Outdoor Education #141

Nik Charov:

How can I continue to instill and inculcate in my boys just the fact that they can get outside, get energetic, get moving and that I can do it with them to just be out there spending time together in the non judgmental, the non cheering? Just being out there, I think is the real opportunity it gives us.

Dr. David Johnson:

There's been lots and lots of studies showing objective effects on psychological well being, concentration, happiness. So there's a whole host of first of all psychological and then physical things that interplay from even very limited exposures to the outdoors. If it happens on any kind of

Eric Topper:

consistent basis, I think me and Audubon and lots of Audubon societies sort of nationwide have it figured out in terms of bringing nature and the wilderness and wildlife and habitat into communities where people have really immediate access to these same sorts of opportunities to form values and experience things around them and that sort of thing really close.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast Show Number 141 Outdoor Education airing for the first time on Sunday morning, May 25, 2014. It's spring and the perfect time to get back out into the Maine outdoors. There are numerous benefits to being outside emotional, physical, social and spiritual. Today we discuss these benefits and the work being done by two special Maine places with Nick Charov and Dr. David Johnson of Wells Reserve at Lotholme and Eric Topper of Maine Audubon. Join our conversation and be inspired. Thank you for joining us. I've always been a huge proponent of getting kids outdoors and also getting adults outdoors and today I have with me two people who feel equally feel this is equally important. We have Nick Charov, who is the President of Wells Reserve at Laudholm and has worked in science, education and environmental Preservation for nearly a decade. He's no stranger to Maine and has spent more than 30 summers exploring the tide pools, pines, and breakwaters on Peaks Island. He lives with his wife and two sons in South Portland. Nice to have you with us.

Nik Charov:

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We also have Dr. David Johnson, who is a local orthopedic surgeon and Laudholm Trust board member. He is a former Outward Bound instructor and teacher of environmental science. David lives with his wife and four children in Kennebunkport. Good to have you in today.

Dr. David Johnson:

Thank you, Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So we're all individuals who love to be outside, and Wells Reserve at Laudholm is a perfect place for that. For people who are listening, tell us a little bit more about the Wells Reserve at Lotholm.

Nik Charov:

The Wells Reserve, for short, is a nature center, an outdoor recreation site, a coastal science research facility, and a National Historic Register place. I think of it as a metaphor, really. It's an estuarine research reserve, and that means that it encompasses the place where three rivers actually come into the sea, into the Gulf of Maine. And these estuaries are freshwater rivers coming down to the saltwater sea. And so they mix. And so this dynamic place on the coast, where certainly the tide's going in all day, but the waters are mixing, is home to migrating birds, to rare plants, to some very rare and unique individuals as well, some of our scientists who work there and our researchers. And it's all there to preserve and save this place, but also use it as a platform to teach people about coastal science, about climate change, and about history as well. It's an old 18th century farm that's been restored, and that's our headquarters at the Lotholme Farm campus. And I think with this salt and fresh, this past and present, with art and science all mixing together, it's like yin yang. It gives us the opportunity to talk about so many things and teach people so much. Plus, there are seven miles of trails, a beautiful pristine beach and forests, fields, all kinds of places to walk and recreate.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Nick, you've spent some time not in Maine doing some very interesting urban activities, in fact, having to do with the New York Restoration Project. So you are doing. You were greening up the city before you came to Maine?

Nik Charov:

Yeah, I worked for Bette Midler for almost five years. New York Restoration Project is her nonprofit. Bette grew up in Hawaii. She wants everywhere to look like Hawaii. But as a singer, actress, entertainer, she spent most of her life in Los Angeles and New York, two places that aren't really renowned for their nature but she's a passionate, committed, committable, sometimes woman. And she wants everywhere to be as green as the plants here in the studio, even eventually Hawaii. So we were building gardens, we were planting trees. We launched a campaign called Million Trees nyc, which was an effort begun under the Bloomberg administration to plant a million trees across all five boroughs. So this is not just Manhattan, but is really just fitting in greenery wherever we could. And when I left back in 2012 and moved up here to Maine, we were just past the 600,000 mark and I think they're now getting close to finishing it as well. So it just, I've been doing this, I've been thinking about this, I've been out there preaching it, and also getting my hands dirty and putting in trees and gardens for a while.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Dr. Johnson, you're a fellowship trained orthopedic subspecialist. You completed a fellowship in shoulder and upper extremity surgery in San Francisco, and you do a lot of work with sports medicine. Why is the green outdoors and getting people into the green outdoors so important to you?

Dr. David Johnson:

I think it began a long time before I became an orthopedic surgeon. So out of college I went and was a teacher for environmental science and I worked for Knolls National Outdoor Leadership School. And then I worked for actually New York City, Outward Bound, which is, I didn't know this, but similar to what Nick did, we took inner city youth and took them on Outward Bound experiences to expose them to the outdoors. So, you know, getting people outdoors, educating about the outdoors was important to me long before I came became an orthopedic surgeon. And now that I'm an orthopedic surgeon taking care of athletes, I see the benefits of activity, exercise and the vigor it brings people, the psychological well being and it's all even better enhanced when it's in a great environment.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You are an avid skier and a kayaker. Have you been able to find the time to do these activities while you're also raising your four children and being a team doctor for Kennebunk and Biddeford and having a medical practice?

Dr. David Johnson:

Yeah, I think that's one of the appeals that Maine has had for us. We came here about six years ago and we were frustrated that I couldn't find those things for myself or for my family readily. Where we were living in sort of a suburban environment. So one of the great things about Kennebunkport where we live is we're half a mile from the ocean. And for instance, my son and I will go out and go sunset Surfing and sort of watch the stars come up. And it's been amazing to me, like, the neat effect living in that town kind of has for us. But then also those miniature experiences like that where he literally has a star that he'll watch come up on the horizon, and he calls it his own star. And I just think you can't do that very many places.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Nick, you originally, you have your undergraduate degree from Stanford. So you've been across the country. In fact, both of you have New York ties, you have San Francisco ties, and both of you chose to come back to Maine. What is so special about this state?

Nik Charov:

I loved California, but for the same reasons I love Maine. I mean, there was the variety that was built on the natural world, the experiences of ocean and mountain, forest and field. And I'd always come to Maine as a kid and spent time on Peaks Island. My grandparents had a cabin up there from the late 60s onward. I didn't know you could actually work up here and spend time all four seasons. After our second winter here, I'm now beginning to wonder about that second part. But I just. I'm overwhelmed constantly and especially with having kids and hearing Dave talk about taking his son surfing. I mean, that's. That's why I was working in Manhattan every day. I was taking the subway in with, you know, seeing a few hundred thousand people going through Penn Station every day. And that's. That's more people than I'll see in my entire life up here in Maine for the rest of my days. I was tired of just the impinging concrete all the time, the attention that's just getting drawn by neon and horns and filth blowing down those canyons in the city. And up here, it's just the exact opposite. And this is where I want my kids to be, where my wife and I to be. And my grandparents are also up in Topsham as well. They retired up there. So this is where the family has gravitated and where we're gonna stay, just because it's got everything we want. And I couldn't ask for a better place to live. And I'm evangelizing it to all my friends.

Dr. David Johnson:

I mean, I couldn't agree more. I think I started to tell you we moved up here looking for sort of a better lifestyle. And I think we were overly pleasantly surprised. I trained up here at Maine Med for about three or four months when I was in medical school, so I had some exposure to poison Portland. And then a job opportunity came up in the greater Kennebunk area, and we Came up here hoping that we would sort of find something that fit our lifestyles well. And it's been magnificent. And everyone's. My family's blossomed, and I think a lot of it is just the integration of how much people here live with the outdoors and integrate it into their life. And it's an important part of what they do for work and play and function. And that's just a great integration that should be part of life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What did each of your families do to encourage you to work with the outdoors when you were growing up? Because that seems like an important influence is what our parents do with us when we're younger. And each of you had your experience in environmental education. So there must have been something within your families that was a priority.

Dr. David Johnson:

I think, with my parents. I was raised in New York City, ironically, but neither of my parents came from New York City. And for them, you could always see the sort of their real personalities come out. When we left New York and we had a country home in Cape Cod, and whenever we were there, you could see them transform into the people they wanted to be and therefore the people I wanted to be with. And whenever they talked about what was fun to do in their free time, it was always fishing and hiking, walking the beach and sailing and things like that. It was never the vibe and culture of New York City. Even though they sort of enjoyed that, that wasn't what lit them up.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how about you, Nick?

Nik Charov:

My whole family's from New York. First generation Russians. My grandparents all came over in the 50s, but especially those grandparents that bought the place on Peaks Island. They first moved out of New York City to the Berkshires, and it was really my grandmother who was a gardener, a composter, and they were living on 11 acres up in the Berkshires and really homesteading it. And it was going up there as a kid on the weekends. We lived in a rural town, my parents and I, in Connecticut, in eastern Connecticut, and we backed up onto a lot of state preserves. So I was out in the woods a lot, but not nearly as much as when I was out with my grandmother in her garden. And now that I've got a garden of my own, I'm really getting excited about taking that down through the generations and getting my kids hands into the ground as well. It was funny I got up here, actually. I think when I was in New York, I read Helen and Scott Nearing's book, and I got so excited about the possibility of having my own, you know, living off the land, building stone walls, composting all this stuff. And I went and showed my grandparents. I was like, this sounds exactly like what you guys did, both in the Berkshires and then in Maine. And they pulled out this tattered copy, you know, that was from the late 50s that they had been reading kind of in their similar position, you know, in their, I guess, late, late 30s in the city. And that's. That's what they wanted to do, too. So it's just. I feel it's just being outside and getting outside is just a continuation of what I think all of us want to do. It's funny that there's been this kind of movement to urbanization, you know, especially during the Industrial Revolution. We've all kind of collected in these cities and farms have emptied out and now the pendulum swinging back, at least for, you know, some of us, but I think more and more of us. And it's this, you know, maybe it's this drive, the biophilia drive to get back into nature that cities can't offer us everything we want. Although the Chinese food is definitely something I miss.

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Dr. Lisa Belisle:

If you are a healthcare provider and listener of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast, we invite you to the second lecture in our Apothecary by Design Lecture series to be held at 75 Market street here in Portland. Our second lecture is with Dr. Kristin McKelvin, a Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast guest and expert in the field of Lyme Disease. She will be holding a discussion of Lyme disease and her naturopathic medical view on the disease on May 28 at 5pm at her talk, Dr. McKelvin will review general tick borne illness information including diagnosis and testing and and treatment options using both conventional and complementary therapies. This is a great opportunity for practitioners to gather reputable resources for use in their clinical practice. Visit apothecarybydesign.com for more information. I hope to see you there. Wells Reserve is one of the ways that you get people interested. I think that, you know, I grew up in Maine, I grew up in Yarmouth and I did a lot of outdoor activities when I was growing up. But I think I almost, I don't think I recognized what we had here. It was only when I went to organizations that were doing island education or were specifically focused on doing education about the outdoors that I really started to comprehend where I lived and what was going on. What are some of the activities that the Wells Reserve is doing for people like me who are growing up in Maine and really want a little bit more insight?

Nik Charov:

I have to say. I mean, I think we're still a really unknown or relatively unknown jewel down there in Wells on the Kennebunk border. We've got just this summer alone. There's the big Tour de Cure bike ride that's based there. Coming up in June. We've got weekly walks, guided and self guided tours throughout the 2200 acres. There are wellness walks that combine Both walking and coming back and doing some fresh air painting, continuous lectures both inside and outside. We've got a garden space that we're working with the York County Cooperative Extension on and the master gardeners to do garden education.

Dr. David Johnson:

There's estuary tours there, which I think is fascinating. And I'm a new board member and it's something I'm sort of chomping at the bit to do because it's one of the natural focuses of that place. But they have a rack of kayaks and you can get a guide that'll take you through the estuary and point out all of what it does, or you can do it yourself. So just one thing I'm eager to do.

Nik Charov:

Yeah. They're booking those kayak trips up online@wellsreserve.org every week now. We've also got summer camps with the kids and getting them out there. We have large festivals, usually at the end of September, is our largest festival, the Pumpkin Fiddle Festival, at the last weekend, last Saturday of September. But there's a big crafts festival that just gets a lot of people to the main campus.

Dr. David Johnson:

Periodic talks. So there's been a couple really neat talks on climate change. In the next couple days, I'm giving a talk on the effect of being outdoors and exercise on wellness in the human body. And those things continue throughout the year.

Nik Charov:

And then lastly, I think this summer we're expanding our concert series. I'm a big proponent of the arts, especially arts with the purpose of educating and connecting people with nature. So our concert series in our historic barn, seats only about 100 people, all wood, very dark and kind of cozy place, will have the DiPonte String Quartet, a couple pianists, a blues band, Thursdays in July. And then Musanobu Ikemaya is coming down from Bar Harbor. He's a pianist who also is a permaculture enthusiast. So he does a slideshow and a piano performance. And then even during leaf peeping season, we're doing a kind of autumnal concert as well on Columbus Day weekend. So it's just any way we can get people there, connect them with the place and its past and its current activities, the research and the science, the education, the climate change communication. Any way we can get people connected to that is what we're trying to do there. I've only been there less than two years, so right now I'm just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks and bringing on enthusiastic, excited and really expert people like Dave here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, speaking of being an expert, Dr. Johnson, you mentioned that you're giving a talk on the impact of being outdoors on human beings. What is some of the research behind that?

Dr. David Johnson:

I'm sure you're familiar with a lot of it. And I think part of it is really nicely encapsulated in Richard Love's book, which is Last Child in the Woods. And he sort of talks about this unfortunate observation over the last several decades where Americans, and particularly our kids are spending less and less time outdoors. And he coins this term called like nature deficit disorder. And that's sort of looking at the negative aspect of how America's drifted away from the outdoors. So then you sort of flip the coin and you say, well, what's the positive benefit? And I think there's been lots and lots of studies showing objective effects on psychological well being, concentration, happiness reflected in part by kids test scores. If you look at kids who are not exposed to the outdoors and compare them to like minded groups who are, you can really directly measure how much better people do in terms of their academic success, their perception of their well being, their happiness. And then that seems to translate into very direct physiological effects like, like lower blood pressure, lower heart rate, decreased dependence on medication for kids who are on medications already. So there's a whole host of, first of all psychological and then physical things that interplay from even very limited exposures to the outdoors. If it happens on any kind of consistent basis.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What do you notice about each of your sets of children? You have four children and you have two children, so when you bring them outside. You mentioned you go out with your son sometimes. Kayaking?

Dr. David Johnson:

Yeah. Surfing, actually. Surfing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay, so what do you notice when you come back from these outdoor adventures?

Dr. David Johnson:

I think it's one of the best, most intense bonds that we share as a parent and a child because we both sort of are focusing on the same thing. We're not distracted by all the things that can bombard us. And we're both sort of getting this peacefulness at the same time that we're sharing. So when we step away from that, I always feel like it brings out the best in both of us. We're interacting in the most positive way. There's no harping on him for what I want him to be as a kid. There's no, you know, arguing back to me about what I'm telling him, dad. And it's all about talking about the star that rose over the water line or you know, did you see me catch that wave? Or geez, I really wiped out. And it's all the way that we interact with nature. And it's this really calm and fun beautiful bond.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What do you notice with your children, Nick?

Nik Charov:

Even in New York, we were, if we weren't leaving the city every weekend for the last couple years that we were there to go to my mother's house up in the country, we were meeting up with a group of friends and walking through some of the wilder parks in the five boroughs and just letting the kids go out in front of us and keep them maybe in eyesight, but even sometimes not. And you know, just to have that freedom for them, that opportunity for them to go and explore and climb, you know, fallen down trees and crawl under things and get really dirty and just get them out there. I'm dreading the programmed years. We already go to swim lessons on a Saturday morning and I hate going inside on a Saturday morning. But learning to swim is pretty important if we want to go surfing eventually. But you know, just looking at my future and seeing how can I avoid some of the sitting on the bleachers every morning and afternoon and every weekend, how can I continue to instill and inculcate in my boys just the fact that they can get outside, get energetic, get moving and that I can do it with them. And as Dave is saying, to just be out there, spending time together in the non judgmental, the non cheering, just being out there, I think is the real opportunity it gives us. And when they get back from these places, from a day at the beach, from a day at the Wells Reserve, the boys will come down and they're starting to learn their way around the place. And I just let them out the door and say, see you in an hour. They come back and they're, they're tired first of all, which, when you've got a three year old, anything that, that really wipes them out is a godsend. But they're also, their, their skin is glowing. You know, they're, they've found some bugs, you know, that they've brought back. They're just, they're out there, they're, they're curious, they're attentive and I don't know, to me that's what wellness looks like in a little package is these little things running back and just saying, look, there's a bird's nest that we tipped over and knocked all the eggs out of. We'll talk about that later. But they're out there.

Dr. David Johnson:

If I sort of think back about what my kids remember and what they bring up in sort of excited conversation, there's a very common theme that there are outdoor experience. It was a great moment skiing, or it was a moment when they caught the best fish of their life, or it was something that intrigued them. And that's sort of a repeated theme that you see, that that's really what sticks in their head.

Nik Charov:

In Maine, we don't see this epidemic. I hope not, anyway. I ask you doctors whether we do. But certainly in New York City, just coming up against kids all the time who are latchkey kids or, you know, glued to their screens or their bags of Fritos, and it's like, listen, there's. Even in New York City, there are places that you can find and do this, and the effects were obvious.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And Nick, where can people find out more about the Wells Reserve at Lotholme?

Nik Charov:

We're on Facebook. We're on the web Facebook. It's Wells Reserve. And just our URL is wellsreserve.org A lot of stuff coming up this summer. A lot of programs, a lot of outdoor activities, a lot of what we do there every day. We're just trying to give more and more to the public.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I appreciate the work that you're doing. We interview a lot of guests, and we don't always see the passion the two of you have shown for the impact of the outdoors upon the self and the being. So I suspect that people who are listening will want to spend some time at the Wells Reserve, learning more about what you do or maybe going surfing and looking for the star on the horizon. I encourage people to look into the Wells Reserve and to being outdoors in any way. As we begin this summer here in Maine, we've been speaking with Nick Charov, the president of Wells Reserve at Laudholm, and Dr. David Johnson, a local orthopedic surgeon and Laudholm Trust board member. Thanks so much for taking time out of your day and being with us today.

Nik Charov:

Thanks so much. See you out there.

Dr. David Johnson:

Thank you, Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

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Dr. Lisa Belisle:

if you have small children or if you don't and you just like to walk, you may have spent time at Gilsland Farm in Falmouth, which is part of the Maine Audubon Society. Today we have with us Eric Topper, who is the director of education at the Maine Audubon Society. Eric Topper manages youth and adult education programs throughout the state, including pre K programs, vacation and summer camps, school partnership programs, and adult learning and trips. Eric lives in Portland with his wife and two children. Thanks for coming in today.

Eric Topper:

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Eric, you're not initially, you weren't born a Mainer, let's say.

Eric Topper:

That's true. That's true. I was raised in the Midwest and ended up in Portland about 12 years ago now.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you spent some time in Boston right before that?

Eric Topper:

I did. I lived in Boston. My wife was in grad school in Boston and we lived there for two years. I worked there for Thompson Island, Outward Bound on an island in the middle of Boston harbor, and had a wonderful exciting commute to work every day and also ran programs in the mountains in New Hampshire. So sort of had the best of both worlds, living in the city and working in a place in places that took me out of the city frequently. And then when we finished up grad school in Boston, we decided that Maine, Maine was going to be the next place and that was going to be the place we were going to settle down and we're not leaving.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what was it about Maine that kind of drew you to toward it?

Eric Topper:

I think for me, the mix of sort of big city culture, New England culture, combined with incredible access to the outdoors and particularly the idea that I could enjoy a sort of ocean environment and a mountain environment at the same time, but then have a great meal sort of that evening, which was incredibly, to be able to do that all in one place was really exciting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, you Also, as you mentioned, you work for Outward Bound. That wasn't necessarily a place you could have a great meal.

Eric Topper:

No, not Outward Bound is not known for its food, although the base camp there were. There are certainly base camp chefs and cooks that are cringing when they hear me say that. And that was something to look forward to. But. Yeah, that some of the best parts at Outward Bound were being done with a course and going out to. Out to a restaurant after, of course.

Nik Charov:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what got you interested in outdoor education?

Eric Topper:

So I was. My parents, from a very early age, cultivated an appreciation and a respect for the environment, wildlife, you know, animals, that sort of thing. We always had pets growing up. And then I, in my sort of early teenage years and my kind of quest for adventure and those sorts of things. I ended up on an Outward Bound course as a student when I was first 14 and found there really sort of a combination of things that have sort of stayed with me throughout my life. Both the environment and the natural beauty of being in scenic places. Also the sense of adventure and sort of the adrenaline possibilities of rock climbing and paddling and things like that. But also the sort of idea that those places were also places and ways that one could do soul searching and character development and things like that. And so that really having that. Having experienced that as a student and as a sort of recipient that I decided that I was going to at least spend the early part of my career after college sort of doing that. I thought I could do a really. I like the idea of leadership and I like the idea of, you know, again, teaching responsible risk taking and things like that. And I've just. I've ended up staying there and. And really finding wonderful places to sort of stretch myself professionally. But at the same time, scratch kind of personal itches around, you know, being in beautiful places and doing fun things.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We had Eric Denny from Outward Bound on our show not too long ago.

Eric Topper:

Another Outward Bound Eric.

Dr. David Johnson:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And he was talking about, I guess, the more extreme nature of what Outward Bound often does and the solo trips and how this is an important part of Outward Bound. And I love this idea. And it's something that I've experienced myself as being very important. What I also like is the proximity of Gilson Farm and the Maine Audubon Society to people who may not have access, they may not have the ability to go out and spend time on an Outward Bound adventure.

Eric Topper:

Absolutely. I think. I think Maine Audubon and lots of Audubon societies sort of nationwide have it figured out in terms of bringing nature and the wilderness and wildlife and habitat into communities. I think places like Outward Mound and other, they're wonderful resources, particularly in Maine, to kind of go somewhere and do amazing things in beautiful places. But I think the community resources like Maine Audubon are just as important where. Where people have really immediate access to these same sorts of opportunities to form values and experience things around them and that sort of thing really close. And so Falmouth, the Gilson Farm, I think, can be that resource for Portland. And Portland has done, I think, a fairly good job protecting open spaces. We have Deering Oaks and Baxter woods and all these wonderful resources here within city limits. But what's missing from those places is the interpretive support to go along with that that Gilson Farm provides. We have staff. There's a staff naturalist there that you can talk to and say, I just saw this. What is that all about? Is that right for this time of year? And then that person can go check with conservation biologists next door and those sorts of things and really kind of round out the experience. And then at the same time, we're pointing. Pouring interpretive resources into that facility to make it speak better to those values. So I think it's a really, as you said, it's a really important resource to have in the community. And we have these. We have a center near Bangor as well, with the same kind of focus, a seasonal center at Scarborough Marsh, and then sanctuaries all over the place. And that's the idea, is to get to give access to people to those same resources.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I haven't been to the center in Bangor, but I have been to the one at Scarborough Marsh, and I've also been to the one in Falmouth. The places I've been to that are Maine Audubon Society can be appropriate to really a broad range of ages and educational backgrounds and understandings. I think that's really interesting and important.

Eric Topper:

We consider that our job, that it's, you know, that as we get closer to these communities and we work directly with these communities that we're here to serve, the idea is to find kind of lifelong learning opportunities for the citizens in those communities. And each kind of age group and demographic has its own sort of priority area. And the reason why it's critically important. So I think Maine Audubon at each of our centers, and particularly where we are staffed and have programs, which is sort of the defining characteristics of a center for us, it's important that it's all ages that we don't have a center that is. Oh, that's the adult place or that's the, the kid place that we have to do all of the above to do it, to do it fully.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The goal of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour is to help make connections between the health of the individual and the health of the community. The goal of Ted Carter Inspired Landscapes is to deepen our appreciation for the natural world. Here to speak with us today is

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast understands the importance of the health of the body, mind and spirit. Here to talk about the health of the body is Jim Greatorex of Premier Sports Health, a division of Black Bear Medical.

Eric Topper:

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Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I believe I was on a school field trip with one of my children and it was the Scarborough Marsh experience, which it was very interesting because it's very close to the road and so there's cars going by and not too far away there are birds and trees and swamp grasses and things that I'm sure I'm not scientifically labeling very well. I think that when we were associated with falmouth we did something with owls at some point. There's some very interesting thing about owl excrement actually is something that I really remember. What are some of the natural, one of the things that seem to fascinate kids the most in adults? What are some of the birds and animals and natural resources?

Eric Topper:

I think it's for me it seems to be a little bit age specific in terms of kind of what the hook is for the particular population. But I think, I think one common theme that I think Maine Audubon has really tapped into that you mentioned as well is this notion of sort of starting with the wildlife, starting with the critters, the animals and the owls, the birds that live in the marsh, those sorts of things. And that's I think what becomes the draw and sort of the destination for people and a reason to go out into these things places and then and then for us to provide access. So one of the ways we do this is we we maintain a huge collection of taxidermy mounts. So essentially stuffed animals that of and our priority is Maine animals that people are going to interact that would be fortunate enough to interact with in Maine and see here in Maine and an idea for people to see those up close in full size and those sorts of things and get more familiar with them that way. And that works really well for the kid programs, for the school programs, preschool and things like that. And then you mentioned the live owl shows we do periodically three times a year more so we do live animal shows at Gilson Farm. The idea being that these experts in wildlife rehab and sort of wildlife interaction places like the center for Wildlife down in York, come up and actually in a classroom get to let people see and sort of interact with live, live animals that are in captivity but are native species. And so that becomes the draw, I think. And different sort of populations go different places. The kids want to go see more animals. And so that's going to get them outside and that's going to get them to sort of pursue curriculum and opportunities to see more animals. Adults can sort of zero right into, okay, what are the systems that it takes to support these animals? And I get it. And the animals are endearing, but I can think, I think on a much bigger scale and I can think about the marsh, Scarborough Marsh, for example, as an ecosystem, and I understand that now. And the animals are nice little hooks, but I can go to a place that's much loftier. And so that's what we've tried to do. We've tried to sort of. I think that all of us in the environmental sciences field, all of us in the outdoor education field, we're confronted with the crisis of our time, climate change and, and so particularly figuring out specific hooks for specific age groups and population groups where we can get people quickly to sort of buy into that, what they can do individually and as communities and in much larger groups, what they can do to deal with those problems and those challenges. And so again, I think Maine Audubon has a great slant on that and starting with the animals, keeping it exciting and real and giving it a face and a mouth and a nose and those sorts of things. Things is really helpful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have two children.

Eric Topper:

That's right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How old are they?

Eric Topper:

I have a four year old son and a two year old daughter.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what do they like to do when they go to the Audubon Society?

Eric Topper:

So they My, this has been really an exciting opportunity for me since I've worked there. This has been my first, I've been in education my entire career and this is my first opportunity to sort of bring it home. And my kids participate in programs at Maine Audubon and then we also go there periodically when family members are in town and those sorts of things. And so for my kids, it's been really fascinating to watch their sort of development through the slant of this one theme, this wildlife and habitat theme. And my son in particular, my four year old is right sort of on that cusp where unstructured kind of opportunities for exploration, exploration are really important. But also he's getting to that point where he can really. His. His brain is starting to organize things and look at characteristics and things like that. But then also he's in that place where he's looking to apply skills that he's developing to particular areas of content. So for example, yesterday at his preschool, his teacher reported that this was sort of off the charts and nobody had done this yet that he asked her. She suggested that he essentially he measured. He drew a bird and then asked to measure it. And she gave him a ruler and he measured it and reported that it was seven inches long. She asked him if he wanted to measure in centimeters or inches and he reported that it was seven inches long. And I believe she was just shocked by that and said what do you all do at home? Are you doing, Are you measuring things and things like that? And my all. The only thing I could put that relate that to was his learning about animals according to a structure in the preschool program at Maine Audubon, which stimulated him to come home and ask me to look at field guides and read him characteristics of different birds. I think it was and started getting familiar with this one's 7 inches and this one's 12 inches and those sorts of things. And then as actually gone out and sought to apply that, which is pretty incredible. And I think those of us in the field of environmental education realize how important our field is for science and technology and engineering and math, the STEM sort of subject areas. And this was a real world opportunity for me to see this at home. And so I think that the preschool programs are neat because that age group really benefits from, as I said, unstructured sort of exploration, that sense of discovery where we just sort of honor it, but then also really getting them used to a structure of discovery. So, okay, each class is going to follow the same general sort of plan. First we're going to have the story and then we're going to have some clues and then we're going to guess the mystery animal for today. And the kids get used to following that same structure and they start looking forward to those mystery animals. And then they want to go home and actually sort of anticipate what that mystery animal is and learn about related mystery animals. And it's just really neat to see that sort of snowball take root where, you know, in an eight week program there may be eight mystery animals. And so they'll learn little facts, fun facts about 8 different animals. But to see that again snowball into. But they'll also get familiar with Measuring things and identifying and characterizing and, and that sort of thing. So that's been really fun for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what do you do with your 2 year old?

Eric Topper:

The 2 year old is still very much in that place of learning. I feel like she's in that age where she's starting to form values, she's starting to gain empathy, she's starting to do those things. And I feel like her exposure mostly at home and a little bit at school to books that are sort of trying to teach those themes and stories about sharing and those sorts of things. But then also that combined with what she's. The empathy that she's sort of, that's sort of getting taught more subtly at Maine Audubon where she's learning about different critters that are all sharing the area around this. And she doesn't realize, I don't think that these animals that you're learning about are specific to here. But you know, when we go to Florida she's able to point at, she knows, oh, that's a squirrel. I know that, you know, so I think it's a really varied mixed bag and it's been really neat to see that at different developmental parts. And so one of the great things that I benefited from as well is both kids participate in the program together. So we have a pre K family program where the idea is a caregiver. So in my case it's our babysitter takes our kids there on Tuesday mornings for an hour. Both kids participate with her. They do a crafts project, they do reading, they do an outdoor exploration. Today I think they're making SAP, they're learning to tap a tree and Kim's going to teach them how to boil SAP and what that process is. And I know we're going to have a super fun conversation tomorrow when we're eating our waffles and sharing maple syrup. So that's been a really, really fun experience. And then Maine Audubon also offers drop off programs for pre K aged kids. Just sort of three hours one day a week where the students are opportunity and those kids go a little bit deeper. And then we get into the K5 curriculum which is much deeper than that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you have summer camp programs as well?

Eric Topper:

We do, yeah. So the idea is that we have school based programs during the school year and then each time school is out. So school vacation weeks during the school year and then summer vacation we flip over to sort of a camp model which is all day, sort of, you know, different things, themes for the day where kids are going out and playing games and doing explorations and that sort of thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What I found was it was easier when my children. Well, first of all, it was much easier when my children didn't have driver's licenses. So I would say we're going to go somewhere and they would go and generally they would like the animals. And now that my kids are older, it's not as easy to get them as involved as they once were. Although I have a senior in high school, she's taking AP Environmental sciences, so that's helpful. I have a child in college, he's biology, zoology major, so that's helpful too. But that I still think that teenage, those teenage early adult years can be a little bit more of a challenge. I know you have a school program that goes all the way up through. How do you specifically work with the teenagers?

Eric Topper:

I think most of our success working with teenagers has been through the teachers in particular and sort of guiding teachers to come up with engaging sort of curriculum that's both rigorous and engaging and really hands on, I think is critical to those age groups. I also think those age groups benefit a lot from the sort of destination and if you can add in some opportunities for sort of adrenaline and those sorts of things and challenge, those are, I feel like really healthy ways to, to do that with those age groups. Maine Audubon again has focused largely on the teachers. I think we're working more on developing service learning programs and citizen science programs which are really, really important opportunities as well. I think one of the things that's exciting for me as an educator and dealing with sort of just changes in the way things are and the way the world works is the combination. And I'm particularly excited for middle school and high school age kids to be able to do this is that be able to merge sort of field experience with data collection and sharing online. Just the wealth of resources right now that I'm sure your kids are using all the time and those of us that are older are still learning to catch up. And it's not a part of our sort of school experience yet or wasn't earlier and now kids are getting that apart. But, but there are all these amazing resources to track where kids can go out and do work in the field and then bring that back to the classroom and look at those, enter those data and look at them and participate in projects and Skype with classrooms around the world and all kinds of wonderful opportunities that are very exciting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How do you keep adults interested?

Eric Topper:

I think adults are that I think there's a part of it that starts with the wildlife. So I think we do tremendous. We have tremendous success in our live animal shows with the adult market. So I think that's additional appeal that having a room full of live animals is a draw for all ages. I think the other big pieces are part of the destinations, giving people sort of packaged opportunities where they can have a really deep experience in a particular area. And then I think just the community, various community resources in terms of workshops and things like that. Scheduling, the hardest part with adults, I think, has to do with scheduling and logistics. What's the ideal sort of Northern Maine immersion? Is it four days? Is that too long? Does it lower the appeal, those sorts of things? So that's the tricky part there. But I think we've done a really good job sort of offering the array and saying, if you can come for four hours and you can only make it as far as Gilson Farm, let's maximize your time there on a particular area. And if you can spare four days to come up to Borstone Mountain near Greenville, and we can sort of take it a little, spend some, add some time just sitting on the porch, reflecting on your experience as well. So I think the whole gamut there. The other really exciting part for adults, and I mentioned this with the teens as well, is citizen science. So the idea, which I think Maine Audubon is unique in that sense of our blend of conservation and education. But citizen science, the idea that people can get out and contribute scientific data to major initiatives, and this is a great way, again, utilizing the Internet and other resources where a scientist can maximize their sort of study, the sort of scope of their study area, by mobilizing volunteers. Maine Audubon's done this for many years with the loon count, the annual loon count, getting property owners who live on lakes to count how many loons you hear and report that. And we can get a pretty good handle on what we have for resources in the state. And then you look at that over time and you figure out how we're doing so, and we've mobilized all kinds of other spinoff citizen science projects. And then there are national and international citizen science projects as well. And that's a great opportunity for adults, and particularly adults, sort of heads of family as well, that you can engage the family and you all participate in this project. So those are really exciting. I think that that's the neat part, is adults want to do something and they want to move to action. And we've sort of tried to celebrate that and capitalize on that a little bit.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Eric how do people find out about the various activities of the Maine Audubon Society?

Eric Topper:

Our website has come has made leaps and bounds in the past couple years. We put a lot of energy into making sure that becomes a really rich resource and that we prioritize right there on the landing page what programs are upcoming and what are opportunities to get people directly involved and working alongside of us. And so the website is www.mainautubon.org and then certainly any of our centers Gilsland Farm here in Falmouth, the Fields Pond Audubon center up in Holden, Maine just outside of Bangor, Borstone Mountain in Elliottsville Plantation and then Scarborough Marsh Audubon center in Scarborough Marsh to open during the summer. Those are great places to just stop in and see what's going on. We have what's going on listed on the wall and people to chat about it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've been speaking with Eric Topper, who is the Director of Education at the Maine Audubon Society. Eric, thank you so much for continuing to bring really important information about the outdoors to the children and adults of the State of Maine.

Eric Topper:

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 141 outdoor education. Our guests have included Nick Charoff, Dr. David Johnson and Eric Topper. For more information on our guests and extended interviews, visit drlisabelisle.com the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is downloadable for free on itunes. For a preview of each week's show, sign up for our E Newsletter and like our doctoralisa Facebook page, follow me on Twitter and on Instagram. As bountifulone we love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also, let our sponsors know that you've heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our outdoor education show this thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.