Pure and Simple #61

Elisa Boxer:

So many Maine moms and dads really care about their kids. They want to do the best they can. They want to get toxins out of the environment. But the chemical industry is very deep pocketed, such a powerful lobby and really does its best to cover up the truth and uses some really intense scare tactics.

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

It's a problem if you have a molecule that enters the body for no reason other than the fact that it happened to be in the plastic container that you were drinking from or the lining of the can you ate from and it finds its way into your body and it latches onto a receptor that's really meant for estrogen and it has other effects.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast Show Number 61, Pure and Simple, airing for the first time on November 11, 2012 on WLOB and WPEI Radio Portland, Maine. Today's guests include children's health advocate Alisa Boxer, Steve Taylor, the program manager for the Environmental Health Strategy center in Portland, and Dr. Doug Dransfield, board member of the main chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility. Environmental health has been one of my interests as a physician for many years. After being a family medicine resident, I went to the University of Massachusetts and studied preventive medicine and got a master's in public health. Part of public health is the health of the environment, and we talked a lot about clean air, clean water, and having a clean and healthy place to grow up. Things have evolved and changed and we've seen people become more and more aware of things like bisphenol A in plastics, lead in our groundwater and on the paint on our houses. I think there's still far to go, but I'm glad that people are paying attention now and I want people to be able to pay attention without feeling scared because there are substances in the environment and substances that do impact our health. But on the other hand, people are working on the problem and there are ways that you can get involved yourself. So we hope you'll take a moment to listen to Elisa, Steve and Dr. Doug Dransfield as they talk about this pure and simple idea and give us very specific ways that we can make sure that our environment is as healthy and safe for our growing children and ourselves as possible. The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is pleased to be sponsored by the University of New England. As part of our collaboration we offer a segment we call Wellness Innovations. This week's Wellness Innovation comes from the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. The environment plays a role in 85% of all diseases. New science is showing that the effects of exposure to chemicals at low doses and in combination can have an impact on human growth and development. Some chemicals, pollutants, foods and other behavioral changes that may have minimal adverse effects in adults may impact a developing fetus and have a long lasting effect on a child's health even into adulthood. Results from studies conducted at the Breast Cancer and Environmental Research center in Cincinnati have added to widespread concern that girls are increasingly entering puberty at an earlier age. These investigators have found a positive association between the early onset of puberty and increased risk of developing breast cancer. For information on this innovation, visit drlisabelisle.com for information on the University of New England, visit une.edu

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The title of today's Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is Pure and Simple. It's an interesting title because it sort of puts out there this notion that we even know what Pure and Simple is these days. There's a lot of stuff going on about the environment and health and how these things interact and what we're supposed to do about it. So we brought in two people who can maybe clarify this and also share some of their own stories and tell us why they think this is an important, important topic. We have sitting across the microphone from me today Elisa Boxer, who is an Emmy winning journalist and I'm so impressed with that, and a nationally recognized environmental health advocate. And also Steven Taylor, who is a program manager for the Environmental Health Strategy center here in Portland. Thank you for coming in and talking with us.

Elisa Boxer:

Thank you. So glad to be here, Elisa.

Steve Taylor:

Yeah, thanks for having us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it was interesting because, Elisa, I had heard your Story. And I heard about your son and I heard about what had gone on in your own life. And then I said, would you like to come on the show and talk about this? Because it went beyond your own personal life to a bigger thing. And you said, well, I would, but I have this other guy and he needs to come in too, because he's really working on this subject. So, Steven, you come very highly recommended.

Steve Taylor:

I guess that's good.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's very good. Let's start with the story. Why are you, yourself, as a mother, as a person who has dealt with some very personal things, interested in this? Yeah.

Elisa Boxer:

Well, almost 10 years ago, we moved into a brand new house. We had just built it and my son and I, he was just born at the time. We got very, very sick. I couldn't breathe, I could barely move. He developed head to toe eczema very, very quickly. Long story short, it turns out we had been reacting to the chemicals in all the new building materials. So the formaldehyde finishes, the new paint and new carpet, people generally think, oh, that's just the new smell. But what the new smell really is very, very toxic chemicals seeping out of products. So as a journalist, I started looking into why I got so sick, how not to get sicker and how to get healthier. And I found out that there were really, really toxic chemicals in these products scientifically linked to all sorts of diseases, from allergies, asthma, eczema, to cancer, all different types of cancers. And these are the products that people use to build their homes. These are the products that are on store shelves. I mean, you can go buy these things and it's perfectly legal to do so. And yet they can be very, very biologically harmful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And Stephen, your background is living. You told me on the phone you lived in New Orleans, and I think that there was some term you gave to sort of all the rivers and the factories.

Steve Taylor:

Sure. I grew up in New Orleans, Louisiana, which is at the sort of bottom end of the Mississippi River. And the stretch of the river between New Orleans and Baton Rouge is known as Cancer Alley because it's basically wall to wall oil refineries and chemical plants. And over the years, those facilities have released all kinds of toxins into the environment that have harmed people and wildlife. The other side of Louisiana is it's a beautiful place. The state motto is Sportsman's Paradise. And so I grew up in a place that has this incredible history of love for nature and the outdoors for life, and at the same time had these incredibly toxic industries releasing deadly chemicals into the environment. And you know, I've worked really all of my adult life to help people get involved in decisions and processes where they can actually speak and think and act to have control over their own lives and their own communities. And now as a parent of a three and a half year old son, I've had to face these issues very directly and personally in the same way that Elisa has and many other parents have, that suddenly you're responsible for this eight or nine pound life. And knowing even as much as I know about the danger of chemicals in everyday products, it's still incredibly difficult for parents to get the information we need to protect our children. And you know, that's what my work and the Environmental Health Strategy Center's work is really about.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's interesting because you talk about Louisiana as the sportsman's paradise and also you talk about the river and we know that there's a connection, there's always been a connection between Louisiana and Maine. Historically there was a connection. And it sounds like environmentally, even though you're way at the other end of the, the sort of the heat belt, I would say we've got very similar sort of natural environments in some ways.

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

Yeah, absolutely.

Steve Taylor:

They're both states with incredible natural beauty. You know, histories of outdoor activity, you know, hunting, fishing, hiking, and so both states where people really value the natural environment and the natural beauty in their states.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So has that made it easier for you in your quest to, to make a pure and simple environment up here in Maine?

Steve Taylor:

Well, it's sort of interesting that nationally there's incredible popular support for getting dangerous chemicals out of everyday consumer and household products. And in fact, even in Maine, government requirements to replace the most dangerous chemicals have 80 to 90% popular support. 70% of registered Republicans, a majority of Tea Party Republicans, support government mandates to get rid of dangerous chemicals when safer alternatives are in fact available. So the problem in Maine and in the rest of the country is not a lack of support for those policies. The problem is the resistance of the chemical industry to policies that will protect our health.

Elisa Boxer:

Clearly a very, very powerful lobby, the chemical industry, because Steve's right, there is so much support. I mean, so many Maine moms and dads really obviously care about their kids. They want to do the best they can. They want to get toxins out of the environment. But the chemical industry is very deep pocketed, such a powerful lobby and really does its best to cover up the truth and uses some really intense scare tactics. And a lot of parents, if they haven't done their own research, buy into that. So that's our job, to raise awareness and let people know, especially when it comes to kids. I mean, it's just so insidious. Lavender scented baby products or baby fresh scent, anything that's kind of marketed this will make your baby smell like a baby. But just like the new car smell or the new house smell, the new baby smell is very, very toxic because there are phthalates in there if there's a fragrance. And that means that it's been scientifically linked to some really, really serious diseases and also things like air freshener. So not just kids, but anything with an artificial fragrance. People think they're doing the right thing by putting a colored gel pack in their bathroom, but what they're really doing is increasing their family's susceptibility to all kinds of diseases. So it's really about raising awareness and, and kind of beating the chemical industry and exposing the truth that they're trying to cover up.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and isn't there something called Body burden that assumes that you're going to be impacted by things in a variety of different ways, whether it's the smells in your baby shampoo or whether it's the thing that you plug into your wall. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?

Elisa Boxer:

Exactly. We can only handle so much. I mean, our bodies are definitely not. And you know this as a, as a doctor, our bodies just aren't designed to detox at the level that we're being exposed to. All of this artificial stuff. Steve can talk about. There was the body burden test. You want to talk about that? Because that's fascinating.

Steve Taylor:

Sure.

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

Yeah.

Steve Taylor:

I think one core problem is that most people assume that synthetic chemicals used in everyday products like carpets and car seats and computers and couches and stay in those products. But we now know, scientists know that they don't. And we know that we're all walking around in what's essentially a giant chemistry experiment. And our bodies absorb the synthetic chemicals that are released into cars and houses and schools. We breathe them in, they're absorbed through our skin. We take them in with food or drink. We may absorb them when we put shampoo or conditioner or lotion on ourselves.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And.

Steve Taylor:

And so through scientific research over the past decade, the federal government and universities and private organizations have actually tested people blood and hair and urine and nails

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

and breast milk, I think.

Steve Taylor:

And breast milk. Exactly. And found out that we're all walking around with several dozen or several hundred synthetic chemicals in our bodies. And in fact, newborn babies, when they come out of the womb in this country already have a couple hundred synthetic chemicals in their newborn bodies that they've absorbed from their mother. So we know that we're all walking around with synthetic chemicals in our bodies. What we don't yet know is which of those chemicals are safe, which might be a little bit harmful and which are highly toxic. We know some of the ones that are highly toxic, but, but we still have a huge data gap. We don't know whether the vast majority of the 80,000 chemicals used in commerce are safe or not. And even worse, even after we know that a chemical is harmful, it's virtually impossible for the government to get it off the market.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now are chemical companies actually required to test whether chemicals are harmful, whether they cause cancer, whether they cause other diseases?

Steve Taylor:

They're not. The companies that manufacture synthetic chemicals are not required to test them for health and safety before they're released into the marketplace. And so that's a large part of the problem.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, one thing that I struggle with, and I have three kids myself, and I'm a physician, I've been a physician a long time now, is that we still need chemicals. I mean, we still have mosquito borne diseases, we still have other diseases that we don't really have a good natural protection against. And that challenges me because I'd like to do what's right. I like my life to be pure and simple. But I also know that we can't tell people in sub Saharan Africa to just use mosquito nets because that's not going to be enough.

Elisa Boxer:

Exactly. And, and that's part of the chemical industry's argument is, well, you can't live in a bubble. What are you going to do? Protect yourself from everything, so you might as well do nothing is kind of the follow up to that. And I always tell parents, since we can't do everything, since there's so much that we can't protect our kids from, protect our families from, we do what we can. And I mean if you can avoid certain chemicals that are scientifically linked to say cancer or hyperactivity in children, a lot of them are, then you've done a great thing for your kids, for your family. So it's really do what you can. Be aware, don't expect to change everything immediately. But just your little corner of the world is really, really important to make changes there.

Steve Taylor:

Yeah, I think the reality is that as you said, chemistry and chemicals are really important. The reality is we don't have a chemistry problem, we have a public policy problem. Chemists, chemical engineers are really smart people. Engineers in general are really smart People, somebody told a bunch of engineers, you have to go create a heat shielding tile that's as thin as a piece of paper that can fly into space. And back on the space shuttle, they did it. Chemical designers and chemical engineers are really smart people. The problem is nobody has ever told them that designing chemicals that are non toxic is a critical part of the design criteria. That's absolutely possible. There's an emerging field called green chemistry which is based on designing chemicals and products using principles like zero toxicity, zero waste, molecular conservation. And you know, that field is really beginning to emerge and grow in this country. So the problem is not that all chemicals are bad by any means. A lot of chemicals are benign, they're not harmful. A lot of chemicals degrade quickly in the environment. On the other hand, some chemicals last for hundreds of years in the environment and are highly toxic to people. And some are in the middle. The problem is that chemical companies are not required to design safe chemicals and they're not required to test the chemicals they design for health and safety. And as we find out which ones are toxic when universities or other scientists research them, there's no way for the government to actually force those dangerous chemicals off the market. So chemistry, chemical design, chemical innovation is brilliant. It's wonderfully important. We need to supplement that with better public policies that actually help us make sure we're designing and using chemicals that

Elisa Boxer:

are actually safe and helping people realize that. Say, you hear a lot about BPA helping people realize that the chemicals that are in their food containers may actually end up in their food. I mean, a lot of these chemicals are not inert like BPA was synthesized in the 1930s as an estrogen replacement. So obviously a very, very potent hormone disruptor. They scrapped it because it was so strong. And then now we have it in bottles and food containers. But people never realized that this estrogen replacement, this fake hormone, would end up in their food. And that's why Maine's done a great job at banning BPA from baby bottles and sippy cups. And we're trying to take it one step further. And there's federal reform based on that. So I think just it's important for people to be aware that these chemicals are actually getting into their food. They're not staying where they might have been intended to stay.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

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Dr. Doug Dransfield:

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Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, let's back up for people who are listening who aren't familiar with bpa, can you give me a little background information on what the chemical is and what it usually is found in?

Steve Taylor:

Sure. As Elisa said, BPA was originally synthesized or invented at the very end of the 19th century. It was developed in the 30s, potentially as an estrogen replacement, and then really started to be marketed for use as an additive in plastics starting in the 50s. And it's a chemical called bisphenol A or BPA. And it's become one of the highest produced, most widely used chemicals in the world. It was the building block of a type of plastic called polycarbonate plastic that until recently, most reusable water bottles like Nalgene bottles, baby bottles, sippy cups, a lot of toys were made out of. Unfortunately, although it was a helpful ingredient in the making polycarbonate plastic, it turned out that it leaches out of those plastics into infant formula or milk in bottles and into water stored in plastic water bottles. And it acts like estrogen in our bodies. And as most women know, very small amounts of hormones, estrogen, testosterone, other hormones, can cause very large changes in our body. And so a very small amount, a tiny amount, parts per billion of BPA can cause very large changes in health impacts in people's bodies. BPA is still very, very widely used in food packaging. It's in epoxy resin that's a coating on a lot of metal packaging. So the underside of some baby food jar lids, the lining of most metal food cans, and it leaches out of that lining into the food or beverage, and then people eat it or drink it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I'm familiar with BPA as a physician, but I think a lot of, maybe physicians aren't all completely familiar with this, and I'm not sure everybody who's listening really understands. If you expose your children to hormones early on in their life, what happens?

Elisa Boxer:

These chemicals can really wreak hormonal havoc. And Steve brought up a really important point, and one of the chemical industry arguments is, oh, it's just a small amount, it's a minute amount, and the dose makes the poison. But as we know, it only takes a minute amount. I mean, look at pharmaceuticals. It only takes a tiny amount to really cause some drastic hormonal changes. So, I mean, there was just a study I read about yesterday showing that even boys are reaching puberty, like, six months to a year earlier. So this stuff can get into the systems of these developing bodies, these little organs, and can really, really wreak hormonal havoc. I mean, it's not just reaching puberty earlier, but, I mean, it's linked to cancers and reproductive problems and behavioral problems. Just a lot of diseases are linked to this particular chemical, and there are obviously so many more like it. So very, very important to be very aware when it comes to our children of not overdosing them with this and other toxic chemicals.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it really can impact their reproductive systems as they seek to have Their own children. So we're not talking about just the generation that we're in. We're talking about the next generation. The next generation. The next generation, exactly.

Steve Taylor:

And some of the most cutting edge scientific research is starting to show us that changes in a person's body can actually cause changes, health impacts, and harm in their children or their grandchildren. It's this emerging science that's called epigenetics. And so it's not only true that exposure at a young age to a chemical like BPA can cause obesity later in life, learning disabilities, breast cancer, other health problems, but some of these chemicals we're exposed to can actually cause changes that persist for several generations.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And is it also true that although we hold things like some of these chemicals in our bodies, we. We also release some of them out into, let's just call it the waste stream. Isn't it also true that we're impacting our groundwater, our drinking water? Talk to me about that a little bit.

Steve Taylor:

Yeah, absolutely. When a product, say a car seat is manufactured, and that product, that car seat contains synthetic chemicals like brominated flame retardants, which are highly toxic, for example, or phthalate chemicals, which are used in many plastics, those chemicals didn't magically appear in the product. They have a life cycle. So those chemicals were produced somewhere in a chemical manufacturing facility. That facility may expose its workers to those chemicals. The people who live nearby may be exposed to emissions. The child and the family that buys and uses that car seat are going to be exposed to the chemicals. But that's not the end of the story. That's not the end of the life cycle. When that car seat or that baby bottle or that food can is taken to a recycling facility or a landfill or a waste incinerator, the chemicals in it may be released into the environment. And in fact, even during the life of the product. And this is what we were saying earlier, that a carpet or a car seat or a couch, the chemicals used in that product escape from it during its life, and so they're released into homes and eventually end up in groundwater, rivers, and in wildlife. There have been studies done in Maine that have found highly toxic chemicals in whales, in peregrine falcons, in other wildlife.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I do want to bring it back around because I think we are also, we're 40 years into the Clean Air or the Clean Water Act. They're both passed around the same time that I was, I guess, born. And we've done a lot of good stuff. I mean, through legislation and people being advocates such as yourselves, we have accomplished a lot. There is a lot that we have done on a national level. It doesn't mean we should stop by any means. What are some things that people, individuals can do? Because I think there is an overwhelm sense, there is a fear sense, and we are never going to get to the pure and simple ground bottom. There's never going to be an actual answer. The right thing all the time we'll

Elisa Boxer:

get to pure and simple enough.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Exactly. So how do we do this?

Elisa Boxer:

My number one tip would be go fragrance free. Whether it's shampoo, soap, deodorant, body lotion. I mean, if it has an artificial fragrance, that means that you're exposing yourself to all kinds of diseases through these toxic chemicals. So even just buying the fragrance free version for yourself or for your child can really make a big difference.

Steve Taylor:

Yeah, certainly there, you know, even given the situation we lived in, where there's a lot of unknowns, there are definitely important things that, you know, parents and individuals and consumers can do. You know, some of the top things are certainly try, try to avoid BPA in your food. You know, buy local food or organic food when you can avoid vinyl PVC products, which are some of the most highly toxic products. So there certainly are things that each of us in our families can do to avoid some of the worst chemicals. You know, we're fortunate that we also live in a state here in Maine where our state legislators and policymakers are very close to the ground. They're, you know, very close to the public. They're very responsive. And if you talk to state legislators, you will hear over and over again that one phone call, one letter, one email, email from one constituent makes a huge difference. Because at the Capitol, they do hear virtually all day, every day from paid lobbyists. And they want to know what their constituents are thinking. And so the two minutes or five minutes it takes to send an email, write a letter, make a phone call and talk to or leave a message for, a state legislator in Maine makes a much, much bigger difference than most people think it does. And that's, you know, in terms of changing policy and really fixing the system, that's probably the single most important thing people can do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And doctors are getting involved in this and other healthcare providers. I mean, we're starting to understand, if we didn't already, that this is important. So, you know, Physicians for Responsibility and other organizations. I think we were talking Alisa before and the Maine Medical association, who we had on the show not too long ago, and the American Maine Academy of Pediatrics. I Think they've all come out and start to understand this.

Elisa Boxer:

And that's really, really important. I went into an allergist's office a few years ago and there was a very, very strong chemical smell. I mean, I think they had used carpet deodorizer. And there are all these families sitting in the waiting room having allergy problems. Go figure. So very, very important for, for the mainstream medical community to be aware of this so they can help their patients.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And for people who you mentioned going fragrance free, you mentioned buying organic and local foods. Well, there are. Okay, two questions. First question is, what about if you're on a limited budget and you can't go buy the more expensive new organic bedding for your room or something? I mean, what are some very simple things that people who just who want to be involved in doing this can do?

Elisa Boxer:

I would say one of the most important things is buy used. You mentioned baby mattresses. I mean really, really toxic flame retardants used in those. And you can even smell it. If you take a brand new conventional baby mattress out of the package, it reeks. And those are all the chemicals. So if you buy one that is a few years old, then you're not exposing your newborn to, to toxic chemicals. Definitely. Secondhand shops are filled with some perfectly good baby products, children's products, where all the chemicals have already outgassed.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I believe there are other resources that people who want to do more than going fragrance free, buying used can look into. So there won't be this sense of fear that there is a sense that you can do what you can do and it's going to be pure and simple enough. So Steve, what are some of your suggestions for finding these resources?

Steve Taylor:

Yeah, well, the sort of best place for one stop shopping is our website, which is www.PreventHarm.org. pretty easy to remember. We have links there to a variety of resources. We've actually been in the process of creating a whole new set of consumer education materials. We've done a series of focus groups around the state this year to make sure we're clear on what parents want and need. So certainly folks can come to our website and can find resources there and links to other resources as well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm glad to note that there is more and more mainstream scientific research that's supporting all the things that you've talked about. Because I do think, say 10 years ago, if you were going to through a chemical sensitivity the way that you described it, not only did people not know enough about it to be helpful from a diagnostic standpoint, say a physician. But there also was a little bit of a crazy factor. Absolutely.

Elisa Boxer:

Oh, people thought that I was a wacko. Yeah. Now not so much because everyone's talking about new building materials and safer products, but absolutely. We have come so far in 10

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

years and I do think that's the message that I'd like to leave with, that it's all about awareness and not feeling fearful or overwhelmed, but being aware, being mindful and doing what you can really, to minimize your families, your own personal exposure to these things.

Elisa Boxer:

Exactly.

Steve Taylor:

And Maine has done a tremendous amount in the past 10 years. You know, our state has adopted policies to get mercury led brominated chemicals out of consumer products. We now have a comprehensive state law that's starting to work on chemicals like bpa. And you know, that has happened exactly because of work done by physicians and moms and dads.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I would encourage all of our listeners to visit preventharm.org and do you have a Facebook presence that we can send people to?

Steve Taylor:

We do. If folks go to our website, they'll see the little icon to click and they can join our page on Facebook book as well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm so appreciative that you've spent this time with me. We've been speaking with Elisa Boxer, an Emmy winning journalist and mother and also nationally recognized environmental health advocate and also Steve Taylor, who is the program manager from the Environmental Health Strategy center here in Portland. I appreciate your time and thank you for all the work you're doing.

Elisa Boxer:

Thank you so much.

Steve Taylor:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's always particularly interesting for me to sit across the microphone from a fellow physician and I'm especially thrilled to have a Physician that I trained with when I was a family medicine resident many years ago. At least our paths crossed somewhat. And it's exciting to know that there are doctors who are going out in the world and thinking about health in a bigger way, the way that I like to think about health. Today I have with me Dr. Doug Dransfield, who is a retired pediatrician and neonatal specialist and a board member on the main chapter for Physicians for Social Responsibility. Thanks for coming in and thank you for having me talking with me about this today. This seems like kind of a radical departure. You know, I remember you in your role in the nicu, the neonatal intensive care unit, and I remember you dealt with very tiny babies. And it was a. There was a lot of technical aspects, aspects to your work. And it's not an easy job. Being a neonatologist is not an easy job. Now you're out there and you're dealing with health in a really different way. So what drew you to be part of the main chapter of the Physicians for Social Responsibility?

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

Well, I was originally drawn to it because of the issue of nuclear weapons. And that actually is the founding principle for psr, Physicians for Social Responsibility. A chapter formed here. There actually were three chapters at one time in Maine. They formed in the early 80s. It was in response to the fact that the Cold War had increased the number of nuclear weapons to such extreme numbers. Also continuing effort to try. Try to educate the public that there was no medical response possible for nuclear weapons. Basically the theme was that physicians had to recognize that when you have something you can't treat, you have to prevent it. That was the organizing theme for PSR for a number of years as we had increasing success with nuclear weapons. All the. There's still a lot to talk about with nuclear weapons and there's still some big problems there. The organization began to realize that it had other responsibilities in the same way for other issues that we couldn't. That we didn't have cures for, that we really only had prevention for. So the issues of climate and environmental changes were first, and then we added to that the issues of toxins. Our own local chapter got very involved in domestic violence education, although that isn't as much of an issue as of the national PSR group. But certainly the toxins have grown in importance for the work of the local chapter. And PSR is one of the members of the alliance for Clean and Healthy Maine, along with another organization I belong to, which is the American Academy of Pediatrics, the main chapter. And that coupled with efforts of the Maine Medical association, increasingly in these areas, forms the basis for why I think we need to do this. It is a big departure from what I did as a neonatologist. I mean it as a neonatologist, I was very concerned about really almost micromanaging physiologic issues with babies that were physiologically terribly unstable because they'd been born very early or because they had congenital malformations or in some cases because they were sick with diseases and was trying to bring a lot of cure to that. Didn't spend much time dealing with prevention. But in my life as a father and as now a grandfather, I think I have a lot of interest in the other side of medicine, which is the public health side of medicine, and therefore was attracted in retirement to give much more energy to PSR and trying to do much more to promote these messages of prevention.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it is related in a way because we know that the environmental, some people call them toxins, some people call them contaminants, but whatever they are chemicals in the environment, they do impact babies and they impact children, and they impact them to a much greater degree than we think than they impact adults. So, you know, it may not seem, seem like there's a direct relationship, but there likely is.

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

Oh, I think there is. And I certainly feel very prepared to think about these issues and to further my learning about these issues because of the background I have in developmental medicine and in pediatrics and absolutely, there's a tremendous difference in how one molecule would act in a fetus as to how it would might act in a two year old or how it would act in me. And as a 65 year old, I mean, those are tremendously different issues. And you know, I mean, since basically my whole professional life has been trying to learn about more things because there was, you know, that graduated in the middle ages, I graduated in 1973. So there's a lot of medicine that's been learned since then, and particularly about genetics and control of biology through genetics and how vulnerable that can be to disruption by molecules that are in some way, not apparently most of the time, but in some ways surprisingly similar to natural molecules that are in our own body and they end up having disruptive effects.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, that's a good segue, I guess, into BPA and the work that's being done with BPA in the state. Talk to us a little bit about that and your experience with it.

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

So bisphenol A is a material that's in plastics, and as I understand it, it's used to harden plastics. It is pretty universally present. And it is one of a group of molecules, chemicals, toxins, depending upon how you're talking about them, that have the ability to disrupt the function of normal hormones in the human body. And particularly that molecule, bpa, interferes with the actions of estrogen in the body. And it's sort of a complex relationship because it's not. You know, when I was taught about poisons and toxins and things that made you sick that were chemicals in medical school, it was this very linear kind of relationship where, you know, you could tolerate a little bit, but if you build up the dose, it would make you sicker and sicker. And it was very much a dose dependent relationship where something became a poison at a point where you exceeded a certain amount. And so a lot of toxicology thinking was all around, you know, what's the safe limit, how much? I mean, of course we're going to have these things around us. How much can we tolerate? So, for instance, Tylenol, a lot of people take Tylenol. Very safe, very effective, wonderful drug. In the right dose, you get up to a high dose, it's a poison, it knocks your liver off, it can kill you. So this thinking of a dose response relationship where a little bit might be safe and a lot might be harmful, was the basis for legislation that passed in 1970, which was the Toxic Substance Control Act, TSCA. But since 1976, we've come to understand that there are these unique molecules like BPA and they behave in a very different way. And what we know about BPA is that it actually has the ability to bind to sites in the body that are called hormone receptors. And just to back up a little bit, the way hormones work in the body is that there is a very small amount of chemical material called a hormone that's produced at a particular place in the body and then released in the bloodstream and has actions at different sites. And it has actions at different sites because those different sites sites have a place for that molecule to go and to lock onto. And when it locks onto that site, the receptor site at the cell level, it then causes changes within that cell that cause the DNA messages that are the controlling messages of that cell to either become active or to get turned off and influence how that cell acts subsequent to that. So it's a problem if you have a molecule that enters the body for no reason other than the fact that it happened to be in the plastic container that you were drinking from, or the lining of the can you ate from, or something, and it finds its way into your body and it latches onto the receptor that's really meant for estrogen and has other effects. And it was that realization that there were these endocrine disruptor materials that began to change the way we started to think about toxins. And because BPA bisphenol A was so universally present and because it had such a potentially dangerous relationships with estrogen action in the body, that became one of the early ones it was focused on. And in Maine, I think the people of Maine should be reassured and pleased with the fact that there was a recognition of this and that agencies like Physicians for Social Responsibility, like the American Medical, like the Maine Medical association, like the American Academy of Pediatrics, joined in this coalition for a clean and healthy Maine and resulted in legislation that limited this product in Maine and in products sold in Maine. And that's really just the beginning of how we need to think about our relationship with our chemical world. And it's a very different way of thinking about it. And it's not at all something that is intuitive or is it something that's easy for people to understand that something could have a profound effect at a low level, then not much of an effect at a mid level and maybe a different effect at a high level because we're always used to thinking about, well, sort of like how you use your gas range. You know, you got a little bit of heat, you turn it up, you got a lot of batteries, a lot of heat. And it's sort of the same analogy with chemicals a little bit you probably can tolerate that. A lot of it you can't tolerate. But it turns out that there's a lot of chemicals that just don't behave that way.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now I remember listening to Dr. Helen Caldicott back when I was a grade schooler come and talk about I know this is dating me but, but nuclear war. And I remember being terrified by the movie that she showed in our school, and there was a lot of attention paid to that. And I remember Dr. Caldicott being somewhat viewed as a little fringy, a little bit. It was very polarizing. Did you experience any of this as a physician working with the main chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility when you started?

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

I think there was, yeah, skepticism. And I wouldn't say that. I mean, she was so much the face and voice of PSR in those years. And she really became sort of the lightning rod for people that wanted to criticize thinking this way. So I didn't experience anything near what she experienced.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how did other physicians accept you when you were or respond to you, I guess when you first started this whole process?

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

Well, I guess I don't know, really, to be quite honest about it. You know, I have good friends that I don't talk about this with much, and I have other friends that are very involved in it. So it's like a lot of things that can potentially be divisive, whether it's religion or politics or sexual preference or whatever. Sometimes you just go along to get along a little bit and you sort of downplay things. That doesn't mean that the values that you hold are really not important values to you or things that you feel strongly about. That's just that you don't sort of choose the time when you make those. The thing you're defining yourself with.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what have you learned from your experience working with this?

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

Excellent question. I've learned a great deal about the public health aspects of the environmental issues and the chemical issues. Those were things that I, like most people in my generation, were pretty naive about. You know, we were brought up in the 50s and 60s where, geez, every day there seemed to be some new chemical thing that was great. And, you know, that science was sweeping us forward and there were all these advances and, you know, whether it was Jiffy Pop or going to the moon, it was. Was great. You know, there was always something new. And, you know, I mean, that's sort of been human experience right along that you do things and you explore things and you learn things, and then there's some consequences to what we're doing. And maybe we need to look at this in a different way. And so we're in that re. Examination period and it's. It's harder to get the message through, I think, to people that started out thinking about things in one way and now are being asked to think about things in a different way. My delight is that as young people come along, gosh, I feel I'm so old saying that. But when I look at my grandchildren, for instance, I mean, you know, they just, they are very attuned to the fact that things are very interactive in their world and that of course you need to think about possibly not apparent effects of things and that just like there's hidden things in their video game that they can discover, there's hidden things in the world they can discover. And that just because things appear to act in a certain way doesn't mean that that's actually how, in fact, the sum total of how they're acting.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How can people learn more about the Physicians for Responsibility main chapter?

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

Very easily. The executive director for our group would want me to say right now, look for us on Facebook. I'm a Facebook newbie and I know nothing about Facebook, but PSR does have Facebook presence there and you can find us there. And then more traditionally for me is the Internet. So you can look for PSR.org which is the national organization and there's a button, pull down button screen there for chapters and you'll find the main chapter and you can see all about what we're up to. But yeah, if you friend us on Facebook, you'll get, gee, every couple days you'll get something that has to do with the environment or with toxins or other things that PSR is very involved in. Not necessarily things that we're doing directly, but links to things that are important to know about.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's been a pleasure for me to spend time with you. Dr. Doug Dransfield, who is on the Board of Directors for the Maine Chapter for Physicians for Main Chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility and also somebody who had a hand in my teaching as a family medicine resident, a colleague of my father's, previously at the Maine Medical Center. So lots of different Maine connections going on. I value the time you've taken to be here today.

Dr. Doug Dransfield:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you've been listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast Show Number 61, Pure and Simple, airing for the first time on November 11, 2012 on WLOB and WPEI Radio Portland, Maine. This show and all past shows are available for download for free on itunes. Additional information on today's guests, Elisa Boxer, Children's health advocate, Steve P. Taylor of the Environmental Health Strategy center and Dr. Doug Dransfield of Physicians for Social Responsibility Maine can be found on the Dr. Lisa website. Dr. Lisa.org for more information on this show and other upcoming shows like us on Facebook and be sure that we're part of your interests feed. Please also take the time to support support our sponsors and let them know that you heard about them on our show. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. Thank you for being part of our world. May you have a bountiful life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

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