Pushing Limits #128

Shelley Koenig:

You're not thinking about what are you going to do tomorrow? You're not going to think about your life problems that you need to solve. You've pushed so hard far past any of that that your mind is just thinking right leg, lift up and put foot forward and the only sounds you hear are the sounds of the twigs breaking underneath your feet and the smells of the forest around you. And for me, I have to sometimes break myself down to that raw of an existence to really feel alive.

Eric Denny:

In Outward Bound, we put people into challenges, primarily in the wilderness environment on expeditions, and it's when all three of those pieces come together the challenge emotionally, the challenge mentally and the challenge physically, that gets people to a deeper place of understanding. And when they can take on those challenges that have those three components and overcome them, the experience is visceral and they draw on them later in life, which is a huge impact.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 128, Pushing Limits, airing for the first time on Sunday, February 23rd, 2014. Today's guests include Shelly Koenig, Ultra Distance obstacle Racer and Eric Denny, Executive Director of the Hurricane Island Outward Bound School. We can never be entirely sure where our limits may be. As we live our lives, we develop a comfort zone within which we tend to stay. When given the opportunity to move out of this zone, we realize that limitations we may have thought existed are not real. Today's guests regularly work outside of perceived limitations. Ultra distance obstacle racer Shelley Koenig pushes herself to engage in physical feats that most of us would never attempt. Eric Denny helps individuals push past their limits through the Hurricane Island Outward Bound School. We hope that their stories will inspire you to reconsider what your limits may be and perhaps seek to push past them and discover what might be found. Thank you for Joining us,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

we know

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

that making change can be challenging and often requires us to push beyond limits

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

that perhaps we've constructed for ourselves or

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

maybe we feel have been constructed around us. Today we're going to speak with Shelly Koenig, who is a competitive endurance obstacle and adventure racer, mother of two and high school chemistry teacher at CARE Bassett Valley Academy. Shelly is someone who knows what it's like to push beyond limits.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Thanks for coming in and speaking with us today.

Shelley Koenig:

Thank you for having me, Shelly.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'd like to start with reading from

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

an article in the Sugarloaf issue that was written about you, which is called Hole beyond the Breaking Point.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And this was written by Sophie Nelson.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

After days of little to no sleep and coldness and wetness and dozens of miles and obstacles for the sake of obstacles, Shelly Koenig, high school chemistry teacher and mother of two, was presented with a 60 pound backpack and told to hike eight miles up a mountain and back. Saturated with exhaustion, with her heart at her feet and her gut in her mouth, Koenig somehow managed to get the backpack on and, and buckling under the weight of it, walked toward the trailhead. Then she fell on the weighted pack like a beetle on its back. Next, there were tears and overwhelming doubt. And finally, one faithful stranger and some deep seated strength that brought her up and down. And through the rest of the course, Koenig never gave up. In the Spartan Summer Death Race, which in the world of obstacle and adventure racing means a win, an admission into an elite group of crazy brave individuals who know themselves in ways most of us never will. Or so she tells me. And so I'm inclined to believe. Why does one take part in something

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

called the Spartan Summer Death Race?

Shelley Koenig:

That's a great question. I think, you know, truthfully, from all the people that I've talked to that do the Death Race, I think there's a lot of different reasons why people show up on the starting line. I think we all have our own stories. You know, for me, my own story I think really just came down to the fact that, you know, after having two kids and sort of moving away from my former life as an athlete and my former life with my own living for myself, I guess, and having spent the last nine years as mommy, I guess I wondered if I could do it. It's a race that very few people finish. They usually have about a 10 to 15% finisher rate. And generally speaking, most of the people that show up to start are already well prepared. There's a lot of military, big military presence, a lot of Endurance athletes. So, you know, I guess I felt like if I was going to try to do something challenging, I might as well shoot for the top. And so that's sort of what I, what motivated me to get into it. Probably different than the reasons I'm still doing it now. You know, going the first time you do for one reason, going back a second time, you have very different set of reasons. But for me, I think it was just, you know, I'm pushing 40 and I wanted to see if I still had that in me or not.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What type of an athlete were you previously?

Shelley Koenig:

Not a super athlete. You know, high school and college, I was competitive in both running and alpine skiing. After college, you know, I sort of moved away from competitive athletics. I think I was tired of the pressure I'd put on myself all those years to compete. And I moved into a lot more outdoor oriented activities that were much less competitive, you know, distance backpacking, things of that nature. And so, you know, it was a good, probably a good 10 year lull between competitions when I decided that I wanted to see, see what was in me, to see what was still possible.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You work with competitive athletes at the high school level. Even now you're a chemistry teacher and

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

you're teaching kids who are really hoping

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

to go on and do things nationally and internationally with ski.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What's that like for you?

Shelley Koenig:

Well, that's part of the inspiration for me. You know, I think as adults in the community at cva, it's really important that we role model lifelong health, lifelong fitness. You know, fitness isn't something that when you turn 18 and you go into college, you abandon that and move to the next phase. You know, some of our kids do continue to compete through college or beyond. You know, I mean, we certainly have some really successful elite athletes and Olympians, but for the majority of kids, you know, most of them go on to college and they go on to, you know, a desk job or a career. And, you know, I hope that I can inspire kids to realize, hey, even the teachers at cva, you know, they value fitness. They value the holistic approach to living as opposed to, you know, focusing on one thing and putting all of your energy there and letting the rest of your life crumble around you. So, you know, I think fitness is a really important thing that we should all, you know, in some way keep in our lives. And so I like to have the kids be part of what I'm doing, which is very similar, but different to what they do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What is it like to try to

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

get high school kids Interested in chemistry

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

if they are simultaneously very, very interested in skiing.

Shelley Koenig:

Well, you know, I have found over the years that once I can connect with kids at whatever level it might be, and sometimes it is on an athletic level. You know, once I can connect with them and they realize that we have something in common and we value athletics, sometimes that in itself is something that allows me to be able to bring them into chemistry and carry that through. So sometimes that's a bit of the connector. A lot of our kids are also, they're high achieving kids and so many of them are already quite motivated. So once they find something that they're interested in, it's not, it's not all that hard to keep them engaged in chemistry or. I teach earth science and physical science as well. So, you know, in science in general, most of our kids are pretty excited about it. So they make it easy for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have two small children, smallish, I

Shelley Koenig:

guess, seven and nine now.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Seven and nine. And you've always sort of, well, you've known children who are slightly older and you've known yourself and your own competitive mind. What is it like to be a mother and be thinking about, okay, are my kids going to grow up as skiers? Are my kids going to grow, grow up as runners? How does that work for you?

Shelley Koenig:

You know, I don't want to make those decisions for my kids as to what their passions will be. I think that, you know, once they find something they're passionate about, it's a lot easier for them to carry that through. But I do think that if they learn to be active as kids, I think that becomes part of their lifestyle. It doesn't become something where, you know, they have to get up and say, okay, how am I going to work out today? You know, they're kids, they don't think about that. You either provide them the opportunity to get out, get fresh air, be activ and enjoy that, or they don't learn that as a kid and then they have to learn it forcefully when they're adults. So, you know, I think my husband and I both agree that, you know, there's no particular sport that we push on them, nor do we have any expectations of them for results or as competitors. But, you know, we certainly do expect, you know, our family, we're active, we move, we go, and they're part of that. And you know, it's funny how, you know, they see you role model something and they want to do it. You know, my kids have been watching this whole thing, obstacle racing thing unfold over the Last couple years and in the last 12 months, they've, they want to do it. So they've set up their own little miniature obstacle course in the woods with limited success. Some of their challenges, they don't always work the way they had them planned. But they've done two Spartan races with me, they do. They have a kids race, so they've done that. I did one this past weekend and they really wanted to come, but we couldn't logistically make that work. And, you know, they both love skiing, so they're both, you know, they do a season long ski program up at Sugarloaf. They look forward to every weekend. So, you know, I think just role modeling it, they pick it up and they see the kids at cva. You know, my son Noah has already decided at age nine that he will come to CVA and he will do the Alps program. And there's no discussion, mom, I will be doing that. So, you know, it's, it's pretty easy to make them love it, especially when you love it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Sugarloaf really is in your blood. Your family has had a house up there. You call yourself a sugarloafer since 1973.

Shelley Koenig:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I mean, technically, I think I didn't

Shelley Koenig:

start skiing then, so I don't know if that counts.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Right, right. But still, your family was already there. Did that influence your love of Sugarloaf, your love of skiing and the person that you are now?

Shelley Koenig:

Oh, no doubt. Absolutely. You know, anybody who's been up to Sugarloaf knows how just magical it is. You know, as a kid, we were up there every weekend, season long programs, you know, from age 5 on. In the summers we would come up sometimes just to get away. I grew up in Auburn, and so, you know, it was very close by. And my parents had a camp that we would come up to, you know, fall, spring, summer, but really in the winter we were up there a lot and, and I moved away and I moved as far west as Idaho and was convinced I was destined for the west coast. And there's something really magical about it. You know, when a job opportunity sort of popped up, it was actually kind of random the way it all worked. And I thought, you know, I have a chance to live up at Sugarloaf and work at CVA from that point on, like there was no decision to be made because it's just there's a very strong pull for me to come back, so never looked back.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And was your husband able to find

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

a job up in that area as well?

Shelley Koenig:

When we came up, we came up knowing that if we couldn't both find jobs, it wasn't going to work for us. So we came up and we both. We applied as a couple and both started at CVA the same year. So, yeah, we did it together.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And that's kind of unusual.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I mean, sometimes the reason that people can't move back to Maine is that one or the other in a couple isn't able to find a job.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that's pretty fortunate.

Shelley Koenig:

Yeah, unbelievably. Yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of friends that, you know, live in cities, have amazing jobs, and every time I see them, they say to me, I gotta make a change. I want to come back to Maine. I love Maine, but they just can't find a way to make it work. So I do feel really lucky, and I do realize that, you know, that opportunity, at the time, I didn't realize what an amazing opportunity it was, but I'm glad I jumped on it because I look back now and realize how hard it would be. We were in D.C. the year that we made the jump. And I have some friends that are still there, and they still say, gosh, I just. I don't love living in the suburbs here. It's not for me. My blood is in Maine. But they just. They love their jobs, they're passionate about what they do, and they can't find that opportunity here. But hopefully, you know, Maine seems to be. Seems to be growing, and hopefully those opportunities, if people look hard enough or make their own opportunities, they can do it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What's it like to work with your husband?

Shelley Koenig:

I don't know any other way, to be honest with you. We met when I was in graduate school. We were in the same program. We did that one year in D.C. where we did work at separate schools. We never saw each other at all. And then ever since that one year, we've both been at CVA. I think it's been 13 years. So I don't really know what it would be like to not work with him. So it's great. You know, I think for some people that have never worked with their spouse, and then all of a sudden, they have to find a way to work together professionally. It may be challenging if you have your own space, sort of cut out, and someone feels like they're kind of invading that. But no, I mean, Dave and I are both in the same department. Our math and science department is four people, and we're two of the four. But I think we work pretty well together. Sometimes the kids will have double koenig math and science blocks. I'm not sure if the kids would agree with that. They go directly from his class to mine, but they think that we conspire over dinner when we're gonna have tests and quizzes and Maybe you do. Yeah, I'll leave it like this. Maybe we do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Here on the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

and Podcast, we've long recognized the link between health and and wealth. Here to speak more on the topic is Tom Shepard of Shepherd Financial.

[Unidentified voice]:

I'm a lacrosse player still. It's something I've been doing for more years than I can remember. Over the years, I've had my share of aches and pains, scrapes and disappointments. But regardless of what happened in the last game, I always look forward to the next one. Because each time I gear up and step onto the playing field, I know I'm there to push myself to new limits. To ignore the perceived limits of my 40 plus years and attack the game with the same gusto and joy as I did when I was younger. And each time I do this, I feel a great sense of accomplishment. Not because of the score or who won or lost, but because I challenged myself. I push forward knowing that in those fleeting moments of game time, I'm growing and experiencing life to the fullest, limits be damned. If you want to push on in your own financial evolution, give me a call 207-847-4032. I'll help you evolve with your money.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So it sounds like even though what you're doing is physical, the bigger part for you is sort of the mental, emotional piece.

Shelley Koenig:

Yeah, I mean, there's really two different types of events. I go to some of the shorter distance events. This weekend I went to a spartan race in Fenway Park. It was, you know, three miles long, running up and down stadium stairs, carrying sandbags and, you know, more sort of a plyometric crossfit sort of thing for that. Absolutely not. I go to that because it is fun. It's fun to throw yourself over walls and climb up a rope as fast as you can and, you know, run up and down Fenway through Fenway Park. There's no question the longer, more grueling events. You know, I reserve just a couple a year. That's not something I can bang out once a month. I have some friends that do. I mean, I have a friend that just did five consecutive Ironman triathlons, all in one. I think he did it in 90 hours. Maybe I could actually look that up. But actually, I had two friends that completed that event. So, you know, there's some people that need to do that more frequently than I do. You know, for me, a couple times a year for that emotional piece. And, you know, interestingly, you wouldn't think this, but in those really long events, another piece of it is the camaraderie that you experience with other people that are out there, sort of. You know, some of my friends have. Are dealing with cancer. Some of my friends are dealing with loss of children. You know, some of my friends have these amazing stories of things they've been wrestling with, and that's why they are out there doing it. And those things come out in those hours that you spend together. And, you know, 70 hours with somebody in a death race is sort of like spending a mini lifetime with them, you know, and the camaraderie and support that I get from that community of people who do these events is a very important part of my life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You're also a tough mudder, from what I understand.

Shelley Koenig:

Yep, yep. Tell me about that tough mudder and the. Well, yeah, the tough mudder. We did a couple of those. That was sort of what started all of this madness. A couple of years ago, my friend Lani, who is my ultimate partner in crime. I mean, we train together all the time. She can't always go to the events that I go to because she has a summertime. She's a canoe guide. And so her business in the summertime is very consuming. And that's when I can do a lot of my events because I'm a teacher, and that's When I'm off. So Lani and I did our first Tough Mudder together two years, two and a half years ago. And I mean, we honestly laughed the entire time. And to think of what that takes out of you to giggle for four hours straight. I mean, honestly, I think what hurt most after the event was my stomach from laughing. I mean, we'd go through, you know, these horrible mud pits and, you know, stained, colored, dyed obstacles. And I'd look over at her and I'd say, you look terrible. And she'd look back at me and say, what do you think? You look great. And you know, I mean, we just, just laughing at ourselves. It was just so much fun to kind of break free of, you know, whatever we're expected to do on a daily basis and just be kids, you know, 40 year old kids playing in the mud. So after that event, that was sort of what inspired us. We thought, well, if we can do one, why don't we do 24 hours of tough Mudder? So we signed up for the 24 hour world mudder, which actually that event this year just happened this past weekend. But two years ago we were involved in that and that was the first endurance event that I ever signed up for. We didn't really make it the whole time, so I can't really say that I did. 24 hours. We were there for 24 hours, but we succumbed to cold. We were not prepared for how cold it was. It was in New Jersey on December 18th and we were breaking through the ice with our hands. Trying to get on the obstacles with just a 23 millimeter wetsuit was all both of us had and wasn't nearly enough. So, yes, we've done those. That was sort of the gateway. Tough Mudder is a gateway, but I would do more, I would go back. They're really fun. I'm not hugely keen on the shocking part. Sometimes you get it and sometimes you don't, but when you get it, it hurts. So that's one of the reasons why I don't do a lot of those events. I like the Spartan events now just because, number one, I don't get shocked. But number two, they're more physical challenges as opposed to mental challenges. You know, hucking yourself in a bucket of ice water to me is a mental challenge. You know, I think that whether I'm fit or not fit, all I have to do is get the courage to just dump myself in it and I'm there. Whereas, you know, the Spartan obstacles, you know, you fail them or you succeed them based on, you know, were you strong enough to make it? Could you pull yourself up and over something, or are you taking a penalty because you couldn't?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I want to back up and

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

ask about this shocking thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You mean an actual electric shock is applied to you?

Shelley Koenig:

They have these little wires that hang down. There's actually a couple of obstacles now that have them, but these little wires, they look like little tentacles that hang down, and they're so close together, you can't avoid them. You will hit them. Some of them have 10,000 volts in them. Now, I don't really know in terms of amps what that is and how that translates, but I can tell you that when you hit the. The big shockers, it'll drop you to the ground. I mean, you just. You lose muscle control and you're on the ground, and if that same one is still hanging above you, if you haven't thrown yourself forward, then when you try to get up, it's going to get you again in the back. And so, you know, I've seen people multiple times, they try to get up right back down. And one time, Lanny and I were running together and we thought it would be a good idea to hold hands and support each other while we ran through. I hit one of the big guys and I felt it, but it wasn't terribly painful, but I felt it pass through my body. And it passed into her body and knocked her down. I mean, took her out. And, you know, the next thing I knew, I was on the other end of the obstacle and Lani was still laying in a pit of a little electric volts hanging over her with a broken finger, turns out, you know, so that part for me, you know, makes it. That's mentally hard for me to keep going back over and over again for that. And the tough mudders, you know, they usually have a couple of those challenges per lap. I do it again, but not once a month.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now, please don't take me judgmental because I embrace whatever this is that. I mean, there's so much about what you're describing that sounds really great and really positive. But that piece seems so extreme. And the fact that this sort of thing is out there and people are doing it more and more. What does that say, do you think?

Shelley Koenig:

I don't know. But I can tell you that at a tough mudder event, anybody who goes into it knows about the shocks. And I would say at a typical tough mudder event that I've been to, over the course of two days, it probably draws 14 or 15,000 people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So, I don't know, just venture a guess as to why we like this sort of thing or why some of us feel like this is a good idea.

Shelley Koenig:

I don't know if I have a really good answer for that question. I think that there definitely is a piece of appeal of just doing something because you can, because it's a little crazy. And people, I think, are tired of being safe. I think people are tired of, you know, sitting at their desks all day long, not feeling like they've done anything dangerous or unsafe. And, you know, I mean, it's unsafe to an extent. It's not like driving your car 150 miles an hour down the interstate where you're really gonna. You know, the worst case, you're gonna fall face first in the mud. Probably have your. You know, there's a certain amount of dignity that's lost when you go face first in the mud. But, you know, apart from bruised dignity and, you know, maybe a broken finger, you know, really unlucky people, I guess, you know, sometimes. But you can break your leg, twist an ankle jogging through a park, too, you know, so when you look at 15,000 people, if I took 15,000 people who went on a Sunday jog through a park, one or two of them might break a leg if they fell in a hole or something, you know, so. So, you know, the injury rate really isn't as high as you would think. So I think it is a little bit about kind of that safe but not safe zone that people like to be in. You know, the tough mudders are a lot more popular than the real extreme endurance events that, you know, death race or the fuego we agua survival run. You know, those races will only have anywhere between 50 and 300 competitors maximum. But those tough mudders, you know, there's a lot of people that are seeking a little bit, a little taste of it. So I'm not alone.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And again, I want to go back to this notion that there's no judgment implied. Please. I just. I think sometimes I just.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I don't know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's very interesting. Just from a cultural standpoint, you know, where we've come from. You're right. I think that maybe we've come from a place where things were less safe and people didn't need to seek unsafe things. And now we are in a relatively safe place, or at least we like to believe that we are. So maybe we feel like reaching out for something that isn't quite as safe,

Shelley Koenig:

isn't quite as sterile.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Sterile. Maybe that's the word yeah. But the other thing I want to come back to, too, is there are people who are listening to our conversation don't have to think to themselves, well, I don't ever want to run a tough mudder race, or I don't want to do a Spartan death race. I don't want to do all these extreme things, but I do want to push myself somehow. So what are some things that you could suggest to people who have been listening and really kind of want to start pushing themselves a little bit? It. But their edge isn't quite as far out as yours?

Shelley Koenig:

Absolutely. You know, I think the number one thing that I would say to people that are looking to get out of their comfort zone, number one, is to find. You know, it's always so abstract to say, set a goal. I mean, we all know that setting goals is important, but it's so hard to say, well, I want to be fitter. You know, I want to be stronger. Well, how do you measure that? Or how is that attained? I think the most successful people find an event of something that they're interested in. It doesn't have to be a marathon. It doesn't have to be, you know, of any distance. But all it has to be is a commitment to yourself that you're going to prepare for a particular event in time. It has a date, it has a time, and it has, you know, it has a certain set of expectations. Okay, it's a 5k run that I'm going to do, so I need to be able to run 5K. And I have, you know, 33 months to prepare myself for that. I think that first step is the hardest one for people to take. They sit in the stage of, I really want to do this, but I don't know how for so long that they just become overwhelmed. You know, I was just. I was chatting with somebody earlier today who said, you know, I go into the gym and I'm overwhelmed. I want to just do everything. I see all the classes and I see all of the equipment, and I want to do it all. And I go in and I spend two hours in the gym, and I burn myself out. And then I don't go back for a month because it just. I don't have the energy to do that every day. And that's not the way to start. You know, the way to start is to pick something that's fun, pick something with friends that will hold you accountable. And then, you know, if it's a 5k race that you pick, you know, start by walking, start by going out and, you know, say, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna walk a mile every day this week, and then next week maybe you're gonna go a little longer, or maybe you'll pick it up to a jog, you know, every week, say, okay, well, what did I do last week?

Eric Denny:

Week?

Shelley Koenig:

And just kind of grab it up one more step, you know, I mean, I have to say that one of the things I love about the Spartan races, they have all different distances, and so they have their. They have their death race, then they have their ultra Beast, which is a marathon distance, which those two events probably aren't for everybody. But their main events are a Beast, which is about 13 miles, a Super, which is about eight in a sprint, which generally is about three, three to five. And what I love about kind of getting people excited about those events is it's not just running. So people who say, you know, I have shin splints and running is just miserable, and I go out and I just. It's not fun. I don't enjoy it. You know, these events, it's like, you know, you run for, you know, five minutes at a time, and then you have to stop and do a balance obstacle, you know, so it changes your focus, and it's like a giant playground, you know, and to train for it, you don't just run. You know, you go in and you don't even need to go to a gym. You know, you just work on things like body weight exercises, you know, try a few push ups, try a few air squats, you know, different ways of strengthening your body that are a little bit more dynamic and fun than just going out to run. You know, I personally, I am a runner, so I love to just go out and run when I have the chance to just run. Like, that's. For me, that's kind of where I find, you know, I have my little Zen workouts and those I love. But I understand that's not for everybody, but it doesn't mean that fitness can't be for everybody. You know, you just find something you love. If you love to swim, find some event that involves swimming next summer and then make baby steps of goals of, you know, improving yourself to the best of your ability up to that event. And then when that event is over, you know, for most people, it's really easy to sign up for their second. It's really easy to say, okay, I'm gonna look six months out and pick another cause. That was awesome, and I want to have that feeling again. So, you know, usually after you get one done. Most people don't have difficulty motivating to do another one.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Shelley, we appreciate you coming in and talking to us today about pushing limits. We've been speaking with Shelly Koenig, a competitive endurance obstacle and adventure racer, mother of two, and high school chemistry teacher at Carabassett Valley Academy. You can read more about Shelly in the December 2013 Sugarloaf issue of Maine Magazine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Thanks for all the work you're doing to inspire the kids of the Carabassett Valley Academy. And thanks for coming in and inspiring us today.

Shelley Koenig:

Thank you for having me. It was fun.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As a physician and small business owner,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I rely on Marcie Booth from Booth,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Maine to help me with my own business and to help me live my own life fully. Here are a few thoughts from Marcy

[Unidentified voice]:

Sometimes I get scared. While it's difficult to admit to anyone, much less myself, there are times when what lies before me stops me in my tracks and makes me feel that I can't go on. That's when I know I have to dig deep, take a deep breath, step outside my comfort zone and move ahead. Each time I do that, I grow and learn something new about myself and what it means to not be daunted by fear of the unknown. I talk of this often with my clients by helping them understand that while some decisions can be scary and make you feel uncomfortable, none should frighten you into inaction. That only limits progress and they should be seen as growth opportunities. A mantra we use at our offices at Booth is power through. So if something is holding you back today, my advice to you is power through. I'm Marcie Booth. Let's talk about the changes you need. Boothmaine.com

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

i've done quite a bit of traveling around the state of Maine and I've seen the turnoffs for various intriguing places. Twice I've seen turnoffs for the Hurricane Island Outward Bound School, one up near Sunday river and one right off the coast of Maine. And it always makes me think, what are they doing down there? And why is it that I keep being so intrigued? So today we have Eric Denny, who is the executive director of the Hurricane Island Outward Bound School, in to talk to me and us and all the people, all of you who are listening about the Outward Bound School and the intriguing things that are going on there. Thanks for coming in.

Eric Denny:

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Eric, you're not originally a Mainer, but you've had Maine experiences all your life and these have contributed to your doing what you do now.

Eric Denny:

Absolutely, yeah. I'm not a Mainer in the classic clinical definition of being a Mainer, which is probably generations and generations of Denny's, but I was an island kid on Swan's island from the time I was born, and it's been my anchor point. We moved around a lot when I was a kid, but every summer we'd get up to Swan's island and that's where home was for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Swan's island is kind of a special place. I've only sort of been by it on the ferry. I've been out to Frenchborough and there's something really interesting about that island.

Eric Denny:

There is, as you know, there's not a whole lot of commercial activity as far as tourism goes. It's really Fisherman's island and there's one teeny weeny general store and it really pulls the community together, both the folks who are living there year round as well as the islanders. There's not that sort of summer resident islander type of dynamic that you find on some of the other islands.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Why did your family end up there?

Eric Denny:

Because it was quiet and because my father, who was a Unitarian minister, felt like it was a soulful place. And to this day that resonates with me still. And my kids now are going up there and it's great to. I have kids in elementary school and they write about different experience that they have in their life and many times their touch point on what is most special is their time at Swan's island, not just with the island environment, but with the family and the community, which is wonderful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've had Philip Conkling from the Island Institute, or formerly of the Island Institute Institute on twice to talk about islands and the ocean and Maine and the specialness of it and how it really impacts people deeply. This is something that Hurricane island and Outward Bound understands. This is sort of one of your things. How did this originally come to be?

Eric Denny:

The founder of the Hurricane Island Outward Bound school was an educator at Andover. His name was Peter Willauer, and he was a lifelong sailor and has had a famine place on Prouts. He was touched at one point in his educational career with a fellow by the name of Josh Minor. And Josh Minor was the individual who brought Outward Bound over to the US back in the early 60s. And Peter fell in love with educational outcomes, the pedagogy of adventure and being a sailor. And Outward Bound at that point being a very land and mountain based program here in this country. Peter thought there's no better way to educate for character and for tenacity and for resilience and grit and service and community than being on a boat, because that was his touch point in terms of an expedition medium. So he sailed around the coast of Maine in 1962, 1963, and it was recommended to him that he see this island 12 miles off the coast of Rockland, this bold island called Hurricane, that used to have a vibrant quarrying community on it. And when he got there, it was overgrown. It was the great spruce jungle. But it had this fantastic quarry face where a school could do rock climbing. It had a great anchorage for boats. And that was the spot. It took him about 10 seconds to realize that this was a magical place. So in 1964, the first students came to the Hurricane Allen Outward Bound School and actually started building up the buildings and the infrastructure and heading out on expeditions to learn, not for the sea, but through the sea, things about community and service and leadership.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This was another thing that I was struck by when reading one of Philip Conkling's books, which was that quarrying was such a big deal off the coast of Maine. And the nice thing about having these big sheets of rock and the boats nearby is that you could transport them. And it's just another example of something that we come across interviewing people on the show all the time, which is that Mainers use their resources. So maybe it's not a quarrying community anymore on Hurricane island, but now it's a different sort of community and people who are using the rocks in a different way.

Eric Denny:

Absolutely. And that's I think, the magic of islands. Yes, we run land based programs out of the Mahoosack Mountains and up in Greenville and there's wonderful opportunity for paddling and hiking. But there's something about islands and the fact that you need to have a sustainable community. You need to use the resources that you got in place because that's really all you have. And you need to use the human resources and the community to be supportive because if something happens out there, it's just you. And that's a big, a big metaphor for what Outward Bound stands for.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Not only is it a metaphor, but it's also how you began your original. The founder of Outward Bound was a German Jewish man who fled Germany at the time that the Nazis were taking over and really needed to show people how to operate in a resilient self, I don't know, self caring for type of way.

Eric Denny:

Well, his educational philosophy came to be when he saw in between the period of World War I and World War II, the youth in Germany were becoming, as he put it, complacent. They were relying more on technology. Now think about that and think about where our kids are today. And he felt like they were losing those pieces of education which were so critical to become an adult in the community. Things like spirituality and not in the sense of religion necessarily, but just in the sense of wonder. The character and the strength and the resilience was not there. So his educational philosophy is a bit of going down to a warm engine room. They were up in the rigging, dousing the sails, striking the sails. And so they grew up and trained in an environment that was harsh, challenging, and they knew that they could overcome those situations. So the first Outward Bound school was based off the coast of Wales in small boats to give these young British sailors that experience, that life experience that they could then draw on when the odds were against them.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The goal of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour is to help make connections between the health of the individual and the health of the community. The goal of Ted Carter Inspired Landscapes is to deepen our appreciation for the natural world. Here to speak with us today is Ted Carter.

[Unidentified voice]:

I think that one of the things that I have noticed time and time again with spaces and places that I've created over the years, especially my meditation room in particular. That was a space created. I just drew a box out in front of my house one day with a spray can and I told them to get the backhoe and dig a foundation and let's get this meditation room built. And that was in 2005. Since then I've had amazing experiences in that room and those journeys within that room have been been astounding. And whenever I go back in that space that is so powerful and so wonderful, I think spirit definitely welcomes me. I feel it surrounding me. So it's important to realize that we too can create these amazing spaces that welcome us. In a book entitled Plant Spirit Medicine by Elliot Cowan, I'm going to read you one little passage. It says, I think it is quite ethical to to use the abandoned powerplaces of tribal people. In fact, the spirits of such places are often lonely for human attention since they achieve their own greatness by conferring greatness upon their devotees. Remember this and remember the power places in your landscape. I'm Ted Carter and if you'd like to contact me I can be reached@tedcartardesign.com

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast understands the importance of the health of the body, mind and spirit.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Here to talk about the health of

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

the body is Travis Boyer of Premier Sports, a division of Black Bear Medical.

[Unidentified voice]:

What better way to push limits than with the proper preparation, performance and recovery? At Black Bear Medical we have all the sports health products and daily living aids to help you prevent injury, increase your performance and recover from tough workouts and injuries. We have athletic compression apparel such as socks, sleeves and shorts, high end orthopedic therapy products such as massage bars, foam rollers, resistance bands, tubing and kinesiology tape. We also carry a full line of support braces for the knee, foot and ankle. But pushing the limits may not mean on the field, it may mean every day. Living your everyday life can be difficult as you get older and we have all the products for daily living that can help you push your personal limits and do the things that you enjoy. Stop by our retail locations in Portland and bangor or visit blackbearmedical.com and see how no matter your age or your ability, we can help you push your limits.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've seen

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

more and more experiential learning programs out in the United States and around the world, but it seems that there is something that continues to be very core with what you're offering. And also, again, it probably has to do with this ability to let people take risks. Some other programs, they will see that something bad happens when a participant takes a risk. So they pull back and then they don't push them as far. They don't push the participant as far. But what you're finding is that if you're consistent about what you offer educationally and you're consistent about your desire to have people go out on a solo,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

that taking a risk is not as

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

risky as it might seem.

Eric Denny:

You're right. I think one of the biggest misperceptions sometimes of Outward Bound is that we're a guide service, that our instructors are there to shepherd people through their experience in the wilderness, when in fact we're a school. And in schools, the best schools that I've been a part of and the best educators that I know, guide and facilitate and allow mistakes to happen and eventually get their students to a point where they are taking self control over their education. And that's what we do in a wilderness environment. And Outward Bound, our instructional staff, who for 50 years have been setting the bar for the industry, the experiential wilderness industry, intentionally let the students make mistakes in a way that exposes them to risk, but not physical risk, risk of failure, risk of concern that they're not doing well. And then they bring it back, allow that point of reflection, allow for that growth to happen after mistakes are made, and then push them again in the same direction of taking ownership. So our courses are structured where our students. We go through three major phases of any one of our expeditions. We have a training phase where our instructors are with the students all the time, teaching them the skill, both the wilderness skills as well as the group management and self reflection skills. Then we break into sort of a middle phase. We call it the main expedition, which the instructors take a step back. They're still there and they're still coaching and guiding. But they're allowing the students more freedom and flexibility to make their own decisions, their own successes and their own mistakes. The final phase of every Outward Bound course is final expedition, where the instructors have intentionally pulled themselves out of the group. Not necessarily physically, we're there from a physical risk standpoint, but the group is completely self sufficient. They're on their own, both as individuals and also as a team. And it's in that final expedition phase where you see the galvanizing of that group, and it's where you see the highest highs and the lowest lows. Because they're owning it. They're owning it all. And many organizations that take people out into the wilderness don't intentionally let that process happen of letting go and letting that self ownership take place.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

The solo aspect of the expedition is also very important. From what you said, and what I find really appealing is that somehow doing the solo piece is very akin to what was done once with Native American youths and the sort of pushing them out into the wilderness to learn to be self sufficient, but also see how their souls could reconnect with something bigger.

Eric Denny:

Yeah, yeah. It's funny because there are a variety of different stories on how the first solo and Outward Bound came about. Some say it was intentionally put in to mimic the vision quest of the Native American. There's also another side of the story that says that an expedition, a group of folks on an Outward Bound course were supposed to meet up with a resupply of food and fuel. And the resupply truck was a couple of days late. And so the instructors didn't know what to do with their students. So they invented this thing called solo and stuck them out by themselves for a couple of days. Either way, solo is an important part of every Outward Bound program. And from my experience in Outward Bound, it tends to be the most powerful thing too. And it's challenging to be alone with yourself for two days in the wilderness with no cell phone, with no iPad, with no book, and with minimal provisions. We have a saying, it's if you're bored, think about the company that you keep. Because so very rarely, and I can speak to this as an adult now. My solo experience when I was 16 years old, on a hurricane island Outward Bound course off the coast of Maine, four days, three nights, all by myself on a teeny weeny little island has been the only time that I have had the experience of being alone with myself for that period of time. Even when I'm driving in my car and I do a lot of traveling now, I've got the radio on, I've got things going on. I'm not alone with myself. So the solo is one of those unique experiences that we hold very dearly to from an educational value standpoint.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's also something that has been traditionally a rite of passage or an initiation into something, whether it's, say, your Native American group or another group. And these rites of passage and the sense of needing initiation is something I believe is lacking in today's society. It's interesting to see that these very big transitions that happen between young adulthood and older adulthood, somehow they're not marked by anything. And yet they're enormous.

Eric Denny:

They're absolutely enormous. There you still see rites of passage in many religious areas. The bat mitzvah, the bat mitzvah, communions, things like that. So there are some rites of passage. But I do believe that as a society, we've lost a lot of important ones.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and that is true. And I raised my children Catholic and they went through first communion and all of the rites of passage, all of the sacraments. But. But I don't think as many people are engaging in traditional religion as they once did. And I think sometimes there is this sense that there is something spiritual that people feel drawn to, but they don't know what it is and there isn't anything set up to help them experience it.

Eric Denny:

The natural world used to be the place where rites of passage occurred in our society and many societies around the world. As we've withdrawn from the natural world. And it's not just American society. It's happening all over the globe. As we've retreated into cities and suburbs, we've lost that connection with what's happening out there in the natural world. It's important to get back there. It's important to use that as the environment for reflection, which is a lot of what rites of passage are for. Challenge and reflection.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Eric, I think that having had this conversation just really causes me to be even more intrigued about what it is that you're doing and helping people push their limits out on Hurricane island and also at your site in western Maine.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how do people find out more

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

about the Hurricane Island Outward Bound school?

Eric Denny:

They can go to our website. They can go to outwardbound.org or hiobs.org that's H I O B S.org and there you'll have all the information you need on the courses that are offered not just here in Maine, but all across the country, as well as background on who we are, how we do it, things like that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And this is a good time of year for people to be thinking about this because your summer programs are very popular and they fill up fast. And if anybody's making sort of newish New Year resolutions, then they can be possibly thinking about Hurricane Island Outward Bound.

Eric Denny:

Absolutely. And yes, right now we're accepting enrollments for our summer season and enrollment's looking great. So we're going to be jam packed this summer.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've been speaking with Eric Denny, who is the executive director of the Hurricane Island Outward Bound school. I encourage those who have been listening who are interested in. In finding out more about reconnecting with themselves or pushing Limits or even simply spending time on an island off the coast of Maine in a very different way to look at the Outward Bound website. And I appreciate all the work that you're doing to bring this sort of information and experience to the people of Maine and across the country.

Eric Denny:

Well, thanks for having me, Lisa. It's been a pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You've been listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast show number 128, pushing limits. Our guests have included Shelley Koenig and Eric Denney. For more information on our guests and extended interviews, visit drlisabelisle.com for the Maine Magazine article on Shelley Koenig, visit themainmag.com the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is downloadable for free on itunes. For a preview of each week's show, sign up for our E newsletter and like our Dr. Lisa Facebook page. Follow me on Twitter and Pinterest and read my take on health and well being on the Bountiful Blog. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged. They enable us to bring the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Pushing Limits show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.

Shelley Koenig:

Sa.