Sisters #41

Linda Greenlaw:

We each know what we don't know. My sister has a business head. I do not. Different styles of communicating. We communicate very well together. Our writing styles are totally different. I'm a writer, you know. I sent something to my sister. She's like, I could have said that in three bullets. Now I've just spent like all day writing like 10 pages, like no bullets,

Beth Shissler:

you know, Ironically, we all went off and did our thing out of state and we all came home. I tell every main parent that laments because their kids are leaving, don't worry. We all come back and we're all back now and we're all living very, very close to each other.

Jessica Tomlinson:

How can we move the needle on the arts and raise the bar and have a different kind of conversation and create change? That's what I'm really interested in doing.

Sonya:

There's this appreciation for what each other can get done, and I think that I'm feeling more like an adult in our relationship. In the last five years, which has

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Today in the studio, I have with me today Genevieve Morgan. Hello, Genevieve. Good to see you again.

Genevieve Morgan:

Good to see you, Lisa. I'm excited for our show today.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. We have two sets of very interesting sisters coming on to talk to us about sort of the sisterhood. What's your experience with sisters?

Genevieve Morgan:

Benjamin well, I actually have two brothers, but I have four stepsisters. So though I never really had the blood bond with sisters, I got to see it and then I got a little taste of it on the periphery. I would say My experience with sisterhood is that it's exceedingly close and exceedingly volatile.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think that's a good observation. I have four sisters. There are 10 in my family, as we've talked about before, and I've seen both sides, although in general I get along very well with my sisters. They're all younger, but there is definitely a female thing that seems to kind of intertwine sometimes there.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, it's interesting too because I think that birth order and siblinghood can really impact your sense of health and well being and self esteem. Because it's your tribe, it's your tribe of origin. How is it being the eldest of a large tribe of origin?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I love all of my brothers and sisters and I always say this. I have a great relationship with each and every one of them now. They're all around the country. Being the oldest in a family of 10 was not an easy, it was not an easy thing. And the next sisters down from me were 19 months and they were twins. And they're very strong. They were very strong little women even then and they're very strong women now. So I do think it really shaped the person that I became as an adult.

Genevieve Morgan:

Are they supportive of you now?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

All of my brothers and sisters are supportive of me now. And I see this in my own sisters. I mean, my own daughters as sisters. I see them, I have my Abby who's 16, and my Sophie who's 11. And they, they equally kind of fight and don't get along, but then also are fiercely loyal to one another. So it's such an interesting thing to watch.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, I went to an all girls school and I think that even when you don't have sisters, women tend to create bonds of sisterhood with their friends. And I think it must have a huge evolutionary reason behind it that we tend to, as females put our feelers out and try to find similar women that we can really share with. And I think there is a, some data that shows that when women are together and sharing their confidences, they release oxytocin, the attachment hormone. And so there is actually a sisterhood hormone.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I also think that, and I don't, I can't speak to this exactly evolutionarily, but I mean, if you have the women who are taking care of the children and they share the responsibility of taking care of the children, they also are going to want to really contribute to the sustainability of a community. So whether it's a sister that you're working with or you're working with another person who's a Pseudo sister, but another female in the community. I think you are interested in making the community work for your children and for other women's children. And not to say that men don't do the same thing. I think they just do it in a slightly different way.

Genevieve Morgan:

Do you find that being a female healthcare practitioner, that there are women who come to see you want that kind of support from you as well, that kind of sustained. It's almost. I wouldn't say it's maternal, but there is a different. If we're talking about sisterhood here, is there a different bond that you have with your female patients to your male patients?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think the one thing that I have with my female patients that I don't have as much with my male patients is just this shared understanding. I mean, to be able to know what it's like to be a working mother, to be able to know what it's like to be a sister, to be an aunt. And I just. I think I am able to relate really well to the men and understand what they're going through, but I will never understand it to the same extent. And I think any woman that comes to see me as a healthcare looking for health care is looking for somebody who understands, who's looking for somebody who can sort of share that experience.

Genevieve Morgan:

Maybe that's really the secret of sisterhood. It's not necessarily the blood bond, but that shared sense of understanding, whether it's in times of challenges or in times of victories, that there's somebody out there that gets you in a way that nobody else does well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it's interesting because as I'm sitting here and I'm thinking about you and I and our relationship, you and I started knowing each other about a year and a half ago, and you wrote an article for Maine Magazine for their first wellness issue. And you and I and John McCain have worked very closely for the past almost a year on this radio show. And there's been this interesting bond that's developed even then that you and I have gone through our individual personal challenges, we've gone through the radio show challenges, and I often have the sense that there are things that you understand about me and my situation that. And actually, John. I have to give John credit, too. He's not our sister, but we'll let him be a pseudo sister.

Genevieve Morgan:

He's in the bond of sisterhood.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

He's in the bond. Yeah. We're all. Lots of love going on here. I think that you do start to understand things about one another, and you actually can sort of feed back information that's so helpful. So it's so it's been an interesting experience just to develop an additional sister.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, we'll have to see what the other sisters in our show today have

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

to say about that. Absolutely. And today we have coming in Beth Schisler who is the president of Seabags, and Linda Greenlaw who is a best selling New York Times best selling author. And we also have the Tomlinson sisters, Sonia and Jessica. So I suspect that they're going to have a lot of very interesting things to say about sisterhood and to say about creating a sustainable business and personal interactive community. So I look forward to having them on our show. The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is pleased to be sponsored by the University of New England. And as part of this sponsorship we have every week a segment we call Wellness Innovations. This week's Wellness Innovation came from a study called who said you'd could wear my sweater? What Adolescent Siblings Fight about and How It Affects Their Relationship, which was recently published in Child Development. Whether it is about who gets to ride shotgun or who wore a shirt without asking, siblings fight while seemingly innocent A study at the University of Missouri reveals that certain types of fights can affect the quality of sibling relationships. Researchers identified two major types of conflict among adolescent siblings and found that conflicts about emotional and personal space have a negative impact on trust and communication between siblings. The second conflict area includes equality and fairness issues such as taking turns and sharing responsibilities. These conflicts had no impact on relationship quality. While both younger and older siblings reported personal space conflicts, older siblings reported these conflicts more frequently, according to the researchers. This suggests that older siblings are more sensitive to personal space issues and may indicate the beginning of their separation from the family. The findings of this study can help parents, psychologists, and other individuals who work with teens understand the impact that conflicts can have on sibling relationships and the importance of setting up family boundaries to reduce sibling conflicts about personal space. For more information on this Wellness Innovation, visit drlisabelisle.com for more information on the University of New England, visit une.edu.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast, we are thrilled to be able to have a conversation with sisters. Two sisters in here. Both very interesting in and of their own rights. Beth Schisler is the co owner and president of Seabags Incorporated and was born and raised in Maine. And her older sister. Am I allowed to say that you're older, Linda?

Linda Greenlaw:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Okay. All right. So her older sister, Linda Greenlawn, is America's only female sword fishing captain and author of three New York Times best selling books about life as a commercial fisherman, which we'll talk more about later. But thanks so much for coming in today.

Linda Greenlaw:

Thank you for having us.

Beth Shissler:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Now, I talked to Beth a few weeks back and I was fascinated to hear about your growing up in Maine. What was it like to grow up in Maine and then both of you take very sort of international kind of paths? I mean, you started here, but you've gone lots of places now. How do you think growing up in Maine shaped that?

Linda Greenlaw:

I think that our family had a lot to do with, you know, how my sister and I sort of developed through the years. We had a very close knit family, but we were exposed to a lot. But it was a lot of natural things. We didn't travel. We went between Topson, Maine and Isla Ho, which is our summer home, which is where our dad's family is from. And we didn't do vacations. Our family did not go to Florida. We went to Idaho. And it was always just such a. Our first love was going to the island. We lived for it.

Beth Shissler:

And I think that's where we learned that hard, hard working is really having fun, too. I mean, we spent our summers up there from the minute school got out to the minute school went back in again. And we didn't have electricity, we didn't have plumbing, we didn't have TV up there. You know, we didn't know any better. We, you know, our fun was lugging things up to the lighthouse. It was, you know, helping our dad create a road when we needed to. It was bushwhacking. It was, you know, putting around the shore, whatever it was, right?

Linda Greenlaw:

If we, if we needed fresh water, we had to travel up and down a huge hill and carry it by hand, dip it out of a well by hand with buckets and dump them into containers and carry them up the hill. And actually our punishment, if we were doing something our mother didn't like, was we'd hear this glug, glug, glug. She'd be dumping the water down the sink and say, time to go get water.

Beth Shissler:

And it would take us all day because we found a few distractions along the way. But I think that that's when we really learned that working could be fun. And I'm not sure we ever considered at work. I'm not sure we still do.

Linda Greenlaw:

Especially once we had a vehicle down there that whenever we went to get water we'd steal the car. But you know, clearly life on an island as a kid, you do have so much more independence, so much more freedom. I like to say that our nephews, I love watching them because they do all the things that we did as kids and it's just kind of fun to relive our childhood through them. And I think, you know, like the safety of the kids is checked at the high water mark. If they're below the high water mark, they have life jackets on. If they're above the high water mark, they probably have a helmet on because they're going to be on a bicycle or a motorcycle or a four wheeler. And it's a pretty special place to grow up. I mean, we had really nice childhood. Our friends would probably tell you we've had really long childhoods, but that's okay too.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So. Well, let's back up a little bit for people who are listening. I know that Ilaho is a very special place for lots of different reasons, but tell us a little bit about that. What is so special about Idaho?

Linda Greenlaw:

Well, a lot of things are special about Ilaho. Half the island is Acadia national park, so it will never be developed. There's beautiful hiking trails, but because it is so remote, there's not a lot of use in that park. You have to get there by mailboat. There's not a state run ferry so you can't bring a car over. You have to really want to get to Islaho to be there. So it makes it a pretty special experience for visitors. And as far as having family there, it's a very close knit group. They say it takes a village to, to raise a child.

Beth Shissler:

It's true.

Linda Greenlaw:

On Idaho there are four kids in the Ilaho schoolhouse, one of the very few remaining one room schoolhouses on a remote outpost probably in the world, I'm guessing. So it's just special for a lot of reasons. There's one little general store, one fuel pump for gas. I mean the store is open right now about four hours a week. Very small window of opportunity to get your groceries. So you really have to plan ahead or have good neighbors that you can, that you can pump stuff from.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And is there now electricity or water or any of the modern conveniences?

Beth Shissler:

Oh yeah, yeah. We have Internet, although I don't have it at my house yet. But we do have Internet. You can plumbing and electricity. But I can check my Email at her house. So we have all the things that people need.

Genevieve Morgan:

So, Linda, I want to talk a little bit about your sisterhood. And your name came into international renown with Sebastian Junger's book, the Perfect Storm. Did you know how dangerous her job was when you were growing, when she. She's older than you are, so did you know. Did you. Do you worry about her, Beth?

Beth Shissler:

No, I absolutely do worry about her.

Jessica Tomlinson:

Now.

Beth Shissler:

Back then, at the time where she was fishing, I was actually living in Japan, so. And I didn't know any better. Linda's eight years older. When she started sword fishing, it was to put herself through college. And I just thought it was kind of a cool summer job. So now I'm fully aware. And, you know, it's a little bit easier now than it used to be because, you know, we do have radios and we do have satellite telephones. So when she's been fishing in the last few years, you know, I'm the pain in the butt sister that tends to call in at $80aminute when I shouldn't, just to make sure she's okay.

Linda Greenlaw:

Oh, yeah, Listen, I was in Kenya a couple months ago working as a consultant for fisheries, and think the guy that hired me got a very panicked email and phone call because I hadn't done a daily check in. I'm in Kenya, and he'd call my sister every day.

Beth Shissler:

Yeah, I have a. We have a little separation anxiety at this point, but actually, I do. You don't.

Linda Greenlaw:

Oh, I do, too.

Genevieve Morgan:

So you feel linked in a psychic way as well as in a. Yeah, we are.

Linda Greenlaw:

We're not so psychic.

Beth Shissler:

She didn't check in.

Linda Greenlaw:

Yeah, right.

Beth Shissler:

There was no psychic going on.

Linda Greenlaw:

You know, we're, you know, a lot of things. Number one, we're very close sisters. Number two, we're best friends. Number three, we're business partners. So, you know, there's a lot of connections here. There's a lot of reason, you know, to be checking in on a daily basis.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What made it possible for you to have such a successful relationship? There are some sisters that don't get along at all. So what do you think were the things that contributed to this really positive, ongoing interaction?

Beth Shissler:

Well, I think that our whole family is very. Our entire family is very close. You know, I have a twin brother who Linda and I are both extremely close to and adore his children, and we had another sister that we were also very close to. I think, you know, I think we have to credit our parents for just instilling family, you know, as a really important thing, because at the end of the day, you know, we know that we can count on each other.

Linda Greenlaw:

Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that's a. That's the bottom line of it. It's the way we grew up, close family. And we were, like, actually horrified. We have this conversation occasionally because we have friends or whatever who are like, oh, they haven't spoken to their mother in, like, they're mad. They're having this, like, big fight, or they hate their sisters. Like, what, are you kidding me? We're like, wow. And, you know, we find out that actually we're the strange ones because we don't fight.

Beth Shissler:

Yeah. We actually horrify a lot of our friends because when they come to Idaho, I mean, we're really clannish. We all have our own houses out there, so we go back to our own pillows at night, but we actually spend every meal together. It's a little bit weird. We thought it was normal until we have friends out that were like, oh, we're gonna eat with your family again.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you have a good relationship with your mom, too. She also was part of a business venture recently. Do you want to tell us about that?

Linda Greenlaw:

My mom and I have co authored two cookbooks, which is really special thing. You know, I've always been a huge tomboy, and I did a lot with my dad growing up and did a few things with my mom, but it was mostly just kind of like hanging around the kitchen. If she was cooking, I might start stir something. But doing a cookbook with my mom was a very special experience, and we did the first one when she was 70 years old, and it was very cool. The cookbooks are something we're really proud of. They're beautiful. The publishers did a great job, so it's been really nice.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

For those who are listening who want to get one of those cookbooks, can you tell me their names?

Linda Greenlaw:

Well, the first one they can't get anymore, so I won't even bother with that one. And the more recent one is Maine summers.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what type of food does that have in it?

Linda Greenlaw:

It's what everyone's doing. It's local, fresh ingredients. I think the difference is people say local and fresh. That's nice. But on Isle A, there's not another option. You have to eat what you have there.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And, Beth, how have you incorporated your mom into maybe your business life or.

Beth Shissler:

Oh, there's no option. Our mother incorporates into our lives. And, you know, we should mention that we're really close to our dad. My dad is the best Business guy. I know. And, you know, still kind of my go to for questions, you know, when I just want to settle down and talk things through. He's the guy. So in 82, he's doing great.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So tell me about your older sister. I think, Beth, one of the first times I ever spoke with you was right around the time that you had this tragedy occur in your family. And I know it was really hard for you.

Sonya:

Yeah.

Linda Greenlaw:

Our older sister Rhonda was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and sadly passed away eight months later, which was. We're coming up on the one year anniversary. And I don't think I'm like, tougher than my sister Beth, but she still, you know, tears up a little bit easier than I do. Again, you know, we have a very close family. It was very tough. It was very difficult for my parents. You know, no parent is supposed to be losing a child and, you know, but we all got through it and life goes on and we have, you know, great memories. But still, by the same token, it's very sad to lose, you know, a sister.

Genevieve Morgan:

Was Rhonda in between the two of you?

Beth Shissler:

No, she was our older sister. So she was 10 years older than I am and two years older than Linda, so. And, you know, it was a lot of silver lining through the whole experience, you know. You know, I say now that Rhonda really took one for the team. You know, we. There were so many blessings through the whole thing. You know, we all came together, we were there. We've always been there for each other, but, you know, we were there from the minute she was diagnosed as a family and, you know, until the minute she took her last breath and, you know, celebrating her life still. So it was a very difficult time. I wouldn't wish on anyone. It's just a horrible, horrible disease. But, you know, some good things happen, too.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, I'm very sorry about that. And I know that I can't remember the exact percentage of DNA, but the closest people in the world, siblings. We all share about 99.89% of our DNA with our siblings, which is kind of remarkable when you think of how different siblings are. But when I think of you and your sister, I think, well, here she is right here in front of us.

Linda Greenlaw:

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I take that as a huge compliment. And I also take it as a compliment when I look at the sister next to me, it's like, yep, I'm sharing that DNA. I want all of it hip.

Beth Shissler:

That's a little. That's nice that you say that. I feel the same way, but you might be horrified in some respects. No. You know, what a difference a year makes. We're coming up on the one year anniversary and, you know, so many great things have happened, you know, and this year, that is just amazing to think. And we do credit, you know, Rhonda for being there and guiding us through it. You know, however hokey that might sound to some people, it's, you know, some remarkable things have happened to everybody in our family, and we know that, you know, she's really there watching out for us. So it's a good thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Tell me about some of the things that you learned during this difficult process.

Linda Greenlaw:

I think the most obvious thing that I learned is that, and people say it all the time, you don't pay much attention, is just how short life is and how you really need to just live and love every minute of your life. Because guess what? We're not all here forever. None of us are here forever. And some of us are here for a very short time.

Beth Shissler:

Yeah. And I think that in the last year, we've really identified with that and, you know, we've, you know, made some decisions more easily and more quickly than we might have otherwise, because life does change, you know, on an instant, not a dime. I think that we also learned that as strong as we want to be, there was nothing like hospice for us. You know, it was really nice to have as close as we all were, and we're there every single minute. It was really nice to have somebody that's actually trained to guide us through the process. And it was a real relief for our sister, too, to have that. That unbiased, impartial person to come in, that she could say anything and not worry about disappointing anybody. So, you know, as much as we think that we can do it all, we just can't in some cases.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So how are your parents doing with this?

Beth Shissler:

Better by the day, you know, but it was a tough year for them. I mean, they, like Linda said, no parent should have to go through that. And, you know, they were there for all of it up until the very end. And so, you know, I think they're better.

Linda Greenlaw:

Yeah, they are much better.

Genevieve Morgan:

How did your brother do in a house full of girls, house full of sisters?

Beth Shissler:

Oh, you mean the king. Yeah, fine.

Linda Greenlaw:

I thought you were going to say, oh, the other sister.

Beth Shissler:

He's great. He's great. He is, you know, one of our best friends.

Linda Greenlaw:

I do. And he is. Yeah, no doubt. And I tell people this all the time about our brother Charlie or Chuck. He is probably the best husband and father that I know, and I take a little credit for that. Coming up in a house full of girls, he knows how to treat women. And coming up with a father who is wonderful, he knows how to be a good father. And I think his wife Jen should be thanking us.

Beth Shissler:

I'm sure we'll remind her this weekend.

Linda Greenlaw:

Okay.

Beth Shissler:

So, yeah, you know, he's great in his own right, and, you know, very much handled it, Handled all the women very, very well. Ironically, he has two boys, so he's probably grateful for that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'd say so now. He was a twin. You're a twin. Linda, what was it like to have twin baby siblings?

Linda Greenlaw:

It was, you know, it was actually a lot of fun. And I remember when they were born, because I'm eight years older. I was eight years. Eight years old. And, yeah, I spent a lot of time with my younger brother and sister. I babysat a lot. We always had chores as kids, and my older sister and I, we took turns. One night, we'd have the kitchen or we'd have the twins. And if your duty was twins, it was make sure they're in the bathtub and make sure they get in their pajamas. So, you know, we spent a lot of time together that way. And I remember when I got my driver's license, I was 15 years old. And of course, the twins were seven. And if I wanted to use a family car, it was like, no problem. Take the kids, which was great if you're going for an ice cream cone. But the high school dance was a problem, you know, really not to take them to the dance. Mom.

Beth Shissler:

We didn't mind it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what was it like for you, Beth, to have a twin brother?

Beth Shissler:

Oh, you know, it was great. You know, my friends were always his friends. His friends were always my friends. To a lot of extent, that's still true. You know, I always had a confidant. I think because we were a boy and a girl, you know, there wasn't really any competition. We were just really, really close.

Genevieve Morgan:

Do you feel that there is A something different that you felt with your brother than with your sisters in terms of the nature of the relationship and what you learned.

Beth Shissler:

I think anything different was really just age based. So. Because, you know, my sisters were eight and 10 years older. So growing up, you know, when we were in junior high or high school, they were already off and starting their lives. So, you know, so I think really that degree is really just because of the age differences. But you know, we're all extremely, extremely close now. We've, you know, ironically, we all went off and did our thing out of state and we all came home. I tell every main parent that laments because their parents, their kids are leaving. Don't worry, we all come back. So. And we're all back now and we're all living very, very close to each other.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, tell me about that. So Beth, you're the president of Sea Bags and Linda, you're an author of many best selling books and you each have other ventures also and you're also business partners. So tell me about some of the conflicts that have arisen, if there have been any. I just can only assume there have been. And how have you dealt with them?

Beth Shissler:

Well, we're not really fighters or arguers. I mean, we're both very opinionated. So we both say what's on our mind. But by nature we're not really fighters.

Linda Greenlaw:

Yeah, I think. No, we aren't. I'm totally non confrontational. But I will say that I think one way that we're very successful business partners is that. And these are my sister's words, not mine. We each know what we don't know. My sister has a business head. I do not. I mean, yeah, you do, but. Okay, well, thank you. But not really. Okay. Different styles of communicating. We communicate very well together. Just give you a very small example. Our writing styles are totally different. I'm a writer, you know, I sent something to my sister and she's like, oh my God, I could have said that in three bullets. Now I've just spent like all day writing like 10 pages, like no bullets.

Beth Shissler:

But I'll send her a few bullets and she'll say, is there more?

Linda Greenlaw:

Exactly. So it's a small thing. I think we each shine in our own way and we complement each other very well because. Because we do know two totally different worlds. And I definitely say, like, she's the business head. I. We both have a lot of energy and positive energy. So it just, it works well together.

Genevieve Morgan:

Okay, but Beth, she's a captain. Is she bossy? Tell us secretly. Little Bossy older sister, probably on the

Beth Shissler:

boat, but, you know, boating isn't my real expertise. Although she did put me through docking boot camp this weekend.

Sonya:

Oh, I didn't.

Linda Greenlaw:

That was fun. Yes. So my sister just bought a boat

Beth Shissler:

with her husband, so, yeah, not necessarily bossy. I think that she's really, you know, for the longest time being the captain of a boat, she. It's not. She has everybody's lives in her hand, so she really has to take a positive direction and a strong direction on any decisions that she makes. And I really admire that she can make a decision and not look back on it. And I think that probably comes from that, so. And I don't know. No one's bossier than I am, so I don't know.

Linda Greenlaw:

Except for mom.

Beth Shissler:

Yeah, right. We'll give her that.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

One of the things I'm interested in is you've each done these very successful businesses in and of your own. Right. But you do have this joint venture that you've been working on recently. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Linda Greenlaw:

We're working together on. We formed a company called Linda Greenlaw Enterprises, and it's basically a branding company and licensing and it's a new venture for us. And right now what we have going on is Linda Greenlaw select, in which we're branding fresh sword and tuna with my name. And it's somewhat successful for, you know, where we are. It's a brand new thing and we're moving ahead with it and we're excited about it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I understand that there are people who really want to be involved in this business that you have. Really? People. People who are on your Facebook page looking to come on your boat to

Linda Greenlaw:

help you out with this. Oh, yeah. That's another thing altogether. I'm going to spend the. The summer fishing for bluefin tuna. Right. Right out of Portland here. And the last three years, you know, well, last year, tuna fishing, and the three years prior to that, sword fishing, once my sister finally got me into this. Okay, you really need to have a Facebook page. Most of my fans want to go fishing. That's most of the activity on my site is, can I go fishing with you?

Beth Shissler:

So we decided that this year we're going to make that happen. It was really hard to do when she was sword fishing because it was 30 days out at a time. And you really can't take a relative stranger out 30 days. I mean, there's just too much, too much at risk. So. But tuna fishing, you know, it's three days at a time. So we decided that we are going to have a contest to be Linda's crew member for a week. And then you'll get the answer to the question of is she really bossy? So starting in July, we'll post the contest, be a crew member with Linda for a week, and will let the Facebook fans decide on the, you know, up to the top 10. And then Linda and her crew can. Her real crew can decide on the top 10 to pick one. So. And they'll be coming in September, so it'll be really exciting.

Linda Greenlaw:

It should be really fun, actually, because I am looking forward to seeing some of these video submissions. I think we're going to give them 30 seconds or a minute to do their pitch on, you know, why you should take me fishing. And that is going to be fun. I have a lot of fans in India, Germany. We might be like springing for a big plane.

Beth Shissler:

Italy. Italy.

Genevieve Morgan:

So what are the core values of this new company, Linda Greenlaw Select?

Linda Greenlaw:

The fish itself is fresh, all natural, wild, caught, sustainable. And the company core values, my sister can.

Beth Shissler:

Our company core values are about promoting eating fish, promoting the education of buying, cooking and serving fish, and maintaining our working waterfront.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's interesting to me that both of you have this ability to risk, but also this sort of stable foundation. And both of you seem to have a little bit of an introverted side with the writing and the business mind, but also an extroverted side with going out and Linda, you've been on radio a lot. I think, Beth, you've actually done a lot of this type of interview you before as well. Talk to me about that. Is that a similarity you share that you have these very disparate aspects to your personality.

Linda Greenlaw:

I think we do share it and I think something we share about it is that the introverted side comes quite naturally. And the extroverted side is a learned. Is a learned thing. I mean, I've had to promote my books. I've had to promote my work. My sister's had to do the same thing, fortunately. I mean, I like to think that we both do it very well. But. But it is, it's. It's work. It doesn't come naturally at all.

Beth Shissler:

No, it's hard. And I think that, you know, Linda's still more comfortable with it than I am. I mean, you know, my idea of a great night would be, you know, a close dinner for six. Linda's would be a close dinner for the whole island.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and yet I saw you at Pop the Kenny Bugs the other night, Beth, and you seemed Perfectly comfortable.

Beth Shissler:

Sure. I had a great time. I mean, what's, what's not fun about that night? You get to get a little dressed up and drink a little wine and, you know, and there were a few people that I knew, so that was fun. So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, describe a little bit of the process of sort of teaching yourself to become extroverted or teaching yourself to promote something that you believe in.

Linda Greenlaw:

Well, I think probably my experience is dramatically different from my sister's and probably dramatically different from anyone's. I mean, it went from many, many years of being a captain on a sword fishing boat and having basically five people to talk to on the boat, my crew members and an occasional radio conversation, to becoming a best selling author and being in the public eye through my connection with the Perfect Storm and going on 60 city and 60 day book tour in which there was national media. You know, I went from being like, wow, on this little boat bobbing around the middle of the ocean for many years to oh, wow, I'm going on the Today show. I'm a nervous wreck. I'm sick to my stomach. But knowing that, you know, I've never had a job where I've received a salary or any kind of a wage. It's, I get paid for what I produce, whether it's putting fish on the boat or selling books. So you become very active in getting good at selling and part of that is liking what you do. And although I say it's nervous time for me, even like right now I'm like sweating doing this radio interview, which

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

we can't tell by the way you guys both look perfectly relaxed.

Genevieve Morgan:

Good.

Beth Shissler:

I'm good.

Linda Greenlaw:

Thank God it's not tv.

Beth Shissler:

Touch my hands.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, but, but so you are, you still get nervous? You still consider it?

Linda Greenlaw:

I get nervous. I do public speaking. I'm still very nervous about that. And I've done, I've done a lot of it. But I know that I'm good at it. I think the nerves are part of it.

Genevieve Morgan:

And both of you, I know in your business ventures have a sustainability consciousness in what you do. Sea bags and fishing ventures have to deal with the ocean and the health and the safety of the ocean. And Lisa and I both being healthcare professionals, you know, we, we want people to eat fish. Obviously the seas are getting overfished. We want them to eat healthy fish. The seas are getting polluted. Do you guys have any insight on that or where do you stand on all of the turmoil around fishing and the use of the ocean?

Linda Greenlaw:

You know, I think the general public is a Little bit out of the loop in what's going on. For instance, you just said, you know, the oceans are being overfished. You know what? Fishermen in this country, whether it's commercial or recreational, are the most highly monitored, managed, patrolled group of fishermen on the planet, bar none. The future of the fish is very rosy. They're very protected. And as far as the health thing goes, I think there are groups in this country who are doing the general public a huge disservice by saying, don't eat this, don't eat that. If it's available to you. It's been through a lot of scrutiny. Eat it, feel good about it. You know, we're fatter than we've ever been as a country. You know, national obesity crisis. You need to eat fish. It's good for you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, just briefly talk to us about the future of fishermen. I mean, living in Maine, we know that there are problems with being perhaps maybe over regulated.

Linda Greenlaw:

Over regulated. And there are other factors. And my sister can speak to this probably more appropriately than I can. What about the loss of the working waterfront?

Beth Shissler:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is tough to make a living in Maine on the working waterfront and fishing. So. And what I love about doing, you know, Linda Greenlaw, select fish is that it really, really encourages people to eat fish. One of the most rewarding things, you know, that we see is when a mother will write in on Facebook because she's not generally looking for a job, and say, I got my son to try swordfish today because he saw you on TV and he likes it.

Linda Greenlaw:

Thank you.

Beth Shissler:

You know, and that's the best thing that we can do, is promote people to eat fish. And I'm on the.

Genevieve Morgan:

Can you just say that swordfish is a fish that many, many children really like because of the texture.

Beth Shissler:

You hope so, right? You know so. And you. But you hope that kids like any fish, you know, or any kind of shellfish even, and just getting them to try it. And if. If it takes, you know, seeing Glinda on TV to get them to take that bite of something, you know, then that's okay. It's a really, really exciting thing for me to get people to understand how to buy fish. On the opposite end of the spectrum, for me, going into a fish store is absolutely intimidating, even though, you know, I've got the best one right next door. And so I go in and I talk to them and say, what should I have today? You know, what do you recommend? But I think that that's part of our mission that we're doing is teaching people how to buy fish, how to cook fish, and how to, you know, educate them on the benefits of fish. Because it is, it's a local resource that is sustainable here in our state. And you know, we need to continue to support it from a financial front, from a job front, but also from a health source front. So to me, that's the most exciting part of, you know, taking Linda. Linda's just knowledge that's second hand to her and sharing that knowledge. So that's kind of fun for me.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and Beth, I also know that you're involved with the Maine College of Art, and I know that you're on the Make a Wish foundation board. So there are other things that you're doing that are very sustainable. I suspect Linda is similar. Why? Why with all the things that you do, why are you choosing to also do those things and why, why those specific organizations?

Beth Shissler:

Well, you know, make a Wish is probably the thing I do in my life that just feels the best. You know, it's to grant a wish for children with a life threatening disease. And any child deserves that. And you know, it's, it's very. The cost of doing that financially is so low based on the reward for the child and for the people that are involved in doing it. So I'm a huge believer in that organization and I've gratefully drag Linda in because she's been willing to be dragged in.

Linda Greenlaw:

So yeah, you didn't have to drag very hard. Yeah, we both really believe in the organization and my sister's on the board and I'm always very happy to go to the auction and bid my head off because that's fun. And I usually donate something to the auction also, so it's great.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, we appreciate your coming in and talking to us about Linda Greenlaw select and the books that you're doing, Linda, and all of the things that you're doing. Sea bags. Beth. I mean, I think what I'm finding from this conversation is that there's some synergism that can take place when you have two sisters who have lots of shared DNA, but also a willingness to really have a good relationship. So we appreciate your coming on and talking to us today about your sisterhood and all the work that you're doing together.

Linda Greenlaw:

Thank you for having us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

As part of this week's Sisters show for the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast, we are fortunate to have the sisters, Sonya and Jessica Tomlinson. Jessica Tomlinson is the Director of Artists at Work at Maine College of Art. She's the Board President of Space Gallery. A graduate of Hampshire College, she lives in the West End of Portland with her husband, the artist Henry and and Jessica, I'm going to have to have you jump in here.

Jessica Tomlinson:

Absolutely.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Wolinek, Henry Wolinek and their nine year old son Otto. Thank you for coming in Jessica.

Jessica Tomlinson:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And I'm going to talk about your sister here who is a hip hop recording artist and Grant's an Outreach Manager at the Maine Women's Fund, a Telling Room teaching artist and a nine year veteran of Space Gallery. So thanks for coming in.

Sonya:

Thank you.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So Sisters, you've been, I think Sonya, from what I understand, you were persuaded to move back to Portland or to Portland by Jessica.

Sonya:

It's true. It's true. I was going, I moved to North Carolina, I was going to UNC Greensboro and I was in my senior year and I got a package in the mail and it had a green paint stick and an offer to move here and it said this is the color of your new room if you'll come back and live with us for free. And so I think I graduated on May 28 and I moved June 1 to everything in a U Haul and camped out with Jess and Henry for a little longer than planned for what was to be six months. I think it turned out to be nine. And I've never left, and it's 13 years later, and I've never lived anywhere more than three years in my life. So four years. So, yeah, I was persuaded.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So that's a pretty strong sister pull. You must have a good relationship.

Sonya:

We do.

Jessica Tomlinson:

Well, Sonya also lived with me when she graduated from high school, so there's a little bit of a history of that, actually. Sonya's great company, and so she's not only a great sister, she's just a great human. And I think that that's pretty evidenced by her making Portland home. Portland used to be my city until Sonya moved here. And so now it's very funny. I hear, oh, you're Sonya's sister? I say, no, Sonya is my sister. There's a big difference. I was here first.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And Jessica, are you the middle child? You have an older sister as well?

Jessica Tomlinson:

We do. We have an older sister. So I'm the middle, and Sonya's the youngest.

Sonya:

Yeah. Please shout out to Andrea. She's in New Hampshire, not far away.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And what's the age difference? What's the age spread?

Sonya:

I just figured this out the other day. Jess is exactly four years older than I am, and then Andrea is seven years older than I am. So then there's about almost three years between them.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

What I like is that each of you is in the arts field, but each of you does something pretty different. Talk to me about why you made the choices you did in your career paths, and was it influenced by what your other sisters were doing?

Jessica Tomlinson:

Well, I can start with that. I mean, I was really influenced in this interesting way by Portland. And when I came to Portland, it was a total accident that the first thing I did was open an art gallery. And so I was looking for an apartment and instead found a great space that turned into the Dead Space Gallery with Tanya Hollander. So that's how I got to Portland, is by starting a gallery. And it's quite amazing for me that that was my introduction to the city. And everyone was so warm and so welcoming. And so Tanya and I did that for several years. And so for me, it's very much about the visual arts. And so Sonya is on the other side, which is the performing arts. And then there are definitely some areas where we cross over, but I think it's a really good line of visual and performing.

Sonya:

Yeah. And I think the irony is, you know, I've been at Space for nine years. I started. Started off performing there. I had my CD release party there. And then I became on their event staff. And here we are nine years later, and my sister's the board president. And it's just. It's ironic and it's really telling of who we are as people. You know, Jess is in the professional role, and I'm, you know, house managing or performing or getting hip hop artists in or, you know, slinging drinks or working the door. And it's. And it's funny that that is where our worlds eventually collided. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So do you use some of these middle child and youngest child kind of traits to do the jobs that you do?

Jessica Tomlinson:

I mean, that's a good question. I'm a connector. I really see my job as being. I think of myself as an arts ombudsman in a way, is that people bring issues to me and then I try and then solve them in a way that's really. I think about it as creative problem solving. And so that's what I do in the arts world, both at Maine College of Art and at Space Gallery. And just the work that I do as an arts advocate in this city, really interested in how can we move the needle on the arts and raise the bar and have a different kind of conversation and create change. That's what I'm really interested in doing. I think Portland's at this really interesting moment. When I came here almost 20 years ago, it was a very different city. This is the city I wanted 20 years ago. And so I'm thrilled. And in a way, what's really interesting is, you know, I've always wanted to, you know, make things better. Right. So that Sonya has a better city, so that my son has a better city. So I'm really interested in that. And so I think that those skills that you have in your birth order, mine for the middle child, definitely play into that.

Sonya:

And I agree, like I said, as the youngest, I think you often feel like you have this safety net you're taking care of. There's people looking out for you. And I think Jess has done nothing but push me further on that limb. Since I moved to Portland, I funded my first album through a grant from the Main arts Commission completely. And then I've branched out. Genevieve knows doing teaching artist gigs at the Telling Room. And I think Jess has pushed me to take risks and really explore what I'm feeling. And because that is her role, to sort of be that stable anchor in life, I felt good about knowing that she knew what she was talking about that she'd done the legwork for me and that, you know, these were going to be successful avenues for me to take risks in the arts world. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's also interesting that you work with the Maine Women's Fund.

Sonya:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So there's the sister aspect of things and the female aspect of things. And Genevieve and I were talking about this earlier. And you work for the Maine Women's Fund.

Sonya:

I do.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Do you translate some of the sisterhood love into the type of work that you do?

Sonya:

I think in ways. And, you know, it's ironic, my relationship with the Maine Women's Fund, again, Jessica was a new girl in their New Girls program and encouraged me to apply for a new Girls Network for Social Change fund. And I did. And then I did hip hop workshops in Long Creek Development center with a girl unit. I did this hip hop workshop there and then did the same at Preble Street Teen Center.

Jessica Tomlinson:

And actually, I nominated you first. That was what was first. I was really proud of the work that you were doing as a female in this very male dominated hip hop world.

Sonya:

That's right.

Beth Shissler:

It's not rap.

Jessica Tomlinson:

I've learned that. So Sonya was doing some really interesting work, talking about, you know, really social issues, gender equity in the hip hop field. And so I nominated Sonya for a Maine Women's Fund award. That was where that started.

Sonya:

I was an awardee first.

Jessica Tomlinson:

You were an awardee, So I was very proud. Nominated you. You won. So that was the first introduction.

Sonya:

That's right. And then I became a grantee and now an employee. And so. So definitely there's some crossover there.

Genevieve Morgan:

so do you ever fight? It all seems very rosy.

Sonya:

We really don't.

Genevieve Morgan:

What about when you were younger?

Jessica Tomlinson:

That's a different story. But now, no, I mean, I think what's really lovely is that, you know, I don't think we've said this, but Sonja and I actually live in the same house. So the way that it works is I have a two story home that I own, and so my family lives upstairs and Sonya and her husband live downstairs. So. And I think the biggest joke about that is I never see her. And so when we want to see each other, we have to go to work. Sometimes we walk to work and then we go to lunch. I mean, it's ridiculous. But we're both very, very busy. And so my rosy fantasy about what it would be to live in the same house just haven't kind of worked out in that way. Our schedules are too busy.

Sonya:

I think I see more of your son than you because I babysit so you can go out, but we really don't fight. It's pretty crazy.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Or you didn't fight until you said that thing about seeing more of her son.

Sonya:

Historically, Jess has always been really even keeled. I think the three of us thought some, but we really have never been that way.

Jessica Tomlinson:

And I think Sonya's just very good for me. She's just very calm and has a very different perspective than I do. And I think it's really interesting because it's an exchange of learning. In the same way that you think I'm paving the way, Sonya can show me a different way of being, you know, about being a little calmer, a little mellower, just a different, more, I don't know, more laid back approach. I'm a little high strung. And so I do learn from Sonya. A different way of being in the world.

Sonya:

Yeah. And I would say actually in the last five years, it's been this interesting turn of being the little sister and always being thought of as the little one and needing to be nurtured. And now it is great to see this. This turn and we're really friends. And I think what you're saying, both being out there in the world and trying to do things in Portland, there's this appreciation for what each other can get done. And I think that I'm feeling more like an adult in our relationship in the last five years, which has been great. And we do definitely balance each other out. I always say to her, I would be friends with you if we weren't sisters. And it's so true and cliche, but.

Genevieve Morgan:

Well, and one of the things Lisa and I were thinking about when it comes to this show is the idea of competition versus collaboration. And it's something, Jessica, that you and I have worked as my representation of the Telling Room, and you at Space Space and the Telling Room have had kind of a sisterly, brotherly relationship.

Jessica Tomlinson:

Exactly.

Genevieve Morgan:

I love this idea that you can. That collaboration actually breeds success more than competition. And I think that Lisa and I talk a lot about that, that it's not either or, it's both. Yeah.

Sonya:

And that's funny because I think our dream we've talked about, we've never. I mean, space is as close as we've gotten. To working together. And I think that there is this idea that we love. You know, I'm at the Maine Women's Fund doing this good work for women and girls in Maine. And my sister's doing this great work being an arts cheerleader. And we have this dream of how could we work together at the same job, and what would that look like, and would this relationship stay the same? But, yeah, we hope to fully collaborate at some point.

Jessica Tomlinson:

I think we bring very different things to the table. And it's a really. It's amazing because I honestly now, thinking about it, it's like, do we fight? And is there competition? No. I can't think of the last time I yelled at you, like, maybe in high school.

Sonya:

Yeah. Yeah.

Linda Greenlaw:

I think.

Sonya:

I think I borrowed your clothes without asking. Really? I think that it would be.

Jessica Tomlinson:

It.

Sonya:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And it would be a little harder to do that now. She's a little bit taller.

Sonya:

You know, that's funny you say that, Lisa, because I was thinking about the fact that to see people's expressions when they finally see us in the same room and figure it out that both of our last names are Tomlinson. The only thing we really have in common is our voice. So I think that's. People will say that they'll look at us, and I think, I'm 5:2, and you're 5:11. And people will say, I know I never would have pinned you for sisters, but now that I'm hearing you talk. So out there in the radio land, you see a commonality. Most don't.

Linda Greenlaw:

Twins.

Jessica Tomlinson:

We're twins on the radio.

Sonya:

Yeah.

Genevieve Morgan:

I'm struck by the idea that you have created a home for your little sister, and that's very special. How did that kind of bond come about? Was there something in your birth family that created a stronger sense of siblinghood?

Jessica Tomlinson:

I would definitely say. I mean, our parents are divorced, and I'd say that always does changed your family dynamics. And so the way that it worked when I was. Yeah, I was 10 and you were seven. Six.

Sonya:

Yeah, six.

Jessica Tomlinson:

Really? When they got divorced. And so then we would go and fly to see my dad once a month. And so I would be the unaccompanied minor with Sonya flying. So once a month, we would fly. My dad moved around a lot in the country, so we would fly once a month. And so we logged some serious miles together on airplanes. And it's an intense bonding experience, I would say, is that, you know, so the two of us would do these trips once a month. I mean, literally, the people, the stewardesses and the, you know, Chicago knew us by name. It was like we had our own little flight pins. We were veterans of airline travel. And so that really did, I think, cement. And so I did feel responsible, very much so, to be traveling across the country with Sonya and being responsible for her, obviously her physical well being, but also emotional well being. I think that definitely created a pattern for life, which I'm grateful for. But as Sonya said, I think it's interesting it might have stemmed from this divorce creating this kind of intense bond. But in terms of responsibility now I do feel like as we're getting older, it's more of a shared mutual responsibility.

Sonya:

Yeah. I looked up, you know, and saw these two incredible sisters, this mom who was managing it. And as I get older, I have a much greater respect for the fact that she was a single mom of three children. And then also our grandmother, my mom's mom was this incredible figure in all of our lives. And she and her, my grandfather got divorced early. So I just saw this lineage of incredibly strong female role models, you know, pretty four or five deep. And so I think that bonded us too. Oh, God. And I work at the Maine Women's Club. Oh, wow, ladies. Yeah, I think that, that, that was huge. And obviously when something happens in your family dynamic and something falls apart, you really work that much stronger to keep what's left together. And everybody did. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I'm sure that the Maine Women's Fund is going to be very happy to have you bring in that strong matrilineal aspect of things. So I think that's a good thing to end on. But we've really appreciated your spending time with us today and talking about what it's like to be sisters working in your respective fields. We've been talking to Jessica Tomlinson, the director of Artists at Work at Maine College of Art and Board president of Space Gallery and also hip hop recording artist and grant set outreach manager at the Maine Women's Fund, Sonja Tomlinson. So thank you so much for coming in today.

Jessica Tomlinson:

Thanks to both of you.

Sonya:

Thank you for making the Connection.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. For more information on our guest, Beth Schisler, president of Seabags, Linda Greenlaw, best selling author and the Tomlinson sisters, Sonja and Jessica, please visit the Dr. Lisa website. Dr. Lisa.org also take the time to go visit our blog on bountifulpath.com, like our Facebook page under Dr. Lisa or send us an email and let us know what you're thinking about the shows that we've been putting on this year. It's been our pleasure to spend time with you today, and we hope that you decide to do so again in the future. Thank you for being part of our world. May you have a bountiful life.

Beth Shissler:

Sam.