Replenish #4

Marcelle Pick:

What is it that I do consistently? What's my pattern that I've learned that I need to unlearn and do differently? I think that's where women have a hard time because they want to do it all and do it all well and you can't. Something's going to give and really waking

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

people up to the deeper relationship that they already feel but that they maybe can't articulate or is damped down or a little bit cloaked in our culture and just starting to have that authentic relationship for ourselves.

Melissa Cilley:

There are often opportunities in our life that we are meant for those opportunities and they are meant for us. And I think this is one of those opportunities where the first time I saw it, it was very compelling to me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Hello, welcome to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast for October 9, 2011. The theme for this week's show is Replenish. Today on our Food and Sustenance segment, we are joined as always by Genevieve Morgan, the wellness editor for Maine Magazine. Good. Hello.

Genevieve Morgan:

Hi, Lisa. It's always so much fun to be here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, we enjoy having you. And we're talking today about locally grown foods. We always talk about locally grown foods because this is what the people at Whole Foods Market are so generously providing us with. Barbara Galino, who will be in in a few weeks, she helps me find these locally grown foods. This week we have an entire array of local greens, which is exciting for me.

Genevieve Morgan:

They look really great. They look fresh and like you could just throw them in the salad bowl and eat them right now.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what I like about the locally grown greens is that you can find them a little bit further into the year than you might have otherwise been able to. The people up at Locally Known, which is near Merrymeeting Bay, they have these greens into the fall a little bit longer. They come out in the spring a little bit sooner and so they are expanding our definition of availability. Today's segment we're focusing on replenishing and we will be talking with Marcel Pick, who has written this book called Are youe Tired and Wired? As I talk about on the blog, being tired and wired has this long standing tradition in Chinese medicine and has everything to do with a lack of kidney energy. And the kidney energy is so very foundational. And we get this when we're born from our parents, we have this, we go into life with kidney energy. What happens over time is we just drain ourselves of this energy. We don't replenish ourselves. We keep doing things that are taking away from this energy. And I talk about this on the blog. This bang for your life buck, you know, are you getting out of your life? What you're putting into it is the

Genevieve Morgan:

kidney energy energy that goes out. Is it like a caregiving energy or is it. What is it?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Oftentimes it is, it is a caregiving energy. What we know about in traditional Chinese medicine, when your kidney energy gives out, it's when you start to age, you start getting back pain and knee pain and your hay, your hair gets a little grayer. And it really is something that you can, you can see visibly. And we'll also talk with Charlotte Clues later on in the show and she's going to talk about how you can sort of replenish and refortify. And that's what I love about this food segment. It's all about our ability to do something, eat some foods which are going to replenish us.

Genevieve Morgan:

It sounds almost like a plant that's withering and then you give it some nutrients and it comes back to life. Or give it some water and some nutrients.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's right. And this is a perfect segue into one of the things that Whole Foods Market is doing. And that is the ANDI score, which is the aggregate nutrient density index, which was created by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, who is with the organization Eat Right America. He took foods from across the spectrum, mostly whole grains and produce because it's harder to analyze processed foods. And he organized them by their ability to give you bang for your buck. What are you getting out of what you're putting in your mouth?

Genevieve Morgan:

So when they ask you, would you like fries or coleslaw, spinach or we'll finally know what to say.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, yeah, this is one of many rating systems, so this is one that Whole Foods Market has embraced. Certainly I believe that there are others in the community, but this is a good one, this one. They take the amount of calcium and beta carotene and alpha carotene, niacin, magnesium and just a whole list of things and they find out how much is in each calorie of a particular given food, and it's rated from 0 to 1000. And there aren't any foods that are 0. They say cola is at 0.6. So that's about as close to 0 as you can get.

Genevieve Morgan:

I have to tell my kids that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. Right. Well, I'm sure your kids never drink cola, right?

Genevieve Morgan:

Oh, never. Never.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Of course not. Right. But kale is at a thousand. So isn't that great? We have this baby kale over here, which is not. Well, it's local. It comes from Olivia's Organics, and I believe they're out of Massachusetts. So if you expand your definition of local, then we have these greens and you can eat them. And in fact, what I like about baby kale is I tell people to eat kale all the time, and they say, oh, my gosh, that stuff's so bitter. It's so hard. It's so hard to cook. How do you actually make it? And what I love about this nice, cold, washed baby kale is ready to cook, ready to go.

Genevieve Morgan:

Looks like lettuce.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It does look like lettuce. And it tastes like lettuce, too. What I made yesterday, as I was thinking about this segment, I took some garlic and some onions. Both were locally grown. I put them in a little olive oil. I threw in a red pepper from last week's show, which was still good. And I wilted a couple of cups of the arugula, the spinach, and the baby kale. Put some salt and pepper and a about maybe a quarter cup of cider. And I'll put this recipe on the blog. And I just wilted the greens, so you get a little bit of. You warm them up a little bit, you cook them a little bit so they're not quite as hard to digest. And then I put in some tomatoes and just cook those through, and it was absolutely delicious. I mean, it took away the bitter that sometimes you can get from not only kale, but from arugula. It's so easy. It's such a good way to get the kale into your diet with this thousand points on the Andi index. So this is what we always talk about, how you can get things into your diet that taste good, that are worth eating bang for your buck.

Genevieve Morgan:

Makes a lot of sense.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's interesting, too, because we talk about this Andi index, and it's all these vitamins and nutrients and things like that. And in Chinese medicine, different greens do different things. So, for example, kale in traditional Chinese medicine is warming it's good for the stomach and the lung meridian. Arugula is bitter. It's good for the liver meridian, which I don't think we discussed last week in our breast cancer segment.

Genevieve Morgan:

But I have a question about the warming foods, because you hear about that a lot in Chinese medicine. And the idea is that warming foods, are they replenishing? Explain that. I don't really get it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, in Chinese medicine, it's always sort of a back and forth between problems that are more cold, problems that are more hot, problems that are more damp, problems that are more dry. So when you have a food that's warming, then it's going to be better for a problem that's more cold. So, for example, we were just talking about cold. So if you have cold in the lung, in the sinuses, and you get like a congestion or some sort of

Genevieve Morgan:

a sinus infection, which we're coming into the season where that would be common for a lot of people.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Absolutely. So the kale is a good way to warm up that lung meridian. This is what the Chinese medicine people believe, and also the stomach meridian. And when your stomach is warmed up, then it actually helps you move your. What they call the gu qi, which is the qi that comes from the food that you eat. So that helps move that around the body. The arugula, it's a different sort of green. It's a bitter, and it's good for the liver meridian. And as we just started to talk about the liver meridian, it's interesting in Chinese medicine, runs right down through the breasts. So last week we talked about breast cancer. And one way to keep preventing breast cancer or help people who have breast cancer is to eat things that are bitter, like arugula, like dandelion greens in the spring. It's a very interesting. Ma', am, whether you believe in Chinese medicine or not, you can still eat these foods.

Genevieve Morgan:

And if you know someone who has breast cancer, you can bring them an arugula salad.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

That's right. And the spinach that we have here, also, I think we eat a lot of spinach in our culture. We're very familiar with spinach. But what we might not realize is that this is supposed to be known to moisten and lubricate the intestines.

Genevieve Morgan:

I did not know that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Sometimes we get a little far afield in our discussions. But it's a Chinese medicine thing. It's always good to. Yes.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

If you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes, we have John, the sound person over to the side is making faces at us. So maybe we should get back on topic a little Bit What I. What's interesting is we're going to talk to Charlotte later on in the show, and I know that one of the things she discusses is living foods. And these greens are. They're living foods. It's the type of foods that cows munch on. I mean, they're as close to living as you can get. What sometimes people will talk about is raw foods and eating, having salads. And in our culture, we get vegetables into us by eating salads.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yes. And a lot of people go on raw food diets and put their pets on raw food diets. And it's a big, big craze for a small part of the population.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what we don't really always focus on is the fact that if you're eating raw foods, they're not always that easy to digest. So you might be eating raw foods, but if you. If your body's not assimilating the nutrients involved, then you're not getting the bang for the buck.

Genevieve Morgan:

That's a really interesting point. Can you just quickly talk about bioavailability of nutrients? Because that makes. This makes a lot of sense.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's true. The body can only metabolize certain foods. Well, and when these foods have fairly tough and substantial cell walls, then the body isn't going to be able to get the nutrients out of them quite as well. So this is why, for example, most of us don't eat raw meat, because we aren't going to be able to get out of the raw meat what we would get out of cooked meat. And similarly, the foods that like greens or vegetables, it's better in many cases if you can just give them a little bit of heat, a little bit of cooking time. And even the raw foods enthusiasts will tell you that they have ways of sort of helping break down the cell walls so that you can get more of the out of them, whether it's fermenting or exposure to acidic substances. So this is one of the reasons why, with the greens, I do eat salad in my own life, but I would prefer to have them slightly wilted, not completely cooked down with all the nutrients gone. But the food that I described making yesterday was wilted and it was delicious. Even better.

Genevieve Morgan:

It's great. Sounds good. I wish I'd come over for dinner.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'll make you some sometime.

Genevieve Morgan:

Okay, thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I know one of the reasons that you didn't come over for dinner, though, is that you've been working very hard lately with the telling room.

Marcelle Pick:

I have.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

There's an upcoming event which begins, I believe, the 16th of October. And I know we can find more about this on your website.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yes, it's called Slant, and it's a live storytelling series in collaboration with Space Gallery, Beloved Space Gallery. We started the series a year ago and we have four or five members of the community. And they don't have to be writers. They're just people you, you might have heard of, or a policeman or a nurse. And they will come and tell a story based on a theme. And it's had a huge, huge success rate and people have just loved them. And we're starting it up again this

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

year and it's free. It is free. Open for all ages.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yes. And I want to, you know, if we're talking about replenishing. It is funny.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Oh, good.

Genevieve Morgan:

A lot of the stories, that many of the stories are poignant and moving, but it's really fun. Funny to hear people tell live stories and they're great.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, one of the people on your list is Sonja Tomlinson, who is a hip hop artist and teacher.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I would imagine that she would have a slightly different take on the world. That could be amusing.

Genevieve Morgan:

Absolutely. She has been a teacher at the Telling Room, a volunteer teacher at the Telling Room for many years now, and works with our Young Writers and Leaders group. She did a huge workshop last year that the gifted artist Spose, who's also Maine, comes from Maine and went to usm.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So Spose is the name of the person?

Genevieve Morgan:

Spose is the name of the person.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

All right.

Genevieve Morgan:

I'm not going to out his real name, but that's okay.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay. But that's his. Right?

Genevieve Morgan:

That's his street name.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And she was involved in this.

Genevieve Morgan:

And she was involved. She was involved. And he consulted and they taught these 14, 15 high school students, all from different countries, all immigrant kids, to rap. And they each wrote a rap and they performed it at St. Lawrence center for the Arts to great acclaim.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay. So this is a way to nurture yourself. As we talked about in our very first beginning show, this is a way to nurture yourself is by going to your Telling Room event. And another way that you can replenish or nurture yourself is at our very own John McCain, the sound engineer for our Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast. His opening at the Cambridge Coffee House on 740 Broadway in South Portland occurred recently. And they're having a reception on Wednesday, October 12th. This is a joint exhibition with artist Molly Anathan. It's called the Dreaming of Worlds. So I'm fascinated by this.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Yeah.

Genevieve Morgan:

I had a chance to Stop by the coffee shop a couple days ago, and the paintings are really beautiful.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What I love about Maine is that not only we have these locally grown greens, you know, we've talked about locally grown peppers, we've talked about locally grown people and artists, but we're also, we're continuing to nurture organizations such as the Camp Susan Curtis foundation, the Camp Susan Curtis, and the Susan Curtis Foundation. And we're going to be talking to her later on in this hour as well. I know that there's an affiliation between Susan Curtis and the Telling Room.

Genevieve Morgan:

It's true.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So there's a lot of mutual growing that's taking place, mutual replenishment and nurturing and feeding.

Genevieve Morgan:

It's true. I mean, collaboration and connection is one of the ways. Even when I think there's a thing that happens in yoga class where people go into balancing poses like tree, and the instructor will tell you to close your eyes and everybody tips over because they're standing on one leg and they close their eyes and they tip over. But if the instructor says, put out your hands and you touch the people on either side of your mat, all three of you can stand firm. Because it's the power of connection that helps you stand straight.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Which is why we do this Every week. The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is that we're trying to connect people with something a little bit bigger. Not just eat your kale and your arugula, but also connect with people in the world that are doing things that might prove helpful, that might prove replenishing to you. And then once you get to the place where you are replenished, then you could do things like give back. You can work with a Telling Room, you can work with Camp Susan Curtis. So there's a method to our madness. We know exactly what we're doing here on the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour most of the time. Okay. Right. But everything is connected, and this is what we truly believe about health and wellness. We've said this on prior segments that the type of medicine that I practice, the type of wellness that you write about, and the type of wellness that's espoused by Maine Magazine and a lot of people in Maine, it's about connection, and it's about reconnecting people with themselves, with the people around them and with their world. And whether it's by eating greens or going to a Telling Room event, or supporting an artist like John McCain and Molly Anathan, there are lots of steps you can take to work towards a healthier, more well, self, family, community, and world. So thank you for coming on and talking with me about this again. Genevieve, certainly.

Genevieve Morgan:

Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's certainly great to have several minds in the room that can just be synergistic and keep replenishing one another.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yeah, we're all going to hold each other up.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Today in the studio we have Marcel Pick. Marcel Pick co founded Women to women in 1983 with a vision to change the way in which women's health care is delivered. Marcel earned a B.S. in nursing from the University of New Hampshire School of Nursing, a BA in Psychology from the University of New Hampshire, and her Ms. In Nursing from a Boston College Harvard Medical School. She is certified as an OBGYN Nurse Practitioner and a pediatric nurse practitioner and serves on the advisory board for the Integrated Healthcare Symposium as well as the renowned Hoffman Institute and lectures on a variety of topics including weight loss resistance, infertility, stress and illness, and adrenal dysfunction. She hosts a weekly radio show, Core Balance for Women's Health on hayhouseradio.com Marcel published her first book, the Core balance diet, in 2009 and her second book, Are youe Tired And Wired? Earlier this year. We are so grateful to have you here.

Marcelle Pick:

I'm delighted to be here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I also have next to me Genevieve Morgan, who I know spent some time in the last few years with you doing this exciting project, the Core Balance Diet and much more.

Genevieve Morgan:

I was just saying to Marcel that she was one of the first people who got me interested in topics around alternative medicine and self care and self help. So she's sort of my guiding light in the field of wellness.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and I'm fascinated by this because 1983, that was a long time ago.

Marcelle Pick:

It was a long time ago.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I mean, you've been putting a lot of time and effort into a field that very recently has had a lot of success. But you were doing this before other people were finding this as interesting as they do.

Marcelle Pick:

Yeah. And a lot of the things that we actually did in 1983 have actually proven now to be probably more accurate now than they were back then. So we weren't really well accepted back then. So it was definitely hard for us back then. But we were persistent about following through with what we believed to be true. And also science was supporting us, although there was not a lot of literature to do that, but there is now.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So what did cause you to be so sure of yourselves back in 1983? So sure that even though the science may not have been there, you wanted to follow through, you wanted to push through?

Marcelle Pick:

Well, you know, a lot of it, I think, comes back to my background. I grew up in Australia, and I spent a lot of time in Aboriginal caves. So I was very committed to kind of the notion that there's something a little bit bigger than we are, that we don't always. We can't always rely on the absolute gospel of science to be so sure of things. So I came very early to understand that nature and connection to the earth is very, very important and that the healing modalities are also about connecting with yourself, as well as kind of looking at nature for some of the answers, not always looking from the scientific model. And I didn't understand that until I was older, but that was the foundation of what I grew up. It's what I lived and breathed until I came to America when I was 11.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I completely agree with you. And this is one of the reasons why I started doing traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture and looking at other healing traditions, because for me, it is about what works, what works for the patient. And just like you, we are finding more and more in traditional Chinese medicine and even. Even Ayurvedic medicine, that the studies are backing it up. Which is what you were saying right before we went on, that you went through what is 700 studies, something like this, to create the background research for your book. Are you tired and wired? So tell me what that was like.

Marcelle Pick:

So one of the things that I saw in my practice, we have a culture of women that are burning the candle on both ends, that are exhausted, they're getting sicker more than they have before in their lives. And I got motivated to write the book because there's a lot of books on adrenal issues out there, but they all talk about the quick fix. And what I started to understand is I would see the same people over and over in my office. I'd give them the supplements, I'd encourage them to exercise, I'd change their diet, and they were back in my office again. So I realized that if I didn't write a book to help people understand, if you don't change your lifestyle, if you don't change your script, if you don't change your patterns of behavior, you're never going to be able to get those adrenals well long term. So that's what motivated me to write the book is too many people were staying sick.

Genevieve Morgan:

Will you tell us about the adrenals? Where are they and what do they do?

Marcelle Pick:

The adrenals, I think, are very often not talked about and we never talk about them unless people have huge issues like adrenal cancer, adrenal problems. We never really talk about the fact that adrenals are crucial. If you don't have adrenal function, you can't function. We have stress in our lives every day, but the problem is that they were meant to work so that we had stress with a battle or a war and the war would be over and we'd go back to life. But now we have computers, we have iPads, we have iPhones, we have BlackBerries, we have work, we have kids, we have parents that are aging and women now feel like they have to do it all. So they're working and trying to be mothering and perhaps not mothering, but working extra hours and they can't do it all. And what's happening is that the adrenals, which are so important to deal with stress, but they also produce 50 different hormones, they can't keep up with the pace so they're continuing to have to push out cortisol, which is one of the things that they produce. And then ultimately, if they produce it for so long, they get deplete and then they are exhausted and they can't do their day.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now, did you find this relevant in your own life?

Marcelle Pick:

Oh, are you kidding? Of course. Who hasn't? I mean, I had a one year old and then twins, you know, three weeks later. So I had twins. I had a full time practice. I was on call. I was the person that was making the money in the practice and I was trying to be a mother. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Who hasn't? And it's learning from yourself, but also seeing it in your patients. And I think one of the things I say a lot is I think the feminist movement was wonderful for us, but it also cost us because we had to do it then both. And I'm not sure you can. I'm not sure you can do it equally well. It's just very difficult. Something's got to give. And the thing that I think happens for women is that they don't take care of themselves. And that's ultimately what happens, especially with the adrenal issues.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. And Jen and I both understand exactly what you're saying. Both of us as parents, as mothers, we and working women, we're doing exactly as you've described. And I think growing up in a time when we were told, you know, go to medical school, you know, go to college, get these degrees, but then the other side, somebody not only does somebody have to take care of the children in the household, but somebody wants to. I mean, for me, that was the bottom line is, you know, gave birth to my children and I wanted to be there for them.

Marcelle Pick:

Of course. And then you're also pulled with the work and you want to do that well, too. So it's how do you find the balance and how do you find the dance of that?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Right. So how do you. What is your solution?

Marcelle Pick:

Well, you know, I think the biggest solution is starting to understand that there are things, sometimes if you're a perfectionist, which many women tend to be, or multitasking, there's things you're going to have to prioritize. There are some things you just can't do. Maybe the dishes don't get done, maybe you can't do that extra thing. Maybe you have to say no to something at work. But it's learning to set those boundaries for yourself. But sometimes it takes you understanding, what is it that I do consistently? What's my pattern that I've learned that I need to unlearn and do differently? I think that's where women have a hard time because they want to do it all and do it all well, and you can't. Something's going to give. And, you know, as women, our adrenals tend to give. And ultimately what happens is when you have adrenals that are working too hard for too long, what people don't understand is when you have adrenals that are not working, it actually dysregulates the hormones. It causes tremendous problem with blood sugar, dysregulation, GI issues. It affects the immune system down regulates thyroid function. So we've got this whole system, including the GI system, that then is not working the way that it should. And people wonder why they're sick more often. And a lot of it we talk about will decrease your stress. It's much more complicated than that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Right. Well, the stress always exists, Jen. You have a son in high school and a son in middle school. Is that.

Genevieve Morgan:

Yes, I do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. And I have a son who just graduated and then I have a daughter in high school and a 10 year old. And this has been ongoing. You think, well, when the kids get a little bigger, it's going to get a little easier. And it does in some ways, but not in others. I mean, the stress is always there. You can't get rid of your kids, you can't necessarily get rid of your job. And we don't want to. Most of us want to be able to do lots of things, to have a very rich and fulfilling life.

Marcelle Pick:

Of course, of course. But you know, there's things we can do in the daytime. For example, not rushing for breakfast, making sure that you have five to 10 minutes to sit down, breathe and eat your food, to chew your food two times a day for two minutes, breathe. So there's small things you can do that have huge impact. You know, there's concepts of taking time for yourself and it doesn't have to be hours, but it's just moments in which you really sit and smell the roses. And if you have five minutes, great. If you have 15 minutes, that's even better. But the more you fill yourself up, the more you're going to have for your children. And that's the notion, you know, we talk about on airplanes, putting the oxygen mask on yourself first. And that's really true. The more you have energy, the more you can give to others, including patients. But if you don't fill this vessel up, you don't have enough leftover. And I think that happens a lot to women. So women tend to kind of try to do it all. It does happen to men for sure. Now, the symptoms, I classify them in three ways. I think there's more, but I wanted to make it easy in the book. So I talk about the person who's the racehorse, who's the person who's race running all the time. Burning the candle on both ends, can't stop, has lots of bounding energy until sometimes they hit the wall. And when they hit the wall, they might be the person who then becomes the workhorse. Exhausted in the morning, can't get to sleep at night, or falls asleep and then can't get back to sleep. And then we have the person that I call the flatliner who is just exhausted all the time. And they're usually the ones whose cortisol levels are really low. They don't fit the criteria that we call traditional medicine, Addison syndrome, which is definitely a disease, or Cushing's syndrome, which is too much cortisol. But there's so much room in between in which people are on either extreme, in which they really feel horrible because of all the things when the adrenals don't work that it causes problems with. So it's really important that all of us pay attention and to say, you know, what am I doing in my life? That sense makes may be contributing to my poor adrenals having to work too hard for too long. And the really interesting thing is 30% of estrogen and progesterone is produced by adrenals prior to menopause. 50% is produced after menopause. So what you see in women perimenopausally is the more stress they have, the more symptoms they have as they journey into menopause. And the thing that they can work on then is working to shift that stress level. But again, it's not that simple. It's looking at what am I doing consistently that's making me feel like I'm just always on the run. I never have time, I'm always exhausted, I'm not sleeping well. What do I need to change in addition to nutrients in my diet?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And one of the things that I've loved to see is the rise in yoga, tai chi, qigong, all these very restorative, what we call yin practices. There's yin and yang. And yeah, yin is the very sort of quiet energy, the nurturing energy. And is this something that you suggest people take advantage of? Absolutely.

Marcelle Pick:

But the thing that's so important is people have to find what works for them. And sometimes when I say it in my practice and say, well, what about this? It's just too much for people to take on because they're so busy. It's an add on. It's an add on. So I talk a lot about bursting exercise, but again, if somebody's the flatliner and they're so tired, that's not going to work. I don't want their pulse rate over 90 until they're heel first. But for others, that might be the racehorse. They got a little energy, they feel better after they exercise. I would give them small amounts of exercise to do so that they actually do it. And sometimes when I say yoga, it's like oh, my God. It's too overwhelming. I don't have time for an hour. It's like, okay, how about 10 minutes? Can we just start with that and find something you love, that makes you happy, that you want to do often?

Genevieve Morgan:

Lisa, you must see something like adrenal fatigue in your, your traditional Chinese medical practice. But when I go to a regular doctor and talk about adrenal fatigue, a term I learned through my studies with Marcel, they look at me askance and they say, well, that doesn't exist. So I'm wondering. There seems to be some controversy about adrenal fatigue.

Marcelle Pick:

You know, I think that whenever we start something new, it takes about 30 years for medicine to catch up. And at this point, I agree with the notion that adrenal fatigue is probably not a great definition. It's really more that the adrenals are hyper or hypothey producing too little or too much cortisol. And I think we really need to name it that and call it what it is. The reality is, scientifically, we know from the studies that when you have too much cortisol, it has consequences, and when you don't have enough cortisol, it has consequences. And the example I give is if somebody is diabetic and when they come in your office and they're diabetic, if you look back at their blood sugars, they didn't become diabetic overnight. There was a trending that you could see. And what I'm looking for with adrenals and the cortisol is what's the trending? And if I'm seeing high production all the time, what I know is that's going to have a consequence. So let's not call it adrenal fatigue. Let's call it something else. You know, hyper or hypocortisol production, or we'll figure out a fancy word for it that's probably more appropriate. I think if we call it that, then maybe we won't get as much pushback from the medical community. I think the pushback is coming from the notion, it's kind of a new age notion of adrenal fatigue. Fatigue doesn't really describe what's happening. But there's something even more important here, and that is that we don't tend to, in our practices generally in medicine, talk about emotions very much. And emotions was part of what drove me to write this book, is that if we don't understand some of the ways we behave, the patterns that we have, which are founded in emotions, were not going to change. They did A very large study that was not given much publicity. In 1998, it was 50,000 men and women that were evaluated with Kaiser Permanente in the cdc, looking to see if they had adverse childhood events in their childhood. Did it impact health later on in life? Things like heart disease, diabetes, breast cancer, Those are pretty big problems in our culture. And the answer was a resounding absolute. The more the adverse events, including just verbal abuse or neglect or criticism, judgment, perfectionism that affected health outcomes later. So we know scientifically that there's a direct relationship, but we don't talk about that very often in medicine. And that's another piece to the puzzle, certainly with the adrenals, is if someone's pushing themselves so hard, who are they trying to prove themselves to? And how can they change that model and start looking, loving themselves enough that they're going to change what they do and how they do it? Just in baby steps. Doesn't have to be big things, just baby steps.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I feel like this notion has been around long enough that maybe we should be a little closer to this. Does it sometimes frustrate you that this has been out there so long and you've been talking about it for such a long time and yet these issues are still there?

Marcelle Pick:

Yeah, of course. And I sometimes am always surprised, though, in my own practice when I see a very complicated person that been to 15, 20 people, because I see it often. They come to see me from all over the country and I look at the record and then I sit down with them and I look at the tremendous pain they had as children. Huge amounts of pain, Horrible, horrible things. And then we talk about what are some avenues that we can help you heal with yoga, with body work, and of course physically to support the adrenals, because that's usually the organ system that gets depleted the fastest. Those people then start to heal. And I don't know the answer to why. In medicine, we're not talking about it. It's crucial that the ACE study should have been on the front page of the New York Times. I actually called the New York Times and said, why is this not front page material? Any drug that had this kind of impact would have made headlines. You know, does it have to do with money? Does it have to do with politics? I don't know the answer to that. I'm suspicious, but I don't know. It's not definitely something we know is true, and many people don't know this study exists.

Genevieve Morgan:

Marcel, how do people find practitioners in their community? How did they find a clinic like Women to women. Are there people out there doing the work you do?

Marcelle Pick:

Well, the good news is, yes, there are a lot of people that do it. But I'm also cautious because I think some people really need to have the bigger perspective. I practice functional medicine, which means that I'm trained to look at if somebody's having a problem, what's upstream, what's going on to cause that problem, instead of figuring out what the diagnosis is. I'm not always so concerned about a diagnosis. I'm concerned about a symptom set. And I have a practice in Yarmouth, Women to Women. And we've been around since 1985, so a long time. So that's one of the options they have. I have a website, womentowomen.com I have lots of information there. And also there's ways to find practitioners that practice this. Chinese medicine is really important. There are acupuncturists that are around that are great. There are MDs DOS that are practicing this kind of medicine, too. So it's finding somebody that knows how to look at the big picture, not just a diagnosis.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And speaking of the bigger picture, you had a rather interesting experience a few weeks ago, I understand, with another famous doctor. And you'll be able to give us a little information on that.

Marcelle Pick:

Yes, I did a taping last week week for Dr. Oz, and that'll be aired probably in the next week or two. And you can go to Women to Women and look to see when that's going to be aired. It's a live audience, but not live that day. So it'll be taped in the next couple of weeks or shown in a couple of weeks.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And also it'll be available on your Facebook page.

Marcelle Pick:

It will be available on my Facebook page. And there's also an interview with several questions about adrenals on there, as well as a chapter of the book will be on there as well as on the website.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Dr. Oz, I'm feeling very grateful for having had the chance to speak with you today. Marcel. Your name comes up often. We. I like Genevieve. I feel like you've done a lot of work that has built a foundation for many of us who are now practicing to continue to work with. So I thank you for coming in, taking the time to come in, definitely taking the time to write these books and go out there and speak your. Speak your part. And I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Marcelle Pick:

Thank you very much.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Each week we feature a segment we call Maine Magazine Minutes, sponsored by Maine Magazine. And this week we have a very interesting guest who I will let Genevieve Morgan, the wellness editor for Maine Magazine, introduce to you. Thank you, Genevieve.

Genevieve Morgan:

Thanks, Lisa. I'm very excited today because we're joined by Charlotte Clews, who is a popular certified Anyasara yoga teacher living and practicing in Blue Hill. She is the creator of Wild Open Heart Yoga, a physical and spiritual practice that combines yoga, ancient Ayurvedic practices, barefoot running, and wilderness immersion. Hi, Charlotte.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Hi, there.

Genevieve Morgan:

Thanks for driving down from Blue Hill.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Oh, it was nice.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, I'm so. I'm so impressed by everything that you do. Wild Open Heart Yoga. Even the name is exciting, so. Well, first, I want to say congratulations on becoming an certified onus. Sorry, yoga instructor. That takes a lot of work. I remember doing a yoga class with you maybe eight years ago, a workshop. You were pregnant with your first child here in Portland in a studio that doesn't exist anymore. And as I was saying to you, you must have done yoga every day,

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

since I do practice every day. One way or another, I practice, and it is the backbone of my life. It's fantastic. And the certification process in Anusara is a really fantastic process, too.

Genevieve Morgan:

So how did you come to combine all your other interests with your yoga practice?

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Well, I grew up in Down East Maine, so I always grew up in a wild landscape. And I love wilderness, and I love being outside, and I love the natural rhythm. And I've just had this attunement to that even from a very young age. So being out on the beaches, being barefoot, you know, I take my shoes off in March and try to keep them off until November. And I just. That really resonated with me. And when I have stepped away from that and lived in big cities and I have traveled all over, I lose something, and I feel busy and distracted and even a little bit disconnected and sad. And so for me, bringing yoga and bringing wilderness to people is a really fantastic way to awaken and enliven their connection to self. And to really, that life force that bubbles up in all of us is really this sense of joy and a sense of freedom that we all long to connect with. And that is what yoga does. And that is really actually what being in wilderness does for most of us. And so that's where I'm coming from.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And this is really interesting to me, Charlotte, because you have this wilderness background, you have this main background, and yet you chose to incorporate something that is actually quite different. I. E. Ayurvedic medicine. Tell me a little bit about Ayurvedic medicine.

Marcelle Pick:

Yeah.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

So Ayurveda is actually the way that I learn it and practice it is really much about attuning to the natural world. And that attunement takes a great deal of sensitivity that we build up over time through attuning to the life force that's in everything. So both in the plants and trees that we're wandering through just as visitors, but also in the plants that we're eating. So it's about regaining our relationship to the world. You know, eating is essentially the medium in which we relate to our ecosystem. And so Ayurveda is right in line with that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I find the same thing is true in Chinese medicine. It's interesting. Those are very related practices. They are related to the. The silk trade route, the Chinese traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, or. There are so many parallels. And they believe the same is true, that food has an essence. And so this idea of living foods is really important.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Yeah. And really waking people up to the deeper relationship that they already feel, but that they maybe can't articulate or is damped down or a little bit cloaked in our culture and is starting to have that authentic relationship for ourselves.

Genevieve Morgan:

Our theme of today's show is replenished. How do the diet techniques and the advice that you give. How does Ayurveda diet relate to refilling your gas tank or getting ready for the change of season? And particularly as we're heading into the darker months and winter, I think of

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

it as a little bit like surfing. So for most of my. Into my early 20s, actually probably late 20s, I was swimming against the current pretty strong. I liked the sensation. I like to work hard. I liked difficulty. So I would swim super hard and then I'd be really burnt out. And I got a lot of. You know, I was pretty sick in my 20s. Um, and what I learned through Anusara and through Ayurveda is if you turn yourself around and you surf with the waves, it's fun. And you. It's great. And it's. You're not working so hard and the life force is fueling you. So in that way, what I'm teaching people to do is align. Align with life, with the current of life, and it's much easier. You're going to feel better and you're not going to get burnt out.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I want to point out to people that you can't see Charlotte, but, you know, there's a sense of joy that just permeates the entire room by her being here. And that is something I'm struck by as people who Practice this type of life living is they have that sense of. Of joy. Is that. Do you find that in your own life?

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, for me, the freedom that I have found in really just giving myself permission to align with what I already know to be true, it's just, like I said, so much easier. And I do. I wake up happy most days.

Genevieve Morgan:

I'm. I'm hoping that's true because I'm about to embark on a journey with you. I'm a little frightened because I've never done something like it before, but. You are about to launch your annual Ayurvedic fall cleanse on October 16th. Is that right?

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

26.

Genevieve Morgan:

October 26th. Do you want to. Do you want to give me a sneak preview?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

So, yeah, October 26th and November 16th, three weeks we're going to take to hone in on this relationship with food. Now, one of the things that damps down our sensitivity is this. We've eaten a lot of what I call dead or dumb food food in the past. And that or we've eaten out of sync with the seasons. And so we're just not. Our sensitivity is not so refined. And so it's hard for us to make intuitively intelligent decisions freely. And what I like to do with the cleanse, and I recommend it for anybody, is that you're then really just clearing the way for you to feel what is intelligent, to nourish your body. I don't believe that there's any one dietary system or one magic food that's going to heal us and lead to enlightenment. But I do think that we can uncover our own intelligence. And so a cleanse. And this three week cleanse is going to be. We have three weeks of menu plan. So every day is planned out. You get shopping lists. We incorporate some spices and herbs that are traditionally used in Ayurveda cleanses. So they work particularly well when you're lightening up your food. You know, this time of year, any shift in seasons, you're going to have a weaker digestive system. So we're really trying to nurture that and kind of baby the digestive system. And to make this shift, it's a great. I mean, fall and spring are the times to do cleansing so that we're staying in line with the seasons. We're not swimming upstream. And so that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna line up.

Genevieve Morgan:

So, Charlotte, what are the benefits of doing a cleanse like the Fall cleanse?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

So aside from really clearing your channel so you Have a greater sensitivity to what kind of foods are going to nourish you. So it makes you more resilient to being sick. So for the next coming months, when we go into the holidays, it's going to help you out big time. And I find that successive cleanses aid that process quite a bit. It helps you attain a more ideal weight. So you start to again, maybe not during the cleanse, you're not trying to lose a ton of weight, but that over time, it allows you to become more sensitive to what will nourish you and what's appropriate. And it refines your taste. So you start to have natural, natural cravings for what's naturally good for you.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, how do people find out how to reach you and if they want to take a barefoot run or a anusara yoga class? I know you have a lot of workshops and a lot of interesting things happening.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Yeah. So I teach anusara. I teach the barefoot workshops. I do wilderness yoga adventures and then the cleansing. So I'm@wildopenheart.com and you can email register for my email list there. And then I send out a newsletter about once a month, maybe once a week if things are really hopping.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Yeah.

Genevieve Morgan:

And maybe there are a few of you out there who want to join me on the Fall Cleanse. Do the Fall Cleanse Challenge.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

It's a fun group. We have a really good time. Honestly, it's probably the most fun you can have doing a cleanse. And I won't say that it's not hard. So fun and hard are not opposed to each other. But there's some tough days and then you really do. Everyone feels fantastic. It's really fun to see people's eyes afterward. Everyone's eyes just sparkle. It's great.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, I can't wait. Thanks so much for coming down to the studio.

Charlotte Clews Lawther:

Yeah, you're welcome. Nice to talk with you.

Genevieve Morgan:

To sign up for this year's Fall Cleanse with Charlotte Clews, we visit wyldopenheart.com to read more about Anyasara yoga and its connection to Ayurvedic tradition. Read my article Om State in the June issue of Maine Magazine, available online@mainemag.com this month's edition of Maine Magazine is available at your local newsstand across the state.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Each week on the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast, we feature a segment we call Give Back and we begin with reading Our Daily Tread Our Daily Tread was written in honor of our late friend Hanley Denning, and all proceeds benefit her organization, Safe Passage. Safe passage provides approximately 550 children with education, social services and the chance to move beyond the poverty their families have faced for generations at the Guatemala City dump. Visit them online@safepassage.org Today's quote comes from Rene Dumal. You cannot stay on the summit forever. You have to come down again. So why bother in the first place? Just this what is above knows what is below, but what is below does not know what is above. In climbing, take careful note of the difficulties along the way, for as you go up you can observe them coming down. You will no longer see them, but you will know they are there if you have observed them well. There is an art in finding one's direction in the lower regions by the memory of what one saw higher up. When one can no longer see, one can at least know

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

today's Give Back segment by Melissa Cilley, Director of the Susan L. Curtis foundation and Camp Susan Curtis. Susan L. Curtis foundation and Camp Susan Curtis has been providing life changing summer programming for some of Maine's neediest boys and girls since 1974. At Camp Susan Curtis, campers participate in a strengths based experiential curriculum tied to the main learning results and designed to minimize summer learning loss, teach and enhance critical life skills and develop key assets aimed at leveling the playing field for this vulnerable population. There's no doubt that Camp Susan Curtis campers build wonderful memories. They also build the framework that allows them to reverse the generational cycle of poverty and take ownership of their lives, their communities and their futures. Camp Susan Curtis must raise approximately 80% of its budget, including camper tuitions, through fundraising. This year they will hold their first annual Fall Foliage Fun Ride on Sunday, October 16, beginning at 8:00 in the North Port Business Complex at the corner of Allen Avenue and Washington Avenue in Portland. Riders can choose between a 50 mile ride and a 15 mile ride to register or for More information, log on to their website@www.susancurtisfoundation.org. thank you for coming in today, Melissa. It's so great to have the chance to to talk to you about this organization.

Melissa Cilley:

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I have Jen Morgan sitting next to me, the wellness editor for Maine Magazine.

Genevieve Morgan:

Hi, Melissa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Hello. It's interesting to me that earlier on in the show we were talking to Marcel Pick, who's just written a book called Are youe Tired and Wired? And she was talking about this phenomenon that occurs, adverse childhood events that really impact people for the rest of their lives. And now you're here and you're talking about exactly that and something that's happening right now as we speak. We are really doing things for children who have this impact on their lives.

Melissa Cilley:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Tell me about some of the things that you've experienced.

Melissa Cilley:

Absolutely. Well, I just joined the organization in April and coming into an organization like Camp Susan Curtis and meeting the children that we work with is a tremendously humbling and eye opening experience. A lot of the children that come to Camp Susan Curtis have difficult lives. They have really difficult lives. And to meet a child and have a conversation with that child and slowly come to the realization that that child is living a completely different life than any life you've ever known and slowly come to the realization, realization of the strength and the resilience that that child has is a pretty amazing realization. So when they come into the camp and they are already children who are ready for that experience, they're primed, they're excited, they want to be there and it is a thrilling place to be. That is another piece that is so incredibly humbling because these children know what they have. They know that this is an opportunity that they are getting tuition free. They would not have this opportunity but for the generosity of our donors. And they realize that. They appreciate that. They are so grateful and so thankful and it's really quite touching. But then beyond that, as you see them develop through the curriculum, as you see them grow, as you see really beautiful things take place, like a child that has never learned to dream, or perhaps learned at one point, but then forgot through life's challenges of just trying to get through that day and watching their family members just trying to get through that day, that process that many children take for granted of dreaming what do I want to be when I grow up? And is sort of submerged for some of these children and they begin to examine that and it's very exciting.

Genevieve Morgan:

Melissa, how long is the camp? Is it an all day Summer camp. An all day summer camp.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

All summer camp.

Genevieve Morgan:

And where is it?

Melissa Cilley:

It's in Stoneham Main, which is outside Lovell. If you're familiar with the Lovell area, that's where Keizer Lake is located and it's not far from Lovell and it's a lovely little community and, and we're very, very fortunate to be on a huge parcel of an easement conservation that is protected by the state department of Conservation and which means we have an absolutely pristine environment for our campers. It's state of the art facility, absolutely lovely setting where we are the only development on the lake. So no power boats? No, you know, it's, it's truly magnificent and it is depending on the program that the child is enrolled in, they might be there anywhere from two weeks to the entire summer.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Melissa, how can people get involved in camp? Susan Curtis what are ways that they can support your organization and support the children?

Melissa Cilley:

That is a great question. There are quite a few ways. Obviously one of the most critical factors since all of our children attend tuition free, is we really, really need financial support. Support. I, I hate to be crass about it, but that is, that's what we desperately need. We are serving greater numbers of children than we've served in the past and our expenses and our costs are skyrocketing. Food costs to feed the children are going up. So that's, that's probably the most important thing. Beyond that, we have opportunities for volunteering there. We have a camp cleanup every summer which we really, really need help from the community. And a lot of the corporations will send folks. We have some wonderful consistent groups that will come out again and again. It's a wonderful opportunity for them to see the camp. We have Friends and Trustees Day where people come out and actually are at camp when the children are there, when the campers are there, which is a wonderful opportunity for them to get to see camp in action. Beyond that, we have several fundraisers. For example, coming up on the 16th of October, which is a week from Sunday, beginning at 8 o' clock in the morning, is our first annual fall foliage fun ride. And that will include a 15 mile ride as well as a 50 mile ride. So whether you're a real big bicycling enthusiast or just someone who likes to ride a bit more casually, we're hoping that, that folks will want to get involved there. And that's a really easy process. Registering can be. You can register over the Internet by going to our website, which is www.susancurtisfoundation.org or you can register through a registration form that we have available at our office. There are also registration forms at most of the bike shops across Portland and the greater Portland area.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Melissa, was there something specific about this organization that drew you, as an individual in to become the executive director?

Melissa Cilley:

Absolutely, there most definitely was. This is one for me, anyway. I believe that there are often opportunities in our life that we are meant for those opportunities and they are meant for us. And I think this is one of those opportunities where the first time I saw it, it was very compelling to me. This was just. It's very compelling to me that in 40 years, which is how long it's been since the foundation created the mission and created the organization, 40 years, the mission has not changed. It is. I find this to be remarkable and tragic, frankly, that in 40 years, the mission for Camp Susan Curtis is equally compelling and that we still have 40

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

years ago, that we still have children with these needs that are still being impacted by poverty and educational problems, that

Melissa Cilley:

generational poverty, there appears to be a very small impact despite all of the efforts, despite, you know, so much work that's gone into stemming generational poverty, that there still is such tremendous need in that area, and that generational poverty is a really difficult thing to break.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I really appreciate your coming in and talking to us today, Melissa. I know there's this. We could talk for a really long time on this subject. Certainly could, because it's an enormous subject and it's an enormous issue in our society and our culture. But what's wonderful is when you see people actually working on the problem. And I know that that's what you're doing with the Susan Curtis foundation and Camp Susan Curtis. And I wish you all the best in the fall foliage ride. Thank you very much. People who are interested can go to your website, which is the www.susancurtisfoundation.org website. I encourage people to do that.

Melissa Cilley:

Thank you. Thanks very much. All right, thanks for having me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. Thanks for coming in. On today's Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast, we discuss the theme of replenish. It's important to remember to replenish what we may have lost in our lives or to maintain what we've already had. As Marcel discussed, we need to find exactly what it is that works for us and do it often. As Charlotte discussed, going back to nature is one way of doing just that. And Melissa suggested that giving back to others is one way which we may also be replenished. Replenishment was the theme of today's bountiful Blog Are you getting enough bang for your life Buck? Many of us don't realize that we are giving more than we are getting until we no longer have anything left to give. In traditional Chinese medicine, the kidneys are considered to be the basis of our most fundamental essence. We are believed to inherit our essence, which is called jing, from our parents. The jing becomes the source of energy, or qi, for our early lives. The better able we are to preserve our jing, the more gracefully we eat, the better we are able to maintain and build our chi. By eating good foods and engaging in restorative life practices, the healthier we will be. When our lives become so busy that we are spending rather than building and maintaining qi, we become depleted. We become tired and wired. We are so exhausted and so fueled by survival adrenaline that we cannot even get the restorative sleep we so desperately need. This is when we need to decide are we getting enough bang the for for our buck? In other words, is what we are giving worth what we are getting back? If not, we need to stop giving quite so much, at least until we are repleted. And we also need to replenish this week's Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is about that very thing. It is about nourishing ourselves. It is about rebuilding our qi. It is about finding the sources of energy that will enable us not only to survive but thrive. It is about getting, whenever possible, bang for our life buck. Read more bountiful blog posts on bountifulpath.com we hope you have found some sources of Replenishment from our Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast this week. May you have a bountiful life.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It.