asked me to come, I decided I was going to do it. Because it's the old saying, if you can make it in New York, you can make it anywhere. So I worked very hard at A and R Recording Studios, where I first started. And then several years later a new mastering, an independent mastering facility was established in New York called Sterling Sound. And I was their first employee. That was where I did Led Zeppelin 2 and Houses of Holy and Jimi Hendrix and all those people. And then Sterling Sound was bought by a public company which started another studio mastering studio called MasterDisc. And so they were both owned by the same public company. And at one point it worked for me to move from sterling over to MasterDisc. And so, and then I was there for many years and then for a long time. Well, for my whole career when I was at Sterling, a lot of people thought I owned the company, which I didn't. And at Master Disk people thought I owned the company, which I didn't. And so I finally was convinced to start my own studio. And we had a lot of thoughts. Gail and I, my wife, were thinking like, gee, we really can't go more north of 96th street in New York and had all these concerns. And then once we decided, well, we could do that, then we thought, well, maybe we should go to Woodstock or maybe we should go to Stamford, Connecticut. And then because my folks lived up in Stockton Springs, my sister still lives up there now, and we'd been visiting them for many, many years, we decided that Maine would be the perfect place to start a studio. Because the actual design of the studio that I wanted to do demanded 20 foot high ceilings, which like a New York City, if you're in a high rise, which almost everybody is, that's out of the question to have anything that high that wasn't super expensive in the multi million dollar range, you know, to build something like that. But in Maine, we found a place that's now by the Westin Hotel and Joe Wishkamper owned the spot and he was ready to sell one of the commercial condominiums. And we looked at all the other spaces and we decided we wanted his space. And so he agreed, being the good salesperson he was. And so we had a lot of the infrastructure was pre built, but there were this huge, huge area that had over 20 foot high ceilings. That was the perfect place to build the studio. We kind of had this great acoustical architect do the conceptual design for the studio. So before we moved up here, we knew how big a space we needed to be in. So we looked at all kinds of places, the old Porteous building, which is now the Maine College of Art, and many other buildings in Portland, and found that this was the best spot. So, yeah, it worked out great. And I've never ever regretted maybe the time we had that ice storm in the 90s when all the infrastructure collapsed. Except for that. I've never regretted moving up here. Yeah, it's really so beautiful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How did you and Gail meet?

Bob Ludwig:

Gail and I met around 1970. Gail lived on a commune in upper New York State and she's Canadian from Montreal, and she ended up in this commune called zbs. And she was married there to another guy there. And they used to do a thing called Artist in Residence, which they had a little recording studio there. And Gail's a recording engineer and producer, and they had people like David Tudor, Phil Glass and Laurie Anderson and other artists like that would come up to do these recordings that were funded by the New York State Council of the Arts. And my cousin happened to be the treasurer of the place. He had come from out in Vietnam and was the treasurer. And I came up to visit him several times and met Gail there, just as a matter of meeting everyone there. It was a pretty large group. And then years later, when the commune was kind of folding up, ZBS still exists. They still do radio shows there, but everybody had left. And so it was just Gail and her then husband, and she decided they were going to be splitting up. And my cousin said, be sure to go see Bob in New York if you're going to look for a job. So I was at Master Disc and Gail walked into the studio and it was one of those really magical things. It was like, oh, wow. I don't remember Gail being like that, you know, and apparently she had the same thing. And so we had lunch in the studio and started dating after that. And it was. It's been very magical.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you've been working together for most of that time since you.

Bob Ludwig:

Well, since we started Gateway. So I met Gail in. What was that? 81, I guess it was. Yep. And we got married in 84. So it wasn't until 92 that we started building Gateway and we opened our doors in January of 93. So it was a while there that she didn't work for me. She was. She did it degree at Fordham during that time, and she was Laurie Anderson's kind of personal assistant there and had other jobs, and so it was all really good.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what's it like to have this be such a collaborative process? She's now the manager of your studio, of your Gateway, and you are obviously this essential part, but what's it like to work together?

Bob Ludwig:

Oh, it's really good. And it's easy because I'm sequestered in my windowless studio for 12 hours a day, and she's out in the front office with all the other engineers and the people that schedule me. Rachel Higgins is this wonderful woman who schedules me and she answers all the phone calls that I couldn't possibly answer and takes care of things. And Gail keeps everything sane. It can be a very insane kind of environment with everybody wanting something now, especially with the Internet. When we started Gateway, we were figuring that we do everything by FedEx because the Internet really hadn't happened yet. And then when the Internet started happening, we started getting more and more projects over the Internet. In fact, it was a Mariah Carey record. That was the very first project where she was in Italy. Her producers, Terry Jam and Lewis were in Minnesota. And everything came into me electronically over the Internet, the mixes. And so we'd Send something in from Minnesota, I'd master it and send it to Mariah and Capri, Italy where she was. And that was the very first session I did where not one physical piece of anything came in or out of the studio. It was all ones and zeros coming in and out of the studio. So that was a big event to do that record. So that was really quite something.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's interesting to think about that, that you have all these names that you've worked with and I'm sure you've met many of them, but you've also just had the opportunity to kind of work with data, to work with pieces that have come from people, sounds that have come from people and people's instruments, and to try to fit them all together.

Bob Ludwig:

Well, mastering is the final step. In other words, after they've recorded it and they mix it down in a good studio, usually with some. The people we work with are usually world class mixers. Then the question is, can it sound any better than it sounds? Because it's very competitive out there if you're in the music marketplace trying to sell your music and make it sound great. So sometimes what we do we don't have to do too much because it's already sounding amazing. And the good news is if something comes in sounding really amazing, if we do the smallest thing to it, it sounds like we've done a lot. So that's good news for us. And then the kind of the average project that we get now sounds almost worse than it ever has in my whole career. Because of the collapse of the record industry, there's no more budgets for most of the records. So people are forced to work in studios or be recorded by their neighbor who just bought a pro tool system and thinks they know what to do with it. So the average mix comes in sounding pretty ratty. And so the mastering step, which is trying to make it just sound as good as possible, can really make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, so to speak, and do something really dramatically better to what what we've been given. So we kind of went in both ways. If it sounds good, we can make it sound a little bit better and the people are thrilled. And if it sounds horrible, just to make it sound normal makes people thrilled. But. But we do work with a lot of people that are in a very heavy state of paranoia and, and high expectations. So Gail really is able to. And Rachel and Tom that do the scheduling are really able to deal beautifully with these people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Give me examples of some of the things that you would do with something that came in sounding either really great or really ratty. Like, what is it that as you're mastering, what are you tweaking?

Bob Ludwig:

Well, like last year I got a Grammy for Album of the Year for the Daft Punk record. And Thomas from the group came in with the engineer who'd mixed that record, Mick Gazowski. And Mick and I go back a long way. He comes from Rochester, New York. And when I was at Eastman, Mick was the young super engineer at the local studio in Rochester. And so I got to meet him while I was at Eastman. So I've known him since the late 60s and he became a world class engineer. He did all the. In fact, he mixed a lot of those Mariah Carey records. So he mixed the Daft Punk record out in Conway in Los Angeles. And he did, of course, a great job on it, but the group was just like insanely interested in the finest detail. There's no detail that they overlooked. I used to say that with the collapse of the industry, there are no more million dollar budget records. But this was one that I don't know for sure, but it had to have been over that. Normally you mix to either Pro Tools or to analog tape. In this case, he mixed to five different formats. He mixed to a thing called Directstream Digital, which is super high resolution digital. He mixed a high resolution normal digital on Pro Tools and then he mixed to three different kinds of tape machines with either half inch wide tape or quarter inch tape running at 30 inches a second or running at 15 inches a second. And then fortunately, Thomas and his partner there listened to most of those formats and decided mostly in advance which one sounded best for each particular song. But then when we met at the studio, we still went through that exercise of listening to the different formats and choosing which one sounded the best. And so it's just a lot of detail and a lot of time spent doing that comparisons. And then when we started mastering it, he apparently had gone somewhere else before and was disappointed because it sounded kind of distorted and didn't meet his vision. And so I said, well, you don't need to make a record that sounds crazy loud. What you want is quality. And so we made one that had maintained all the dynamics that he had done in the mixes. And so he was really thrilled about that. And then once we had a baseline set as to how good the record could sound, and of course, when I'm listening to it, if something sounded a little dull, we have equalizers that we can brighten things with, or if it needed more bass or less bass and needed more mid range. We could add that most of the equalizers we have are similar to the bass and treble controls you have on your preamp. Except we can choose any frequency in the spectrum and boost or cut it at any sharpness or broadness. So once we had the basic record, then there was a decision that, well, he wanted to come back a little bit more and make it a little bit more louder and be a little bit more present and in your face sounding. So there's different compressors that can be used to make a record louder. And so we examined all those. And then we ended up mastering the entire record with one and then the entire record with another one. And it was rather endless. And Thomas came back several times. It's so interesting because I have to confess, when the session was booked, I had never heard of Daft Punk. I didn't know about their work with Tron and all that. And that they were very successful. So when he came to the studio, he wasn't without the helmet that they always wear. Daft Punk, the group always wears a helmet in public. And so I didn't know anything about that. And it turns out it was a big deal that I'd seen him without the helmet, you know, but he's just a very nice guy, actually. He's very particular, and I completely respect that. And I'm right there with the artist, you know, I'll dig down as deep in any level of subtlety that you want, you know, if you've got the time to do it. And so I was happy to do that. Plus something about that Daft Punk music had a lot of life energy in it. And I noticed that working on that music, I always felt uplifted at the end of the session rather than tired from it. So there was something special that those guys created. So that was very, very good. And then after several months of working on that record off and on, like, they would do it. And then sometimes they'd call me up and do several things. And then Thomas would come back again and book another session. And he'd fly here from either Parish or Los Angeles. And we'd spend time together refining this or that or changing a mix or whatever we were doing. And then we finished in December. And then the record wasn't due out until May. And so I taught Thomas how to do some engineering things. And he bought one of the pieces of gear that I had. And I knew he was going to go to France and fool with it some more. You know, take my work and then work with it some more. And so he did that. And so when. That's one of the only time in my life, and ironically, it was a Grammy, that I shared it with another mastering engineer from France who helped them do the very final extra compression that they added at the end. So that's a brief rundown of what we do. But in other cases, we do a lot of. Like, when we get to hear a record, normally the sequence hasn't been chosen, let alone the title of the record, of the artwork. So there's lots and lots of records that I've done that people ask me if I've done them, and I say, I don't know. And the reason was that the record wasn't titled when I did it. So if they sang me, told me a title of the songs or sang a little bit of it, I'd say, oh, yeah, I did that. Or no, I don't think I did that. You know, that kind of thing. And that remains to this day. I still don't. Most of the records I'm doing right now, I don't know what the titles are or, I mean, the title of the album or what the COVID looks like. Although sometimes with the Internet, the groups will post that on their site. Like, sometimes we learn more from going on the Internet and seeing the group's website than we do from the record label, because everything we do is usually very secret. Like, the Daft Punk record was just a total secret for over half a year. Same thing with some of the Radiohead records I did. I do a record with them. And then the producer, Nigel Goodrich would say, well, it's all set, but we're just going to sit on this for a while. And so, you know, we know that this incredible record's there out, waiting for the world to hear. And all our staff knows that they can't talk about any of the projects that we're doing. And we can't have interns or job shadowing because we don't give many tours either. Because every time we do a tour, we gotta hide everything so people don't see what we're working on. And so it kind of goes that way.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

we@lovemaine Radio enjoy a special relationship with Apothecary by Design. This photography exhibit will be available from March 27 to April 24 at 75 Market St. The office is a Maine Magazine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We hope you take the time to stop by. What was it like for you to go from being a player, a trumpet player, to being, I guess, a mastering. Master of mastering, I guess.

Bob Ludwig:

Well, as I said, I was finishing up my master's degree and I was simultaneously the first trumpet player in the Utica New York Symphony Orchestra. And that was super exciting to do that. And one of the things was that as a trumpet player, one of my goals in the far future was to play the very high trumpet parts in the Bach B Minor Mass in the Utica Symphony. All of a sudden one day they said, well, we're going to do the Bach B Minor Mass. And I'm going, really? I wasn't ready for this for 10 years. And so my trumpet teacher loaned me the piccolo trumpet that Eastman owned, and I did nothing but play that trumpet for a month and really got to learn it. And we had several performances in Utica, and it was broadcast on the radio, and it was very successful in the whole thing. And then when it was over, I really had this feeling of, like, wow. I just accomplished this big goal that I had set for myself and wasn't expecting to have it happen so fast. And I think that's when Phil Ramon asked me if I wanted to come work for him. I was more receptive to that than I might have been, you know. So I left Eastman and. And went to A and R Recording, which was on 48th street in New York City. And it was a very famous studio. They'd already done work with Burt Bracharach and Dionne Warwick, and, oh, they'd done lots of records by then. So I was Phil's assistant. So I would do setups in the studio, which was great because I got to meet all the artists as this, setting up the mics and all that. And I met any guest engineers that worked there. And we also did work for ad agencies. So I got to just like Mad Men, you know, these are exactly those years that Mad Men is on, actually. I got to meet all the major music directors from the different ad agencies in New York, you know, Foot, Colin Bending and Ogilvy Mathers and all the other big ad agencies and saw how insane that was their whole life. I mean, I remember we're doing a Noxzema commercial and there were three different people that would argue as to how to pronounce Noxzema, was Noxzema or Noxzema, you know. And so I quickly realized that I didn't want to do that. And then as part of the regular training for an apprentice at anr, everyone had to learn how to do disc cutting. And everyone did a stint in that. Because to be a really good mixer, especially back then, before vinyl disc technology had evolved to where it did in the mid-70s and where it ended up until then, you really had to know the limitations of disc cutting. In order to do a good mix on a record, you had to make sure that the singer wasn't too sibilant, because that's very difficult to cut onto disc. When I got into the disc cutting thing, I was, like, genetically predisposed to it somehow. This attention to the most minutia, you know, the minute minutia, and having patience, where you could cut a record for 20 minutes and the vacuum stopped sucking up the part of the record that it cut, and it would go all over the record and would ruin everything, and you have to redo it again, and you had to not lose your patience. And so I was very patient, and for some reason, I just gravitated to it. And very shortly, because I knew how to read scores from the Eastman School of Music, A and R recording started attracting clients they never would have attracted, like Nonesuch Records. And Nonesuch Records became one of my oldest, and they're, to this day, a client of mine. And so I've been working with them since the late 60s and still work with Bob Hurwitz, and I work with Steve Reich and all the other great artists that are on Nonsuch. So this is a really long story how I got it from the trumpet. So trumpet is not like piano, where, you know, if you're sick, you can just go back and play chords and it sounds nice. With trumpet, as soon as you're sick, even for a day, you. Your embouchure, the way you can put the mouthpiece against your mouth and blow into it, those muscles get weak very quickly. So you have to kind of do long tones and spend a lot of time getting your tone back, even if it's a short amount of time. So once you give it up, even for a week, your embouchure goes very quickly. And Then when you pick it up, it's very unsatisfying. You have amazing technique, but you sound like a fifth grader for a while. So I just. And I was having so much fun doing the recording, especially as an assistant because, you know, he'd do setups for the Vienna Boys Choir with, you know, a zillion kids in this room and singing joy to the world, you know, so I felt. And then the other side of the coin is two other things. When I came into A and R, I mean, this was in the days of four track recording. Eight track was just coming in and the studio musicians that they chose were just the most crackajack musicians on the planet. I swear I worked at A and R for six months before I heard any brass player miss a note. And this is sight reading all the charts. I swear I never heard him miss one note in six months. And. And there was a. You know, the level that these guys played at was so high. I knew that, you know, my bar had now gotten set so high. I knew I could never do that, you know, so giving up the trumpet wasn't so hard.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I like it. I think it's. It's interesting just for me to think about. I mean, there's such different parts of your sensibility. You know, you have your embouchure and your mouth and your musician training and then you have, you know, the ear training that goes along with musician training, but just. It's just, it's different. It's a different way of approaching music.

Bob Ludwig:

Yeah. As an engineer, you know, even though I was in the recording department, to get into that fine ability to listen very, very carefully. There was two clients in particular that really trained me. When I used to work when I was at A and R, I used to cut records for Enoch Light, who, when hi Fi first came out, he had these records called Persuasive Percussion, where to highlight the stereo. There'd be the bongos on the left and then the bongos on the right and, oh, it was what was called ping pong stereo. So that, you know, everything was. They were trying to do as much surround sound as possible with two speakers. But his daughter Julie Clages, who was the producer on the records, had this immense attention to detail. And she really helped stretch my ears and made me focus as to what she was hearing. And then later on, the very famous songwriting team of Lieber and Stoller, who did, you know, Hound Dog and all the Coasters material and Yakety Yak and all those records. I did a Peggy Lee record that they did, and those two were so tuned into what they did, it was just amazing. So those two clients really taught me how to listen very, very carefully.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As a physician and small business owner,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I rely on Marcy Booth from Booth Main to help me with my own business and to help me live my own life fully.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Here are a few thoughts from Marcy

[Unidentified voice]:

when was the last time you took a break from what you were doing, from the work that was piled up on your desk and just looked up? I know that during the course of my days I often forget to take a moment or two to just breathe, look up at the sky and dream. Terrible that I have to remind myself to breathe. But when I do, I feel energized because in those moments I'm able to let go of the daily grind and think more about what I want to accomplish, how I want my business to grow. Sometimes those are the aha moments. If we all took a few moments out each day to stop what we were doing and dream a little about our business futures, not only would we feel a great sense of calm, but we may come to realize that these dreams can in fact, come true. I'm Marcie Booth. Let's talk about the changes you need. Boothmaine.com

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

People who are familiar with the Main and in fact, I'll say northeast New England music scene are becoming increasingly familiar with Sam Chase. I know Sam Chase because he happens to be the fiance of the managing editor of Maine Magazine, Kelly Clinton. Sam is a guitarist, drummer and award winning singer songwriter originally from the South Shore of Massachusetts, who is now based in Portland. He was named top songwriter at the 2010 Connecticut Folk Festival and is currently working on his third studio album. He has shared the stage with some of the finest artists in his genre, including Mark Cohn, John Gorka, Laurie McKenna, Ellis Paul and Jonathan Edwards. He'll be performing once again at this year's Kennebung port Festival on June 8th. So great to have you here today.

Sam Chase:

Thanks Lisa. Psyched to be here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The last time I heard you perform you were at the art gallery right across the street here and we were celebrating a different sort of art. Your genre though, your art is music.

Sam Chase:

Yeah, yeah. I got an acoustic guitar kind of mixed up with some blues and folk and country and rootsy kind of thing, you know, it's a. It's a big kind of mixture of a lot of the influences and artists that I like, you know, but like acoustic based.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You grew up on the south shore of Massachusetts.

Sam Chase:

Yep. In a town called Scituate. You would know about Scituate because it's always on the news anytime there's a major storm. And I'm surprised that you have probably. You may have seen my house because the house I grew up in is right on the beach in Minot. And every time there's a nor' easter or a hurricane, they always show the waves crashing on the houses and like devastation. And it's funny, growing up, we used to just watch the. Our house was sort of the only house that was set back a little bit from the water. So we'd sit in the porch and you just watch the water, the ocean like roll through the yard. And it could be scary for someone who didn't know what was going on. But for us, like, we're so used to it that you just know that the ocean would go through the yard and wouldn't touch the house. So, yeah, that's situated. It's a beautiful town. But it's. During the storms, it's always like the kind of place to be for the news. The news people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's intense.

Sam Chase:

It is, it is. It's fun though. It's. It makes for interesting storm days. I don't think my dad likes the fact that, you know, he has to get rid of the rocks every year.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But how did you get interested in music?

Sam Chase:

I've always been interested in music. I definitely come from a musical family. Like my parents used to sing at different events, you know, like it was either like a Christmas Eve mass or something or a friend's party or something like that. But my brother was also a big influence for me. He was nine years older than me and he played music. He went to Berkeley. My uncle was a guitar player. He went to Berkeley back in the 70s. And you know, I just. I had the bug early, you know, I wanted to play drums so bad, you know, I just like would bang on, you know. I couldn't wait to get my first drum set, you know, and my. A lot of my siblings. I'm the youngest of five kids and everyone took piano lessons. So I took piano lessons starting at 8 and got into the drums when I was around 10 and kind of followed my brother's footsteps when I was about 12 with guitar. So I just. I don't know. I love Music always wanted to do it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Always had the bug I'm thinking about having. I come from a family of 10 and I can't imagine having a child in my family who wanted to be a drummer so badly that he was running around bagging on things on purpose. I wonder how your mom felt about that.

Sam Chase:

Well, to have a drummer as a child, you have to have a room for the drums.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I see.

Sam Chase:

That's kind of step number one. So we had the third floor and my dad like soundproofed that baby up, you know, and you could still hear it. But at least it, it was a place for me to go and not it not be like, you know, in people's faces when I'm banging on the cymbals and making loud noises up there. So, you know, it's cool though, you know, my parents have always been super supportive of me as a musician, but I also play in a band with my parents and it's me, my parents, my brother and we have our bass player that plays with both Matt and I and a three piece horn section. So, you know, not every kid wants to necessarily hang out with their parents. But I actually play in a band with my parents, so they've, you know, they're a big supporter of me and we've always had a really close relationship. So it's actually fun to be able to sing and harmonize and play music with your parents too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I love that. I think about when I'm in the car with my daughters and we're singing because they sing and I sing and we're harmonizing and it's just very informal, but it's such a great, like to be able to like do that. Yeah, I don't know, there's something about that that's just really special.

Sam Chase:

Well, and music is not just meant to be like, you know, make money at. I mean like I, I do it as for a living, but it's, it's like this therapeutic, fun way of communicating, you know. And I, you know, in addition to playing music, I teach a lot of music lessons. So it's like you try to, you try to get through to kids at different, different ways. Sometimes kids pick up on it. They have a natural talent. Other times kids, you know, struggle with that mechanically rhythm. They don't have that rhythm thing, you know. So you gotta try to try to like find it for them, you know. And sometimes it takes a long time and sometimes people, you know, don't last. But other times it's like you get through to certain people and all of A sudden, you see that person, you know, they come in the next week and they've learned something completely on their own. And like, now, you know that they've kind of had that, I don't know, a little light, like, went off or something, and they have that bug now, you know, and that. That to me is cool because I always had that, you know, so, like, to try to get somebody else to, like, experience that, you know, I think that is. That's. It's fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, that's pretty great. I think about. Often people will say to me, well, I'm not artistic, so I can't do art. Or I'm not. I'm not good with languages, I can't speak French, or I'm not good with math. But I always enjoy thinking about. Well, maybe your brain isn't naturally inclined that way, but maybe there's a natural inclination of your brain that will help you understand art, music, math in a new way. So the way that you're talking about, so, you know, trying to get through to somebody's brain kind of like taking an end run.

Sam Chase:

Yeah. I mean, because music is. It can be a bunch of different things, you know what I mean? For me, I kind of base it on the instruments that I play. So it would be piano, guitar, drums, you know, any kind of percussion. So, like, I always tell people if they're gonna start taking music or, you know, if they're gonna. They're trying to figure out what to play first, you know, I always am. Okay, play piano. Because piano is like just this fundamental instrument. And, you know, who doesn't like, sitting around the piano singing songs at a party? I mean, it's like. It's always when somebody's like, at that moment, they're like, oh, I wish I played. I wish I kept playing piano, you know what I mean? Because it's just like people. People love that, like, sing along, like, fun experience, you know, and. And to be able to, like, have that, like. I don't know, to be able to connect with people through a song is, you know, it's. It's a unique experience, I think. You know, I can't speak for. For painters and artists of that kind, because I don't do that, you know, But I imagine that there's some kind of connection with an audience too, but more probably through their own experience of, like, actually making that, creating the art, you know. So

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm sitting here, I just have so many thoughts that are running through my mine. Because you're right, if you're playing music with someone and you're actually with someone, then there's something very present about that. And if you are doing art the way that it's appreciated is just, it's just different and it's not quite the same. It's not like you're sitting there watching the person paint.

Sam Chase:

Right. Although that'd be kind of cool. Although I don't know how long that would take.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, that's true. That's true. But I do think, you know, you hit on something which is this, this appreciation that really anyone can have for music that it doesn't. We don't have to all go. You went to Berkeley. We don't all have to go to Berkeley to have an appreciation for music. We can.

Sam Chase:

Of course not.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We can sing in the shower, we can go to mass, we can go to a pub and listen to a band. I mean, we can really listen to it in whatever way makes sense for us.

Sam Chase:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of people think that music is what we hear on the Grammys or maybe what we hear on the radio or you know, this little like kind of 1% of the music business thing that, that's, that's music, you know. But, but there's really a giant amount of music out there, especially locally. You know, I come from like playing a lot of, you know, I like to. I've met a lot of like local musicians both in Maine and in Massachusetts, you know, that, you know, they do what I do. They play the pubs, they play a few nice gigs that open for, you know, a good artist or something like that. And then, you know, they have a really good show and then they're back, you know, playing, you know, some pub or some bar, you know, again the next night and, you know, you doing your thing. And I think, like, you know, if people, you know, take a little bit more time to look, you know, go and see something local, go see, like, what your local scene has to offer because there's so many, like, talented people and songwriters and people that are working on their craft that that's their. That's their. That's their only outlet right now. But that doesn't mean that they're not, you know, worthy of being heard kind of a thing, you know. So I like trying to get the word out to go, go see. Go see who's playing, you know, at your local spots or whatever.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'd like to hear what you are going to play for us right now, because it sounds like maybe you can tempt some people who are going to listen to your song to come out and listen to you play in the Portland area or even maybe other parts of the Northeast, because I know that you're out and about quite a lot. So what are you going to play for us?

Sam Chase:

I figured that I would do, like, the one song I've written so far that has to do with Maine. You know, we're on the main show here. So this is a song I wrote recently. It's called Pine street, which just so happens to be the Pine street over in the West End. And I, you know, I. I write a lot of love songs. I kind of write what I feel, you know, so there might be a certain place or certain spot or a certain word that kind of like jumps into my head. And I tend to just think of a story that I've experienced or something like that. So Pine Street's sort of a love song about falling in love in Maine and never wanting that to, you know, end or wanting, I guess, wanting to relive that love all over again.

Sam Chase:

I'm walking hand in handy leave dance through our feet well, I wouldn't give to fall in love on pike street again. And if I was your baby I would not forget the little things you do to keep my heart full of

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

love

Sam Chase:

I never told you that I loved you enough and if I had a chance to do it over There are words that I would never say again well, I was never good at telling you I loved you but you believe that I can be a better man. And coffee shops and cafes Making love on Sundays Walking through the old board Never knew I could have it so good,

Sam Chase:

So good.

Sam Chase:

And if I had a chance to do it over. There are words that I would say again and again. Well, I was never good at telling you I love you. Just know that I've been trying to be a better man. 136 miles of separation. Too many lonely nights that get me down. You can't keep a heart so full love from shining a road too long to keep me from getting back to town. I'm walking hand in handy lead dance to our feet where I wouldn't give to fall in love on Pine street again.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Sam, that was really great. As I was listening, it was. You know, it's this interesting thing that always happens with me and probably happens with lots of people where there's something. There's like a bypass, you know, you're not intellectualizing what's going on. You're just listening to the music. You're just. There's something that is very. It just made me happy. The song made me really happy.

Sam Chase:

Well, I'm glad. I think, you know, I think, as, you know, we just kind of exchanged off the air here. It was like, you know, you could tell that I was feeling happy or whatever. You know, sort of exchanged through the. My body language, maybe. But, yeah, for me, like, I'm. You know, when I write, when I sing and perform my own songs, I mean, it's. I write what I feel, so it's probably natural that it comes across that way, I guess, just because they're the. You know, it's me expressing. It's probably me in my most vulnerable, sensitive state. Just because, like, I have a hard time writing about, you know, objects like an apple, you know, like, making art, making an apple. Like a lyrical song about that or something. You know what I mean? I find it amazing. I mean, there are songwriters that can just write about anything, and they write really good songs. And, you know, I kind of wish I could do that, or maybe I just wish I had the patience to do that. But for me, it's always just easier if it's just, like, something that I feel or think about. And, yeah, I'm sort of in my element when I'm performing my songs, I guess.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Kelly Clinton, who's one of the producers for the radio show and is also now the managing editor for Maine Magazine, she moved up here, you know, about 15 months ago or so. And at the time. But at that time, you had to shift with her. You were both based in Massachusetts, and she decided to come up here and take this job a Great opportunity for her. And you had to make that shift, too. What was that like to leave a place that you were familiar with and the music scene that you were familiar with to try to build a new life in Portland?

Sam Chase:

Well, it was both frightening and exciting at the same time. I mean, Kel and I have always. My lovely fiance Kelly and I have always, you know, talked about, you know, trying to live somewhere else. And Kel's the adventure type. You know, I'm sort of like the practical, like, wait, we have to have a job. And, you know, she gets me out of my shell a little bit, which is great. So for me, I've been, you know, teaching and performing and have my whole, you know, have a really pretty extensive network of students in gigs in Massachusetts. It's where my family is and. And where my brother plays and blah, blah, blah and all that stuff. But so coming to a new place was kind of scary for me. Cause I have to basically start over, you know. But Kel. Kel was basically starting her career and she has supported me doing my thing, and I would definitely support her doing her job. So for me, we weren't moving too far away. You know, I could sort of sustain the commute to Massachusetts thing until I was able to, you know, until I'm able to be up here full time. But for me, it's. It's, you know, we're young and it's a chance for us to. To meet new people and experience a new place. And that can only be good for a songwriter, I think, you know. So, yeah, it's been. It's been a. Definitely an adventure. And, you know, we're settling into Maine. I love living in Maine. Portland, Portland has been. Has exceeded my expectations. I had been to Portland one time before moving here, and that was for like a Mumford and Sons concert on the Eastern Prom. And so I literally came here and, like, went to the Eastern Prom and then, like, left. So I really didn't even know that, like, the rest of it existed. So getting to live here has been definitely a joy for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

My daughter Abby was at that concert. So it's funny at the number of intersections that occur as a result of

Sam Chase:

music, I wish they would do more. That was like, such a cool show, you know, it was such, like, a unique show, too. I mean, they did the whole festival, Long Day Festival. And that setting the backdrop of the bay behind a stage is just, like, crazy. So, yeah, that was a lot of fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, we'll put that intention out there into the universe and see What? See what happens as a result of you saying that.

Sam Chase:

Yeah. I mean, it's gonna be the right person. I mean, it has to be the right act. You know, I don't think, like, you know, I don't know. I don't know if you want, like. I don't know. You don't want. You want. You don't want the wrong band there. That might upset some people, but I thought they were a good fit.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I agree.

Sam Chase:

Then again, they did have, like, the Dropkick Murphy's play that day, too, so they had quite a mixture of bands on that bill.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's pretty. Actually. Aren't the Dropkick Murphy's? Don't they have a Red Sox connection, like a Massachusetts connection?

Sam Chase:

They're like the unofficial band of the Boston sports teams.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So we're just continuing this main Massachusetts thing that's been around for a long time.

Sam Chase:

Yeah, I think. Think so.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's a good thing.

Sam Chase:

Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you're gonna be playing at the Kenny Buncourt Festival?

Sam Chase:

Yep.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

June 8th.

Sam Chase:

Yep. Excited to be back for that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Tell me about that.

Sam Chase:

Well, I did it last year for the first time. I played at one of their parties. And this year I'm playing at the opening party, I suppose, like, the party on Monday. And, you know, I got to experience the Kennebunk Port Festival for the first time last year. And it was. It was really cool. I mean, it was very. You know, the festival supports artists, chefs, musicians. You know, it's like this whole, like, conglomerate of just really good art and food and music that Maine has to offer, and especially in a setting like Kennebunkport, which is so beautiful and peaceful and serene, and I feel right at home because it's that harbor, it's the boats, It's. You know, it reminds me of home. So it was definitely. I've gotten to spend a little bit of extra time in Kennebunkport, and it's definitely a cool little place to be able to have a festival, that's for sure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What is it like to be engaged to a person who also works with words, but works with words, really, from just a writing standpoint? So you're a songwriter?

Sam Chase:

Sure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

She's a writer. Writer and an editor. How does that Collaboration or partnership or just even? Well, how does that work?

Sam Chase:

Well, anytime I need one of my bios to be edited, I know who to go to when it comes to writing lyrics. I mean, I am not a patient person. I don't go through a draft process. I sort of. I open the computer Screen and, you know, I have songs that are unfinished. I just haven't gone back to them, you know, for me, it's like. It has to, like, hit me in the moment to, like, finish it. Otherwise, I just leave, you know? Which probably would drive Kel crazy if she were, you know, she were the one writing it, because she would probably go through draft after draft. You know, as an editor, you kind of. You're trained to just, like, try different things, you know, And I'm just. I've never been a lyric a lyrical guy, you know, for me, for my. Just listening to, you know, growing up as a fan of different people, I never was. I never heard the words. You know, I was a big Dave Matthews fan. I didn't care about the words. I just loved the music. And I'm a huge Pearl Jam fan. I barely know what Eddie better says half the time. I don't think anybody really knows what half the time what he says. But he's a. He's a beautiful lyricist, too. And, you know, it's only since I've gotten into songwriting that I've actually started paying attention to it. And then you start to, you know, find your own voice and sort of try to figure out what you would say and how you want to come across. And for me, it's like, I have to. If I don't believe in the words, I can't. I can't. You know, I don't want to commit to it, you know, so I kind of just wait for it to happen, and then hopefully it's good.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I would agree with you. I know one of the reasons that Kelly has made her work with the radio show so successful is that she's very much about getting things done, and. And she's got her checklists, and she makes sure the people are scheduled, and she's great at connecting with people. So it interests me to. This is not the first time that I've heard somebody say that she's adventuresome. That's just an interesting thing, that we can all be so complex as human beings that we can be really good at getting things done, but we also can adventure and create a new life in Portland.

Sam Chase:

Yeah, absolutely. And, I mean, with Kel, you know, she's. Travel the world, and, you know, we've gone. We. We go to Costa Rica. It's like one of our most. It's one of our favorite places. Costa Rica is the most beautiful, peaceful place ever. You know, it's like, I've never, like, felt so relaxed going there. It's like no tv, I bring my guitar, I just like hang out. We just sit on the beach and you know, being able to, you know, have someone in your life that pushes you, you know, pushes you a little bit to try new things and experience new things, you know, it's gonna be healthy, right? It's like a healthy way to live, I think.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I absolutely agree, Sam. I know people can listen to you at the Kenny Bunkport Festival on June 8 and where else can they find out about the work that you do, the music that you play and where you'll be playing for the community?

Sam Chase:

My website, samchasemusic.com that's basically where I post all my shows and you know, any updates and news and stuff like that. Also, social media is really big for me just in terms of letting people know, you know, on a more current basis, day to day basis. You can find me on, on Facebook, which is samchase music on Facebook. Those are basically the two meccas of music for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I really appreciate your starting the day with us here.

Sam Chase:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's been a really great experience. We've been speaking with Sam Chase who is a guitarist, drummer and award winning singer songwriter who is originally from the south shore of Massachusetts, now making his home in Portland, Maine. We really appreciate your being here.

Sam Chase:

I enjoyed it. Thanks Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been listening to Love Maine radio show number 187, music mastery. Our guests have included Bob Ludwig and Sam Chase. For a preview of each week's show, sign up for our e newsletter and like our LoveMain Radio Facebook page, follow me on Twitter and see my running travel, food and wellness photos as bountiful1 on Instagram. We'd love to hear from you. So please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Lovemain radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Music Mastery show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.