Transformation of Self #260

Cid Bullens:

60 years I had never had on not in therapy. I've been to therapy, marriage, you know, kids, you know, music and why am I not successful, you know, all the stuff we all go through or some of us do and go to therapy for, you know, relationships, you know, whatever. Never had I addressed my gender.

Krista Haapala:

I couldn't imagine the change in my life mindset because having that threat removed, that really is ultimately I couldn't ask for more. So going through the pain, you know, I look back on it now and yeah, there's a lot there, but you move through it for a reason and I wouldn't change a thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine radio show number 260, Transformation of Self, airing for the first time on Sunday, September 11, 2016. Our bodies are the physical vessels that contain ourselves. What happens when these vessels do not reflect the people we understand ourselves to be? Today we speak with singer, songwriter Cid Bullens and author and counselor Krista Happolo about the transformations physical, mental and emotional that each has chosen to undergo. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's truly a pleasure to have with me in the studio an individual who I had the opportunity to interview maybe a couple years ago. Now, this is Cidny Bullens, a two time Grammy nominee who has gone from singing backup with Elton John to singing lead vocals on the Grease movie soundtrack to having eight critically acclaimed solo albums. In 2011, Cindy became s making the daunting decision to transition from female to male. Sid has written and created somewhere between not an Ordinary Life and is now performing it around the country to rave reviews. Thanks so much for coming back.

Cid Bullens:

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I had the opportunity to hear you perform one of the songs from your presentation and it really was very moving. I mean, this is all such a raw process that you have undergone through the years, and your willingness to share it is nothing short of spectacular, really. You're putting a lot out there.

Cid Bullens:

It's, as the bio said, the word is daunting. Not just my transition, but this creative process to come into or to get to the place where I decided I needed to write this show. It's interesting because years ago, I mean, before there was even a flicker of intention or knowledge or even the idea that I would ever transition because I felt I was too old and, you know, it was kind of a past thing and okay, I'm living with it and, you know, it just is what it is and blah, blah, blah. But so I had thought about writing a show because I had lost a daughter, Jessie, and because I had this really kind of incredible fast career when I was young and very exciting and everything. And I had had this family life and because of my gender issues and so on so forth, but I didn't, I couldn't. I didn't know what the end was. I didn't. There was. The arc couldn't complete. I just couldn't quite get to the end. And once I made the decision to transition, which sounds like I went, oh, yeah, that's it, I'm gonna do it. And in the, even in the show, it's kind of portrayed that way. In actuality, it took me. Even though the idea came quickly or it wasn't the idea, it was the kind of the explosion or the, you know, just kind of. It was like A hammer on my head. And I went, oh, you know, this is happening. This is going to happen. But it still took me time to kind of move into it and say, am I really doing this? Am I really doing this? But once I knew that that was going to happen, that this was going to happen, I was going to become Sydney. I knew I had the arc of the story. I knew that I had to. In my mind, I had no choice but to write my story. And, I mean, there's not many people in the world who've sung with Elton John, lost a child, and changed from a woman to a man in one life. I mean, that's really cutting it down to the nitty gritty. But it's not an ordinary life. And I just had to write it. And it was daunting, and it was, and it still is. I mean, now I have to get up there. Not have to. I choose to get up there and perform it. I want to perform it. I performed it 14 times now since February, and with more to come. And it continues to reveal itself to me even though I wrote every word. My director is Tanya Taylor Rubenstein from Santa Fe, who's this fantastic solo coach, solo story coach. And she's directed it, and she helped me shape it, I wrote it, but she, you know, she got it out of me basically in. In the way that it needed to be. And we continue to work together, but each time I do it now, it's like they say in aa, more will be revealed. And it's kind of like when I. I'm a songwriter and sometimes I'll write a song and I don't even know exactly what it means until later. And I go, oh, you know, that means more than I thought it meant, you know, or. Or become, you know, it becomes a deeper. Has deeper meaning than it. Than I intended originally. So it's been a fantastic process for me at this time in my life and makes me want to cry just thinking about it. And I don't cry a lot. Testosterone does not allow you to cry as much as I used to. Thank you, God. But it is. It's been an incredible experience to do the show, and the response has been humbling. So I know I'm continuing to talk on, so feel free to ask a question. Well,

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm wondering if there's an interesting timeliness to your decision. I mean, you made this. Obviously you made the decision to transition on your own, of your own personal timeline. But what's fascinating is that somehow our society has become more open about that. Choice in the last, I would say five years, not too distant past. But before that, it was really not something that people did no much of at all.

Cid Bullens:

When you see the show, there's a part, or hopefully you'll see the show, there's a flashback. The show begins with my early career, but there's a flashback in the first, let's say third of the show to my youth. And there are three moments which. In which my gender recognition is. There are three powerful moments. One is at 4 years old, one is at 12 years old, and one is at 19 years old. And at 19, I was in New York City working for the summer, and I went to the New York Public Library. This is explained in the show to find a book, some kind of something to find out about me. And I found a book on gender and it said something about people who are living in the wrong bodies. And I sent away to Tulane University where the study was done to find out how I could transition. I got the material, I got really excited. Here I am alone in a hotel room working for the summer in New York City, And it was 1971. I said, there's no way I can do this. I can't do this. I have no money, I have no support. So just to say that. That I had thought about transitioning throughout my life, but there was. But then I got married and had kids and you know all this stuff and tried it, which is part of the show also, trying to fit in as a wife and a mother and you know, all this stuff. But when. And this is explained in the show also, it was really a friend of mine who had moved away who called me one day and said, I've. Who I thought was a lesbian. And we never talked about anything. And she called me and said, call me back. I called back, found out that she had transitioned into a man. And it blew my mind. I mean, I literally. My mind exploded when she told me this, he told me this. And that was the point at which I. And I literally fell to my knees after I got off the phone with him and sobbed. Absolutely went down on my knees. Sobbed. It was. And I say in the show, you know, heaving up every moment of questioning. And I go into, you know, these images of what I hadn't not endured. That's a. That's a bad word. But what I had experienced with myself, for example, every time I walk into a public restroom in my whole life, I would look at ladies, women, and I. There would be this little. This little thing in my head that would just Be a disconnect. Just, you know, you don't even think about it anymore. You just. It's just something you do. You look in and you look at it and you go, oh, okay. And. But my friend telling me his. That he transitioned, it was too close. It was like, here's a person who I actually knew and was really, really, really friendly with who had moved away two years before and told me that he had done this thing. And there are certain times in your life where you. I'm going to use the word psychic or the term psychic space, I believe the time that he told me that I had the psychic space to think about me and my primary issue that I'd never dealt with head on before. In 60 years. I had never head on. Not in therapy. I'd been to therapy. Marriage and, you know, kids and, you know, music and why am I not successful? You know, all the stuff we all go through or some of us do and go to therapy for, you know, relationships, you know, whatever. Never had I addressed my gender. And here it was in my face. And I'd been single for eight years. This is five years ago. I'd been single for eight years. My daughter was married and had children, so she was. I was no longer directly responsible for her life. I had no. Nobody that was demanding anything of me directly. Oh. The other very important point about being psychically a little more free was that it had been at that time, 15 years since Jesse's death. So I wasn't in the abject grief. It took me about 10 years to get through the. You know, it sounds like a long time, but for grieving parents, they know what I mean. To start living for myself and not just in memory of Jesse and not just with that darkness, that hole that I still have, the hole, of course, but I started to free up a little bit. So here I was with nobody to answer to. And this revelation that my friend presented me with. And from that moment where I hung up the phone, I knew that my life had exploded one more time. And then I started the process of first kind of going, oh, my God, I can do this. You know, can I do this? Yes. Instead of in 1971 saying, Can I do that? I can do this, I can do this. No, I can't do this now. I was like, I can do this. Yes, I can. I'm old. Who gives a damn, you know, darn. Whatever, Whatever the radio will allow me to say, who. Who gives anything? You know, I. I can do this. I don't care anymore what people Think. I mean, obviously, we all care about people think, but it. The interesting thing is to. To. To get to now, go to now, is that I am so much more myself than I've ever been. I am myself for the first time in my life. And, yes, when I started to do the transition, exactly five years ago, September 1, 2011, was my first shot of testosterone, and. It was just beginning to kind of crack the psyche of the public's psyche, I guess, just starting with Chaz Bono and a couple of other people who were starting. But it hadn't gotten to the point, obviously, where it is today. But it was just starting to crack through the public mind, and. It was not easy, and it was scary as heck. And I had several points of wanting to turn back and saying, what the heck have I done? And all that stuff. But ultimately, now, first of all, the show wouldn't be in existence. I feel like I'm being of service in another way. I was in service to bereaved parents for 15 years with my music, and now I feel like I'm being of service again in the trans community or even just as a human being who just happens to be a transgender person, which is really the point of my show. So.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

How do people respond? And have you noticed any difference between people who have seen your show at St. Lawrence Arts or who have seen your show in other parts of the

Cid Bullens:

country, what the response to the show is in terms of being transgender or just in general?

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, pick either one.

Cid Bullens:

Well, as I said before, I've been humbled by the responses because my life touches so many aspects of humanity. If I can say it like that, it sounds kind of pompous or something, but it's true. I mean, I've. I'm a bereaved parent. I had two children. I bore two babies. I lost a child. And so I go through that. That's the heart of the story. Once I get to the transgender aspect of my life, they've already gone through the fact that I've. And I go through it, believe me. You know, the fact that I've bore two babies physically and lost one. And I think. If you don't know anything about being transgender,

[Unidentified voice]:

you.

Cid Bullens:

You learn, not because I tell you what it is, but because I share my own experience. What people have told me is that they. They get it in a way that they haven't before. I mean, obviously, it's just like losing a child. Nobody can understand what it's like to lose a child unless you've lost a child. You don't Understand what it's like to be transgender. Unless you're transgender or African American or all the. All the things that we uniquely are all human beings. But what has pleased me, what has made me feel good, is. People have look at it now in a different light. They realize that it is that being transgender is a human condition and that I am a human being who happens to have been born a woman. But I've always had a male brain. You know, I just. I've never, ever, even when I was nine months pregnant both times, have ever identified as being a woman. I don't understand women. I don't get it. I. I could never. I. Hanging out with Westport housewives, to me, and not to. Not to generalize, but going to part. You know, when I was younger and we were invited to places and the women did this and the men did that, which is not so much the way it is today, but 30 years ago, I just didn't get it. And I know I'm generalizing and people probably get lots of flack for that, but I was always on the outside looking in, whether it was the men that I felt like I should be hanging out with. And by the way, most of my best friends were male, and a lot. I had female best friends, too. But anyway, I feel like people can understand, through my show, get a better understanding. Of being transgender, because you are listening to and experiencing. And by the way, it's a multimedia show, so you see me and my experiences on screen as I'm describing them, not to mention the music. The eight live songs are all songs that. They're old songs. There's no new songs in it that weave into the story, that relate to the story as it happens. So you're getting the visual, the audio, and. And my talking, the story, part storytelling, a whole life that goes through a lot of aspects of being human. It really is about being human, and that's what I hope people get from it. But I had. I'll tell you a couple things. I did the. My premiere out in Santa Fe on February 26, and we did it as a benefit for Southwest Cares, which is a very big organization in Santa Fe and in New Mexico that helps LGBTQ community medically, and they have a facility and everything, and we did it as a benefit for them. And the president of the organization, who is not gay or trans, came up to me after the show and introduced himself, and he said, I've been working with the LGBT community for 30 years, he said, and I have never understood being transgender until now. And that was huge to me. That was the first night. And there have been other similar comments. And, you know, I'm not doing this show for any purpose, really. I mean, I'm not. Except I needed to write it. I liken it to my album, Somewhere Between Heaven and Earth, which I wrote in the first two years after my daughter Jesse's death. Jesse died at 11 years old from complications from cancer in 1996. And the next two years, I wrote and recorded 10 songs. And it was an album somewhere between heaven and earth. And then just by fate or chance or however divine intervention, whatever you want to call it, I ended up working with and doing concerts for and bereaved parents and palliative care and hospice and workshops on death and dying at colleges and universities for the next 15 years. So that album became something that I had no idea it was going to become. It also became a commercial success, which was totally beyond anything. I didn't even want it to be that because it was about my daughter, but it did. I feel the same way about this show. I feel like I had to write the show. I was compelled to write the show. What it does, where it goes, who it affects, who sees it, is not up to me. It is out there. I'm going to show up and do it where people ask me to do it or where I can do it, I want to do it. This is my future for the next few years at least. I do think it's part of my being of service, and that's just personal to me. Somebody else might not think that at all, but for me, it's part of why I'm here and what I'm supposed to be doing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

On our show notes page, we will provide a link for people to find out more about the show that you were doing. Somewhere between not an Ordinary Life. You'll be performing your show again on September 23rd and 24th at St. Lawrence Arts right here in Portland and 25th and 25th. I'm sure you had to add that extra show because it's going to be sold out again.

Cid Bullens:

Yeah, I'm certain of that. That's what they think.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It will. I encourage people to listen to your show and I thank you for being here. As a special sneak preview, you're gonna play a song for us. Tell us about this song.

Cid Bullens:

This song is one that you may have heard at when we saw you last. It's in the show. It's kind of, you know, it's an old song, but it was a song that not many people knew about. It's on my Neverland album, which came out in 2001, but it was the first song I wrote after the 10 songs from somewhere Between Heaven and Earth. And it's a window. I'm not going to even tell you I'm going to play it, but it's called Gravity and Grace and it's kind of become the it's emerged from the show as kind of the hit of the show.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Thank you.

[Unidentified voice]:

Gravity and Grace there too close friends my but it's hard to get him in the same room at the very same time Gravity's so grumpy he brings everybody down My friend Grace on the other hand she's the sweetest girl in town. Gravity I battle with and he always makes me cry I can't seem to win a fight no matter how I try Grace looks through the window

Cid Bullens:

Waiting

[Unidentified voice]:

for a sign When I've had enough of Gravity she will find her way inside. But I have my suspicions that I've been Harper for a while when they pass each other in my life I swear I see them smile Yes, I have my suspicions that they're not so far apart maybe they have some secret covenant Matters of the heart. Grace I don't see often so I'm grateful for time she has a way of soothing me it makes me feel just fine But a funny thing always happens I forget her when she's gone and I let gravity hang out with me and he stays for way too long. And I have my suspicions that I've harbored for a while when they pass each other in my life I swear I see them smiling if I have but they're not so far apart maybe they have some secret covenant Matters of the heart I think they have some secret covenant in matters of the heart.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

to get a book that's written by a local author to really read and savor and enjoy. And a book that I read recently called Body 2.0, which is being release this fall. It really hit home for me today I'm speaking with the Author of BODI 2.0. This is Krista Hammerbacher Hoppela, who is not only the Author of Body 2.0, but also unlearn Mind Food for Heretics. In addition to writing. Since founding her relationship coaching practice in 2005, Christa has worked with humans of every stripe in creating food fiercely fulfilling lives. Krista savors Maine life by mountain biking, sailing and trail running. She also loves helping people get fit and has fun owning CrossFit beacon with her husband Brian. Together they live a few steps from the woods with two teenage sons. It's really great to have you in today. Thanks Lisa. It was so fun to meet you recently and have you hand me these two books because they there's some heft to them. Not just like heft, physical heft, but some like emotional, psychological. You can tell you put a lot of yourself into these books. So congratulations.

Krista Haapala:

Thank you. Thanks. And what a beautiful compliment.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and you're quite a wonderful writer. Thank you. Thank you. As I was reading through this, I'm like, wow, this woman, how does she do it all? She is a poetess. She is a crossfitter. She is a mother. I mean, you are so talented in all your various iterations of self, which for you has been interesting because your self has undergone a very major physical iteration in the last few years. And that's what you wrote about in body 2.0. Tell me about that.

Krista Haapala:

Well, again, thank you for the compliment. What a beautiful thing to hear. Well, BODI 2.0 came about because I lost my mom to breast cancer in May 2013 and so many family members before her had had breast cancer. And a few survived, but most did not. And so I lived with that legacy of all of those women passing away from breast cancer. And when my mom became a ill it was an experience where we had hope, but because of the way things had happened for other women in our family, it was tough to hold on to. And she went through treatment ranging from a lumpectomy to radiation to chemotherapy to then having bilateral, bilateral mastectomy. And unfortunately, by the time she had that treatment, the cancer had spread. And so she went through about four years of treatment. And it was during that time that my husband Brian and I essentially had the conversation already to say, this looks highly likely that I'm in the crosshairs. And so doing something preventatively just made a whole lot of sense. And of course, we just let that ride, you know, move through the process of experiencing mom's loss. And it was literally a week after I returned home from the Midwest and I called my doctor and started the process to have a preventive double mastectomy and ultimately autologous tissue reconstruction.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And that's a big deal because you've gone from, at least in theory, having nothing, quote in quotes, nothing currently wrong with this tissue in your body, to deciding, I'm going to remove this because at some point in the future, something could and probably will, given your family history, happen. That's a huge decision.

Krista Haapala:

It was a huge decision. Yet at the same time, given the circumstances, circumstances, it felt like I kept describing it as a no brainer. It just one thing mom had said to me early on was early on when I saw her the last time that she, she felt like she had been waiting for her cancer. And I thought, gosh, that's, that's something I don't have to do. I don't have to do that. I have a choice here. And another thing that she, she said as we were together is really be there for your boys. And what I heard in that was, don't let your boys be sitting where you are right now, where she had been sitting once before with her mother and so on. And so it became a very, almost just the most logical next step that I could take. And of course, you know, with that tidal wave of emotion that comes with loss, it just made complete sense to make that phone call. And I was extraordinarily adamant when I first spoke with my OB gyn, who's fantastic, who was there at the start of the process. And then I went on to get connected with so many other amazing medical professionals that really solidified my decision and didn't question, well, that's not true. There was a little questioning, but it's a big decision and I understand that that's their job. But Because I was steadfast in the decision and I just knew it was right for me and I had the support of my partner and my family. That there was just. That was the next step to have happen. And when we committed to that path, it really defined everything else that was going on around us in life at the time. And it was really about a two year odyssey. Really.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

All told, it was also painful. This isn't something that you go into and it's done and now you're on to the next thing. I mean, this was months in the preparation, and then really the surgery was. It was hours and hours long, and then it was months in the recovery. Right. So this is something that you, both, you and Brian had to commit to pretty fully. Mm.

Krista Haapala:

We did. And the beauty of it is, is we had people around us. I was, I was very vocal about what was happening to me because of our lifestyle, because we do play hard and surround ourselves with people who move at our pace. And, you know, we. We are very physical. We do CrossFit, we have two beautiful boys. We really soak up life. And that pace was going to change for a while. And so it just made sense to me, especially around the gym, to just start to say, hey, this is what's happening. And we dubbed it body 2.0 because it really felt like a reinvention. And it ended up moving through the process. The first surgery was a little over 13 hours, close to 14 hours. And then another subsequent surgery after that was over two hours. And then there was another surgery after that. And that's pretty typical for my process that I went through, which was a reconstruction from the tissue on my body. That's not everyone's path. That's not. I don't recommend that being everyone's chosen path. Everyone. Every woman's gonna make her own choices. And gosh, if there's anything I'm passionate about, that's. That's one of them. But ultimately, that path worked for me. And the reinvention was truly not just a change in body that took some finesse, but it was. It was really getting out from under that, that, you know, I describe it as the kind of the anvil, you know, that's hanging over the cartoon head. It's gone. And I couldn't imagine the change in my life mindset, because having that threat removed, that really is ultimately, I couldn't ask for more. So going through the pain, you know, I look back on it now and, and yeah, there's a lot there, but you move through it for a Reason, and I wouldn't change a thing.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I know that you and I connected in part because having had a mastectomy myself, a bilateral mastectomy for early stage cancer, there's a kindred spirit in that. And I have had people call into question my decision. And in some case because I'm in no small part because I'm a doctor, they said, why would you choose to do something that is so dramatic? What kind of a role model are you? I had someone say, well, obviously you were living in fear. I don't like to live my life as if I'm living in fear. So I don't know if you can be the kind of doctor that can work well with me. And I was.

[Unidentified voice]:

So

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I try to be really respectful of other people's choices. And it was interesting that I needed to be held to a higher standard for my choices, because, like you, I was never saying this is what I would suggest that anybody do. It's really more, this is the body that I have. This is my set of circumstances. And as my cancer surgeon said, I needed to be able to sleep at night. It sounds like you and I kind of made these choices for that. For that reason. Did you ever find yourself judged by others for making this decision? I did. I did.

Krista Haapala:

And the thing that I would. You know, this is very frank. The thing that disappointed me the most about the judgment is it came from other women. And, you know, I'm always a big fan of. People have heard me say it over and over. Own your power and, you know, hold up your sisters. Like, let's hold each other up and show the world how we deserve to be treated. And I realized that their questioning was a reflection of their fear. They were projecting their fear onto me. What if it were me, a person who had to make that decision? What would I do? What would I do if I were in the position of having lost my mother? What would I do? And I realized early on that that's what was manifesting in these questions. And there was a part of me that had to really take an aggressive reframe and say, yeah, I'm afraid we have a lot of people in our midst who've. Who are, you know, fighting cancer, who beat cancer, who, you know, have you seen cancer? Have you seen it? It's worthy of being afraid. It's worthy of saying, I will do anything to not be in the shoes of someone who is suffering in that way. And that's not to take away or diminish anyone's experience with having fought and moved through and, you know, be in remission and all those things. But that's not what I saw in my mom's experience. And I was absolutely willing to, you know, I. There's a part of the book where I talk about taking that fear and using it gladiator style. You know, okay, I'm afraid, but I'm gonna rush straight at exactly what is making me fearful, and I'm going to take it down. And that's what I feel like I did in this case was I just listened and I said, yes, it's dramatic. It's absolutely dramatic. Yes, it's. It may feel like overkill to you. Yes. You know, and I just. I. I was with those questions, and I let people have their fear, and then I tried to step back out of it and say, but I'm okay with my decision. This is important to me and my surgeon. That is amazing. We were. During one of the sessions, they detail of my surgery was. I don't have. They took my nipples. I say they donated them to science because they were at cancer risk. So they recreate them with this cool skin sculpture stuff. It's amazing. They're miracle workers. And I was going through a tattooing, medical tattooing process, which took an extraordinary amount of time. It was like two hours long. So I had a lot of time to chat with him while he was doing doing it. And I said, you know, so many people. Because this is what he does. And I said, so many people came to me and said, this is such overkill for, you know, you didn't even have cancer. And he said, but look at what you were facing. And he said, you know, I said, most people said it was like killing a mosquito with a cannonball. And he said, but the mosquitoes dead, huh? And so it was just one of those moments where when and when he acknowledged that what that choice meant and what it means for all the people that he. All of his patients, it helped me feel, as you said, Lisa, that kindred spirit of like, you know what? Yeah, I'm on the other side of this. And however I chose to get here, I own it.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

When I was reading your book, I was struck by a quote that you put in here from William Blake. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to humanity as it is, infinite. And you go on to say, here we are on the 20th anniversary of the death of the transparent frontman of Nirvana, who said, wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person that you are. I think that when you talk about going through Your surgery, it really strikes me that you are owning your own self, your own body, and that if you were to listen to other people who said, oh, no, no, you don't need to have your breasts to remove because there is the possibility you will not have cancer, then you're really kind of giving some of your power over your body over to somebody else. And I think that we're in a day and age where that seems less reasonable, but it still doesn't mean that it's easy. So you've been a woman that for many years has been all about helping people feel comfortable with their own bodies through CrossFit, through your counseling practice. It's not easy. It's not easy for people to say, this is my body and this is how I feel about it, and this is the way that I would like it to be treated, and I will treat it myself. Did you have struggles with that yourself early on?

Krista Haapala:

I did. I did. It makes me think about being, you know, just thinking, reflecting on your experience, Lisa, being on the flip side of the experience of being a medical doctor and then having to move through a process as a patient and what that. That changing that frame of perception, if you will, what that. That can do. And part of my practice is helping folks around body image issues of all kinds. And certainly I'm right there as the number one cheerleader to say you need to make choices according to your truth. And oftentimes what I see see is people making choices and censoring their truth. And they still feel the dissonance that they feel that it's not going to go away until you're living your truth. And so, you know, my job is always to hold up the mirror and say, okay, well, you made this choice, and no judgment whatsoever, but how are you feeling about that? And what is. How is that manifesting in your life? And it tends to come around to that ultimate choice, whatever that is about their body, if it's their truth and they arrive there, then it's, wow, okay, this feels great. And I had to reflect on that in my own experience and all of the things that I thought I might be immune to because I had been for the last 10 years holding up the mirror for other people. You know, particularly around body image and being a woman and the consideration of having your breasts removed and reconstructed. In a way, you don't know what's going to happen. I mean, you can make some assumptions and you can find the right medical team, but you don't ultimately know what that result is, is going to Be. And particularly in my case, there are risks associated with. There may not have been a reconstruction if the first reconstruction didn't go well. And what would that mean then to move about the world? And there are many, many women who do it, who move about the world without breasts, and they find a way and they feel whole in their skin, hopefully. And I've been fortunate to work with women who, you know, in hindsight, they taught me. I. I reached back into my, you know, mind voice and. And was like, oh, yeah, these women are so strong. I'm gonna. I'm gonna hold on to their strength through this process. And I found I was having the same questions of body issues or of body image. I was having the same. Hearing those same voices, hearing that same. My term cultural coercion. Well, what do you look and feel like if you don't look and feel this way or how you used to look? And that's why body 2.0 came about. The term was like, okay, whatever body. What this was body 1.0. Whatever body 2.0 is, I'm gonna make it awesome, and I'm gonna love it, and I'm gonna be so grateful that I had this opportunity. Opportunity to create body 2.0. And so holding on to that as the vision, it was kind of like whatever issues I had, moving through, and I talk about a lot of them in the book in a very frank

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

way,

Krista Haapala:

I. I just let it come and I processed it as I experienced it and feel like I've almost sort of a little bit found my way to the other side.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Part of my experience with breast cancer was giving up parts of my body that had connected me so significantly with my children for so many years. And this enormous loss that I felt of connection, because obviously, my youngest is, you know, she's 15 and a half, so I have not used these to connect with my children in a long, long time.

Krista Haapala:

But they're still.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Unlike if I had skin cancer or lung cancer, these organs really have a significance beyond, to me, beyond what probably other body parts would have. So for me, it was even a morning of that part of my experience as a mother, which I know seems silly. And I would try to explain this to people, and they're like, it's just tissue. It's just fat. It's just glands. What difference does it.

Krista Haapala:

I'm like, well, I don't know.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I mean, it. It was a productive part of me that nourished my babies for such a long time. And. Or even if you don't breastfeed your Children. Let's just say even if your children just lay upon your breast, you are connected through this just part of your body. It's so integral to being female. And it's interesting that you wrote the poem before you even went through all of this experience.

Krista Haapala:

Yeah, yeah. That I just was. Thank you for giving voice to that. That's the one. You know, the poem, it does talk about that push, pull. And that is one thing that struck me very strongly too, was. And it actually even talking about it right now might make me a little emotional, but connecting to my boys in that way for as long as I did. And you know, I think I mentioned in body 2.0 about them being an overachieving, overachieving part of the anatomical team, you know, because they, I mean, they fed these, these beautiful humans and they're amazing. And now my almost really both of my sons are almost bigger than I am, and I'm gonna have two teenagers in a couple of days. And it's just amazing to me that I still can feel that strong pull. And that was one of the processes I went through before the surgery was just really the sacredness of that. Like, okay, you know, it's like, thank you. Like, thank you for this part. Having this body do these amazing things. And then when this surgery happens, that tissue does go away. And yes, on one hand we can say, you know, our vessel is our vessel. And truth be told, I felt fortunate that I had already had my children and I already had had the experience of breastfeeding both of my boys because it was truly sacred and a life changing experience for me. And there are women who don't have that choice who are making a choice of mastectomy before they have that opportunity. And that struck me like the gravity of all of that really struck me. But for me personally reflecting on that, I don't think it's silly at all. I think in fact, it's. It's the deepest, most connected we can feel with our body when, when we can acknowledge that. That truly. I mean, it's. It's kind to me. It's. Again, I go back to it being a miracle. It's a miracle that our body can do that and feed our children. It's a miracle our bodies can have parts the of. Of that our body removed and then it heals and we can watch it heal every day and, and we take that for granted.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

But it's.

Krista Haapala:

It's. It's truly a miracle. It's magic. And so I'm glad you gave voice to that because that was significant for me as well.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I encourage people to take the time to read body 2.0 and unlearn mind Food for Heretics. If what we're talking about resonates with you, because I think you don't have to be a breast cancer patient or potential breast cancer patient to have a lot of these themes be important, we will put Krista's website up on our Show Notes page. We've been speaking with Krista Hammerbacher Hapila who is the author of Body two Point and Unlearn Moderation. I really appreciate your coming in and taking this time with me today and having this wonderful conversation.

Krista Haapala:

Thanks Lisa. It was really a pleasure.

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You have been listening to Love Maine radio show number 260, Transformation of Self. Our guests have included Sid Bullens and Krista Hammmabacher Hoppola. For more information on our guests and extended interviews, visit lovemaenradio.com Love Maine Radio is downloadable for free on itunes. For a preview of each week's show, sign up for our E Newsletter and like our LoveMain Radio Facebook page, follow me on Twitter as DRLISA and see my running travel, food and wellness photos as bountiful1 on Instagram. We'd love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Love Maine Radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Transformation of Self show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.