Patient-Centered Wellness #146

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

We need teachers, and a doctor is first and foremost a teacher. Not a prescriber, not a diagnostician. They're a teacher. It is so delightful to see in a person's face understanding. And now they can deal with this painful issue because they know what it means and they feel reassured and acknowledged and then we can do something with it to teach people how to manage it and understand it and transform it inside themselves.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

To me, it's very self empowering. It's an incredibly optimistic message that people can learn this and really better understand themselves and act on it. And I think our doctors, as doctors, we need to facilitate that partnership and really put the power back in the person who needs to make these diet and fitness changes.

Patty Hagge:

You know, I'm totally in control and I get to make decisions and you know, and I know what I need. It feels good and I feel like he's supporting me and when something happens, like I feel like, wait, why am I randomly gaining weight? You know, we can look at the blood work and we can tweak it and figure it out. So it's great. I like that way of working. It makes sense to me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 146, Patient Centered Wellness, airing for the first time on Sunday, June 29, 2014. Patient Centered Wellness is considered the wave of the future, but it is also deeply rooted in the past and in healing traditions such as acupuncture, osteopathic manipulation and naturopathic medicine. Today we speak with two physicians who are integrating these traditions into their practices and helping patients create their own wellness path. Join our conversations with Dr. Ralph Teemi, Dr. Richard Maurer, and Dr. Maurer's longtime patient and writer Patty Hagee and learn more about their unique approaches to patient centered care. Thank you for joining us

Patty Hagge:

as I've

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

mentioned on the show before, one of the most important, important things to physicians and healthcare practitioners really is the relationship with their teachers. And one of the most important things to me has been my relationship with my teachers. So I'm always pleased to have people in the studio that I respect greatly as practitioners in the field, but also as my teachers. Today we have with us Dr. Ralph Teemi, who is an osteopathic doctor who practices in Falmouth. Dr. Teemi has been a part of the Integrative Medicine program with the family Medicine department at Maine Medical center and has done a lot of teaching in the community, and not the least of which has occurred with his own patients. So thanks for coming in and talking with me today.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

Thank you, Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Dr. Timi, you are not what I would call a standard doctor. I'm trained in family medicine. You're trained in osteopathic medicine, but you also have acupuncture in your background. You're truly an integrative doctor. Can you tell me a little bit about what you do and how you got there?

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

I think I'll start by trying to go into how I got there.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Great.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

And actually, I'd have to look at that retrospectively rather than I didn't make choices to get there. It's as I arrived, I got to look back and see maybe how I had been formed to fulfill this position. So one of the things that the osteopathic profession, I think, began in a more rural area than an urban area. And I find for myself that that's a part of my history. I grew up on a farm in Wisconsin, and it was a dairy farm. And my father worked very hard. He didn't have the opportunity to have much education, but he was a very smart, brilliant, respected man. And one of the things that happened with his work was he ended up having a bad back. And it happened to occur when I was the right size. So one of the things that he had me do was walk his back. In retrospect, I found out that I was doing one of the oldest forms of treatment that has been recorded, oftentimes by children or women. So I did that. And he was very respected by his neighbors. And because most farmers would rather not spend money, if they had a problem with their cows, they would call my dad first, and if he couldn't advise them, then they would call the vet. And there were times where I would help him deliver calves. And when I did that, he would have me take a hold of the ropes that he attached on the calf and he would vert the calf within the uterus and position it so it could come out. But by then the cows were usually exhausted. And he would help me put a little bit of tension on the ropes to actually help pull the calf. And in the process, I had to develop a very gentle, mindful touch, which again made me, in retrospect, think he was training me to be a good osteopath. And of course he didn't know that, but life just happened. I went through a period where I thought I might be a teacher and then I thought I might be a doctor. And then I decided that I didn't want to be a doctor because what I saw didn't inspire me. So I withdrew from pre med and had all of these credits and I thought, well, I'll get a degree in pharmacy. And I did. In the process, I happened to do an externship at a VA hospital that had a visiting physician from the UK. And this is back in the 70s, right around the time that Nixon went to China, so there wasn't really acupuncture at all around yet. And I had the opportunity to see a physician do acupuncture in the VA hospital because he came from Great Britain. And it really intrigued me. And then I continued my training and got my degree in pharmacy. Didn't practice it. Even though I have great respect for pharmacists, I still do. Then, I think because of my own inner search, I ended up getting some graduate work, both in counseling and in psychology. And in the process, I really felt like I needed to be able to also touch people. And by a set of odd circumstances, I ended up having someone recommend to me that I ought to train to become an acupuncturist. And as soon as they said it, I felt like a jolt of lightning or a light bulb go on inside of my mind. And I knew I was supposed to do that. And that happened. That piece of information came to me on a Sunday in Hawaii. And on Monday I searched the three schools in Hawaii for acupuncture. And the first two didn't fit. And that afternoon at 4:00 clock roughly, I walked into the third school and there was this older kind of frumpy Chinese lady sitting there who I thought might be the secretary for the school. And I approached her with a question about acupuncture and schooling there, and she started asking me questions. And we started going back and forth for a few minutes. I was curious why she asked me so many questions. And finally she said, you very lucky. And that was Roughly the phrase she used, she said, we have a class that starts tonight at 6 o'. Clock. Your paperwork can catch up, you come tonight. So I began that night and I had really been in Hawaii just a short period of time and one of the members in the class was a Vietnamese monk. And he introduced himself to me at a break and asked where I was staying. And I told him I had just arrived in the past week and I was staying in a hotel. And he said that was no good. And he invited me to come and live at the temple. And I've always had that part of my personality was important to me also. And so although I was not a, I am a Buddhist or I'm not a Buddhist, I'm either kind of like all the religions or none of them. I spent almost two years there as the live in carpenter who also had to sit in meditation every time day. So that took me through acupuncture. And then the year after I graduated, I was doing a house call. And in Hawaii, if you've ever been there, there are many rainbows. And I was in this one little valley and I gave a treatment and inside they had the, the shades drawn and it was dimly lit. And when I arrived it was sunny. And when I was inside it rained. I didn't know that. And when I came out it was brilliantly sunny again. And I proceeded to carry off with my table and my supplies and didn't realize it had rained and it was slippery and I fell down a flight of stairs. And I jokingly acknowledge my guardian angel for standing there with their foot out because I needed that fall to injure myself, because it helped me. With the help of a friend who gave me advice, I went to see my first osteopath. And after doing that I headed off to osteopathic medical school. So it was mostly things happened almost to me more than I chose anything. I just followed my curiosity and my passion.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's a big plane ride between Hawaii and Maine.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How did you end up here?

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

Oh, this osteopath who treated me as I was getting treated. I asked him if there were still osteopathic schools because I was unfamiliar with them. And he informed me that there were. And he said that in our discussion, he said, and if you want a recommendation, I'll write you one. And he happened to be a very well known, a national figure in my profession and he was a great family of manipulative osteopaths, the ones that do the traditional things with their hands to their patients, even though he is a general practitioner. After he said that, I queried the American Osteopathic association and applied, and I applied only to the osteopathic schools. And I went around the country and interviewed at everyone that had asked me for an interview. And I had all these acceptances and I didn't know where to go. And I was back in Hawaii trying to decide when I got one last invitation for an interview. And I questioned about going or not. And I, with the help of friends, they convinced me I should be thorough. So I flew to Maine. And when I drove down the road that leads you to the University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine, when I drove down that road, I knew that that was where I was supposed to go to school. It was a beautiful April, late April, early May day. Sun was shining. I could see the river and I could see the ocean, and it just felt like the spot. So I ended up going to school there. And that's what brought me to Maine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It seems as though what you're telling me is you really came to trust yourself and trust the information that you are being given. And this seems to fit in very nicely, we. With what you. How you work with patients and how you help them heal.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

I think you give me credit for more awareness than I have. But, yes, I think I. I really do trust something, and I think it's an internal thing that I trust much more than I trust the external world. And if I. If I feel called to go and do something, I will do it, even if it doesn't make very good sense to some other people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I think it's fair to say that when you were first doing acupuncture and osteopathic medicine within the traditional medical community, it wasn't as widely accepted as it is now.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

That's true. I was challenged a lot at that time, partly because I think it was something other people were unfamiliar with and it was threatening to them. And I was also internally challenged because I didn't know another osteopath and another acupuncturist, because I was trained in acupuncture first, and most physicians go about it the other way. So. And I think our training is literally almost like layers within the temple of our brain. And so my base layer was acupuncture, and osteopathy got layered on top of that. And it took me a while. And then the other part that I think was really, really helpful to me, interestingly, came from a medical doctor, Janet Travell, who wrote the book on trigger points. And myofascial pain because her book is so beautifully written from a muscular point of view and a myofascial point of view that it gave me the anatomical detail that my mind needed to justify the meridians that I had been taught in acupuncture. And all of a sudden it all clicked. And then it became I'm like a kid in a candy store. I'm still having a great deal of fun because I'm trying to put it together. And it's this huge, wonderful internal process in my patients and in me as well as within our culture, because I think our culture is trying to put it together too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Here on the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast, we've long recognized the link between health and and wealth. Here to speak more on the topic is Tom Shepard of Shepherd Financial.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

The most important thing you need to begin a personal evolution is heart.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

To start your journey, you have to

Dr. Richard Maurer:

take the first step with your eyes

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

and your heart wide open, open to new experiences and possibilities.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

Without this openness, your efforts, your path toward growth and positive change will be fraught with obstacles that seem insurmountable. So if you find yourself looking forward

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

to good things to come, open your

Dr. Richard Maurer:

heart and take a brave step toward the future.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

If you're interested in evolving your relationship

Dr. Richard Maurer:

with your money, get in touch with us.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

I'm here to help.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

@tom.com we'll help you evolve with your money.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

for people who listen to the radio show we've done, we've had some conversations about acupuncture and in some part it's because I've practiced acupuncture myself. Prodded along by you, I'll give you credit because when I came back from my acupuncture training, I said, Dr. Teemi, I don't think I know enough to practice acupuncture. I feel really worried about this. Can I follow you around? Can you teach me some more? And you said, you know everything you need to know. What you need to do is practice.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

Now yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So people who are listening, I think, have some idea about acupuncture, but maybe you could explain it a little bit more for some, for others who haven't been long time listeners.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

Well, first of all, acupuncture is part of a medical system, Oriental medicine. And I know, for instance, that when I was a student and I was doing rotations, I happened to train for one month in Tempe, Arizona, and I was doing pediatrics. And of course, by the end of the month, I had quite a few viral illnesses because I was exposed to all these sick kids. And I would go to this nearby Vietnamese restaurant, and when I went there, I would order something to eat. And one day the lady who was the wife of the couple that owned the restaurant shook her head and said that that wasn't a good choice. And I understood what she was saying and I let her order my meal. And that really struck me because I thought, how did she know more than I knew? And it was because she had all the cultural training that took her to that. And it led me to really try to review in my mind all this data that I was taught in school, but to make it the commonplace, something that my pop, who was a farmer or the neighbor down the street already knew. Like, people know rhubarb is important in springtime because it's like this spring cleansing thing that tastes so good. My grandmother knew that. So that's kind of like integrative medicine, making it simple and something that's very accessible for every single patient because we all know it already. So Oriental medicine, thousands of years ago, it's lost in time. We don't know when it began. They mapped out emotions and how they affect our body. And it's visible. You can see the way people sit and how they look in their face and. And you can tell what their emotions are. We all know that already, but they mapped it out so you could actually use that systematically. And they showed the rivers or channels on your body, how that emotion flows and how you could start regulating it individually. But for most of us, we need someone who might be able to point it out to us so we can do it. We need teachers. And a doctor is first and foremost a teacher, not a prescriber, not a diagnostician. They're a teacher. And I. I am so struck with my patients that they might come to me and I'll say to them, so you've had X rays. What did they. What did the X ray reveal to you? And they'll say, I'm not sure. And I'LL be confused by that because how did they not get that information? Or they'll say I have arthritis and I'll say where? And they won't know the exact level and they won't know the implications of that level. And I think that that's. I think as doctors or as acupuncturists, we don't always realize how lucky we are with our education. So we don't actually take the time to bring them up to speed, so to speak. We do that with our medical students, but we need to do that with our patients. And they are, it is so delightful to see in a person's face understanding. And now they can deal with this painful issue because they know what it means and they feel reassured and acknowledged. And then we can do something with it to teach people how to manage it and understand it and transform it inside themselves. And one of the things they talked about also in acupuncture would be the various herbs that could benefit and the various nutritional components. And I've wrestled with that because I over the years I've read the literature that said some of these formulations are tainted. And so we've now have better formulations, I hope. But I've also thought about it from the standpoint of like the local food idea. Should we be doing formulas that come out of China or should we be doing formulas that came from the American Indians? And how can we construct for my patient who happens to be living in Maine and might be a lobsterman, how can I help him construct the herbs, the nutrients, the exercise program, the self awareness that will help him to use the structure that we got from Oriental medicine and the structure we have from our own American medical system to rebuild their life in a way that they're better able to live with what problems they have and maybe correct them. So I think their system is big. It involves sticking in needles to activate these channels. They also involve manipulation or massage to activate the channels. They talk about mindfulness, they talk about exercise programs and the nutrition. And I think there are other things that they don't talk about as clearly, but they would also obviously recommend avoiding things that are destructive to your system. And so I think all of that is pretty well laid out in Oriental medicine. And it becomes a perfect adjunct corollary to American medicine and osteopathy because osteopathy has that hands on flavor to being a doctor in this country.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So describe briefly what osteopathy is.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

Well, it was created by an MD who was a physician and a surgeon and he just Lost his family, his children died. And he felt like he needed to develop a different approach. And he studied the structure the human body and dove into anatomy in a very detailed way at a time when bonesetters did exist in Europe and may have influenced him here in the States. And so he really worked hard to develop a way of using his hands to touch people in a beneficial way. And I think the important word, rather than manipulation, just refers to manos, which is the hand. So he used his hands. But I like the word touch because I think it carries the layers of my words. Might touch you emotionally or thoughtfully or in your body. So when he touches. When he taught, he taught how to touch people in a way that could adjust their structure and help them to develop better health. And in Oriental medicine and in osteopathic medicine, we really understand a little bit about the different points or regions in the body and how those points or regions can influence our inner organs and how they're functioning. There are some points in the upper front of your chest that if you mindfully breathe up near your clavicle, it's very relaxing, but it also helps aerate your lungs. And those are lung points in Oriental medicine. But there are also points that we might use to touch or manipulate in osteopathic medicine to help people's lungs to work better as well as to release some of that tension that gives us anterior chest pain or neck pain or headaches. So. So osteopathic medicine deals with how our structure and our function works together. And it also recognizes how our mind and our body are interacting. And it also posits the idea that we have a spiritual component, whatever that might be. And it brought up the idea that we function in an integrated whole, which I think is significant because I think one of the directions that I've had the opportunity by working together with Dr. Craig Schneider at Maine Medical center in the Integrative Medicine program. The idea that we're integrated in many layers. And I think that Oriental medicine, osteopathic medicine, and integrative medicine are these three well fitting components that I've had the opportunity to study and I continue to try to play with and enjoy and work with.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What you're describing is something that I believe people are craving. I believe that patients are craving it. I believe that physicians are craving it. I think many people who went into medicine really did go into medicine because they wanted to become teachers and because the touch was important. And the way that medicine has sort of the pendulum has swung, is away from having the time to do that in the 15 minute visit. It's hard to even have enough time to talk to someone, never mind help teach them, help them understand. And then the physical exam, just the examination, without even touching to heal, the examination gets lost as well. But I'm sensing that the pendulum is swinging back and this craving is bringing us back to a place of really practicing as physicians and, and being, I guess, involved in our healing as patients in a way that is kind of consistent with what you've described.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

I think that the patients are driving it and that's been the last quite a lengthy period of time, decades, I believe, where they really have been seeking more and more what originally was called alternative providers and then complementary providers and now they're looking for integrated.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Dr. Teemi, how can people find out about your practice and the work that you're doing in Falmouth?

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

Well, I could give you the name of our practice and our telephone number and they could look it up on the Internet, even though I have not done that, so I have no idea what's there. I do have patients who come in and say that I'm listed under the wrong address and I have multiple addresses, so I don't know how the system works. But the name of our practice is Falmouth Osteopathy and Acupuncture. And we're located in Falmouth, 6 Fundy Road. And I am pleased that I have a couple colleagues that work with me there. One is Dr. Joy Palmer, who's a D.O. who taught Virginia and graduated from the University of New England. And Dr. Elizabeth Strawbridge, who went through the Maine Medical Center Integrative Medicine program, is there part time and she also practices in Maine Medical Center's hospital doing integrative medicine and acupuncture there. So I have some very gifted people that I work with there and maybe I should give you our telephone number. And it's 207-781-6560.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And we had Dr. Strawbridge on the radio show last year. So listeners may remember Dr. Strawbridge and if not, you can always go to the podcast and learn more about the work that she's doing. It's really been a pleasure to catch up with you and to hear what you are doing these days days and to hear a little bit more about what got you here. And I'm sure the people who are listening enjoyed understanding what makes you the kind of doctor that you are and knowing that there are doctors like you out there who are practicing medicine in a very patient centered way. So thank you for coming in and thank you for the work that you do and thank you for being my teacher.

Dr. Ralph Thieme:

Thanks for the opportunity to spend this time with you and to see you once again.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As a physician and small business owner, I rely on Marcie Booth from Booth Main to help me with my own business and to help me live my own life fully. Here are a few thoughts from Marcy. When was the last time you took a break from what you were doing, from the work that was piled up on your desk and just looked up? I know that during the course of my days, I often forget to take a moment or or two to just breathe, look up at the sky and dream terrible that I have to remind myself to breathe. But when I do, I feel energized because in those moments, I'm able to let go of the daily grind and think more about what I want to accomplish, how I want my business to grow. Sometimes those are the aha moments. If we all took a few moments out each day to stop what we were doing and and dream a little about our business futures, not only would we feel a great sense of calm, but we may come to realize that these dreams can, in fact, come true. I'm Marcie Booth. Let's talk about the changes you need. Boothmain.com

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Today we have with us on the show an individual that I've known for a very long time. In fact, we did a writing workshop I, I believe in 2006 together. And then I interviewed him in one of our very early shows. I think show number two. This is Dr. Richard Maurer, and I'm so proud and pleased to be interviewing him and talking about his book the Blood Code today, because I feel like I've kind of known him from early on in this whole thing. Dr. Richard Maurer practices integrative medicine in Portland, Maine, and helps people resolve metabolic conditions such as Pre and type 2 diabetes, hypothyroidism, heart disease, risk and weight gain. He strives to help people catch and reverse metabolic conditions as early as possible, heralded by symptoms like restless leg syndrome, high triglycerides, migraines, and fatigue. He is the author of the Blood Code. Congratulations and thanks for coming in.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

Thank you, Lisa. It's a pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The other individual we have with us is Patty Hagee Patti is a client of Dr. Richard Maurer and is also the writer in residence at the Telling Room. She has master's degrees in social work and creative writing, three children and two grandchildren. She lives on Munjoy Hill. Thank you for coming in.

Patty Hagge:

You're welcome. Thanks.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And we actually have had your husband.

Patty Hagge:

Yes, you have.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

On our show not so long ago. Cyrus Hagee. So I'm excited about this book and I'm excited for you, Richard, because I know that you've been working on this for a while. But I'm excited about this book also because as a primary care doctor, I spend a lot of time with patients that I know need to make alterations in their diets. And this book gives us some hard evidence that tells us what direction these alterations need to take. And that's new and different. This isn't something that people have been talking about.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

Right. After practicing 20 years. I had followed so many different diets over that time. If I go before that, I was, you know, as a child, born in the 60s and, you know, growing up in the 70s. My mother at some point read Adele Davis, and all of a sudden we started eating brewer's yeast smoothies with a raw egg and a banana for breakfast. So I've been affected by the natural health movement throughout my life. So it was no surprise in naturopathic medical school in the late 80s, early 90s that I pursued what I thought was the right diet. You know, I was a vegetarian, and it seemed like the right thing to do. I had seven grain cereal. If anyone needed to know that there's more than five grains, There are seven grains. There's even nine grain cereal. So I was eating what boy, the American Heart association would say was a fabulously healthy diet. And my first year of medical school was one of the sickest years of my life. I got chicken pox again. I threw my muscles out all the time. I developed allergies. I had a skin infection. That was bizarre. It was not a healthy time in my life. I was very thin, so people would think, oh, you must be so healthy. But something wasn't right. It took me many years to really figure it out. And part of this work is a little bit of my experience, but it's also framed in 25 years of naturopathic natural health practice, a medical practice that emphasizes really getting to the root of the problem and finding dietary or nutrition, nutritional or exercise approach to really resolving and removing the underlying cause of an illness. And I think that's what steered the blood code. I think that's what has really helped me successfully watch people reverse type 2 diabetes and no longer have it. It's not like they're treating it or managing it. It's that it's not there anymore as long as they're eating and living in accordance with their blood test results and some of what I wrote about in the book. So it's a fun time for me to sort of break the shackles of what is a healthy diet. This book is not about what a healthy diet is. And I don't go around preaching to people what they should or shouldn't eat. I will say that I'm not a vegetarian anymore. That was a terrible, terrible diet for me and would have probably caused more illness early in my life. But knowing I'm eating truly right for me, and I can back that up with hard evidence on blood test panels, on myself, and I can do this as well on hundreds of patients over the past years is kind of rewarding. And I hope this book sort of can bring it to people who can bring it to their doctors or bring it to people who can bring it to their families and sort of re empower themselves to figure out what that right diet is.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And we're going to talk about that because I know people are going to be very interested as to what your approach has been. I want to find out from Patty what, why you thought that you needed to do something different in your own health, in your own wellness situation.

Patty Hagge:

In 2009, my son, who was a teenager, was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. And they said. Then the doctor turned to me and he said, it's totally genetic. Who has it, you or your husband? And I said, my husband and I both said, oh, it's me. So I had to have a sleep study. And I had a sleep study. And I didn't have severe. I had actually sort of mild sleep apnea. So the doctor said, yeah, you lose ten pounds, you'll be fine. Ten, fifteen pounds, you'll be fine. Don't worry about it. So I tried to lose weight, and I could not lose weight. I couldn't. Like, I was. I couldn't figure it out. And I had seen Dr. Maurer off and on for years, and I said, okay, help me figure this out. And he said, okay, this is what you need to do. You need to go get. This is. So this is 2009. So he said, go get a glucometer and take your blood sugar several times a day before you eat and after you've eaten in between and keep a journal. And Come back and see me in a couple months. And nothing else had indicated that I had any insulin resistance at all. My primary care physician hadn't even mentioned it. Anyway, so we came back and he looked at the stuff and he said, oh yeah, this is what's going on, you, insulin resistance. So what he actually said to me was, so this is what you have to do. You have to change your diet. You have to take out some of the carbs and replace some of the carbs with fats instead of carbs. So I said, okay. I had no idea how to do that, but I eventually figured it out, trial and error. And I kept on testing my glucose levels and kept on going back to him saying, okay, how does this look? And until we figured out exactly how to tweak my diet. So now if you took my blood work, you looked at my blood work. I do not look pre diabetic at all. I look like a pretty healthy person.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And are you feeling better?

Patty Hagge:

Oh, yeah, yeah, I feel great. I mean, it's, you know, like I have to work at it. I can't give up. I have to stay on my diet. I have to exercise every single day. You know, I have to keep going. Yeah. But yes, I feel much better.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

There has been some association between animal proteins and increased inflammation and maybe not in everyone. And you're looking at me as though you're going to tell me that's just not true. Is that not true?

Dr. Richard Maurer:

As a rule, that is not true.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

Even some of the early studies, what was happening is the, the association error of science. So we pool A bunch of surveys from Greater Framingham, Massachusetts, and that's called the Framingham Study, an ongoing study. And we're in the second generation of Framingham participants. You pool all those people in the mid-80s and you find that the highest quintile, if you're in the top 20% of meat eaters, you had a little more heart disease and you had perhaps more inflammatory conditions than the lowest 20% of meat eaters. And it made sense for someone to jump up and say, aha, it's meat that's causing this. What that is is a hindsight association. And that was when a lot of these errors began. Some of these survey studies, when you control for vegetable intake, so say the highest 20% are typically the people that ate no vegetables. This was a McMuffin for breakfast, this was a roast beef and fries for lunch, and it was a pepperoni pizza for dinner. So say we change that and we say, all right, let's take people that ate no less than four servings of vegetables a day. Now take the highest 20% of meat eaters and the lowest 20%, all those associations disappear. So vegetables do seem to be a great equalizer. You know, if you're trying to wrap your fats and proteins in bread and fried oil, there's going to be a problem. That's the inflammatory diet. We want to point our fingers to the one thing in that meal, and a number of people have wanted to claim that it's the meat or it's the, it's the animal based protein. And again, the evidence doesn't support it. When you control for the other variables, it's not an issue. And that's certainly coming to light now as we saw the New York Times, Mark Bittman's work, and a number of investigative journalists that don't quite have the same bias. They haven't published something that they're trying to protect. So we have a much more open expose of what the research really shows. And to demonize meat and to demonize saturated fat, well, you know, the emperor wears no clothes. It turns out these foods are not harmful to our body. Perhaps how they were eaten in those survey studies was harmful. So processed meat and fried oils, these are a problem for our health. And a whole foods diet also means that the skin's still on the chicken. And, you know, we can, we can bring those saturated fats and those animal based proteins served with plenty of vegetables. You know, it's, I think I eat far more, I know I eat far more vegetables than I ever did as a vegetarian.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, then let's talk about the blood code. Because what I. What I found most interesting as I was reading this book was, was that your lab tests are. They're not new and different. They're pretty straightforward. You just have a slightly more extensive panel than, I think what most primary care doctors are offering right now in their offices. You talk about getting a cholesterol panel. You talk about getting vitamin D level, which a lot of doctors are starting to do now. But you actually talk about also looking more into the thyroid. So not just doing a straightforward tsh, which is a standard test, but also doing more tests than that. And you talk about doing a ferritin level. So you just go a little bit deeper, but nothing wacky.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

Thank you for that. It's very true. I mean, I think there have been books that have tried to claim some proprietary test or tried to make one test an esoteric test, have more meaning than it should ever have. These are very straightforward tests to look at a hemoglobin A1C. This is a very common test used to manage people with diabetes. I'm just asking people to do it before they have diabetes. Running a serum insulin test is probably one of the tests I'm most passionate about. A baseline fasting serum insulin. This test provides a wealth of information, and that, with the glucose, can really help me map whether someone is or isn't insulin resistant and how severe it is or isn't. So just that serum insulin on a fasting test is tremendously useful. And I shiver when I see people put on medications that raise their insulin level before anyone ever measured where their underlying baseline insulin was. I think it's a very simple metric and provides a wealth of information. And as far as cost, our local lab here, this test only costs about $28. So I'm never far from a lot of information and the information is accessible and affordable. There's a movement right now where it's relatively recent. The federal government has made a statement that people have the right to receive their blood test results directly from the lab that orders them. This is part of a federal mandate to the labs. Now, the labs are thrilled with this. This way, the results go to the doctor and to the patient, as long as the patient requests it. A number of other states will allow people to go and pay cash for test panels. This drives the cost to be even more affordable. I think the movement will be for people to be able to go to a local pharmacy or any local draw station and for a relatively affordable cash price, be able to get a panel of blood tests and then see if that can steer them, whether they can pivot off of those results to better navigate their diet and fitness habits. To me, it's very self empowering. It's an incredibly optimistic message that people can learn this and really better understand themselves and act on it. And I think our doctors, as doctors, we need to facilitate that partnership and really put the power back in the person who needs to make these diet and fitness changes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Is that true, Patty? How did this all. Working with Dr. Maurer and knowing your own labs, how did this make you feel compared to maybe your past experience with, I don't want to say primary care doctors. I don't want to blame anybody. But how did your relationship with Richard, Dr. Maurer, how did that change when you had your own information in front of you and he was explaining it and you really understood it more thoroughly?

Patty Hagge:

I sought out Dr. Maurer in the beginning because I am that kind of person anyway, that wanted to take more control of my life and didn't want to have somebody else sort of figuring things out for me. But so in his. And when he, well, he always believed in tests and talking about the tests and seeing how your blood work was going, I feel like this really isn't that new of a thing that you've been doing. And. No. So, you know, numbers don't really stay in my head, but it felt very like real. This piece of paper explains what's going on. Oh, look. And let's compare it to last year. I mean, you know, I've been seeing him so long, he has a lot of these papers. I mean, we can see over time if something is shifting. And I can say, okay, for instance, recently my blood work looked good. One little thing was getting a little high. And also we haven't talked about the calibers, but the skin caliber thing I had, I just, in the last, I don't know, maybe year, I started gaining weight again. And you know, the little skin caliber said that I was collecting fat a little bit more. And so he said, okay, you have to start working out more. And he started this fitness thing. So it's all like, it's just very clear this is what's going on. And if you do X, Y and Z, you can keep your blood work good and healthy and strong. It's very clear. It feels very clear. And I feel. And then I feel like I can experiment within that, you know, like, okay, what is it that I really need? Oh, I need to eat a little bit of protein, but mostly vegetables, like he said. Like, oh, I get it. I need to exercise every single day, and every other day has to be with weights. You know, it's like, it does make me, you know, I'm totally in control and I get to make decisions and, you know, and I know what I need. So it does. It feels good. And I feel like you support. And when I. When something happens, like, I feel like, wait, why am I randomly gaining weight? You know, we can look at the blood work and we can tweak it and figure it out. So it's great. I like that way of working. It makes sense to me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The skin caliper measurement is an important part of what you're suggesting, Richard, because it's skin calipers, or anybody who's listening doesn't know. You take a fold of skin and you put it in between, sort of a pinching instrument, and then you. And it's not. Doesn't really hurt. And you just find out how big this fold of skin is. It's very basic, very straightforward, not expensive, Sometimes can be a little, I don't know, humbling. But it's not a hard test. But it does give you a good baseline. It does tell you my upper body is in need of some conditioning, and it helps with this.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

It's another simple, inexpensive metric to steer people towards diet or fitness changes. You know, for less than $20, you can get an extremely accurate caliper. With a little practice, you can. You can do it on a buddy, you can do some points on yourself. You won't be able to do all four because one of them is on your back. I've used calipers for 20 years in my practice, and the simple little rules that I state in the book in the blood code, if the triceps are measuring higher than right above the hip bone, then there probably needs to be more exercise. This is a deconditioned state. Some people with hypothyroid will start to move in this direction because on a day off of exercise, people with hypothyroid will go even more metabolically asleep. They'll slow down even more. And if people have a higher measurement at the hip, it means they really need to do a more ambitious attempt at reducing their carbohydrate intake. So really to steer people towards dietary changes or exercise changes, the caliper is a simple measurement to help me do that. If someone's even. It may be a little 50, 50, where diet and exercise really are both emphasized the same.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'm very excited about the book. I'm very excited about the opportunities that this presents for people and the possibility of partnership with their doctor if that's the way they choose to utilize it, or even if they just choose to read it on their own. It sounds like, Patty, you've had a great experience in terms of partnership and understanding your own body better. So how do people find out about your book the blood code, Dr. Maurer?

Dr. Richard Maurer:

People can go to thebloodcode.com and that's a website and a real resource for people to sign up for an ongoing newsletter to utilize some of the posts that the other people in the Blood Code community are bringing to light. Things that they've tried in their life that have been successful or not. And building that conversation and that community really helps, again, I think reinforce the empowering message that type 2 diabetes is not something we treat, it's something we can make no longer exist if we live in accordance with it. It's changed my perspective and I think the ongoing conversation at the website and in the book will really help people see their bodies in a more optimistic

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

well, I appreciate your both coming in and speaking with us today and I encourage people to go to your website and read the book the Blood Code. We've been speaking with Patty Hagee, a client of Dr. Richard Maurer, who is also the writer in residence of the Telling room, and with Dr. Richard Maurer, who is the author of the Blood Code. Thanks so much for coming in.

Patty Hagge:

Thanks for having us.

Dr. Richard Maurer:

Thank you Lisa. It's a pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have been listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 146, Patient Centered Wellness. Our guests have included Dr. Ralph Teemi, Dr. Richard Maurer, and Patty Hagee. For more information on our guests and extended interviews, visit doctor. Org. The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is downloadable for free on itunes. For a preview of each week's show, sign up for our e newsletter and like our Dr. Lisa Facebook page. Follow me on Twitter and as bountiful one on Instagram. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Patient Centered Wellness Show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.