Pond Hockey & Portland Eating #282

Patrick Guerette:

I hope that we kind of go more towards the model of like, let's give these kids as much opportunity playing with each other and grow some really strong homegrown programs right in our community so that all these kids have the opportunity and not just the kids that can travel to Massachusetts and play organized hockey tournaments.

Jay Villani:

But it makes you be more aware of your game and trying to stay on top of it, you know, to still be relevant 18 years later. I'm very fortunate, you know. I feel very lucky and I don't take it for granted, you know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine radio show number 282, pond hockey and Portland Eating, airing for the first time on Sunday, February 12, 2017. There is great value in building things that give pleasure to others. For the past five years, Patrick Garrett has been the tournament director of the Maine Pond Hockey Classic, bringing players like South Portland firefighter Joshua Perry to central Maine. Portland restaurateur and artist Jay Villani opened his first eatery, Local 188, 18 years ago and now has three more. Maine is a happier place as a result of their eff. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

For many years, I have lived in the small town of Yarmouth, and we have a wonderful skating rink behind our bank on Main street where people play pond hockey. And today we have two individuals who are quite committed to the idea of pond hockey here in the state of Maine. We have. We have Patrick Garrett, who is a senior program director at the Alphonse Youth center in Waterville and the tournament director of the Main Pond Hockey classic being held February 10th through 12th in Sydney. We also have Joshua Perry, who is a firefighter and paramedic for the South Portland Fire Department and the captain of two South Portland Fire Department teams at the tournament. Thanks for coming in today.

Joshua Perry:

Thanks for having us.

Patrick Guerette:

Thanks for having us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So this is a pretty great idea to do a pond hockey classic. Whose idea was it?

Patrick Guerette:

Kind of my idea. So when I started working at the Alfon U Center, I met the CEO and we were talking about different creative fundraising ideas that we could do. And I just read an article in USA Hockey magazine about pond hockey tournaments. So the idea was fresh in my brain, and I was like, hey, that sounds like something we could do in Maine and in this area. So he kind of challenged me to put it together, and, you know, five years later, here we are. So I think it was a good idea. It still seems like a good idea.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, what do you think, Joshua? You've been doing hockey for, you said told me 30 years or something.

Joshua Perry:

Yeah, last year was our first year playing, and I've never played in a pond hockey tournament before. I heard Pat on a local radio show promoting it. Sounded like a fun idea. And last year was the first time for almost all of us playing in a pond hockey tournament. And we had such a good time. We're back again and bringing more people this time.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now, both of you have a history of playing hockey. Was it always on ponds or was it in regular rinks?

Patrick Guerette:

So for me, I actually, I picked up organized hockey very late. So my whole childhood of hockey was pond hockey. So I didn't start playing organized hockey until I was a sophomore in high school, actually. So for me, pond hockey was all I really knew, and I didn't even play a lot of that. It was not until, like, really get later into high school and kind of college that I've enjoyed playing hockey on high level, so I try to play hockey all the time now because I didn't get it younger. When I was a kid.

Joshua Perry:

I played both organized hockey growing up and just skating around. And that was what I loved about it was it was a lot of freedom just to go out and skate. And it wasn't so structured or organized. It was just kind of stress free. And you could practice different things, be creative and just have fun with your friends. And I think that's one of the big draws about pond hockey and skating around is it's just a good time with your friends. You don't have that structure and pressure from practices and games and everything.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you grew up in Millinocket?

Joshua Perry:

I did, yeah. So we had a lot of lakes and ponds that we could, if the weather cooperated, we could skate on. Or there was a big public skating rink in town or games were outside. So it was pretty interesting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It also, it seems like you're always kind of working with the elements. Sometimes it's a little colder, sometimes it's a little warmer. What happens when the ice on the pond isn't quite as good as you'd like it to be?

Patrick Guerette:

Well, that's pond hockey, I think a lot of people would say is, you know, every year we have people, you know, they say stuff about, you know, the ice isn't good and it's like, well, it's not a rank, you know, and so you kind of got to deal with what's thrown at you. And a lot of it for us as tournament organizers has been trial and error. We've learned a lot over the past five years about what you do and what you don't do. Like one year we were like, people were complaining about the ice, so we decided to flood. And that just made it worse because of the temperature. So it was like, we're not going to do that anymore if temperature is not right for it. And so it's just kind of. It's kind of knowing how to treat the elements, you know, and then just kind of working around whatever comes your way. So, like last year we had extremely cold temperatures, which was funny because it was super warm all winter. And people were even asking if we're gonna have enough ice to do a tournament. And then we had, you know, 20, negative 20 with windchill kind of factors throughout the weekend. And then, you know, previous years we had, we had a winter storm, Nemo, our first year of our tournament. So just, it's always been kind of fun to you Know, see what's gonna get thrown at us at the last minute. So I don't look at the extended forecast because it either stresses me out or misleads me into believing that it's gonna be all perfect and hunky dory. So we just don't look at it until like the week of and say, whatever comes our way, we'll handle it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you've never had to actually postpone or cancel it?

Patrick Guerette:

We actually did one a year. It was two years ago. We had several storms that were back to back of heavy, heavy snow. And the ice was great, but the weight of the snow actually, when we plowed it all off, was breaking the ice. So. And that was a pot issue anywhere we would have gone. So that was kind of what we ran into. And we had people that had already gotten plane tickets and hotels. And it's not one of those things you can postpone necessarily. So, you know, we. What we did is we refunded everybody's money and said, you know, let's bring it back the next year and kind of pick it up from there. And that's when these guys got involved. So we learned a lot that year about what to do and what not to do. And so we've put kind of some stop caps in place to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, Joshua, you actually, you spent some time outside of the state.

Joshua Perry:

I have.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What were you doing?

Joshua Perry:

I was in the air Force for eight years, and I lived in Montana for three years and three years in Germany.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when you came back to Maine, did it feel like you had a renewed interest in doing things outdoors and really embracing the weather that we have?

Joshua Perry:

Montana and Germany were pretty similar, and I packed my hockey gear wherever I went. So I got to play a bunch of hockey in Montana, and I played a fair amount in Germany as well. Our base team played a bunch of local German teams. So that was pretty interesting. Different style of hockey, but yeah, after spending eight years away, I was pretty excited to come back home and be back here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you have two teams that you're in charge of and they're all firefighters?

Joshua Perry:

Yeah, pretty much. Couple people drop out, so we've reached out to a couple other people from. One's a brother in law of one of our players, one's from Lewiston fire, one's my neighbor. So just had to fill up a couple spots where people backed out at the last minute. And we wanted to make it work.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And these are all people who have

Joshua Perry:

some background playing hockey almost. We had such a Good time last year. And the guys at work probably sick about hearing us talk about how much fun we've had. One guy bought gear this year and is going to learn how to play. We don't really care. We're just in it to have a good time and to hang out with each other. We're a small department with three different stations and four shifts, so we don't always get to see some of the guys. And this is a great way for us to hang out together and spend time with our other co workers that we don't get to see as much. So it would be pretty fun.

Patrick Guerette:

Yeah, it was really funny. After last year's tournament, it was either you or one of your players reached out to me and were like, listen, next year could you have a division where it's just you show up and you play and there's no tournament or competition because we just want to come up and play and have a good time. And I was like, that sounds like a good idea. So we actually added a just for fun division this year where there was no playoffs. You get guaranteed to play games both days. Which we actually didn't get enough teams signed up for that. But we had another outside team that was interested. So I think it has merit and I think it'll grow from there. But I thought it was interesting that these guys kind of came up with it. I was like, yeah, that's way easier for me to even organize than to just do it that way. So I was like, let's throw it in there and see what happens.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how is it structured? What are the divisions and how many people do you usually get?

Patrick Guerette:

So this year is our biggest tournament. We have 62 teams that are signed up. We have four divisions that we'll be playing this year. So we have a. We call it an Open A, which is like our highest level of competition. The team that went last year are all UNE alumni hockey players. So that tells you about the level of competition that's there. Then our Open B is a lot of, I would say, upper level men's leagues teams or guys that are, you know, kind of getting back into it that maybe were at a high level before. We have a recreational C division, which is kind of like your general everybody. Like, we still want to be competitive, but we know we're not a high level player. And then we actually have a 40 and over division this year, 40 and over as well. We had a women's division as well. We didn't make enough teams. So they're going to play in the women's team that we have is going to play in the open B division because they're all ex college hockey players and they're like, yeah, we're going to take, take on all the boys, so that'll be fun. And then the just for fun division, which again, we had to roll those teams in other divisions. So we always, if a team wants to play, we'll find an opportunity for them to play in one of the divisions and we'll look to continue to expand. So next year we've talked about adding a 50 and over division because a lot of the guys in the 40 and over are actually like 60. So can we bump up the ages a little bit so we don't have to skate against 41 year olds?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how many people does this entail between all the people on all the teams? And then you have volunteers and you have people like yourself. What are we talking about?

Patrick Guerette:

Probably throughout the course of the weekend, players, volunteers, spectators, probably looking at about 1000 people that'll be involved. So about 500ish players. And we have a lot of different volunteers. And it's funny that Snow Pond, which is also Mesalonski Lake, is a very popular ice fishing spot in central Maine. And we're really close to the Sydney boat landing, which is where a lot of people access it. So we get a lot, we'll get a lot of extra foot traffic of ice fishermen. Just be like, hey, what's going on over there? Let me check it out. So we really encourage that too because I think it adds something for the players to have spectators around checking it out and cheering them on. And I even know that these guys last year when they got knocked out of the tournament, they went back out and were cheering on the team that knocked them out of the tournament just because they wanted to stay engaged and involved, which I thought was pretty cool.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it sounds like you really make a weekend of this.

Joshua Perry:

Yeah, we try to. I think that was the big draw for us with the just for fun division because we know we're not. Actually last year we did make it to the playoffs, but with this year, with that many more teams, we know we're done on Saturday and we just wanted to come out and have a good time and kind of make the weekend out of it. And we were kind of sad that it didn't happen, but we're going to stick around and play each other, play another team on Sunday just for fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what is it about hockey that has appealed to you and has caused you to Bring your gear to Germany and to Montana. And to keep doing this, it's just

Joshua Perry:

such a fun sport. I mean, growing up in Maine and as cold as the winters are and as much snow, you gotta get outside and enjoy it or it's going to be a long time. I don't know what the draw of the sport was for me, but it's just something that's captured a big part of me and I love doing it. My son is going to be five next month, and we're out on the Ponds pond two blocks from our house. And this was the first year he's really been interested in skating. And, you know, to watch him take his first skates was almost as proud of a moment as watching him take his first steps and getting him outside and wearing him out. So that's been the big draw for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And does his mom also skate or play hockey?

Joshua Perry:

She comes out. She doesn't play hockey, but she'll come out and skate around or encourage us to get out of the house and go skate so she can have some alone time. But, yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, Patrick, you're. So you have a girl or a boy?

Patrick Guerette:

I have a boy.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have a boy. And he's only nine months old?

Patrick Guerette:

Yep.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you haven't probably done much with skating at this point.

Patrick Guerette:

No, he's just learning how to crawl right now, so. But he'll have skates next winter. So, you know, I mean, you know, again, I work in, you know, youth, so youth development, I would say. And so I'm never gonna force his hand, but I'm gonna provide opportunities for him to do the things, especially the things I really like to do. So he'll probably have skates pretty early on in life. And the other sports that I like, he'll probably have the opportunities to do those. But if he says, I want to be a musician or I want to be an artist, we'll support him in that, too. So whatever he wants to do, we'll do. But I hope he likes hockey.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I would think that after putting all this amount of time into the Pond Hockey Classic, that obviously if he could come along and he could be part of this as time goes on.

Patrick Guerette:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that when you're talking about what is the allure to hockey, and I think for a lot of

Joshua Perry:

kids,

Patrick Guerette:

you can skate faster than you can run. So it's like the idea of kids like to go fast. So I think getting kids on skate so they can go faster than they can normally is really kind of a thrilling. And it Takes less energy so they can go further, faster. It's a great team sport, too. There's not a lot of sports where you have to. You know, it's really hard to be an individual hockey player and take over the entire game just because of the nature of the game. But, you know, there are some other sports where it's a little easier. So I like the team aspect of it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So originally your tournament was up in China Lake, is that right?

Patrick Guerette:

Yeah. So we. We had a great spot in China Lake for the first couple years. There were some limitations, but it was highly visible right off a main road in China, and this place called the landing. So they had, like, a building right there, small parking lot. And after the first two years, we kind of quickly realized that we were going to outgrow this location. So we started looking for other spots just because there was not a lot of parking right out there. There was plenty of ice, but no parking and none of the other amenities. So I started driving all around central Maine, looking at any spot that I thought might work. And it's almost embarrassing that I didn't know that the New England music camp, which is where we are located, out of which is now the Snow pond center for the arts, was like, the perfect location right in my home, like the town that I was living in. And I stumbled across it, and I talked to the owner, and it turns out that, you know, his family is kind of a hockey family. They grew up in Connecticut as, like, whalers fans. And they were like, oh, this would be great. We're totally on board. So they've been very good about supporting the tournament, but it was kind of just funny. I was like, I wish I would have found this place the first year. Not that China wasn't great, but, like, they have everything. They have a lodge, overlooks the lake, great drive on access right where they're at. And then, like, again, we're so close to the Sydney boat landing that it makes it great for a truck trying to move stuff over to the tournament and whatnot, because they plotted that out for trucks to be able to put out ice shacks and whatnot. So I honestly can't believe that we didn't find it sooner.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, there's a lot going on in central Maine that I'm not sure a lot of people know about. You grew up, obviously, much further north in Millinocket. Did you know that all of this was going on in central Maine, Joshua?

Joshua Perry:

No, I think I just happened to be listening to the radio station about the tournament, and I just was looking for something fun to do with my co workers and let's give it a try and see if we can get a team together. And luckily we were able to get one together. So that was. Yeah, that was all our first time playing in a pond hockey tournament.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So were you surprised by anything in the last couple of years? In the last couple years with regard to this pond hockey tournament?

Joshua Perry:

I was surprised at how many. How easy it was for us to get an actual team together. I thought it was going to be a little bit more challenging for us to get a team. I think last year was your first year at Snow Pond.

Patrick Guerette:

Yeah, it was the first year at Snowpon. Yeah.

Joshua Perry:

And we knew that that was their first time being there. It was our first time playing in a tournament, so we didn't have any ideas of really what to expect. And the weather was crazy. And Pat and the volunteers put on such an awesome event. One it being the first time at a new location, the weather, they did a fantastic job. We had so much fun. We were pretty impressed by that and surprised by that. So it made getting a second team a little bit easier.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when you're not on the ice actually playing in the games, it sounds like you do a lot of supporting other teams or maybe doing some supporting other teams.

Joshua Perry:

It was the polar dip that you could watch. My wife and son came up and there was a skating rink on the side. There was a beer garden. That's where a lot of the teams hung out, especially around the fire, staying warm or just waiting in between games.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So who was doing the polar dip?

Patrick Guerette:

So that's another fundraiser that we do for the Elfilanu Center. We used to do it later in the year, but when we started doing this event, we just like, why don't we just do it together? It'd be kind of fun, you know, from both sides. And so it's mostly local people from the central Maine area that come up and they come out and do the polar bear dip. We have local businesses and we have local kind of celebrities who are like politicians and, you know, selectmen that will jump to and raise money for the Alfond Youth Center. So that's actually. It's like our 23rd year doing the polar bear dip, I think could be 22nd. Don't quote me on that, but I know it's recorded. So it's been going on for a while. It's always been a fun kind of thing to, you know, jump in really cold water. And it's. It's kind of neat and it's really neat because you're like, really like we're cutting a hole in the ice to jump in. It's very shallow, so nobody gets swept away. But it's kind of this neat little atmosphere. In the past, we've done it at a pool that we filled up in front of the Alpha News Center. I don't think that has the same allure of jumping in the middle of a lake in the middle of a pond hockey tournament.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you attract teams, really from all over, not just within the state of Maine.

Patrick Guerette:

Yeah, that's actually. So we've gotten teams this year. We have teams from as far away as Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Long island, or teams and players. Actually, I was talking to one captain the other day. They have a brother that might be flying up from Florida to play in the tournament. So definitely it's attracting people from away. I think a lot of you kind of hinted earlier, if you're from Maine, it's always something that kind of draws you back a little bit. So for some people that are out of state, this is their opportunity to come back and kind of experience the winter, their childhood winter as an adult. So I think that's what this kind of provides for a few people. And people just, you know, there are other people that have never played pond hockey before, that they grow up, you know, in the southern states and have only played rink hockey. So there's an allure to that as well. So I think there's a lot of unique aspects to this that people don't necessarily get if they've never grown up in like, New England or northern United States and been able to skate on a pond.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So attracts quite some reason. What are some of those aspects? I guess I'll ask either one of you. Maybe either one of you can answer.

Patrick Guerette:

Well, I would say that pont hockey is different in the sense that, like, the ice conditions because the ice is always going to be a little imperfect. So like, you know, it's kind of. You never know what the puck's going to do. So I would say that it really works on good fundamentals as far as like hand eye coordination and stick work. So it's much less of a skating game and it's more of a passing and stick handling game. I don't know if that's your thoughts.

Joshua Perry:

Yeah, the rules are a bit different. I think the ice conditions can kind of equalize the teams a bit too. So you kind of in the back of your head like, oh, that corner over there is bad. I can't go as fast into that corner or you can't pass the. There's no boards to pass the puck up. So it really emphasizes on skills of passing and it takes away some of the other dynamics that you can do on a rink that you just can't do. And you got to just be really good at shooting and passing and just being outside is just a different aspect of it. It's a lot more fun than going to a rink.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Is it structured? Is the game structured with the same number of minutes?

Patrick Guerette:

No, it's shorter. So we do two 20 minute halves of running time. Just. And that's. And you can do it differently. I mean pond hockey, when you grow up as a kid, it's like we'll play to 11 goals or play to however many goals or play till it gets dark and we'll say last goal and you know, whoever scores wins. So but for the structure of the tournament, we do two 20 minute halves and then you know, the short halftime and that just keeps the flow moving. We also have a lot of, you know that the one thing I actually think that the fact that we don't have an official out on the, on the ice too. So we have a scorekeeper who's kind of there, eyes and ears. But it's really self regulated gameplay. So that's also kind of part of Pawn Daki is there's no ref, there's no, you know, so it's kind of

Joshua Perry:

gentlemanly rules call your own penalties.

Patrick Guerette:

Yeah. And nobody goes into the penalty box really until there's an extreme violation. So. So a lot of it is just making sure that we're having this mutual respect and admiration that we're both out here playing and having fun. We all have to go to work on Monday. So let's not get anybody hurt and you know, let's have fun and play hockey.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how often is this penalty box utilized? And what would be something so egregious as to land some from the pond hockey tournament in it?

Joshua Perry:

No, there's no penalty. It's just a turnover of the puck. And who gets the puck? Like you're not supposed to really play goalie or camp out in front of the goal or who the. When the puck goes out of bounds, who did it go off, who did it last touch. And just you're not supposed to lift the puck. You gotta pretty much keep it on the ice or below the shins. So it's just small things like that. It's kind of a gentleman's agreement.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah.

Patrick Guerette:

And these guys are really. So it all comes like the, these guys have always been very good about, I would say they're very polite. So we have some players that get a little intense and we all know who they are, and they, they're the people that are at risk of not, I would say, end up being the penalty box. So fighting will get you kicked out for the rest of the tournament. So we've had a couple. Like the first year, we had a couple of people that wanted to take the game into the snow bank with each other, and so they earned a ticket out of the tournament. So I'm pretty staunch on no fighting. You know, we, we, we do try to make this a family friendly event. So we don't want people kind of doing that. And there's other things too. If, like, somebody does something new intentionally try to hurt somebody or injure somebody, that's going to get them sent home too. So really it's like, it's a very firm line that basically physically trying to harm somebody will get you sent home right away.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So we talk a lot about people leaving Maine, young, younger people leaving Maine, but you're both individuals who have come. You left and you came back, and you came back and now you have children and you're raising your children within the state of Maine. I know that, Josh, you talked a little bit about coming back, but why did you decide to do that?

Joshua Perry:

I always knew that I wanted to be on a city or a career firefighter. And then when I left the Air Force, I really was. I wasn't sure where I was going to go, and I kind of wanted to come back home. I think I knew I was going to start a family and be here. The quality of life that Maine has.

Patrick Guerette:

And

Joshua Perry:

when you're away for a while, you just really get that perspective of what Maine has to offer and what you miss about it and everything that I wanted as an adult and what I wanted my future Maine had to offer. And that's pretty much why I came back.

Patrick Guerette:

And I'd say my story is pretty similar. Like, my wife and I, when we got married and we decided we wanted to start raising a family, we both kind of knew that Maine was where we grew up and we really liked what it provided for us as children. And, you know, I was actually living in central Massachusetts, and, you know, I hate traffic, too. And so I always say when I spend 60 minutes in a car, I want to go 60 miles, not 16 miles. So I think one of the things that I really enjoy about Maine is being able to get a lot of places in an hour, especially from central Maine, I can get to the coast, I can get to the mountains, I can get to Bangor or Portland. So there's something I really like about that. Now that I have a nine month old, I definitely want him to be able to experience playing outdoors and not have to worry about some of the things that you have to worry about in a city or more densely populated area. So we have a big yard and we wouldn't be able to have that in a lot of other places. Definitely enjoy those types of things.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have degrees in education from the University of Maine and you grew up in the central Maine area. Does it strike you that we do a lot of with organized sports with younger children? So that there's a lot of rules, there's a lot of tournaments, there's a lot of games, there's a lot of structure and that what you're talking about is here you've gotten a little older and now you have to kind of self correct. You have. There's a whole different set of rules or maybe it's not the same rules you're used to.

Patrick Guerette:

Yeah, I mean again, we talked a little bit about like the, the difference of playing Pawn Dahkey and he mentioned not having the structure of a organized practice and how that's good for like development of your skills. So it's like, you know, you're not as a youth on a hockey team. You're probably not going to try some things because you don't want to make a mistake and cause your team to lose. But in pawn hockey, you can take all those risks and take all those chances and there's no like negative repercussions. So you can learn a lot because we learn, we all know we learn more from our mistakes than our successes. Right. So you make a mistake, okay, I won't do it that way again. So I think that's one of the things I really like about this style of gameplay, playing pond hockey and getting kids out. And I think that's there's kind of this grassroots movement back to that. And you see like USA Hockey is doing more like cross ice, three on three with younger age. So their kids are touching the puck more and having more opportunities to kind of try things and make mistakes. So I think we, I hope we continue to do that. I get in debates all the time with people about the, you know, the pros and cons of like travel, youth travel activities. You know, they spend all the time on the road, so how much time are they getting to actually play games and is that the best return on your investment as far as like what you can actually do for your child during those six hours and playing a one hour game? So it's like, I think the answer is different for everybody, but I think I look at what's right for my kids and my community. I hope that we kind of go more towards the model of like, let's give these kids as much opportunity playing with each other and grow some really strong homegrown programs right in our community so that all these kids have opportunity and not just the kids that can travel to Massachusetts and play an organized hockey tournament.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I appreciate both of you taking the time out of your very busy schedules to come in here and have a conversation with me today. I'm looking forward to actually going up and seeing it for myself. I encourage anybody else who's interested to go up and see it for themselves. This tournament is the main Pond Hockey classic being held February 10th through 12th in Sydney, Maine. We've been speaking with Patrick Garrett, who is the senior program director at the Alfond Youth center in Waterville and the tournament director of the Pond Hockey Classic, and also with Joshua Perry, who is a firefighter and paramedic for the South Portland Fire Department and the captain of two South Portland Fire Department teams at the tournament. Well, good luck. I wish you both all the best.

Patrick Guerette:

Thank you and can't wait to see you in a couple weeks.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

to spend time with Jay Villani, who is the owner of Local 188, Sonny's and Salvage Barbecue and co owner of the newly opened Bunker Brewing Company here in Portland and also the father of a couple kids and the husband of a wonderful artist named Alison. Thanks so much for coming in.

Jay Villani:

Oh, my pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm really fascinated by the fact that you started 18 years ago, with Loco 188, we did. And you've become like this little megalopolis. Oh, in all the best ways.

Jay Villani:

Yes, yes. And, yeah, I've been very fortunate in this town. You know, we started as a. A group of artists who just wanted to hang out with each other and have a place to show our artwork. And it kind of grew organically into what it is today.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now tell me why it's called Local 188.

Jay Villani:

My wife and I had a little gallery prior to opening188 called the Pleasant Street Collective. So we were just sticking with workers movements and themes. It really had nothing to do with, like, the farm to table movement or buy local thing. It was just. It was like a union hall. You know, we just wanted to go with that theme. A place where people can gather and hang and be who they are, you know? And again, it just. It just kind of snowballed into what we have today.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So you originally came from Staten Island?

Jay Villani:

I did. I did. Via New Mexico. It's where I met my wife out in New Mexico. I was traveling out west and landed in Santa Fe and. And met her, and then she got accepted to graduate school back in the city. So I followed her back east. And when she finished graduate school, we went camping up in Millinocket and drove through Portland. On the way back to her parents with some lobsters and said we would give it five years. And here we are 24 years later.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's kind of impressive that you've managed not only to stay together for 24 years, but also have these two children who are 15 and 13, so right in the teenage years, and then you have all of these businesses, so. And you're both artists. It's a lot of kind of energy moving around there.

Jay Villani:

Yeah, it's. You know, it's not. There's some friction sometimes with it, you know, but again, it's not all me. It's who I've been able to surround myself with. You know, I have a lot of great people that I work with who help make this. Come. Make this a reality. So, you know, I can't take all the credit for it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how did you. How did you get interested in food initially?

Jay Villani:

Well, you know, being an artist in New York, the only work I could really find was restaurant work. I just had an aptitude for it. You know, I had a lot of good chefs who told me if I pulled my head out, my. I'd be good at it, you know, and. But I didn't want to. That's I didn't want to be that guy. You know, when I was a kid, you know, there wasn't really any Food Network or, you know, cooking shows. It was just bitter old guys with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths over a stockpot. You know, this is what you got

Joshua Perry:

to look forward to, kid.

Jay Villani:

And it's like, ah, no, no, no. But I was just good at it, you know, I was the kid who got fired on Wednesday and rehired back on Friday because I could handle volume. You know, I just started washing dishes one day. A salad guy didn't show up. You know, can you do this? Like, I'll do it, chef. And then the grill guy didn't show up. I can do that, chef, you know, and that's how I progressed. And really, the impetus for opening my own restaurants was that I could make just as little money working for myself without someone berating me all day, you know, So I just got tired of working for pricks is basically what happened, you know, so. And here we are today. I'm sure some of my employees would, you know, dub me that, but I don't think so.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it is an interesting industry that you work within, because you're right. I think the glamour of food somewhat recent.

Jay Villani:

Oh, yeah, it's within the past, you know, 10 years or so. It's really just boomed, you know, from like a Hollywood perspective.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's crazy, but there's still. I mean, it's hard work. It's hard. It's long hours, it's late at night, and it's hard.

Jay Villani:

Yeah. I think what the real return is is the feedback you get from people on a nightly basis. You know, for better or for worse. You know, the meal was great. It was just subpar. You know, you deal with that on a daily basis.

Patrick Guerette:

It's it.

Jay Villani:

And it's also a long haul thing. It's a marathon, you know, it's. It's not a get rich quick scheme by any stretch of the imagination. You know, with rising costs, you know, margins are really low, you know, and that's. And that's. That's why we have three of them, you know, because it's hard to really make a go with just one. So, you know, but we like the challenge. You know, I really like designing rooms. You know, I've always approached our businesses as sculptures. You know, the energy, the kinetic motion, how they flow, you know, it's. You know, that's what really turns me on about them.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, if you are designing each of your businesses as a sculpture, then how would you describe each of them?

Jay Villani:

Well, you know, local is always going to be my favorite because it was the first one. You know, Sunny's is a very kinetic. You know, it's. You know, the bar scene, the food, the type of food that they're doing there, you know, and salvage is just like a party, you know, it's just like. It's like a mobile, like a Calder mobile, just constantly spinning and whirling and twirling and so much going on. And, you know, it's. It's a lot of fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And then what about the one that you most recently opened?

Jay Villani:

The brewery. The brewery, you know, was a way for me to pay it forward, actually. Creston. My partner, the brewer Creston Sorensen, he was leading our bread program for a few years. You know, he was working out of Sunny's and supplying our restaurants with breads, and he was just a home brewer and kept bringing in beer, and the beer was great. And. And after a few pints one day, he asked me if I was interested in owning a brewery, and seemed like a really good idea at the time, but, you know, it was just. Again, someone did that with me, you know, like my partner Matt, when I wanted to open up something, I had someone there who gave me a little money, gave me some faith, and we were off and running. So it was kind of nice for me to do that with Kreston. It was a good way to pivot also, you know, restaurants are hard and breweries are hard, too, but it was just a nice transition from, like, you know, retail to production. And again, it's the kids who are brewing down there are awesome to be around. And it's just a really. It's a fun experiment right now.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

My experience as a waitress was kind of a. Was brief and very instructive and also incredibly difficult.

Jay Villani:

Yeah, it's a hard gig.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It was very, very difficult. But more of my experience lately has been actually going to restaurants. And I think that what a lot of people believe is that the food is the thing. But what I. And I think food is very important. But what I seem. What I think is most important for me is the feeling is the vibe is how you're treated and what the relationship is with the server and what the server's relationship is with everyone else.

Jay Villani:

Yeah, there has to be connectivity, you know, that's very important to me. You know, that our front of the house and our back of the house are on the same page and that we don't take for granted that people are coming in our Doors and spending their money, you know, and they're here for an experience and what we're trying to provide for them, you know, and I want to get that across to the customer. You know, that's very important to me, that people leave happy, you know, and, you know, we get some feedback that they're not always happy, you know, but those, that's the feedback you really gotta focus on. You know, everyone can blow smoke up your, oh, this is great. What a wonderful meal. Blah, blah, blah, that's awesome. You know, but the person who's upset, you know, you really got to pay attention to it. And how do you, you know, how do you correct that? You know, you're not going to please everybody every time. You know, some people do walk in the door and are just miserable. I mean, there's, your hands are tied, you know, but there's got to be a way to correct it, you know, And I rather have people leave happy or at least know that we tried to make them feel better about their experience than just throw your hands up and say, oh, well, you know, I couldn't help you. So that's, that's never a good thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and it does. At least my experience is that a little goes a long way. If something goes really wrong and somebody just apologizes or does something very small, like would you like a dessert? A dessert, exactly.

Jay Villani:

Or a gift certificate, you know, or it's on me tonight, you know, try us again at a different time. It's a little effort. A little effort. It's kind of same philosophy with my kids. A little effort goes a long way, especially in math. Sonny. That's the name of my son, by the way. So it's kind of trite that Sonny's his name. Sonny. And there you have it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I was gonna ask you about that next. So now that clarifies things for me.

Jay Villani:

Yeah, that's where that came from.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how has it been trying to. If you have local 188, which is 18, so I'm gonna just call this your first child.

Jay Villani:

Yep.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Then you have a 15 year old and a 13 year old. And then you have a few other children that are restaurants, how does that all work?

Jay Villani:

Well, I call them all my kids, you know, even the waiters, the cooks, everyone, they're my kids, you know, so everyone vies for your time. And that's, you know, I've learned to listen over the, over the years. You know, when I first started, I was kind of clueless, so I was. Someone called me a screamer and Control freak, you know, had to be my way, my way, my way. But I quickly learned that I couldn't do it by myself, you know, And I think once I figured that out, we really started to blossom, you know, by empowering people and letting them do their thing and bring to the table and harness what they do best, you know, And I think that's been my greatest attribute as an employer, that I've been able to recognize what people do really well and harness that energy and put it in the context of a bigger picture, you know, and to help push and make things grow.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how do you make that transition from, we'll just call it in quotes, the boss to the boss who listens. Because some people just want to say, listen, I own the business. We're all going to do it my way, and if you don't like it, just leave.

Jay Villani:

Yeah, that just doesn't work that way, you know, or it doesn't work that way for me, you know, it's. It's a. You know, I rather do it collectively as a group, you know, again, going back to the collective, you know, that those principles are very important to me, you know, listening and empowering people. It's kind of like Jedi mind tricks, you know, I could really. I can get out of you what I need with you thinking you gave it to me, and that's. That's important, you know, and making you feel good about it, though, at the same time, you know, that's the other thing. People have to feel good about what they do and what they bring to the table. You know, if I have a general manager who brings something up and I don't pay attention to it, that doesn't do anyone any good. You know, you have to be able to listen and say, okay, implement it. If it doesn't work, you know, maybe we'll try it this way. Or if it worked, great, you know, I would never have thought of doing it that way. Wonderful. You know, so it's all about making people feel good about themselves.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It seems that the hospitality industry, perhaps more than some other industries, has a lot of people who are doing it for a very diverse set of reasons.

Jay Villani:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So some people, it's. It's good for the. The mother's hours are good for their kids, and for some people, they want to spend time on their art.

Patrick Guerette:

Sure.

Jay Villani:

It's very nomadic.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. So how does that work? As the boss who ultimately has to create or work with somebody to create a schedule and get staffing done, how do you work with the sort of. The ebb and flow of people's interests and needs.

Jay Villani:

You just gotta understand, you know, what people do need, you know, and that's, that's the important part of running a company. You know, it's, you know, how can I help you succeed? You know, it's not, you know, do it this way, blah, blah, blah, it's how can I help you? You know, and make us better? You know, And I think that approach has served us very well over the years. You know, as far as scheduling and things. You just got to be open to it, you know, and you find, you know, that you put the right people in the right position who are committed for the long term. And you understand that these people are here for, you know, to do a certain job and to pursue other ambitions. And that's okay. I mean, that's. I mean, that's basically why most people start waiting tables, is because they have a fix they need to support, you know, whether it be art, music or writing or comedy, you know, it's just. That's just the name of the game.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and it also, I've noticed more and more people who are really, they're professional servers, so they're people that take, especially in this area, I would say, people who take great pride in being able to offer a really wonderful experience.

Patrick Guerette:

Sure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And they do it very intentionally.

Jay Villani:

Well, that might change with the tax tip credit that is going away, you know, because people, you know, you know, do it because the money's good, you know, that they could X amount of hours devoted to their job and then X amount of money, other hours to vote to their passions. But, you know, with that compression coming down and, you know, that might not be the trend moving forward, unfortunately, you know, it's gone are the days. Soon we'll be gone the days of making 25, 30, 35 bucks an hour waiting tables, everyone's going to be that flat rate and it's going to be really disruptive. And it's going to be interesting to see, you know, how we as a industry handle that here. You know, because things have been going so well for so long, you know, moving forward, it's going to be a hard thing to tackle.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how has this been tackled in other parts of the world?

Jay Villani:

I don't know. I can't answer that question. You know, I read studies about Seattle and how it's helped and how it hasn't helped. And in New York, same thing. You know, it's just, you know, until it really affects us at home, you know, we're girding ourselves for it, that's for sure. We talk openly with our staff about it, you know, and that changes are coming and we need to be aware of it. And, you know, it's. Prices around town are going to increase and it's going to. It's going to be interesting. I mean, I think, you know, I was pro the minimum wage increase. I think it's very important people make a decent living. You know, I think when it came to the tax tip credit, they were, you know, really trying to fix a problem that didn't exist, you know, And I understand the argument that the little towns up north that don't have the population to really make a server get, you know, a decent living off tips, but you could always pay them more. You know, you didn't, you know, you didn't have to address the hole. You know, it's just, it's. It's interesting, you know, scary and interesting at the same time.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what other scary and interesting things have you observed during your time as a business owner? Maybe just during your time on this planet?

Jay Villani:

Yeah, well, you know, I'm getting old. That's a scary thing. You know, I turned 50 last year, and I'm looking back at my life and I'm very grateful. And, you know, the 35 years. If I have 35 years left, you know, I'll be fired up.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I don't know if that's wood you just knocked on, by the way. I think it's laminate or something.

Jay Villani:

That's okay. That's all right.

Joshua Perry:

It'll.

Jay Villani:

It served its purpose. So, you know, just the, you know, the. That, you know, just the getting old part, you know, watching my kids grow has been wonderful and, you know, watching the people around me grow. But I'm ready to. I've been working in a restaurant since I was 15 years old, you know, and doing this. So 35 years is a. In like chef years, that's like 300. You know, it's a. It's a long haul. So I'm, you know, I'm thinking about how do I step away from it, you know, what are my exit strategies and how do I put things in place to where it could still keep going with, you know, without me really there, you know, so those are. Those are the uncertainties that I'm facing right now.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what are you coming up with?

Jay Villani:

Fishing. I'd like to go fishing. I like to have a turquoise blue water and a fishing boat. And that's pretty much the. My exit plan at the moment. How am I gonna get there? I don't know, but I'll figure it out.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I'm not sure how much turquoise blue water we have.

Jay Villani:

Yeah, no, it's Maine. No, no, I'm Caribbean bound. That's where my. That's where I'm gonna be.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But you do have a love of the Greenville area.

Jay Villani:

I do. It's, you know, my kids and I, we've all gone up there with some other families. We've been going up there for years, camping and fishing and taking advantage up there. It's very gorgeous up there. It's beautiful. You know, it's. It's quiet, it's green water. It's pretty cool.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when you're up there and it's quiet and there's not as much going on, do you ever crave the excitement of your business?

Jay Villani:

No. No. There's usually a campfire involved with copious amounts of wine and other adults who have other kids and we're sticking them in tents and get away from us. It's always a hoot when we go up there, so I shouldn't say it's that quiet, but it's peaceful on a different level.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it sounds like you still have that social connection even when you're up there.

Joshua Perry:

Oh, yeah.

Jay Villani:

Everyone needs that. I need it. You know, it's what keeps me going. People.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, you and I were talking before we came on the air about sort of things happening for a reason, that people's paths cross and you don't really know where things are gonna go sometimes, but you have to just kind of acknowledge that it's not the end.

Patrick Guerette:

Yeah.

Jay Villani:

You know, things happen for reasons, you know, and everyone I've met and been associated with, I'm a firm believer in that. The, you know, the reasons that brought us together, though they might not be clear now, will eventually come, you know, will be made aware of it. You know, I've had a lot of people who've come and go over the years and a lot of people who have been in management and, you know, that even for however brief it is, you know, the reason, you know, you're, you know, there was a young woman who used to work for us, and we shall remain nameless. And, you know, she was just very. Not abrasive, but her management style was very cold and, you know, just forceful. And I sat her down and said, listen, you know, it's. You're a very strong woman and I can you to like a piece of rebar. And I'm the grinder that needs to take those burrs off it, you know, and for, for better or for worse, for however long we're together for, you know, that's my goal with you. And she no longer works with us, but I have a very good relationship with her now outside of that. And I think it was because of that conversation. You know, it's important to be nice to people, you know, or at least compassionate and understanding of what others need. You know, you're not going to get anyone to work for you if you don't understand what they need, you know, or do what you need them to do without, you know, being supportive. So it's very important.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And feedback is also important.

Jay Villani:

Oh yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It seems like sometimes where in other work settings, we don't necessarily get any sort of feedback unless it's like a structured 90 day review.

Jay Villani:

Good, good, bad or indifferent. It's very important. Communication is key. You know, we get together every week and we discuss what's going on. And sometimes it's pedantic, sometimes it's really productive, sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's heated, you know, but we always get together and we discuss, discuss, discuss.

Patrick Guerette:

So.

Jay Villani:

So it's very key.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

When I was having a conversation recently with another couple that own a restaurant, they were talking about the restaurant space as being kind of an interesting other space. So you have your home space, you have your workspace, but then you also have this other space that you go into, whether where you have, you know, you have a meal, you have a communal experience. Sure. And I'm wondering if that's the type of. That's the type of sculpture that you've been trying to create all these years.

Jay Villani:

You know, the greatest feedback or the best feedback I ever got about local was from a couple who used to drive up from Connecticut just to eat with us. And they felt like they were in their living room, you know, So I guess that's, you know, I wanted to create rooms where people wanted to be, you know, or a room that I wanted to be in, you know, so that's very important to me, you know, that type of environment, you know, you know, tapas bars. And the impetus for local was like a tapas bar. And tapas bar is supposed to be very lively, loud, you know, energetic, interactive, you know, that's very important to me that people are able to interact, whether it be with a server, whether it be with food, whether it be people sitting at their table, you know, whether it be they're sitting at the counter, looking at the kitchen, you know, interacting with the cooks and talking to them while they're working that social aspect of it. It's very important to me, you know, and I think we accomplished that at all three of our restaurants. You know, definitely at Sunny's, you know, with just the kinetic and the vibe with the bar and the open kitchen concepts. Local, the same. The barbecue is just a big, giant open st. You know, it's like a hoedown in there most nights, you know, and that's. That's. I think it's great, you know, and the. The downside to big rooms is when there's nobody in them and they're empty and it's like, oh, boy, you know, what's going on here? But, you know, fortunately, that hasn't been the case.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Have you benefited from Portland becoming more of a food hotspot?

Jay Villani:

Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, it has its pluses and minuses. You know, 18 years ago, there weren't that many of us. So, you know, gone are the. Are the 200, 250 cover nights, night in and night out, you know, and there's. It just. But it makes you be more aware of your game and trying to stay on top of it, you know, to still be relevant 18 years later. I'm very fortunate, you know, I feel very lucky and I don't take it for granted, you know, so. But yeah, you know, it's. It's pretty cool, you know, that we're known for, you know, being a food city. It's pretty awesome.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And there also seem to be, at least my experience, I live in the suburbs, and there's a lot of traffic back and forth, so there seems to be more people who come and stay over the winter. It doesn't seem to be that it shuts down so acutely as it once did.

Jay Villani:

Yeah. You know, another thing where local has benefited. We were when we opened up in Longfellow Square, it wasn't really a destination neighborhood, you know, so I was very dependent on local people. So I never really felt the pinch in the wintertime that more touristy neighborhoods felt. But I think that has kind of waned over the years with all the, you know, there's so many new hotels that have opened up and more people come in, you know, year round to enjoy what's going on. You know, it's not just. I mean, we do have a season, but it's not as dire as it once was. Like, you know, January 1st, you know, it's like a ghost town. But we've managed to keep the doors open.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I appreciate your. All of the effort that you've put into the restaurants.

Jay Villani:

Thanks.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I haven't met your children. I'm sure they're wonderful. I'm sure your wife is wonderful. But I know that your restaurants are wonderful and I spent a fair amount of time in them. So I encourage anyone who hasn't been there to go down. I don't know why. If you live anywhere in this area or even visit, I don't know why you wouldn't know about one of these restaurants.

Jay Villani:

Well, it's too kind. Thank you very much.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's delicious food, really wonderful people. Obviously you work with Spencer Albee as our audio producer and he's a musician and he also worked with you for, I guess 10 years off and on. So I'm guessing knowing that how much I like Spencer, there must be some something really great, some great energy.

Jay Villani:

She's a good kid.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. I've been speaking with Jay Vellani, who is the owner of Local 188 Sunnies and Salvage Barbecue and co owner of the newly opened Bunker Brewing Company and also father of two and husband to Allison. Thanks so much for coming in today.

Jay Villani:

Oh, thanks for having me, guys.

Patrick Guerette:

Appreciate it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been listening to Love Maine radio show number 282 Pontake in Portland. Our guests have included Patrick Garrett, Joshua Perry and Jay Villani. For a preview of each week's show, sign up for our e newsletter and like our LoveMain Radio Facebook page, follow me on Twitter as DRLISA and see my running travel, food and wellness photos as bountiful1 on Instagram. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Lovemain radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Pond Hockey and Portland Eating show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.