Saint Joseph’s: a Small College Renaissance #204

Jim Dlugos:

One of the goals of the strategic plan is to have St. Joseph's College become a learning destination. A place that will welcome invite folks from all over of all ages to come to campus to spend two hours or two years or four years or however long they'd like, engaged in one of the core values of liberal arts education, which is lifelong learning. What do you want to learn today?

Michial Russell:

What's the impact on the environment? And we need to ask ourselves questions like that because in our lifetime, in our children's lifetime, maybe even our grandchildren's lifetime, that's not going to directly become a problem or impact us. But what happens down the road? What happens to the generations to follow us? And I think we have a moral obligation to use our resources more wisely, to stretch them out, make them more available to others, but also not to negatively impact long term health. Not only ourselves, but also the planet.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine Radio Show Number 204, St. Joseph's A Small College Renaissance airing for the first time on Sunday, August 9, 2015. St. Joseph's College, located on the shores of Sebago Lake in Standish, is a small Catholic liberal arts school that is experiencing a renaissance. Founded by the Sisters of Mercy in Portland in 1912, St. Joe's has long been known for educating students in fields such as nursing, education and business. Lately they have added a permaculture farm and are planning a hospitality center and multi age educational living experience. Today we speak with College President Jim Dlugos and Farm Manager Michael Russell about the future of this forward thinking institution. Thank you for joining us. It has been my great pleasure to visit St. Joseph's College in Standish several times over the last year or so as we're writing an article for Maine Magazine and it's also a privilege Today to have before me Jim Dlugos, who is the president of St. Joseph's College in Standish, Maine, to have a little conversation about the work that they've been doing over there. Jim lives in Windham with his wife and two children. It's great to see you again.

Jim Dlugos:

Thanks, Lisa. It's good to see you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm really impressed with St. Joseph's I first visited St. Joseph's when I was, I think, in high school and part of our Catholic Youth Leadership organization. I was over there for a week, and then I went back there for the Advanced Catholic Youth Leadership. And I can't claim to be a practicing Catholic currently, but certainly I was impressed with the campus. You're on a lake. You have beautiful facilities. In fact, you've built a beautiful new athletic facility. You have a farm there now, a big stone barn. And you're graduating people who are really reinforcing the workforce in Maine in great ways. Nurses and teachers and business people. And yet you've got new and interesting ideas for what a small college or university should be. So how did this come to be? Why are you here in our great state, and why all the wonderful ideas that you've been trying to implement?

Jim Dlugos:

Sure. Well, I arrived at St. Joseph's three years ago now in the summer of 2012, and I had spent the previous almost 25 years working in higher education. And along the way, I came to really appreciate the importance of small colleges, the smaller college model, in the higher ed ecosystem. And for decades now, people have been saying that small colleges don't make sense economically. They're not the most efficient way to provide education to students. But having spent all that time working in this is my third small college, I really came to understand the incredible value that we provide to students. And so it's very important for me that we make sure that small colleges be here next 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, you know, hundred years. I say on a regular basis. The work I do is not so much focused on now, but on what will happen when I'm long gone. You know, making sure that this kind of college, and in particular St. Joseph's College, is still there and thriving. The basic understanding that I bring to this is that the traditional business model for higher education, which has been sort of a one size fits all model, makes no sense when you consider the variety of types and sizes and kinds of colleges. And it has probably never really worked for smaller colleges. It's predicated on a significant amount of student revenue, on philanthropic activity, but it's also predicated largely on a significant amount of revenue coming each year from investments from the endowment. And small colleges do not have large endowments. The median endowment for colleges in this country is about $22 million. So fully half of the colleges have endowments of 22 million or less, which is a very different way of thinking about it. From what we hear in the public conversation about colleges and endowments, we hear about Harvard and those sorts of things. Well, most of us are nowhere near the the Harvard one. So we don't have a significant enough endowment that's going to generate the kind of revenue that we would need to have that traditional business model actually work. Okay, so we could do several things. We could spend all our time trying to grow our endowment to $400 billion and that's not happening. Or we could say, what else can we do? How else can we make this work? St. Joseph's is particularly well positioned because of the amazing campus. We have to try some new. And so what the strategic plan that the board of trustees approved this past fall is predicated on is the development of what we're calling mission aligned businesses. Things that we can do on campus that will generate revenue, that will support our core activity, but that will also be aligned, as the name suggests, with the college's values and our core commitments. And so what we've developed are a series of businesses that at least in prospect, will generate revenue, but will also provide students with the chance to get hands on learning, experiential learning, and also opportunities for students to actually earn real money, which is part of the challenge also these days for many students. It's hard for students today, many students today to really get the most out of their college experience because they have to spend so much time working. And in many cases that's in very low paying jobs that require them to get up very early in the morning and go and do something which is not really going to be relevant to their lives in the long term. So if we can develop businesses on campus that will give students a chance to work in their field or potential field, or explore what their potential field might be and also provide revenue for the college, that's a great idea. We think it's a tremendous model. So we have several going. One is already functioning and it's the farm, which we'll be talking about a little later. The farm sort of grew almost accidentally. Back in about 2000, the college acquired some property across Whitesbridge Road from the main campus with the idea at that point that it would become a series of athletic fields while Various things happened as often the case. And that plan we moved on from. The property has a tremendous hundred plus year old stone barn that you mentioned. It was part of the Verril vacation estate that the Sisters of Mercy bought in the 1950s when they moved the college from Portland to Standish. The stone barn is one of a kind. There's not another one like it in certainly all of Maine. There may not be another one like it in all of New England because it's not a traditional New England barn. It's got a Norman influence which has to do with Mr. Verrill's interest in architecture. So the property was sitting idle and some folks on camp said well we like to garden. Can we go over there and plant some tomatoes? And at that point the answer was sure, if you want to, don't hurt yourselves and don't get too settled because we don't know what's going to happen next with that property. And that just grew, it grew organically, pun intended, I guess out of this interest that people had on campus to spend some time on the land. Eventually our then food service provider Bon Appetit got involved. They were very committed to local produce and to sustainable practices. And they said well, could we do in a more organized way something over at the farm? And the college said sure, but don't get too subtle, we don't know what's going to happen next. And when I arrived in 2012 the farm was really sort of functioning on a year to year basis. We actually have a, we had hired a full time farmer, Michael Russell, and he was functioning in that role. But there was no sort of long term plan for the farm, nor long term commitment. And I said well this is crazy, this is a wonderful thing. This makes absolute sense. So we committed instantly to a long term relationship with the farm. At this point the farm is actually licensed to sell everything they produce, vegetables and meat products, anything else, soaps and various things. We have sheep and goats, we have alpacas, we have lots of chickens. And we're in the process of expanding our field under cultivation from 1 acre to, to 5 acres. We produce again a variety of food types. A lot of it goes over to our cafe where it's served to our students on a wonderful farm to fork model. A good deal of it goes down the road to Catherine's Cupboard, a food pantry and Standish that the college supports. And I've been saying to folks at some point we're going to now, in the near future I hope, have enough food that we'll have to be forced to sell it. We'll no longer be able to give it away, which is part of that business model. Michael is a great resource. He provides lots of educational experiences for students. Not just our students, but school children in the area. During the spring and the fall, you'll always see three or four big yellow school buses over there. Students come and they learn where food comes from. It doesn't come from the grocery store, not wrapped in plastic. It comes from someplace else. Our own students have a wonderful relationship with the farm. All students at St. Joseph's are required to take an environmental science course. As part of that, they do some time on the farm getting their hands dirty. Our nursing students get wonderful experience with basic life functions like births and all those sorts of things. They practice giving shots to the animals. And we have a pre veterinary program and the students in that program also get a lot of experience. And so we have this core activity already happening. And the question is, well, why don't we sort of take this and make it into more of a traditional business and have students really be part of the operation of that business and sort of learn what it means to run a small business. Small farming is an area for growth in Maine. And so we are, we are excited about the prospect of soon being able to offer non degree, non credit programs to folks in Maine who want to learn more about how to run an efficient, sustainable small farm. So that's the kind of model we're talking about. Students can be involved in all sorts of things, from the business aspects to the marketing aspects to the actual production. The farm will also provide us opportunities to talk about food insecurity, food distribution systems for small farmers, which is one of the great challenges that smaller farmers have. How do they get their product to market? So as you can see, it's got a whole range of opportunities, aspects make it really a vibrant part of the conversation going forward. That's just one of the models.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's my understanding that St. Joseph's was originally on the campus, the Portland campus here of Catherine McCauley, and that this is a Sisters of mercy School. Catherine McCauley, of course, is the sister of the Sisters of Mercy. And one of the big tenets of Catherine McCauley was hospitality and is hospitality. So the thing that I find interesting is that you're not just doing a farm, you're also talking about hospitality from. You have a big stone barn that's going to become an events facility and you're talking about putting some condos and I think a hotel eventually down on the waterfront. So you're actually going to be welcoming people onto the campus who aren't just students.

Jim Dlugos:

That's right. One of the goals of the strategic plan is to have St. Joseph's College become a learning destination, a place that will welcome, invite folks from all over, of all ages to, to come to campus, to spend two hours or two years or four years or however long they'd like, engaged in one of the core values of liberal arts education, which is lifelong learning. What do you want to learn today? So the hospitality. The Stone Barn is in the process of being renovated into an event center. It's a great place for all kinds of events, from wedding receptions to conferences. It's a tremendous space. We're very excited about that. But as you think about this mixed use community, again, all in support of the core college activity of educating students. What else can we do? What else can we do? What makes sense for us? So while we don't have a tremendous endowment in terms of dollars, we have 480 acres on Sebago Lake, 2100ft of Sebago Lake shorefront as part of campus. So we feel pretty lucky in that resource. And the question is, how can we use it in the best sense of that term to support our work? So in addition to the Stone Barn, which will become this event and conference center, what else can we do? So we talked about some kind of small and appropriate to the area and to the spirit of the area lodging facility. And that's a project which is still in the conceptual stage. We have some great ideas working for that. We've talked about in the same vein, an active 55 housing community for those who would really love to be able to spend part of their lives right on the water, close to the water, but also really want to have the resources of a vibrant, active community. So one of the ideas that comes out of that is we have our students do tremendous work in terms of community based learning and volunteer services. We've been recognized several years in the President's honor roll. We actually this January received notice that the Carnegie foundation had recognized officially St. Joseph's as a community Engaged Learning College. One of the. I think it's 460 in the country that has that designation. We've got tremendous things going on there. Wouldn't it be great to have a group of additional people who can become part of that activity, People who have decades of business experience and who could mentor our students, could work with them on projects? We're working with the town of Standish on several Projects, we're working with other entities, not for profits and actually some for profits. So to add that other aspect of community based learning, one of the challenges that we recognize in the world these days is that as people stay in the workforce longer, the intergenerational disconnect creates all kinds of opportunities for misunderstanding. Well, why not take that on? Why not? Let's figure out how it is that people from different generations can actually function together and make that part of our project as well. So the hospitality piece is we'd be delighted to have anyone who wants to join us and to be part of our journey. Right. It's a community which is really strong because of its core values. Hospitality is one of them that come from the Sisters of Mercy, who founded the college in 1912. And so if this is a place that seems to you to sort of give off a vibe, that makes sense, Come and see, come and experience. Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

On my second visit to St. Joseph's it was clear that I was not going to escape without a meal. And it was a wonderful meal, but it was so important that I come in and I wasn't prepared. It wasn't just, Lisa, why don't you come to the cafeteria? It was, there's a meal that was on the top floor of, I'm not sure what hall. It was Alphonse Hall, Al Font hall. And out looking over the lake with mountains in the distance and this beautiful spread that was prepared of mostly local and or organic foods. And there was such pride, and not only that, but there was an entire group of people that was all sitting there eating with me. And everybody seemed so happy to be there, so energized by their relationship with St. Joseph's one of your sisters, she described herself as, I believe it was a New York Italian nun, not to be confused with a Boston Irish Catholic nun. But just the way that she described herself was unlike any nun that I have ever met before. I think that her teachings are in criminal justice, for example. And it was fascinating to me that you've taken this idea that many of us have about the religious life or nuns or Catholicism, and you've brought it forward into the future by bringing other people with you that are going to exemplify something different than what we might have traditionally thought about as religious and spiritual.

Jim Dlugos:

It's really a good point. Sister Michelle is actually a graduate of St. Joseph's and when she graduated, she went. Her degrees in sociology, she went and was actually a police officer on Long island before she decided, oh, I have this religious calling. And she came back and rejoined and joined Sisters of Mercy. So, yes, she's an extraordinary person, as are all the sisters who are part of campus. One of the challenges that religious communities who have sponsored all kinds of activities, but especially higher education in this country for a very long time, have is that there are simply diminishing numbers of people who are interested in that kind of commitment. And so the Sisters of Mercy are one of the groups that have recognized that. And while they're very concerned about the future and how it is that the spirit of Catherine McCauley and the special characteristics and charism of spirituality of Catherine McCauley can continue beyond the time when it's conceivable that Sisters of Mercy, vowed Sisters will be available to exemplify that life. So Sisters of Mercy have made a very large project of making sure that the people who are working with them in their ministries, whether it's higher education or hospitals or whatever it is, really understand what this is and are able to express it not just verbally, but also in their actions. And so at the college, one of our goals is to make sure that everything we do sort of exudes mercy, that it really. People understand that. And again, hospitality, respect, recognition of the need to be supportive of those who are less fortunate than we are are all part of that. That's one of the things that I really find Most energizing about St. Joseph's and I found energizing about the place I was prior to coming here. Catholic colleges or faith based colleges really provide another aspect of the conversation we can have in the Kingdom community, because we can talk about things that you can't necessarily talk about, or in some cases, institutions don't choose to talk about. Because, you know, among the things you shouldn't talk about in Play Company are religion and politics. Right? Well, let's talk about religion. Let's talk about spirituality. Maine has an amazing capacity for spirituality, which I think is just tremendous, you know, and every year, of course, every, whatever the cycle is, you know, we get the reports that Maine again has come up as one of the least religious states in some survey. You know, if you live here, it doesn't feel that way because of this strong sense of spirituality. So let's make that part of the conversation. Let's see how that works. One of the goals for one of the initiatives in the strategic plan is to create a center for the 21st century considerations of faith and spirituality. How do those two things come together? Because depending on who you listen to, they're not the same. Well, let's talk about that. Let's see what that looks like. Everyone, it seems to me, has a spirituality, whether they know it or not. If you unpack it for some individuals, they may not be particularly happy about it, but it's there. There are some core values, some things that we really deep, deeply believe and that motivate our actions. Let's try to make that more conscious. Let's try to make that more part of the way we move through the world. The examples of the Sisters of Mercy who are on campus are tremendous for our students. We're lucky. We have eight sisters who are part of the college community. There are many places around the country where they're lucky to have one or two sisters. So we have this wonderful group of sisters. Most of them are retired. Some do volunteer work, Some are teaching, still full time in the classroom, but they're a great example for our students and for the entire college community. We were having a lunch with another guest in the last couple of months, and one of our faculty members, we were talking about the college and he said, well, he said, I'm not Catholic and I really had no thought I would come to work at a Catholic college, but here I am. He says, I've come to understand and really know and appreciate the Sisters of Mercy. And it's that their presence and their charism that informs so much of what we do. And that makes it possible for people who don't have any prior relationship with the Catholic Church or in some cases have, you know, distant relationships or troubled relationships, really, to see a particular expression of Catholicism, which is wonderful and giving and open and embracing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it was interesting for me because my middle child, she just completed a year and she's going into her second year at Providence College, which, as you know, is run by the Friars. They're the Providence College Friars. And they are required to do two years of a core curriculum which involves conversations about sort of the foundations of religion. And I'm not even sure exactly what else is involved, but sort of cultural values and to some extent morality. And I have never had such heated discussions with my child as after her sitting through a lecture about something about the Dante's Inferno and how this sort of relates to her modern day life. And it really struck me that this is something that because it's important enough to a college to have it be there. Similarly, I'm sure that St. Joseph's has some core elements that they're putting out there, that it's actually still relevant to children in this generation. Children, young adults in this generation, and it's still generating conversation, it's still causing them to think about themselves and where they fit in the broader environment.

Jim Dlugos:

So we have cross cutting themes in the strategy are wellness and sustainability. Wellness is the human name for sustainability. And when we talk about that, we don't just mean recycling and we don't just mean buying produce locally. All of which we are doing, and we're delighted to be able to do that to the level that we are. It's extraordinary in some cases. Just as a quick example, 40% of the food we purchase comes from within 300 miles. By comparison, most institutions, institutions are happy if they get to about 10%. So we've made a strong commitment to buying locally. But sustainability for me also means all those things that we care about. So if we care about philosophy, if we care about the classics, if we care about the liberal arts tradition, what are we doing today to ensure that they will be there 50, 100 years from now for other people to care about them and to love them? So, you know, the disciplines themselves need to be, need to be nurtured and cherished. And the classics and Dante's Inferno as an example, if people stop reading it, and there are many reasons to stop reading it, right, what will happen? What will happen to that part of our rich cultural past? You know, in my other part of my life, I'm a literature professor. So now we've maybe gone down a dangerous path. I'll try to rein myself in. You know, classics. Why things become classics is an interesting study in itself. But fundamentally, there's one theory which says classics are classics because for each generation, they raise important questions. Maybe not the exact same questions, you know, and it may not be that they convey truth with a big T, but they generate conversations of the kind you're talking about your daughter is encountering. And we have to make sure, we have to work to make sure that those conversations continue well into the future. Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, Jim, we could keep talking about this for quite a long time. As you know, I'm a big fan of education and actually of classics and of reading and spirituality. And I think that there are so many different ways that the show that we do here with Love, maine radio, and St. Joseph's and the work that you're doing, so many different ways that they touch. But for now, I'll just have to leave people with the knowledge that there is going to be an upcoming article in maine magazine about St. Joseph's College. And I'm really impressed. I'm impressed with what your organization you and the people that you're working with and your entire community, your students are working towards. I love seeing people take something and innovate with it and work with it and nurture it. And that's something that's happening at Stuff Joseph's College. So I really appreciate your doing that.

Jim Dlugos:

Well, thank you. Thank you very much, Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've been speaking with Jim Dlugos, who is the president of St. Joseph's College in Standish, Maine. And for those of you who have not been out to visit, I encourage you to do so to learn about them and read our upcoming Maine Magazine article. Thanks for coming in, Jim.

Jim Dlugos:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Today in the studio, we have with us the first person who has ever worn a dashiki to our recording space, which I love. And it's also kind of interesting because this is Michael Russell, who is the farm manager at Pearsontown Farm, which is affiliated with St. Joseph's College in Standish, Maine. You wouldn't necessarily think that somebody would be wearing such a brightly colored garment, which actually is originally of Africa. So thanks for livening up our space, Michael.

Michial Russell:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it's great to have you here. Thank you I'm actually personally impressed that I knew that this was called a dashiki before. John McCain, our audio producer, actually mentioned this. And you have an interesting connection to

Michial Russell:

Africa, A couple of loose affiliations with Africa. I've had a number of friends who've gone over there and served with a number of nonprofit organizations largely involved with agriculture in the area. And it's become a point of interest for me, just because as climate change is happening, we're finding that we're in a place now where we have to be much more creative about how we're going to grow our food. And if ever there was an adverse environment to grow food in, especially some of the traditional foods, we think about Africa being hot and dry at times, there's a place there. And so some of the technology, using that term loosely, that we've seen that they use for growing things that we would commonly find here is fascinating to me. So. And I'm gonna make a confession. I did not know that it was called a tashiki. Tashiki. Yeah. I just call it my summer shirt. So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's very. It happens to be. It's orange and yellow and green and there's big, big patterns and. But the last time I met you at St. Joseph's you were not wearing this summer shirt. You were wearing more traditional farmer's garb, I would say.

Michial Russell:

Right. And that's because, you know, you have to make certain sacrifices being a farmer, and you're surrounded constantly by dirt, so you tend to burn through your nice clothes more quickly. So we have our rugged, get dirty clothes, and then we have our nice go to town or be out in public clothes. Brightly colored. This is what we wear out.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'm enjoying it, so thank you. It definitely has brightened up my morning so far. So why are you a farmer? I'm always interested in the answer to

Michial Russell:

this question because I love it, I think. Well, if you ask my wife, she would tell you right off the bat I would die in an office. I spent probably the better part of 15 years working in a cubicle doing various things, but the second that I got off of work, I was out. I was in the garden. My very earliest memories with my parents were out in the garden. We. I grew up in a very agricultural heavy environment in Central California. So it was all around us. In the summertime, we were picking berries. In the autumn, we were harvesting, whatever there may be. We'd always raised some manner of animal, livestock or otherwise, in the yard. And so the idea of being able to mingle my Passions with the rest of my life. I know there's that old adage about not mixing work and pleasure, but outside all the time. You know, snow, rain, sleet, sun, what have you. And there's that opportunity to bring others along for the ride. In the last 70 years, we've become so disconnected from where our food comes from. We take it for granted that we can go to Shaws or Hannaford or Safeway. If you're on the west coast and you pick it up and there it is. And so for me, it's becoming more and more important to bring people out to that environment. And it allows me to be an educator and work with a wide variety of people without being stuck in a box.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I did notice this when I was at the farm, that you have a number of students working with you. From what I understand, you actually have people who are normally food service during the school year when St. Joseph's is fully operational, they actually come out and do some grounds work and some farm work. So there are a lot of other people who are interested in getting their hands in to the dirt.

Michial Russell:

Absolutely. I think now more than, well, maybe in any time in recent history, people are really reconnecting. And this foodie movement that's, you know, just maybe 10 or 15 years now is really finding its way into a lot of people's brains. And people want to connect with where their food goes. And I think that there's also. There's something very spiritual about being able to get out and. And not just connect with your food, but be outside. We're in a culture where we're always on our computers or our tablets or our iPhones, and texting is the new form of communication. And so to slow that down, to really be able to get out and do something that maybe is more an organic speed, I think really appeals to folks. And even the younger kids. The younger kids have been great. So there's this weird. You've got my age and older who kind of have some fond memories of grandma and maybe mom and dad working in the garden, having their garden. And then there's this gap. And then you've got these younger kids who come into. They're born into this resurgence in organic agriculture and connecting with their food, and there's that gap in the middle. And so really connecting with those folks, I think is important because a lot of them come out and they're terrified they'll come out in their brand new white sneakers or their nice clothes and you can see the terror in their eyes. But then they get into the work, and they realize how fulfilling it is. And oftentimes it's those folks that come back for more.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I remember the same thing that you're describing, that my parents actually dug up part of their front lawn and put a garden in, and they had us out there weeding, and we always had a compost pile. And myself in my own life, I would put a few tomatoes out by the door, yard in the dooryard, and I have always had a compost pile. But, yeah, I definitely feel like there is something that happened where all of a sudden, there was something scary about trying to grow something. And I don't know why that is, because we still have backups. We still have Safeway, Hannaford, Shaw's local food, local farmer's markets. There's still gonna be food even if we can't grow it. So I wonder why we're afraid.

Michial Russell:

I think it's just culturally, it's become a foreign phenomenon. You know, we think about. I can only speak really personally. I can't speak for everyone, but, you know, you've got middle America where all of the corn and the soy and all of the produce is grown, and then it comes back and we have the convenience of going and picking it up from the supermarket. But then that leaves us with this information, with this education gap where, okay, I know where to get it from, but how do I get it from here to there by way of that? I mean, growing it from seed to fruit, what if I'm going to do it wrong? What about the insects? What about the food safety? I think food safety is at the forefront of everybody's mind. And I think that there is

Jim Dlugos:

a

Michial Russell:

great misunderstanding as to what that means. And in some ways, we've become afraid of our food in the last 10 or 15 years. You know, you can go to the Safeway or the Hannaford, and you can pick up a bag of spinach. But we've seen salmonella problems with the spinach there. And if it's happening on a commercial level, will it happen in my backyard? And so maybe that makes us a little nervous about the idea of trying to do it ourselves.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I think about all. I mean, spinach is one example, but we've seen ground beef recalls. We've seen. I mean, there isn't really anything that hasn't escaped some sort of food issue. And that's just the stuff that actually makes us ill in the short term. That's just the diseases that crop up maybe as a result of poor Fertilization or whatever, for whatever reason, microbes are making it into that farming situation. But we don't even know about some of the stuff that might be making us sick longer term, some of the stuff that's being used on crops. And we don't even know how this really impacts us, pesticides or antibiotics in livestock. So there is this interesting question that every day we have to get up and have three square meals and some snacks in between. We're putting it into our bodies. But what is it that's going in that we don't even realize?

Michial Russell:

Right. Well, and I think that that leads to a much larger conversation because we have some of these unanswered questions, but then that, you know, what are the impact of these things? But then, but then there's also a question of resources. When the lion's share of our food system is completely dependent on petroleum products, and we know that the population is increasing and we know that petroleum is a finite resource and we know that that supply will decrease. What's plan B? What's the impact on the environment? And we need to ask ourselves questions like that because in our lifetime, in our children's lifetime, maybe even our grandchildren's lifetime, that's not going to directly become a problem or impact us. But what happens down the road? What happens to the generations to follow us? And I think we have a moral obligation to use our resources more wisely, to stretch them out, make them more available to others, but also not to negatively impact long term health of not only ourselves but also the planet.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm sitting here just thinking about all the things that you just said and the broader implications of these. And I'm also thinking about what it means to really, to get into the dirt and to be dirty and to really be faced with, I guess when I was torn, something that was just seared in my mind. I'm a doctor, so I've seen people who have passed away and I've seen birth and I've seen that, you know, the very reality of just being in existence. But when I was visiting your farm last fall, there was a little group of rabbits that had been born and had not survived and their little bodies were lying there. And that's the nature of it. That is truly the nature of this life that we inhabit. And yet I believe that we are all disconnected from this. So that becomes also a thing of fear. Life, death, birth, illness. And that's something that we don't get to see if we're just going to the supermarket and taking something off the shelf.

Michial Russell:

Right. And there's a disconnect there. So I have three children and I was a vegetarian for 12 years, better part of 12 years. When we got pregnant with our first, we decided that protein was probably a good idea just for my wife's sake. And so when the children were born, we established one very simple rule, and that is, if you're going to be part of the food system on the consumer end, you have to participate in the whole cycle. And this is not only just the life and death element of it. So they all, they get to choose whatever their animal is, whether it's a chicken or a lamb or whatnot, and they raise it from the day it's born, and they participate in the processing of it. And they only have to do it once, but that's so they understand the fullness of the life cycle, because we don't. See, we go to Hannaford and we go to the butcher shop and we pick up that nice packaged steak with no need to think about what was the process and were completely removed from it. But there's also the human element of it. Having not participated in that, can you empathize with the folks that are in the slaughterhouses that have to do the meat cutting and the packaging and the farmers who have to sort the cows and decide which ones do we keep, which ones do we cull? I feel like there's a dangerous propensity for us to become entitled. We're entitled to this, but we've never actually earned it and we don't understand it. And I feel, I think that that understanding is important.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I've also thought about. And I'm also a vegetarian, although I eat fish, and it's more. In raising an animal to eat, it takes up more energy. So I just try to steer closer to the vegetables. I'm trying to make it clear that I'm not some sort of extreme animal activist. This is sort of where I've come to in my life. Health reasons, ethical reasons, personal decision. But when I think about people who do eat animal products and the animals themselves and how they're raised, the energy that goes into raising an animal so that it can be used for meat if it's humanely raised and they're not feeling stressed out while they're eating the grass, and they're not feeling stressed out while they're being milked for milk and they're not stressed out when they finally will be spent, sacrifice for food, then I would think that their stress hormones would be lower and I would think that they would actually be healthier for us to eat anyway.

Michial Russell:

Right. Well, and when we look at nature, so the farm is based on a permaculture principle, permaculture design. And part of that is, what do we see in nature that we can mimic? Agriculture is so intensely dependent on foreign inputs. Fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, feed, seeds, all these things that by and large, most farms we have to ship in. So there's a carbon footprint there because you've got the trucks and the packaging and all of that. And when we look at nature, nature has been doing what nature has been doing for a very long time. And by and large, it's in balance. If something goes a little out of whack, it corrects itself very quickly. And it's not shipping things. And you don't see Bullwinkle out on a tractor fertilizing the forest, and you don't see, you know, Rocket, the flying squirrel in a crop duster. But what you see is you see animals and vegetation in balance. And I think there's a spiritual element to it. I think you were kind of leading in that direction. But there's also, you know, we need this in our food system. We need to eat more vegetables, by and large, because we don't eat enough vegetables. And we are very protein dependent. But when we do eat those proteins, those who choose to, how, rather than being a separate piece of the food production system, how do those integrate together? Because I think you see animals that are raised on large, confined animal feed operations, we all, maybe in our heads have this idea that our happy steaks came from happy cows on happy grass and happy farms. But really, if you look at some of these large cattle operations, you've got cows on barren dirt with a conveyor belt with feed coming across. And that's not the way that nature has ever done it. And so, you know, by and large, they're missing some of those, the nutrients that they're going to get out of the natural feedstocks that they're eating. They're missing that happy cow, spiritual, if you will, element to it. And it's going to be a completely different nutrient supply for the end stage consumers. That would be us. We need to get back to a place where if we're going to eat proteins, and again, I feel like we should eat more vegetables. Proteins are not a bad thing. We see it in nature. There are herbivores, there are carnivores, predator and prey animals, and that's all part of the cycle of life. And the end result of Those animals goes back to feed the plants, which goes back to feed the animals. And we have a system there. And I think that we need to get back to that in the human, in the consumer phase of the whole food process, if not just for our physical health, also for our psychological and spiritual health of it all.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One thing that people have brought up when I've had this type of conversation with them previously is how do we scale up where we have such a large population ever growing, ever needing food. How do we get to this place where we can offer a permaculture type of operation in a way that we can actually feed people effectively?

Michial Russell:

Well, and that's what we hope to be able to demonstrate over at the farm. Permaculture in the larger commercial agriculture system is kind of taboo word people. You know, this is the way we've always done it. This is the way it has to be done. When somebody introduces something new and we're naturally resistant to change, we know how we've always done it and that's great. So by creating a farm based on natural systems and based on the idea of reducing hopefully the amount of work and the amount of inputs that we're bringing in, perhaps it's not going to be the great cash cow, but creating balance. Balance I think is the single most important thing. And I don't think that we would be prudent to move to an all permaculture system or an all organic system or an all conventional system. So here one of my great concerns is that like I said, the bulk of our food system is completely dependent on this one petroleum driven food model. Where's our plan B? When that collapses for whatever reason, we run out of oil or some other unforeseen hiccup comes. Where's our plan B? As we talk about scaling up, let's talk about now. You know, a couple years back we had a drought that went through most of the middle part of America. And food prices on everything from corn on the cob to Eggos went right through the ceiling. You know, we saw just with feedstock, we saw a 30% increase in less than two weeks. So now you've got folks maybe in the bottom economic brackets who were already struggling to access food, whether it be healthy or otherwise. Now they can't even access the, we're going to use this phrase loosely, the not so healthy foods. So our hope is to, when we're thinking about scale up, thinking about diversifying, you know, inherently the use of oil is not bad. I think the problem comes in how many of us are using how much of it all the time? So say we wean off of that great dependence and we back it up with a more conventionalized organic system and then also with a permaculture system. So now we're still producing food, but in a way that will last much, much longer.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What I think is interesting is that you are not just talking the talk, you're actually walking the walk along with these, with St. Joseph students and also students from the community around St. Joseph's and also people who are a little bit older who want to come visit the gardens. And so you're. So for you, it's really, you're living the life that you are hoping to

Michial Russell:

model, I guess I think that's important. You know, it's one thing do as I say, not as I do. I think we have to do. And there are folks out there that are into permaculture and permaculture design who are just light years ahead of what we're doing. And so bringing all of those groups together, we have access to larger tracts of land than some, but there are folks with maybe a bit more knowledge. And if we can bring those together to create a working sustainable model, you know, that's kind of our end game. And show other farmers that it can be done. Maine, we're seeing a rise in organic farmers. People have seen, okay, organic can happen and there's that passion for it. So now we need to take that organic to the next step and say, okay, let's put permaculture. It can be done and it can be sustainable. And it creates environmental balance, spiritual balance, psychological balance, economic balance. And I think that that balance, that's really at the heart of everything.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You mentioned that you originally had Central Californian roots and somehow you ended up here in Maine. I believe your wife is from South Portland originally. She is indeed. So how did that connection happen?

Michial Russell:

That's a long story. For another short, we were the result of a 3,000 mile blind date. I met some folks that she grew up with, they were working on the west coast. And the long and the short of it was I spent several months avoiding her because I wasn't about blind dates. In fact, our first date, they decided that they would get us all together on the beach and we would have a group date. And so I proceeded to throw her into the surface. We had a little wrestling match and I threw her into the surf. She had to go to a meeting immediately following this. So I figured I'd make her really mad and that would End this blind date nonsense. And two weeks later, there we were on our second first date. And not long after we were married. And here we are.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how old are your children?

Michial Russell:

Children are 9, 10 and 14.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So I guess it's worked out okay so far.

Michial Russell:

It's worked out all right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. And how do you like Maine?

Michial Russell:

Oh, I love Maine. So I had summered up here previously. My grandmother and aunt had lived near Bath and so we had come up for summers, which was great. What they hadn't warned me about was winter. So we, you know, back home we could drive to the snow if we wanted to, but that was kind of an anomaly. But yeah, I don't think I was ready for the cold. I'm used to four season growing and we're finding new ways, with much thanks to Elliot Coleman, to grow even through the winter using some hoop house technologies. Not quite the same, but it works. It's good.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how has it been for you working over at St. Joseph's oh, it's phenomenal.

Michial Russell:

I love that. It's not just about the mechanics of it, but it's deeper than that. It's not just about growing the food. It's not just about finding results. It's about creating community. It's about impacting people. Not just college students for that four year window, but we work with a whole range of folks. We've had the elderly out, we've had the very, very young. And we're able to create an educational experience for them that's tailored to what they need in that moment. So it's not formulaic. The community by and large at the school is very supportive. In fact, we had some professors out, some business professors out. They took off their suits for a little while, came out and helped us work in the fields the other day, which was phenomenal. And it's just great to see the energy of the college getting behind something that I think other colleges might shy away from.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's been very clear to me in the visits that I've made to St. Joseph's that you and the president, Jim Dlugos are quite close. So he must, there must be some embracing of the farmer and the farm.

Michial Russell:

Well, if nothing else, he tolerates my madness and so that's good. I thought Jim has been monumental in helping things grow. And you know, the first couple of years we were on the farm, it was the previous president and there was the agreement that, yeah, we'll grow for a year, we'll see how it goes. Maybe next year you'll be here Maybe you won't. And then the next year came. So when Jim came onto the scene, he really became that Lincoln and he saw the potential there and he, he absolutely ran with it. And what's been good was that he sometimes agriculture speaks a different language than business or the rest of the world, even academics. And so Jim has been able to translate and hopefully make some sense out of the gibberish that I say to the rest of the folks on campus. And it's been good.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how do your kids like this whole farming thing and getting close to the things that they're going to be eating?

Michial Russell:

My 14 year old will probably move to New York City just as soon as is humanly possible. My younger two, I think they'll stick with it for a while. Of the three, two sons and a daughter, I think my daughter is in this for the long haul. But sometimes they drag their feet, but by and large they get behind it and they enjoy going out and harvesting the produce that they eat. They don't necessarily like the processing of the livestock, but they like the end result and they like the beginning result. So I think they'll do all right.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And how do they feel about working with all of these people who are in and out of the farm over time and the relationship with St. Joseph's

Michial Russell:

yeah, no, they, they absolutely love it. And so we have been very intentional about making sure that our children are just in the community. Farming is important and sustainability is important, but community building is the most important. If we don't have each other to rely on, then we really haven't anything. So they have adopted a number of the college students as they come through and they have worked with everybody from the kindergartners on up. I had my 9 year old, nope, my 10 year old. We had new student orientation not too long ago and I was working with a group and I turned around to see my 10 year old leading a farm tour. So that was both exciting and terrifying. But he got his information correct. So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I appreciate the work that you're doing out at St. Joseph's I think it's, I think about my own small college experience up at Bowdoin. It was great. It's also right in the middle of Brunswick, so it's not like they easily could have put a farm there, but it would have been really a different thing altogether if we had, if I was walking from classroom to dirt. It is a valuable thing that we're bringing back to people and something I know that, that a lot of individuals are craving. So the fact that you're able to integrate this new way of doing things into the college community I think is pretty admirable.

Michial Russell:

Well, appreciate it. We do what we can.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

We've been speaking with Michael Russell, who is the Farm manager at Pearsontown Farm, which is affiliated with St. Joseph's College in Standish, Maine. Thanks so much for coming in and talking to us today and good luck with the raising of the crops.

Michial Russell:

Thank you very much.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have been listening to Love Maine Radio show number 204, St. Joseph's a small college Renaissance. Our guests have included James Dlugos and Michael Russell. Love Maine Radio is downloadable for free on itunes. Follow me on Twitter as DrLisa and see my running travel, food and wellness photos as bountiful1 on Instagram. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring LoveMain Radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our St. Joseph's a small college Renaissance show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.

Jim Dlugos:

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